Crush...Yiff...Destroy!

Goofy · Vociferator Joined: 18 Mar 2005 Posts: 311

Yeah, I know. It's tautological to say 'Bad' Furry Stories. But what are your nominations for worst furry ficiton?

My first pick would have to be Gary Akins Jr's opus The Bath, which is a smut story (surprise surprise) about a female furry and a male human (if I recall correctly) having a bath together. The reason why I think this is the worst story ever is after the bath (and this is going by memory) they watch some video together of their favourite shows. And their favourite shows? Rescue Rangers, Tailspin, and Star Trek to name a few. It's perhaps the most pathetic thing you'll ever read in a work of fiction. It makes me break down and cry. I wish I could find a link to the story, but the only link that seems to exist on the internet is broken.

http://www.fanarchive.net/miavir/stories/akins_garyjr..html

Dagnabbit. If anyone has a copy of it, post it here so people can see how awful it is. Also try and find his epic Weekend at Kellys. A badly-written sex story that keeps on going and going and going...

Second place goes to Allan D. Burrows' What Bunnies Are For. This is basically a furry fan's set dream. Awkward male protagonist. Cute bunny morphs that want to hump. Futuristic society. Triumph against TEH FURSECUTION. Once again, can't find the story anywhere. If someone has it, upload it to share its awfulness with the world.

Mitch · Vociferator Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 658

Christopher Bair has got to be worth a mention in this regard. He's an egotistical guy specializing in lizardmen and God knows what all else, who also runs Planet Fur and famously tried to organize a furry portal - the Furnpike.

Oh yes, and he also does commissions!:

One-character changing with teen-based themes, $75. One-character changing with adult-based themes, $150. Two characters changing with teen-based themes, $175. Two characters changing with adult-based themes, $300.

Fetish-based stories, just add $50 to the price.

At last! You can actually OWN a story in which YOU are lewdly assaulted by gay alligators called Trevor & Geoff!

Goofy · Vociferator Joined: 18 Mar 2005 Posts: 311

Now THAT blows my mind... paying a guy to write retarded sex stories where I'M the star. That is, without a doubt, the ultimate in hack writing.

I don't know who's worse: Bair or the idiots who pay him.

Foxid · Venter Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 298

I've always had a bit of an issue with the idea of a writer doing commissions. I don't know about any other writers on the forum, but the what, when, and how much of my own writing is incredibly unpredictable. Additionally, leaving oneself open to whatever subject matter a potential customer might want just seems like a bad idea. (I know this from personal experience. x.x)

As far as horrible furry stories go, I recall coming across some incredibly bizarre and disturbing slash fiction involving pretty much EVERY major male anthro Disney character from Mickey to whatever the newest character at the time was (the 'copyright' date on the story was 1997 IIRC), with inflation and vore thrown in for good measure. If the subject matter wasn't so psyche-scarring, it'd make a great replacement for 'Eye of Argon' as "Really stupid story to try reading without laughing."

I don't read much 'furry literature' as a general rule, but if you're looking for something guaranteed to be absolutely horrid, just look for the magical word "Furotica".

Ruphia · Qualificator Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 24

Just about anything written by Swamprat or Afril whatever that fellow is calling himself these days. Almost every story boils down to, "There were two (three, eight...) guys, and they were doing something somewhere. Then they had grungy man sex the end."

http://furry.de/miavir/stories/swamprat.html

NSFW, or sanity.

Dr. Mojo · Vociferator Joined: 19 Feb 2005 Posts: 399

Now THAT blows my mind... paying a guy to write retarded sex stories where I'M the star. That is, without a doubt, the ultimate in hack writing.

I don't know who's worse: Bair or the idiots who pay him.

It's like those videos you can buy for your children where THEY become the star! Just send in a name, photograph and $239.99 for services!

RailFoxen · Vociferator Joined: 01 Jan 2005 Posts: 625

There is reserved a special place in Hell for those who post Tapestries logs as actual stories. There's a growing number of 'em - some are edited enough to not stand out, but the POV switches with every paragraph.

Whatever you aren't looking for, Yiffstar has it. The fetish list reads like a bulleted index of the DSM-IV.

CrazyBomber · Prattler Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Posts: 137

How bad is this story?

I would like to hear your opinions, please.

Dr. Mojo · Vociferator Joined: 19 Feb 2005 Posts: 399

It's not furry, but it's just as bad.

Gay vampire Lord of the Rings Hobbit slash fanfiction.

Dr. Dos · Vociferator Joined: 11 Oct 2004 Posts: 718

How bad is this story?

I would like to hear your opinions, please.

I didn't bother reading, but I did notice they said Dog damn it instead of God damn it. VERY CLEVER MR. FURRY.

Barry Scott · Prattler Joined: 09 May 2005 Posts: 152

Reading anything by David Gonterman is an almost guaranteed brain haemorrhage. You're brain might cause itself a stroke just to make the pain stop, so I'd read his works with caution.

(Can't seem to find the link at the moment. Ah well.)

Troggler · Venter Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 246

Here's the biggest collection of his stories.

Furries, racism and disturbing fetishes abound!

CLINTON JOBS FOR EVERYONE!

The New Meat · Needs to get out more Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 933

At last! You can actually OWN a story in which YOU are lewdly assaulted by gay alligators called Trevor & Geoff!

The story of my life:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

Barry Scott · Prattler Joined: 09 May 2005 Posts: 152

Here's the biggest collection of his stories.

Furries, racism and disturbing fetishes abound!

CLINTON JOBS FOR EVERYONE!

Yep, that's the place I was thinking about! Nice one! :D

Captain Cowgirl · Needs to get out more Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 1091

http://yiffstar.com
Geez.

The New Meat · Needs to get out more Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 933

Here's the biggest collection of his stories.

Furries, racism and disturbing fetishes abound!

CLINTON JOBS FOR EVERYONE!

I don't care what you say, Gonterman is king!

Actually, he's a right upstanding fellow now, surprisingly. I just commissioned him.

SkunkDogFromSpace · Venter Joined: 05 Jun 2005 Posts: 222

What puzzels me most is this:

"Nibble on your ear, rub your furry rear" - GayFur slogan!

what the... ?

Also this must be the stupidest line in a story:

Wee! This is my lucky day. If I convince this asshole to take me to San Diego, I can go to hide in Mexico and the story ends happily”, thought Fitz.

"thought Fitz"???
Isn't that supposed to be some sort of serious kill-rob-stab story? And the killer is thinking "Wee"???
My choises for lines would've been something like;
"If i convince this asshole to take me to San Diego, I can go to hide in Mexico and the story ends happily.. for me.." he thought while his victim had no clue about Fitz's thoughts and was falling for his trap.
Or something like that.. >_<

Oh my Dog, you are gay!

:lol: ??

M0us3_Zero · Vociferator Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 437

Gonterman... no list of "BAD FANFICS" can go without saying that name.

The self-insertions alone are worth the lulz.

5thehardway · Prattler Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 161

At last! You can actually OWN a story in which YOU are lewdly assaulted by gay alligators called Trevor & Geoff!

The story of my life :(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

*snigger*

And I cannot wait to see that Gonterman commission.

The New Meat · Needs to get out more Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 933

Nor can I. If he would friggin' hurry up!:)

Fugitive · Qualificator Joined: 25 Apr 2004 Posts: 6

The Bath

What Bunnies Are For, in umpteen zillion parts I'm not going to bother ordering properly.

Ah, Usenet...

Goofy · Vociferator Joined: 18 Mar 2005 Posts: 311

Thank you, Fugitive!

Here was the part of the story that I mentioned:

Finally, it was cooled off enough to eat, and we each took a
generous portion before returning to the living room to eat. This
is definitely a "fork" pizza.... there's no way it could support
its own weight if you tried to pick up anything larger than a
bite-sized square of it. Gary rewound the tape in the VCR, and we
ate pizza and watched "TaleSpin" and "Tiny Toon Adventures".

After we were done eating, Gary put our dishes in the sink,
wrapped the leftover pizza, and put it in the fridge. Then we
snuggled together again, still in front of the TV, watching
"Quantum Leap" (don't get the idea we spend lots of time watching
TV though; there's only about 5 shows we make it a point never to
miss. Those three, plus "Star Trek" and now that new "Flash"
series.

We interrupt this sex story to give you... NERD HEAVEN!

AnotherFuckingFurry · Qualificator Joined: 30 Jul 2005 Posts: 11

If you seriously want to have your eyes pulled out of your skull by crappy stories, go to YiffStar.

They're all either multi-chapter "epics" about some crap having to do with sci-fi and random fucking, or they're horridly written wank-offs.

Way to perpetuate the stereotypes, furries. =/

Captain Cowgirl · Needs to get out more Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 1091

If you seriously want to have your eyes pulled out of your skull by crappy stories, go to YiffStar.

They're all either multi-chapter "epics" about some crap having to do with sci-fi and random fucking, or they're horridly written wank-offs.

Way to perpetuate the stereotypes, furries. =/

I don't know, I found the Bonkers erotica to be an insightful social commentary.

baserock love · Vociferator Joined: 04 Dec 2004 Posts: 685

I can barely drag myself to read these forums i hate furry so much, theres no way i'm losing 25 minutes of my life to read Bonkers porn. Thanks for taking the bullet for me and telling me what it felt like fellaz :D

AngryPuritan · Needs to get out more Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 1361

I think the 'worst' furry fiction depends on how you define 'worst'. If you want to laugh at poorly written yank-fests, read YiffStar. You can find any 13-year-old's poorly worded and hyperactive fetish in literary form there.

If you want to see really depressing furry fiction, you have to find a person like some mentioned here. Those who have obvious skills at literature, but whose ego has been inflated by a million fetishers giving them praise and who will never write anything BUT furry fiction for it. The better their writing skills, the sadder it gets.

Foxid · Venter Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 298

This kinda makes me wonder what there's more of out there; horrible furry -art- or horrible furry -writing-.

As far as being on the internets where people can see and laugh at it, writing probably far exceeds art. I'm sure every furry wot considers themselves a 'writer' has tried drawing at least once, but was (thankfully) too embarassed at their lack of talent to try posting anything online. Conversely, literature seems to have no internal censorship; no little voice in the brain that says, "Don't post that, it's shit!"

IMO, the number of honestly great (publishable) writers is about the same as the number of really good (profitable) artists in the fandom. The net effect of this, however, is that since horrid writing seems to far outweigh horrid art, finding a decent writer is exponentially more difficult than finding a decent artist. Add to that the fact that furry is, if nothing else, a visually-driven fandom, being a good writer isn't likely to get you any higher in the Furry Hierarchy.

That's kinda sad, at least to me. Furry smut is all well and good for a wank, but beyond that, what's the point? I enjoy reading an interesting and well-written piece of literature - not necessarily 'furry' literature, by any means, though some of the most memorable things I read when I was but a wee youngin' featured animals with human intelligence (Watership Down, The Fabulous Mr. Fox, etc). I'd place the value of a good book far above the value of a piece of visual art; drawings and paintings and even comics require little to no imagination on the part of the viewer. And if I'm going on a long car trip, or going to be stuck on a long flight...hell, if it's a quiet day at work...the value of literature over visual art becomes even more obvious.

At one point in my life, I thought it would've been great to have a literary sister site to Yerf. A site devoted to quality anthro-based writings, with a rather strict admittancy policy, and a moderation team keep it from turning into a literary cesspool like Yiffstar. But I've come to realize since then that, even if such a site DID exist, who would go there? Why bother devoting more than a few minutes of time to get your "furry fix" from a fiction site when you can do the same in just a few seconds on one of the countless art archives? B'sides, I don't think anyone could truly pull off anything remotely like Yerf anymore - the word 'no' is taboo in furry fandom.

(And if there had ever been a writing equivalent of Yerf, its admin might've never heard of backups either.)

Dr. Dos · Vociferator Joined: 11 Oct 2004 Posts: 718

The closest thing I've seen to a good writer involved with the furry fandom was Bookshire. This was in 1995 when i was 7 and reading his Sonic fanfiction.

A few years ago on a nostalgia trip I wanted to see if it was still around. It wasn't. But his stories about Tails getting a blowjob from Sally sure were :(

God knows what I'd be like if I found that when I was 7.

AnotherFuckingFurry · Qualificator Joined: 30 Jul 2005 Posts: 11

I have to say that Redwall is certainly one of the defining pieces of actual anthro literature that contains no yiff or other mind-fucking fetishes, and I grew up reading that like a sci-fi nerd reads Asimov.

However, I bet that someone's fucked it up by writting some sort of wankery involving the charecters. I seriously don't have the balls to look it up, so I'll leave that one to the rest of you. =/

Dr. Dos · Vociferator Joined: 11 Oct 2004 Posts: 718

you obviously haven't been around furries long if you have to ask if there's redwall porn or not

Troggler · Venter Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 246

If you're looking for badly written stories, fanfiction.net has redwall as a category, and Watership Down. Chances are some one has done an AU where all the redwall characters are wacky highschool characters with wacky afterschool problems and wacky yaoi relationships. In fact, I'd count on it. Somewhere, some author WILL NOT REST until he has made High School AUs or gay porn of every single book, movie and game ever.

And what the heck happened to Bookshire, anyway? I heard that he burnt out on the internet, retreated to his lair, became a transvestite, and started posting his hidden stash of porn online. Or something.

Computolio · Needs to get out more Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 865

I have to say that Redwall is certainly one of the defining pieces of actual anthro literature that contains no yiff or other mind-fucking fetishes, and I grew up reading that like a sci-fi nerd reads Asimov.

However, I bet that someone's fucked it up by writting some sort of wankery involving the charecters. I seriously don't have the balls to look it up, so I'll leave that one to the rest of you. =/

call redwall anthro literature again and brian jaques will fucking punch your genitals off

and then have ANOTHER stroke

Paul · Needs to get out more Joined: 01 Feb 2004 Posts: 1092

I think the 'worst' furry fiction depends on how you define 'worst'. If you want to laugh at poorly written yank-fests, read YiffStar. You can find any 13-year-old's poorly worded and hyperactive fetish in literary form there.

If you want to see really depressing furry fiction, you have to find a person like some mentioned here. Those who have obvious skills at literature, but whose ego has been inflated by a million fetishers giving them praise and who will never write anything BUT furry fiction for it. The better their writing skills, the sadder it gets.

I agree; if some teenager spends his spare time writing crappy wank material, that's no loss. But it's slightly sad to see genuine writing or drawing talent get pissed away on fanservicing crap.

I have to say that Redwall is certainly one of the defining pieces of actual anthro literature that contains no yiff or other mind-fucking fetishes, and I grew up reading that like a sci-fi nerd reads Asimov.

Redwall has nothing to do with furrydumb (except it's read by many furries), so of course there aren't any fetishes.

What do you mean by "actual anthro literature"?

CI · Apocrisiary Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 50

Well... it uses anthropomorphic characters.

Also, the anthropomorphism has little effect on the stories, except to define some stereotypes; and the characters are after more in life than continual blowjobs.

Still, in my opinion, furries are the only group I'd inflict Redwall on.

baserock love · Vociferator Joined: 04 Dec 2004 Posts: 685

I loved redwall as a kid. It's too bad it's the posterchild for furry-ization, some things should be sacred.

I still can't believe they got Metroid :cry: :cry:

Monkey King · Vociferator Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 459

I still can't believe they got Metroid :cry: :cry:

Damn my curiosity for all eternity, but I have to know. How in the world could you get anything furry out of Metroid? Do they make it into some sort of bizarre variant of vore?

baserock love · Vociferator Joined: 04 Dec 2004 Posts: 685

I still can't believe they got Metroid :cry: :cry:

Damn my curiosity for all eternity, but I have to know. How in the world could you get anything furry out of Metroid? Do they make it into some sort of bizarre variant of vore?

Acctually it was a flash game where you could inflate a furryized riddleys wang to the size of a mini cooper. And there was some other shit you could do with kraids wang i think, it had the music and the voice acting from super metroid and everything. It was truly horrifying. I know somebody here has a link

Barry Scott · Prattler Joined: 09 May 2005 Posts: 152

Acctually it was a flash game where you could inflate a furryized riddleys wang to the size of a mini cooper. And there was some other shit you could do with kraids wang i think, it had the music and the voice acting from super metroid and everything. It was truly horrifying. I know somebody here has a link

Oooh I saw that! It's on Sheezy Art... oh wait. Oh well it'll be on Fur Aff... er, nevermind.

AngryPuritan · Needs to get out more Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 1361

Somewhere, some author WILL NOT REST until he has made High School AUs or gay porn of every single book, movie and game ever.

If people need licenses to drive cars, why not also to use keyboards? That seems to be the weak link in the chain, eh?

Paul, I'm glad we agree now. Such as I think this author (NSFW) has good potential, especially in recent works, but will likely never write anything but fetish works... Others I can point to are better authors, but will refuse to write anything but furry works. Cliches kill authors, and furry is the biggest of them all...

Also, metroid spoof is on the same network of sites, here, really NSFW.

Seph likes being weird. So you all pointing and saying he ruins metroid will likely lead him to do more.

AnotherFuckingFurry · Qualificator Joined: 30 Jul 2005 Posts: 11

I have to say that Redwall is certainly one of the defining pieces of actual anthro literature that contains no yiff or other mind-fucking fetishes, and I grew up reading that like a sci-fi nerd reads Asimov.

However, I bet that someone's fucked it up by writting some sort of wankery involving the charecters. I seriously don't have the balls to look it up, so I'll leave that one to the rest of you. =/

call redwall anthro literature again and brian jaques will fucking punch your genitals off

and then have ANOTHER stroke

"Anthro" meaning, animals that have human traits, which is it's original meaning. Before the furry fuckery got to it.

Not animals that have 5 foot cocks, or some crap.

itsthesheppy · Qualificator Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posts: 29

I feel bad for Redwall's author. Imagine the questions he must get at Cons. ::shudder::

Sixtail · Coadjutor Joined: 30 Aug 2004 Posts: 93

I feel bad for Redwall's author. Imagine the questions he must get at Cons. ::shudder::

Furrywise, Redwall is pretty tame. There's smut, but not most of it, the writen smut is pretty meh (Yiffstar has it) and most of the Redwall mucks or at least the few i've been on forbid sex and boot you if you do it.

I'd ask him why otters, mice and rabbits are allways good, but for once, the roles aren't changed.

The Redwall books are good, but after the first four books, it's the same thing.
with only the "THEY ARE VERMIN" label as a reason the bad guys keep rising up, killing a few good guys, creating a huge army no one can count, then losing at the hands of a pissed off badger, otter or mouse. And none of them ever seem to have heard of the other 20 warlords, thugs, etc who lose the secound they try to take over a Abby or a big old hill ran by a badger.

Captain Cowgirl · Needs to get out more Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 1091

I feel bad for Redwall's author. Imagine the questions he must get at Cons. ::shudder::

Furrywise, Redwall is pretty tame. There's smut, but not most of it, the writen smut is pretty meh (Yiffstar has it) and most of the Redwall mucks or at least the few i've been on forbid sex and boot you if you do it.

I'd ask him why otters, mice and rabbits are allways good, but for once, the roles aren't changed.

The Redwall books are good, but after the first four books, it's the same thing.
with only the "THEY ARE VERMIN" label as a reason the bad guys keep rising up, killing a few good guys, creating a huge army no one can count, then losing at the hands of a pissed off badger, otter or mouse. And none of them ever seem to have heard of the other 20 warlords, thugs, etc who lose the secound they try to take over a Abby or a big old hill ran by a badger.

Something marginally interesting I've been wondering...
When it comes to Furry smut-fanfic, what fanbase would you say is covered the most? Watership Down? Rescue Rangers?

AlbinoHagfish · Prattler Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 199

When it comes to Furry smut-fanfic, what fanbase would you say is covered the most? Watership Down? Rescue Rangers?

I wish they'd leave Watership Down alone. Redwall wasn't that great to me, I always HATED Rescue Rangers, but Watership Down is total childhood rape. I named two of the rabbits I've had over the years after their characters. Watership Down wasn't exactly cute and cuddly, and I liked it for the lack of Bambification.
The idea of Watership Down porn...eew. Just, eew. I do know some furry rabbits are totally obsessed with it, and make pilgramages to Watership Down. I've spoken with one or two. It never occurred to me to ask how far exactly they took it, thank god.

Captain Cowgirl · Needs to get out more Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 1091

When it comes to Furry smut-fanfic, what fanbase would you say is covered the most? Watership Down? Rescue Rangers?

I always HATED Rescue Rangers,

Haha, I know, right? Gadget is obnoxious as hell.
Damn mouse.

Goofy · Vociferator Joined: 18 Mar 2005 Posts: 311

Foxglove gave me the shits too. Plus, if you've never read that horrible Rescue Rangers fanfic where Foxglove and Dale get married, your life is better than mine.

Captain Cowgirl · Needs to get out more Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 1091

Foxglove gave me the shits too. Plus, if you've never read that horrible Rescue Rangers fanfic where Foxglove and Dale get married, your life is better than mine.

I read some of it.
I can't understand the fixation on a character from ONE episode.
I mean, sure, it's ok to LIKE a character from one episode, and build a site about her, I guess...but this guy made a POE-featured site about the damn bat that took me about 2 hours to look through.
Good lord.

RailFoxen · Vociferator Joined: 01 Jan 2005 Posts: 625

There's gotta be some kind of sick fascination with perverting popular children's characters. They are simply not attractive by any objective measure. Shallow personalities mated to simple disproportionate forms, easy to animate and easy to script. Rough stereotypical archetypes. Nothing is there. To love them, you either need to lose grasp with reality and cling to your childhood, or be out to pervert the things you liked as a kid.

If 'purple skunk w/French accent' describes the entire character, it hardly matters if she's 12 or 21 - that's just pathetic. Could at least obsess over something with some depth and definition, you know? Same goes for 'original' creations - woo, she's like Scarlet O'Hara only she's a complete nymphomaniac and she's a vixen named Vixen... uh... Vixina!

Goofy · Vociferator Joined: 18 Mar 2005 Posts: 311

My pop psychological take on it is that when we have unresolved sexual issues (or even just unresolved love issues) as kids, we tend to retreat into fantasy. The sexualisation of cartoon characters acts as a manifestation of such fantasies -- especially since children enoy cartoons (in many ways, they 'trust' cartoons). Without actually resolving the issue, the subject continues to grow with this need to sexualise whatever stimuli from their childhood. Rather than resolving or accepting the difficulty of the childhood and then moving on, they find comfort in whatever they've sexualised. Therefore, their sexuality becomes stagnant and they appear to have difficulty when distinguishing reality from fantasy.

Paul · Needs to get out more Joined: 01 Feb 2004 Posts: 1092

There's gotta be some kind of sick fascination with perverting popular children's characters. They are simply not attractive by any objective measure. Shallow personalities mated to simple disproportionate forms, easy to animate and easy to script. Rough stereotypical archetypes. Nothing is there. To love them, you either need to lose grasp with reality and cling to your childhood, or be out to pervert the things you liked as a kid.

The thing with "empty" characters like that is precisely that you can read yourself into them and easily identify with them. Works fine for children and children's characters. As the audience gets older, they start to appreciate more rounded, complex fictional characters because these are closer to how real people are, and so on. It just goes horribly wrong when some adult pervert reads his desire for love, affection and steamy hot furry sexxors into an "empty" children's character.

Also, what Goofy said.

Captain Cowgirl · Needs to get out more Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 1091

There's gotta be some kind of sick fascination with perverting popular children's characters. They are simply not attractive by any objective measure. Shallow personalities mated to simple disproportionate forms, easy to animate and easy to script. Rough stereotypical archetypes. Nothing is there. To love them, you either need to lose grasp with reality and cling to your childhood, or be out to pervert the things you liked as a kid.

The thing with "empty" characters like that is precisely that you can read yourself into them and easily identify with them. Works fine for children and children's characters. As the audience gets older, they start to appreciate more rounded, complex fictional characters because these are closer to how real people are, and so on. It just goes horribly wrong when some adult pervert reads his desire for love, affection and steamy hot furry sexxors into an "empty" children's character.

Also, what Goofy said.

There's definetley that, Paul. I have no problem admitting, throughout my childhood/teen years/now I've had crushes on animated characters...the thing about Children's character's and the 'empty-ness' is you pretty much have free reign as to what they would do, in fanart, and fanfic. Like, Gadget, for example "mouse who invents stuff". They leave it pretty much open to the pornsters. They can make her invent sex toys in their fanart/fiction...
I don't know how to explain it, but hopefully y'all get the picture, kinda. :?

BeanBall · Apocrisiary Joined: 09 Feb 2005 Posts: 45

I think part of the issue here is not wanting to give up being a child and the whole childs way of thinking (although, I could also say teenager way, so to be safe, let's just say up to the end of high school ways of thinking). However as we get older and puberty inevitably hits, hormones 'activate' and such, a whole new way of thinking comes arround.

I think what we might be seeing here is an attempt to hold onto ones childhood, or to put it another way 'I don't wana grow up!'. It may be as another user has stated, an unresolved issue from a person's childhood causing them to hang onto it. I think the exact reason is diffrent for everyone.

Perhaps these characters are sort of (to them at least) the last vistage of their childhood. Maybe they do these things to them so they can have them doing adult things but without any of the responsiblities or consiquences of such actions. Sort of the idea of being adult but without being an adult. If that sounds strange think of it as "There's being an adult and then there's being an adult".

I also tend to agree with the empty character kind of thing, but I think it's a combination of that and my theory above.

Osfer · Rasophore Joined: 08 Aug 2005 Posts: 56

First off: this isn't me hating. Okay? Cool.

One of the awesome things about entering the furry fandom is that it's full of people who are lamer, less talented and less interested than you are -- and aren't ashamed to show it, and have communities and people who like them. That's an ego boost, if ever there was one.
Then there's alsoTwo things can happen in one's headbrains whene exposed to this -- one can compare onself to the lame figures and find onself infinitely more valuable, and gain self-respect, or one can enmesh oneself in a community of such folk. Both will probably solve your inadequacy issues, if you had any -- although only one option should really be applauded.

Bad furry drawings still garner "OMG WOWZ" and numerous fanbrawls at the late FA and future ART PLZ (love the title) and bad furry writings are still read by those who troll Yiffstar and excite one or two people enough to cause positive response.

Is this digusting and pathetic?

Yes and hell no!

As with everything in the world, there's an 80/20 rule in furry creativity. 80 per cent of furry expressions, be they art or writing or, I don't know, puppetry, whatever, is other crap. The other 20 per cent cnan be rated on a 1-10 scale of excellence.
The more crap writing is out there, the more writing is out there and therefore the more good writing that can potentially emerge. With every crappy "sonic the hedgehog with cocks instead of quills" story out there, one or two very promising young minds grow a little more disgusted and think "I can do better than this" a few more times a week, and finally they may write something. And they may write something mediocre, but mediocre is still better than bad.
Then again, they may write something good -- it's out there, folks. Even on Yiffstar! Stories with -- sure, they have sex, but also (be still, my beating heart) such heresies as plot and realistic dialogue and believable characters.

The more crap emerges, the harder it'll be to find the good stuff. But there will likely be more good stuff to find.

baserock love · Vociferator Joined: 04 Dec 2004 Posts: 685

but also (be still, my beating heart) such heresies as plot and realistic dialogue and believable characters.

I could see how people would look for that in a furry porn story. I've never read an erotic story but as far as videos go, keep it short and sweet, i want to be in and out ya know? I hate porn that tries to inject something other than porn into itself. I mean, in a story i could see how some of that stuff would be required to make the characters seem "more real", in a video they are real so it's kinda a moot point. I would attempt to read a good furry porn story but i don't really want to wade through mountains of crappy prose to find one story, and then not get off on that story.

Monkey King · Vociferator Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 459

First, I'd put it at more of a 90/10 split, if even that much. That's how it tends to break down in the regular world. There might even be less decent furry stuff than 10%, since in the fandom you've got more talentless amateurs than normal being brave enough to show off their crayon doodles.

Second, God damn you for putting that image in my head. I don't doubt for a second that someone has written a "Sonic with cocks for quills" story, but I was happier not knowing about it.

Thirdly, I've encountered some genuinely good writing on Yiffstar, which is what makes it all so tragic. Yes, eventually someone will get disgusted with the crap and decide to do it better themselves, and thus another talented writer blooms. The problem is that they take their writing talent and use it to write smutty Shirtales fanfiction.

You've got all these people who could make a real living with their writing, and they're squandering it on furry wank material, and that's really tragic. It's one thing to do this stuff on the side for your own amusement, and then throw it out for other people to look at too. The problem is the few who are any good never moving on past Yiffstar.

Osfer · Rasophore Joined: 08 Aug 2005 Posts: 56

Porn is sex fiction, and as you say, that's gotta get you off, in and out, short and sweet. There's also such a thing as sex in fiction. Sex, like any other experience, can be used for dramatic effect -- drama in the literary, dramaturgical sense as opposed to OMG TEH DRAMA.

Getting shot in the leg, coming out as gay, doing drugs, having sex, accidentally breaking somebody's neck during rough-house, falling in love or getting chased by a Demon Beast, all of them are experiences that can shape a story. Sometimes you choose to write a story with a lot of scary -- it becomes horror. Sometimes you write a story with laser guns -- it becomes sci-fi. And sometimes the characters just happen to have sex a lot, and that becomes erotica.

Hell, Clive Barker's books can often be found in the Erotica section of bookstores, and I can't recall, off the top of my head, a sex scene in his horror books that was actually arousing :)

EDIT (taking your advice, Monkey :)

I came to the same conclusion a few months ago, Monkey. There was nothing out there to motivate furry writers to do anything but hash out porn for Yiffstar because there wasn't any non-porn alternative to YS. So I invested some money and time and built a project that, to avoid being called a plugger, I won't name. And sure, while the first issue and probably the second issue are largely erotic (I gotta sell this stuff, after all) it's intended to ease both writers and readers out of the idea that porn is the be-all and end-all of furry fiction. And hopefully to inspire those precious talents out there to try writing something intelligent and interesting in hopes of making the grade for the next issue of Teh Nameless Project.

baserock love · Vociferator Joined: 04 Dec 2004 Posts: 685

It's like the scene were hally berry finally gets naked in Monsters Ball. It was sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo less hot than i anticipated.

AngryPuritan · Needs to get out more Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 1361

Getting shot in the leg, coming out as gay, doing drugs, having sex, accidentally breaking somebody's neck during rough-house, falling in love or getting chased by a Demon Beast, all of them are experiences that can shape a story. Sometimes you choose to write a story with a lot of scary -- it becomes horror. Sometimes you write a story with laser guns -- it becomes sci-fi. And sometimes the characters just happen to have sex a lot, and that becomes erotica.

Sometimes, you choose to write a story with a lot of furries in it -- it becomes cliche.

I came to the same conclusion a few months ago, Monkey. There was nothing out there to motivate furry writers to do anything but hash out porn for Yiffstar because there wasn't any non-porn alternative to YS. So I invested some money and time and built a project that, to avoid being called a plugger, I won't name. And sure, while the first issue and probably the second issue are largely erotic (I gotta sell this stuff, after all) it's intended to ease both writers and readers out of the idea that porn is the be-all and end-all of furry fiction. And hopefully to inspire those precious talents out there to try writing something intelligent and interesting in hopes of making the grade for the next issue of Teh Nameless Project.

Ah, the philosophy behind FANG. Sorry to save everyone here the google search, and to shatter your secretive mystique, but you are talking about FANG, no?

I have to say that I really respect you, Osfer, but I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Firstly, you admit that you have to sell it, thusly your first two issues are erotica, the first specifically being homoerotica. Now, as typical dumbass furry consumer, after I buy two issues of smut (albeit well written smut) won't I expect that of all issues. Secondly, you specifically make it a book with no indication on the cover as to the contents, save for the word 'FANG'. Does this, at all, help the fact that many furries don't give a shit about anthropomorphic animals at all, and are only in the fandom because they get off on being in a subculture? Won't that reflect in the consumers and writers for your project then?

I really think you can't trick the few talented furry writters into getting weened off writing porn anymore than you can trick the furry masses into reading something that isn't porn. I completely respect you for Maranatha, and the way you managed to force feed many a plot while keeping them occupied with cocks and butts. However, even the few I showed that to...

It's not the first step in weening them off furry porn stories, it's just another excuse for keeping them reading furry porn stories. The answer isn't to get furry fiction respectable and de-pornized, it's to simply get promising furry authors to write stories without furries.

After all, you can't write a furry (not anthro, mind you, I will never consider 'Animal Farm' furry) story that either:

A - Is childish, or seems it because the characters are talking animals.
B - Could work just as well with humans instead of animals, because you're avoiding tying what they are to the plot.

OR

C- Comes off as pretentious because you DO tie what they are to the plot, and you get an Island of Doctor Moreau clone with the themes of "What is human?" and such.

Osfer, I respect you as an author, but you cannot shape this fandom and it's members like you can a setting and a plot in one of your stories.

Osfer · Rasophore Joined: 08 Aug 2005 Posts: 56

Maybe not, but there's no harm in trying.

I completely understand where you're coming from (and am rather flattered that you know my work). I've had the same thoughts myself.
A lot of your questions can be answered by restructuring some of the points you raise. Furrydom is a subculture. Writers, or I should say good writers in this subculture are underappreciated and undermotivated to produce quality works. FANG, therefore, is about quality writing first and foremost, and aimed at the furry community.
Take my situation -- and excuse my egomania. Between my command of the English language, basic reasoning skills, focus and creativity, I'm easily one of the top fifty amateur furry writers out there. Maybe top twenty. Out in Teh Real World, I'm one of, say, five thousand people in the English-speaking world who are as inventive and hardworking as I am. Probably more of them.
Like I said in another post -- if somebody else had started something like FANG I'd have submitted for it, because it would have given me an attainable goal within the community that so comforted me when I was but a frail young lad.

It's a daunting task, trying to make it as a writer in Teh Real World. Talent alone won't get you the distance, nor hard work. For every Stephen King and Neal Stephenson there's twenty guys just as talented and just as interesting who had the misfortune of having a bad agent, a few poor contracts, or whose manuscripts were received by editors who were having marriage problems -- or just read a King manuscript.

Getting into FANG isn't easy. I've made the authors work hard to improve their work and I've been honest when I thought it wasn't good enough. This trend will continue, as FANG moves out of erotica, which will be around the end of October, with the release of a horror-themed issue fo Halloween.
Incidentally, there's no doubt a bunch ofpeople who'll buy an issue or two and then turn their backs in disgust at the fact that there's no more porn. Somehow, I think I can live with that -- and hopefully there's a few folks out there who'll pick up a next issue without juices and see some more actual talent on display.
As for the authors, going through the gruelling and potentially ego-shattering process of submitting their work to FANG and making the grade, that's an ego-boost right there.

Two authors who've been accepted for FANG's first issue have informed me that the experience prompted them to suck it up and submit some non-furry works to actual, real-world publications and try to make a break for it.

I call that progress.

I humbly propose, Puritan, that I can "shape this fandom and its members". Obviously, not a lot, and not all of it. And maybe I'm wrong and you're right, and I'll have wasted some money and some time, but hey :)

RailFoxen · Vociferator Joined: 01 Jan 2005 Posts: 625

Whereas I'd like to see good stories that simply aren't porn.

And aside from some scattered material on VCL and the mostly-broken Miavir, there aren't any hosts that list much anthro stuff of the non-wank variety. Particularly good stuff. Oh, sometimes the non-sex is so much more horrifying than the sex. Porn writes itself. Terrible plots take effort, and that's scary. Scary like obsessing-over-cartoon-characters scary. There's bad OMG MY EYES, and there's bad OMG MY BRAIN. The brain stuff taking totally serious effort and obession...

Yah, furries aren't here for the anthros alone. If they were there'd be more novels and fewer one-shot two-page chunks of jerk material. Those who can't respect the fandom for anything more than orgasms aren't going to care for it at all when you take their naughty material away. (Osfer, y'might consider slipping the good clean stories in with the porn, if you're intent on giving it to the masses... if your first clean book doesn't tank in sales, well, let me know and I'll be surprised.)

Osfer · Rasophore Joined: 08 Aug 2005 Posts: 56

(Osfer, y'might consider slipping the good clean stories in with the porn, if you're intent on giving it to the masses... if your first clean book doesn't tank in sales, well, let me know and I'll be surprised.)

The first issue has a few pensive articles, but on the whole I'll stick with the themes. You buy a porn issue, you get prn. You buy a horror issue, you get horror. And as for tanking... I'm not expecting FANG to be huge, so I doubt a decline n sales from one issue to the next would be even statistically relevant.

Let's get back to the topic, though, and why FANG's relevant -- I made the mistake of outwardly plugging once, not gonna do that again unless it's called for.
My first thought was to create a moderated on-line archive or an e-zine like Claw and Quill, but I dscarded both those ideas. Writers want to post where their stories are most read -- i.e. Yiffstar and VCL. Anthroarchives is an example of a supposedly moderated story repository,b ut they're lucky if they get one submission a month and the homepage hasn't been updated in so long that I seriously doubt there's any moderation going on. Even if such a place were to be successful it'd be immensely cliquish, like PureYiff, and there'd b so much flaming and whining about policies that it'd simply get tiresome. In the e-zine front Claw and Quill sort of died.

A publication's different. Saying "here's a book with quality furry stories in genre, selected by the editor on the basis of their quality and his discretion" tends not to invite the questioning of policy, because it isn't the Internet and it therefore isn't subjet to the All Things Digital Should Be Free precept.

I'd be all for an archive that hosted non-wank material, especially if it was as well-visited and reasonably well-integrated (possibly even more so) as Yiffstar's code. Hell, I'd start it myself if I didn't have so much on my plate already.

AngryPuritan · Needs to get out more Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 1361

I understand what you're trying to do, and how important it is for you... I don't want to be the naysayer here, and I think I came off wrong.

On a strictly author by author basis, not a fandom-wide one (I think we both agree it should be taken as such) yes, the few shining stars should get rewarded, and encouraged to expand.

The issue, is you want them to expand in the fandom, I would like to see them expand past the fandom. To take it from a different perspective... A star trek slash fiction writter who has real talent should attempt other things, but why should she still have her works in the Star Trek universe?

I think, even if an author will never 'make it' (IE, get published) in the real world, that doesn't mean they can't post a story to their own webpage, or dA or whatnot. Making publishing the only goal (even if you weed out poor authors and force better ones to imporve like FANG will, or Sofawolf should) is wrong. This is the information age, if you want to be heard, all you need is a Google hit. Yes, those other 9 Stephen Kings won't be able to buy a Porshe from their masterpieces, but does that still mean they cannot share it?

I don't think you're helping the problem. It's like you brought a first aid kit to the end of the world.

Osfer · Rasophore Joined: 08 Aug 2005 Posts: 56

Hey, where good writers take their talents is up to them. It's not my responsibility to guide them out into the real world, and I'm certainly not trying to trap them in furrydom. There absolutely isn't anything to stop writers whose work is good enough for FANG to start writing regular fiction. One author, who will likely be submitting a peice for the halloween issue, already has several published mainstream horror novels, and still he choses to cater to the furdom, too.