Crush...Yiff...Destroy!

Iconoclastic · Vociferator Joined: 08 Mar 2005 Posts: 338

From the sound of it, one of Furry's most predominate personalities has left the fandom upon learning his pornography was being posted on the Internet. Given he has a real profession in animation and does childrens charity work under the banner of Furry, this was an obvious setback to his squeaky clean image. It's a lesson that's repeated time and time again: do not draw furry porn as it will always bite you in the ass later. It was a misjudgment of the nature of the Internet and furries themselves to expect these commissions to remain discrete.

Click for the burn!

creature · Vociferator Joined: 06 Nov 2003 Posts: 520

Honestly can't say I'm surprised. He's been trying very hard to keep his personal and business life seperate, but in the furry fandom if you are an artist that does anything but ultra-clean work you can't do that. Herbie is a good guy and has done a lot for various charities. But people will get a hold of it and post it. Note the whole Sibe/FursuitYiff shitstorm. I'm sorry, once something is posted on a website or even really scanned in someone is going to get a hold of it, someone you don't want to and they are going to post it everywhere.

Stoneth · Needs to get out more Joined: 01 Dec 2004 Posts: 1225

I've seen of a lot of people who try to keep their various lives seperate. Sometimes inventing new aliases to make general porn/copyrited character porn/cub art/babyfur art/whatever. The problem is that a lot of artists have distinct styles, mediums, motifs, and quirks when drawing. If you pay enough attention to these things, they become signature of the artist. TDK anyone?

Even if you're paid to do porn for someone or if it's just between your "friends" (a highly subjective term in the furry fandom) and you try to keep it secret, eventually others find out. The problem is that the furry fandom is a very knit together community. You spend enough time emmersed in it and you find out everything about everyone else, what they've drawn, when they got arrested and who they've had sex with. You think you're going to draw porn in the furry fandom and no one's going to find out about it? Think again. They'll know before you even click the send button.

Want to get a good name in the business? Don't draw furry porn.

mouse · Needs to get out more Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 1192

Click for the burn!

UGH! Fuckin GROSS!

Say it ain't so, Herbie !!! Say it ain't so !

I still like his art (NOT THIS PIECE), I bought his little paperback sketch portfolio book from SofaWolf Press a while back, but jeebus .. I thought he was an incorruptable beacon of sanity and talent within the madness of furry fandom. How foolish of me.

PS... why is everyone in the fucking fandom seemingly getting into the cubs all of a sudden??

AngryPuritan · Needs to get out more Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 1361

PS... why is everyone in the fucking fandom seemingly getting into the cubs all of a sudden??

The Jackson trial reminded them?

creature · Vociferator Joined: 06 Nov 2003 Posts: 520

PS... why is everyone in the fucking fandom seemingly getting into the cubs all of a sudden??

I've honestly been wondering that as well. Everytime I turn around someone new is getting into it. The only reason I can think a lot of artists are doing it is because it sells. I can understand being an artwhore. It's ok to make money. Hell, I'm a paycheck-whore and admit it.

mouse · Needs to get out more Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 1192

PS... why is everyone in the fucking fandom seemingly getting into the cubs all of a sudden??

I've honestly been wondering that as well. Everytime I turn around someone new is getting into it.

Well I had the misfortune of witnessing at least one scenario, via livejournal, where a guy went to some babyfurry party and the next day there was some subtle message to him in his journal along the lines of 'So, are you one of us now? wink wink' .. and all that.

ick.

The only reason I can think a lot of artists are doing it is because it sells. I can understand being an artwhore. It's ok to make money. Hell, I'm a paycheck-whore and admit it.

Oh yeah, obviously. I would even go as far to say that its not that big of a deal - this sort of thing in general. All the while tho, acknowledging that it is at least part of the problem. Either way, the questions I have with the specific pic there is.. AFAIK Herbie still works for Disney, or Im sure he has a damn decent income .. you'd think he wouldn't really be taking grotesque commissions like that, if not just because he wouldn't have to. Was it a commission or just something for a friend ? I mean theres a lot of circumstances that I don't know about.. but I really am not sure if I would be friends with someone who asked me to draw something like that. Thats not just babyfurries.. that image is really openly pedophilic, or at least thats how it comes across to me. Naturally thats pretty subjective .. but goddamn

Iconoclastic · Vociferator Joined: 08 Mar 2005 Posts: 338

that image is really openly pedophilic, or at least thats how it comes across to me. Naturally thats pretty subjective .. but goddamn

You know what would be said in defense of that: "The smaller one has a tail so that means it's a different species so it's OK!!!"

:x

Stoneth · Needs to get out more Joined: 01 Dec 2004 Posts: 1225

Well I had the misfortune of witnessing at least one scenario, via livejournal, where a guy went to some babyfurry party and the next day there was some subtle message to him in his journal along the lines of 'So, are you one of us now? wink wink' .. and all that.

ick.

that image is really openly pedophilic, or at least thats how it comes across to me. Naturally thats pretty subjective .. but goddamn

Subjective? Two bears. One obviously meant to be an adult while the other is obviously meant to be a child engaging in acts which causes both to come. I highly doubt one can take that in many other ways.

mouse · Needs to get out more Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 1192

that image is really openly pedophilic, or at least thats how it comes across to me. Naturally thats pretty subjective .. but goddamn

Subjective? Two bears. One obviously meant to be an adult while the other is obviously meant to be a child engaging in acts which causes both to come. I highly doubt one can take that in many other ways.

Hey, I was just trying to give it the maximum benefit of the doubt that I was physically capable of, while being pretty direct what I thought of it. :) It is obvious to anyone exactly what that picture represents

Tho I'd love to hear one of those around-the-world diatribes from an angry furry trying to explain it all away. In fact I even know that it would start with how 'the characters arn't humans' and would go from there.

Im sorry but anyone that actively seeks out that type of art, especially when its that blatant. whether its cartoons or animals or aliens or whatever..seriously needs to be kept away from kids. Im not saying thats the case with Herbie necessarily.. but that picture really raises some serious questions, unfortunately. Thats going on just that one picture... if theres more - like he's been drawing this shit all the time.. thats much worse.

Iconoclastic · Vociferator Joined: 08 Mar 2005 Posts: 338

Thats going on just that one picture... if theres more - like he's been drawing this shit all the time.. thats much worse.

Anyone with friend status on Sibe's journal knows: there's much, much more. Animations as well as pictures.

OMG Rankin! :wink:

edit: it's not all necessarily cub art. Although, it's really hard to tell sometimes.

creature · Vociferator Joined: 06 Nov 2003 Posts: 520

AFAIK Herbie still works for Disney, or Im sure he has a damn decent income .. you'd think he wouldn't really be taking grotesque commissions like that, if not just because he wouldn't have to.

No, and even then Disney doesn't pay worth shit for animators. As far as I know he no longer works for them, though. He works for a company an ex-house-of-mouse director setup.

Captain Cowgirl · Needs to get out more Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 1091

Talk about skeletons in the closet! =)
Or in Herbie's case, it's more like "small childlike genatalia in the closet"...

mouse · Needs to get out more Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 1192

edit: it's not all necessarily cub art. Although, it's really hard to tell sometimes.

Yeah .. probably just cause the 'cute' disney style he uses..

I mean if youre an artist you are probably inevitably going to draw stuff you wouldn't really want to show *everyone* .. thats normal for almost any artist, I'd imagine.. no big deal.

But I definatly think theres some stuff that should be left alone.. pornographic or sexualized art depicting kids is numero uno (or what can be reasonably construed as kids).. no one should try or even want to cater to that market...

No, and even then Disney doesn't pay worth shit for animators. As far as I know he no longer works for them, though. He works for a company an ex-house-of-mouse director setup.

Yeah I can see that.. since I've heard thru my job several times... Disney is shit when it comes to paying contractors. I wouldn't be surprised they were stingy with the employees as well... Go figure they get tax breaks and everything else. Smaller companies are usually better.. I worked for FleetBoston before they got bought by Bank of America.. I thought things would be much better - BAC having much more business and money and all... nope! Shift differential cuts, paycheck disparity all over the place. I make less after 5 years than a new-hire does.

so it goes..

(not that animation is half as glamourous as people want to make it out to be, apperently .. seems that most of that work goes to korean sweatshops nowadays. )

Captain Cowgirl · Needs to get out more Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 1091

edit: it's not all necessarily cub art. Although, it's really hard to tell sometimes.

Yeah .. probably just cause the 'cute' disney style he uses..

I mean if youre an artist you are probably inevitably going to draw stuff you wouldn't really want to show *everyone* .. thats normal for almost any artist, I'd imagine.. no big deal.

But I definatly think theres some stuff that should be left alone.. pornographic or sexualized art depicting kids is numero uno (or what can be reasonably construed as kids).. no one should try or even want to cater to that market...

No, and even then Disney doesn't pay worth shit for animators. As far as I know he no longer works for them, though. He works for a company an ex-house-of-mouse director setup.

Yeah I can see that.. since I've heard thru my job several times... Disney is shit when it comes to paying contractors. I wouldn't be surprised they were stingy with the employees as well... Go figure they get tax breaks and everything else. Smaller companies are usually better.. I worked for FleetBoston before they got bought by Bank of America.. I thought things would be much better - BAC having much more business and money and all... nope! Shift differential cuts, paycheck disparity all over the place. I make less after 5 years than a new-hire does.

so it goes..

(not that animation is half as glamourous as people want to make it out to be, apperently .. seems that most of that work goes to korean sweatshops nowadays. )

Exactly.
My dad used to work for Disney...but back then, the pay wasn't that bad.

mouse · Needs to get out more Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 1192

Exactly.
My dad used to work for Disney...but back then, the pay wasn't that bad.

I can imagine...

Its a race to the bottom nowadays, far as I can tell... for any field. When I was growing up through the 80s, my family, my extended family - all blue-collar union and/or military guys. You could get out of high school in the 70s and get a job, a really good job as a steel worker. More than enough pay to provide a fairly high quality of living for any family. Let alone specialized trades, like say animation.

Now its all gone, you have to fight tooth and nail for bullshit jobs in say, tele-marketing or collection agencies. IT and computer related jobs are in the toilet. I feel sorry for people paying big bucks to go to Bryant and Stratton, and DeVry institutes.

Barring any extraoridinary changes in this country, the 'American Dream' is definately dead. Ill be lucky to make even half what my dad makes in my lifetime.

Captain Cowgirl · Needs to get out more Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 1091

Exactly, Mouse. You hit the nail on the head there.
Plus, like mentioned before, all of today's animation is going overseas, and traditional animation is a dying art. It's not a good time for animators, or animation. They just layed a bunch of traditional artists off where my dad works, because they didn't feel they had the skill to move on to cgi.
Disney tried to revive the 2-D movement, with Brother Bear (which, in my opinion, was a farce), and Home on the Range, but pretty much failing miserably. It's all very sad.
I don't know what point I'm trying to make here, but it's great to find someone who actually knows what I'm talking about :wink:

mouse · Needs to get out more Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 1192

I don't know what point I'm trying to make here, but it's great to find someone who actually knows what I'm talking about :wink:

You would probably really appreciate this site, if you arn't already aware of it :

http://www.animationnation.com/

The articles are excellent and the whole site is basically about the state of the animation industry in the U.S. today.

Edit: Also I think Im becoming with cartoons the way I am with cars -- everything new is complete shit. CGI has its place, its hardly a replacement for anything. At best, just a different style.

Captain Cowgirl · Needs to get out more Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 1091

Thanks for the link! Definetly going on the ol' favorites list.
And yes...CGI just can't become 'the way of the future'. I mean, I'm getting sick of looking at cartoon characters with PORES.
(I'm talking to YOU, Shrek!)

Stoneth · Needs to get out more Joined: 01 Dec 2004 Posts: 1225

Is it too much to ask for a good theatrical release of a traditional animated film which isn't from Studio Ghibli (or *shudder* Klasky Csupo)? Mind you, I'm a fan of Miyazaki's works, but the fact that American is behind in the very field that it created and for the longest time dominated is rather sad.

Damn you, Disney and Dreamworks!

Anybody remember the brief time when local networks started premiering a whole bunch of primetime animted shows and all got cancelld? "Clerks", "The PJs", and does anyone remember "God, The Devil and Bob"?

baserock love · Vociferator Joined: 04 Dec 2004 Posts: 685

God the devil and bob was the biggest atrocity in the history of tv animated atrocities. It couldn't decide if it was heartwarming or funny, so it failed at both.

Pj's got what it deserved.

Never watched the clerks one but i saw parts, I'm really getting tired of the flat easy to animate Dexters laboratory esque cartoons that are all the rage now. It boggles my mind that these studios put all this money on the line when there isn't really a solid foundation/likeable characters to build on, then when the turd show flops, they think noone likes animation that's not the simpsons.

I give loonatics a month before it's remembered by nobody but the furries and it's characters grace only the fchan /m board.

Captain Cowgirl · Needs to get out more Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 1091

"The PJs"

DEAR GOD I HATED THAT SHOW.

weird_guy_in_the_corner · Vociferator Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 708

Disney sucks balls.

Goofy · Vociferator Joined: 18 Mar 2005 Posts: 311

The problem with most 3D animation is they make it too real, which ironically makes it look unrealistic. The key to making 3D animation believable is to incorperate the age old techniques of squash and stretch. Look at the characters of Pixar films: they might be cartoony, but they have more humanity in their appearance than something like, say, The Polar Express where the characters look like lifeless manniquins

Also I do not believe that animation studios like Disney should eschew traditional animation for 3D animation altogether. I doubt the medium makes a great deal of difference... It's more so what you do with the medium to tell a good story. The main reason why people go see Pixar films is because they're not only visually delightful but they also tell good stories that are accessible for kids and a treat for parents. It's the same reason why Miyazaki films are box office gold in Japan. Audiences want a treat.

Disney has been going downhill since The Lion King. They usually followed a story along the lines of: "brave hero archetype" meets "princess archetype" and together they must combat an "evil archetype". Along the way they sing a few Alan Menkin songs while some "comic relief archetype" makes jokes. They did this for The Little Mermaid, Beauty and The Beast, Aladin, The Lion King, Pocahontas, etc, etc. Then, it became too formulaic and people lost interest. Disney then began to lose sight of the things that old uncle Walt used to make his films so delightful.

I would blame Eisner, but everyone already does. It's old hat to blame him. Besides, he's on his way out with Robert Iger as his replacement.

However, what Disney needs is not 3D animation. It needs better writers. It needs to stop retelling stories like "The Little Mermaid" or "Aladin". Even the Lion King was (allegedly) a rip-off of Kimba The White Lion. In fact, if you want to really talk rip-off, take a look at this:

http://www.oldcrows.net/Atlantis/

Granted, same sources. But the visual interpretation is BEYOND similar!

And there are a heap of other examples from their other films of similar rip-offs.

Basically, Disney needs to get its shit together a do something that's actually original, like the way Pixar are doing. There's no imagination at Disney (the corperation) anymore.

However, I do have hope things might get better if placed back in proper hands. One of the greatest concepts that Walt Disney every devised was a short animated film co-developed with Salvador Dali. Work was started in 1946 and ceased several times until (way past the deaths of both Walt and Dali) Roy E. Disney restarted production on it a few years ago. It's was released in 2003 to great critical claim and scored an Oscar nomination. It has become a cornerstone in Roy E. Disney's Save Disney campaign (http://www.savedisney.com/news/se/destino.asp). I give credit where credit is due. Roy E. Disney is trying to give the world something original. The Disney Corp isn't even doing that.

However, the advantage of having such a low position is that the only way to go... is up.

Unless Disney goes bankrupt. In that case, to the poorhouse.

But if traditional 2D animation is dead, how come one of the highest-rating shows on prime time TV is 2D animated. The Simpsons. Let's not forget other successful shows like South Park, Family Guy, Futurama (which, I'm told, will be making a comeback in the form of a direct-to-DVD movie). Even a following for American Dad is starting to pick-up.

In fact, in the case of Family Guy: it was cancelled and Fox decided to bring it back due to the high volume of DVD sales for series one and two. People still like 2d animation. What Disney doesn't realise is that they have to give us (kids, teens, adults, whatever) something better than the crap they've been producing. "Start with better scripts" is my first recommendation.

Anyway, that's my rant. Peace out.

Captain Cowgirl · Needs to get out more Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 1091

The problem with most 3D animation is they make it too real, which in turn makes it look unrealistic. The key to making 3D animation believable is to incorperate the age old techniques of squash and stretch. Look at the characters of Pixar films: they're cartoony, but they have more humanity than something like, say, The Polar Express where the characters look like lifeless manniquins

Yes!!!!! EXACTLY!!!!
Which is one of the things that made 'The Incredibles' great. And speak of photo-realistic CGI...if the animators feel that they can tell a story with incredibly realstic characters, why not use live-action? That's what kept me from seeing 'Final Fantasy'...I don't care how good it was, I don't want to see animated people with excruciatingly detailed features. It just creeps me out.

baserock love · Vociferator Joined: 04 Dec 2004 Posts: 685

It's so bizarre, how the whole trying to make it real makes it look fake thing works. If you rotoscope a live actor doing something, and create a cell animation out of it (like bakshis lord of the rings :x ), it simply doesn't look right, and nobodies ever figured out quite why.

In order for a rotoscope to look proper, and not stiff and robotic animators have to go in and add squash and stretch and alter the rotoscoped animation to make it look convicing. You would think that you can't improve on live actors, but in order for it to even be presentable, it has to be altered.

Like for instance if you film a live actor simply walking accross a room rotoscoped, you have to add a little bit of stretch to the feet moving at the fastest point of its arc in the cycle, and when the foot impacts the ground you need to add a little bit of squash the 1 or 2 frames after impact. It just makes it look more lively and lifelike.

Pikachang · Qualificator Joined: 10 May 2005 Posts: 18

It must be the uncanny valley.

Common Zebra · Qualificator Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 3

AFAIK Herbie still works for Disney, or Im sure he has a damn decent income .. you'd think he wouldn't really be taking grotesque commissions like that, if not just because he wouldn't have to. Was it a commission or just something for a friend ?

I think you're searching too hard for an answer. Why would a high-profile, well-paid Disney artist risk his professional reputation and endanger his children's charity work by drawing something closely bordering on child pornography? The most logical assumption is because he can't help himself; he gets off on it.

He may be a very nice guy, but the amount of this kind of furry porn he's produced and the time period over which he's been doing so suggest it was not done as a lark or the odd commission to make an extra buck. And would someone seriously chance the repercussions of having work of this nature surface as merely a favor for a friend? Under almost every conceivable normal circumstance that "friend" would become an ex-friend for even asking for such a piece of art unless the artist himself had an interest in drawing it.

It seems like the only surprise in this drama is that it's taken so long to come to light. How did he make this supposed announcement of abandoning furry fandom anyway? Or is this just word of mouth?

Iconoclastic · Vociferator Joined: 08 Mar 2005 Posts: 338

It seems like the only surprise in this drama is that it's taken so long to come to light. How did he make this supposed announcement of abandoning furry fandom anyway? Or is this just word of mouth?

It was word of mouth, but all his websites, galleries and livejournal have been purged so I assume it to be true.

Common Zebra · Qualificator Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 3

It was word of mouth, but all his websites, galleries and livejournal have been purged so I assume it to be true.

One of his websites is still around:

www.lonsmart.com

The first image in the "TOONS" section which proclaims "This page is safe for ALL ages" is grimly amusing in light of the art that has recently surfaced.

A number of images signed with his "Herbie" sobriquet are there as well a link to the Funday Pawpet show.

A casual search also reveals at least one LiveJournal of his still in existance, if not active. It contains a somewhat cryptic message, I presume referring to the porn-revelation incident:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/herbiehamill/

Not questioning your info, just observing that not all tracks have been erased. Perhaps he'll resurface under a new, less-tainted moniker? I seem to recall he swore off fandom several years ago for reasons unknown only to return again with the renewed fervor of the Prodigal Son, repenting for having ever gone astray. Perhaps he's the Michael Corleone of furrydom: "Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!"

Donotsue · Needs to get out more Joined: 17 Jan 2004 Posts: 884

Herbie Bearclaw.... Hm, this time ah have no idea who he is...
Guess I must STFI...
But hey ya guys ... I might get to droo Donald Duck euro-comics...
Wonder if my past prevents me doing so... =)

Stoneth · Needs to get out more Joined: 01 Dec 2004 Posts: 1225

Herbie Bearclaw.... Hm, this time ah have no idea who he is...
Guess I must STFI...
But hey ya guys ... I might get to droo Donald Duck euro-comics...
Wonder if my past prevents me doing so... =)

Not unless you plan on drawing like this. NSFW.

Captain Cowgirl · Needs to get out more Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 1091

Wait a minute...
I didn't even know ducks had penises???
I also didn't know EWS gave awards?
http://www.jabarchives.com/joerandel/P19.htm
NOT WORK SAFE.
AT ALL.

Paul · Needs to get out more Joined: 01 Feb 2004 Posts: 1092

Wait a minute...
I didn't even know ducks had penises???
I also didn't know EWS gave awards?
http://www.jabarchives.com/joerandel/P19.htm
NOT WORK SAFE.
AT ALL.

Oh Jesus Christ. Joe Randel. The only guy to outdo TDK in spoogy copyright violation tentacle rape.

EDIT: ... at least that I know of. If I'm wrong, please don't post the evidence.

Iconoclastic · Vociferator Joined: 08 Mar 2005 Posts: 338

Herbie Bearclaw.... Hm, this time ah have no idea who he is...
Guess I must STFI...
But hey ya guys ... I might get to droo Donald Duck euro-comics...
Wonder if my past prevents me doing so... =)

If they start asking around we'll deny everything :wink:

RailFoxen · Vociferator Joined: 01 Jan 2005 Posts: 625

Ah, Donald Duck in adult situations.

m_estrugo · Vociferator Joined: 13 Nov 2003 Posts: 534

Wait a minute...
I didn't even know ducks had penises???

Yey, they do.
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/enviro/EnviroRepublish_366856.htm
Prolly work safe, but equally disgusting.

Dr. Dos · Vociferator Joined: 11 Oct 2004 Posts: 718

I got confused with Daffy.

Captain Cowgirl · Needs to get out more Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 1091

DUCK DICKS. EVERYWHERE.

Goofy · Vociferator Joined: 18 Mar 2005 Posts: 311

Wait a minute...
I didn't even know ducks had penises???
I also didn't know EWS gave awards?
http://www.jabarchives.com/joerandel/P19.htm
NOT WORK SAFE.
AT ALL.

A lot of drawing and research went into this pic

Researching tentacle rape? Oh, how I laughed!

Dipshit.

Captain Cowgirl · Needs to get out more Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 1091

He had to make sure the vaginal fluid was *Just so*.

baserock love · Vociferator Joined: 04 Dec 2004 Posts: 685

And yet he still fucked it up. If i was fucking a girl and her vaginal fluid was opaque white, i would run my ass to the free clinic asap.

I wonder if he'll ever put the tdk award on a resume?

Paul · Needs to get out more Joined: 01 Feb 2004 Posts: 1092

He had to make sure the vaginal fluid was *Just so*.

"Just so" being the wrong colour and 50 times the amount. :wink:

What could he have researched? TDK pics?

(Actually I think the fluid is supposed to originate from the tentacles, seeing as it's in the girls' mouths as well, but OTOH it's not something I want to think about too much. Urk.)

Stoneth · Needs to get out more Joined: 01 Dec 2004 Posts: 1225

He had to make sure the vaginal fluid was *Just so*.

"Just so" being the wrong colour and 50 times the amount. :wink:

What could he have researched? TDK pics?

You know what? Maybe it's just supposed to be marshmallow fluff.

Paul · Needs to get out more Joined: 01 Feb 2004 Posts: 1092

He had to make sure the vaginal fluid was *Just so*.

"Just so" being the wrong colour and 50 times the amount. :wink:

What could he have researched? TDK pics?

You know what? Maybe it's just supposed to be marshmallow fluff.

Somehow, that just makes it even more perverted.

Simba · Qualificator Joined: 17 Sep 2004 Posts: 7

Has anyone considered that this is just your standard furry "macro" pic? (Yes, that's what it is) Granted, it's the lesser of two evils, but at least it's not pedophilia.

Captain Cowgirl · Needs to get out more Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 1091

Has anyone considered that this is just your standard furry "macro" pic? (Yes, that's what it is) Granted, it's the lesser of two evils, but at least it's not pedophilia.

Judging by the anatomy of the smaller bear, it does look like macro art...if it was a cub, he'd probably have a bigger head and paws...guessing that Herbie's been working with Disney on their furry woodland creature movies.

Common Zebra · Qualificator Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 3

Has anyone considered that this is just your standard furry "macro" pic? (Yes, that's what it is) Granted, it's the lesser of two evils, but at least it's not pedophilia.

Given the stated location of your profile, it probably wouldn't be going out on a limb to say you know Herbie/Lon personally.

His reputation as a clean artist was widely publicized by his friends and supporters to the extent that many pointed to him when they wanted to prove that furry fandom isn't all about porn. Now that mask has been ripped away, there must be two camps among those who know him: those who never knew his dirty little secret and feel savagely burned that they defended him so ardently -- and those who knew all along and helped him cover it up. Which group do you belong to?

Considering the name of the file in question, someone sure thought the character depicted was a "cub." Whether that was the artist's original title for it is probably something we'll never know. If, however, what we're seeing here is merely the tip of the iceberg, then as his other porn begins to surface we'll see whether there's a pattern of young-looking characters depicted having sex. I guess we'll also know to what extent you're playing his spin-doctor.

Simba · Qualificator Joined: 17 Sep 2004 Posts: 7

Given the stated location of your profile, it probably wouldn't be going out on a limb to say you know Herbie/Lon personally.

That is correct. I've known him for about seven years now.

His reputation as a clean artist was widely publicized by his friends and supporters to the extent that many pointed to him when they wanted to prove that furry fandom isn't all about porn.

I neither have said in the past nor never will I say that Herbie hasn't drawn porn. I won't say that he or the fandumb is "all about porn", either. I will say that this particular piece has been misconstrued as something that he is vehemently against.

Now that mask has been ripped away, there must be two camps among those who know him: those who never knew his dirty little secret and feel savagely burned that they defended him so ardently -- and those who knew all along and helped him cover it up. Which group do you belong to?

I belong to the "don't ask, don't tell" camp. I knew that he occasionally showed that he had a hormone or two in a drawing here and there, but unless specifically asked, point blank, I never said a word about it. Why? It's nobody's business. I've never had to lie for him, though.

Considering the name of the file in question, someone sure thought the character depicted was a "cub." Whether that was the artist's original title for it is probably something we'll never know.

Even if he was the one to actually have scanned this piece and given it a filename, I can say, without any doubt, that "cub" was not in the filename. I'm fairly certain that this was his first attempt at "macro art", and the concept had to be explained to him, by the person for which he was drawing, in order for him to have even drawn it. "Two characters, one big, one small." "Okay, whatever floats your boat, dude."

And would someone seriously chance the repercussions of having work of this nature surface as merely a favor for a friend?

I love him dearly as a friend, but somewhat gullible and trusting he can be. I, at least, find the trusting part to be one of his better personality traits. He's been burned so much as of late, though, that his trust level has diminished greatly. To answer your question: Yes, he would chance the repercussions as a favor to a friend since that's exactly what happened.

Under almost every conceivable normal circumstance that "friend" would become an ex-friend for even asking for such a piece of art unless the artist himself had an interest in drawing it.

The extent at which Herbie bends over backwards for his friends is only truly understood by his friends. If a close friend asked him to draw something of a particular subject matter, he'd usually draw it, aside from a few taboo subjects, like snuff, and pedophilia. The only thing he'd ask for, in return, would be that they not show it to anyone.

If, however, what we're seeing here is merely the tip of the iceberg, then as his other porn begins to surface we'll see whether there's a pattern of young-looking characters depicted having sex. I guess we'll also know to what extent you're playing his spin-doctor.

Definitely.

baserock love · Vociferator Joined: 04 Dec 2004 Posts: 685

"His reputation as a clean artist was widely publicized by his friends and supporters to the extent that many pointed to him when they wanted to prove that furry fandom isn't all about porn"

wtf? there's at least 2 or 3 bearclaw porn threads a month at onechan. I just assumed he did strictly porn. At least you can tell that he doesn't spend much time on his porn. If he's a disney animator(noticed the blue pencil) I bet one of the drawings takes him ten minutes to do.

Tailgunner · Vociferator Joined: 28 Oct 2003 Posts: 327

You know what? I have to admit, this one is clever.

Out of all the CRAP that forms the interweb, that one pic made me laugh.

Captain Cowgirl · Needs to get out more Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 1091

You know what? I have to admit, this one is clever.

Out of all the CRAP that forms the interweb, that one pic made me laugh.

Yeah, me too. But somehow I doubt that was the desired effect of the artist.

Zod God · Prattler Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 105

I dont know of anyone who thinks differently, but I found Joe Randel to be a very likeable individual who doesnt take himself or his art 100% seriously.

Captain Cowgirl · Needs to get out more Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 1091

I dont know of anyone who thinks differently, but I found Joe Randel to be a very likeable individual who doesnt take himself or his art 100% seriously.

Can you ask him why his renderings of vaginal lubricant look like cottage cheese?

Zod God · Prattler Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 105

Maybe it IS cottage cheese. :3

Tailgunner · Vociferator Joined: 28 Oct 2003 Posts: 327

Or just "cheese" in general!

>:}

Tass · Prattler Joined: 05 Mar 2005 Posts: 178

Maybe it IS cottage cheese. :3

Well that probably turns SOMEONE on...

Zod God · Prattler Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 105

I'm sure that theres a "Foodie" group out there someplace.

Tass · Prattler Joined: 05 Mar 2005 Posts: 178

I'm sure that theres a "Foodie" group out there someplace.

Well ACTUALLY...

It's right around...

http://www.geocities.com/faust_the_dr/yourhere.gif

On the fetish map, it really depends on what you mean by "Food".

Dr. Dos · Vociferator Joined: 11 Oct 2004 Posts: 718

Stoneth · Needs to get out more Joined: 01 Dec 2004 Posts: 1225

And now just what is wrong with having a simple interest in anthropomorphic food?

Stoneth <3 Purple Pussy.

Zod God · Prattler Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 105

Tis foodsecution I says.