Crush...Yiff...Destroy!

MonicaKitty · Vociferator Joined: 24 Feb 2005 Posts: 450

First, let me say, this site has been...disturbingly educational. I never realized how thoroughly creepy some furries could be. I suppose I simply lumped every furry in with Otaku, Trekkies, and the like- A harmless passion for geeky people. I never realized it could be literal passion...ugh. I've seen things here that I'm afraid I cannot now unsee. Thanks, by the way. =)

Anyway, the reason I decided to post is that I noticed a lot of references on this site to "alternative lifestyles" contributing to the downfall of classic furrydom. It's totally possible that I'm reading too much into things, and please tell me if that's the case, but this seems a little unfair to Gay, Lesbian, and Transgendered people. The consensus seems to be that people it was Mark Merlino's homosexuality that was the lynch-pin for the sexualizing of the genre. Further, it seems his opening Confurance 8 to "alternate-lifestyle venues" that was the straw that broke the camels back...and then proceeded to fuck its brains out.

To me, it all seems to say "The gays did it!". I know plenty of gay men and women, and none of them are slavering sex fiends in leather. Rather than look at this jerk as a homosexual who corrupted furry, I think a better distinction is that he's a stupid pervert asshole who let his fantasies get the better of...well, everything. I know it seems a narrow distinction, but he could have easily been a stupid heterosexual pervert...the sexual identity isn't so much the issue as the mindset. And the alternate-lifestyles that took over furry were not homosexuals, but rather the dark side of ALL human sexuality- BDSM, rape-play, and stuff far grosser than that. Again, the perversion and not the person.

I'm sorry if it all seems oversensitive. I've probably spent too much time at Portal of Evil where everything is either "gay" or a "fag". Either way, I'm happy to hear other people's thoughts. Oh well, that's my two cents. =) Thanks!

SquareMoogle · Venter Joined: 16 Dec 2004 Posts: 238

Nobody thinks "TEH GAY" ruined the fandumb. Quite the opposite actually, the fandumb has, through its immense fucked-up-ness, tainted everything remotely linked to it. Furry and its dominant freaks are slowly rotting part of the general perspective on gays, waving their dicks at the camera as ZenZhu put it in some thread. They also (obviously) ruined mainstream cartoons, perverting everything they touch. Gay != perverted; the long-dead term 'furvert' == perverted. As we all know, perversion kinda swarmed over everything, so they won the term "furry." I would ideally like to call myself a furry, but it's all too fucked up for me, so until the day the perverts die (see: never) I'll just be an anthropamorphics fan.

* != means "Is not."

Mitch · Vociferator Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 473

Rather than look at this jerk as a homosexual who corrupted furry, I think a better distinction is that he's a stupid pervert asshole who let his fantasies get the better of...well, everything. I know it seems a narrow distinction, but he could have easily been a stupid heterosexual pervert...the sexual identity isn't so much the issue as the mindset. And the alternate-lifestyles that took over furry were not homosexuals, but rather the dark side of ALL human sexuality- BDSM, rape-play, and stuff far grosser than that. Again, the perversion and not the person.

Yes, I'd agree with that.

Kadius · Vociferator Joined: 10 Feb 2004 Posts: 637

In my opinion, the moment all the weird shit in the fandom came to the surface is when most of the normal people left. Leaving it full of people who're freaks. Somehow "Don't say anything about how what someone does is sick or wrong" became the unwritten rule. And if you went against it... oh boy.

Now this brings me to my second thought. If 'furry' is full of freaks, what's the draw to normal people? ...Not much. The ratio of men to women is out of balance, so this leads to the whole 'prison gay' scenario. As in "I like women, but I'll settle for a man. Because I'm desperate and sex is sex." THAT, in my opinion is why furry is loaded with gay men. The themesong of this post is 'Ramble on' by Led Zeppelin.

MonicaKitty · Vociferator Joined: 24 Feb 2005 Posts: 450

I agree that there seems to have been this sudden-onset stupidity that said "Oh! Everyone has to be friends here! Don't say anything bad about the fucktards who have sex with animals!" I mean, what kind of insane sense of social justice is this? I just find it painfully sad that so much creativity and joy and years spent building a fandom absolutely crumbled in within a few years of people sewing stratigically placed...ahem, access hatches into mascot uniforms.

Dr. Mojo · Prattler Joined: 19 Feb 2005 Posts: 180

I think the whole furry escapade, like the whole Catholic priest thing, teaches us that nearly anyone can be perverted, and most people are.

The New Meat · Vociferator Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 660

I like your John Ashcroft costume:)

He looks like a skeksis.

ZenZhu · TOP POSTER! Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 1510

To me, it all seems to say "The gays did it!". I know plenty of gay men and women, and none of them are slavering sex fiends in leather.

If you had stuck by this, I'd have said you missed the boat to Cluemerica.. but, fortunately, you hit the mark with the next few lines.

Rather than look at this jerk as a homosexual who corrupted furry, I think a better distinction is that he's a stupid pervert asshole who let his fantasies get the better of...well, everything. I know it seems a narrow distinction, but he could have easily been a stupid heterosexual pervert...the sexual identity isn't so much the issue as the mindset. And the alternate-lifestyles that took over furry were not homosexuals, but rather the dark side of ALL human sexuality- BDSM, rape-play, and stuff far grosser than that. Again, the perversion and not the person.

Actually, it's not a narrow disctinction at all. Merlino just happened to be gay, but that's beside the point. Unfortunately, he also happened to be a slavering perversion-addict with the motive and means to bend furry to his will. Not to say he was the only reason furrydom is what it is today. But he was a big cog in the wheel. If many furries weren't so apathetically accepting of any and all behaviors for fear their own might come under scrutiny and regulation, folks like Merlino couldn't have turned furrydom into a sexfest.

When Merlino opened the doors to the "alternative lifestyle" crowd, he didn't just roll out the welcome mat for the homosexual crowd, but also the fetishists.... the people who, gay or straight, just can't seem to go 5 seconds without putting their personal perversions on parade... the people who don't understand that pretty much anything that goes on between two consenting adults in private is fine, but it doesn't need to be made public.

Unfortunately, many of these people crave external validation. It's not enough for these kinds to have people quietly accept that they have different sexual interests.... these kinds of people need others to pat them on the head and tell them they're not a bad person for liking to dress up in their girlfriend's panties and sniff her shoes. Basically, they have these sexual interests, but are not comfortable enough with themselves and their kinks to be content to simply enjoy them in private. They need people to tell them it's okay.

Regarding the issue of gays and furrydom, it's not their presence itself that puts a skew on the public image of furrydom as it is the presence of a few of them that have this whole "furry pride" mentality. IMO.. and many other people's... liking cartoon animals and being gay do not go hand in hand. They can be mutually compatible.. in that there's really nothing noteworthy about a gay person that likes cartoon animals any more than a straight person that likes cartoon animals. But, you have those gay furry lifestylers and such that intentionally blur the line between the two.

I guess in a way it's unsurprising. Gays are persecuted. Furries feel persecuted. If you're both, it's a double-dip of persecution. So, if a person feels the need to assert their status and interests, I guess they might just lump them all together. Still.... if you state you're gay and proud at the appropriate times, you're just asserting you're security in your sexuality. If you state that you're furry and proud, you're asserting your interest in something that is misunderstood by those you're asserting it to. But when you assert you're furry, gay, and proud in the same breath, it just generates a kind of WTF response.

It's like asserting you're proud of your Hispanic roots AND you like chocolate cupcakes. People stop and scratch their heads wondering why you lumped those two things together.

The furry perverts.. gay or "straight".. also put a bad face on furrydom AND homosexuality in one strike. The furries into diapers, scat, watersports, foot fetishes, BDSM, hooking their nipples to a car battery.. what the heck ever.. are going to be pretty happy to find anyone that shares their.. we'll say "unique" interests to be diplomatic. A fuy into feet might prefer women in real life, but is so desperate to feed his fetish that he'll play gay scenes online. Furry characters also contribute to this in that it's very easy to draw a furry character that is predominantly feminine in appearance, but is technically male. Take Terrie Smith's Chester Ringtail, for example. The character is, for all intents and purposes, a female slut that happens to have a wang. The character even looks mostly female, except for the plumbing.

So, it's easy to use furry characters to blur the line between the genders... thusly making it easier for someone who is primarily straight offline to play a flaming queen online for the mere sake of finding someone who will RP something they want to wank to. Go on furry IRC channels and strike up a coversation about this, and you will find many "gay" furries are only gay online, and maybe experimental offline.. but are not really gay. They probably fall in that gray "bi-curious" area.

In a way, I don't think this is such a bad thing. If you look at online adult chat areas, you actually find a number of guys that willingly jack off with other guys. Offline, however, they might vehemently deny it. While the online world of adult chat and erotica has its share of potentially severe problems, it also has some benefits. If people can go online and experience this mental interaction with others of the same gender, it can potentially lead to them being a bit more understanding of those who are bi or gay all of the time.. not merely in masturbatory fantasies. It kind of offers a very shallow chance to "walk a mile in their moccasins." I think this has the potential to promote tolerance of bi and gay people.

The RP-gay furries, however, push the bounds of this to the point I would almost think it would be insulting to homosexuals. They go online, RP it up like an anthropomorphic vacuum cleaner at a dick-sucking contest, and generally play make-believe at being gay for the sake of finding a wank partner. They reduce the hardships many gay people face to little more than character stats as if it were some cock-waving version of D&D.

This is compounded by the fact that many furries are simply so hard-up for sex that they will fuck anything. For these types, it's not even a matter of being straight, bi, or gay as it is being completely nondiscretionary for any opportunity to have an orgasm. Technically, I guess that'd make them bi, but they're primarily not interested in the gender of the other person so much as they're interested in their own pleasure.

You notice, too, there are very few lesbian furries online. I think this is partly because most players are male. It's easier to play at being gay.. because male sex and genitalia is what they know. Since it's all online, and there's no real dick-dueling going on, they're really just indulging an exhibitionist streak... wanking with someone knowing they're wanking... and they can be looking at pictures of Anna Nichole Smith (before she became a spambeast) or female furries and mentally reinvisioning the RP scene with a female character. For them to play a lesbian, however, enhances the chanced of the male players getting caught in a lie. If the other player doesn't care what gender the person playing with them is.. it doesn't really matter. But if they happen across one of the few females trolling for yiff, they can get busted and have wasted an hour chatting the person up.

These furries paint a bad face on furrydom just as any online pervert paints a bad face on the Internet. If these people didn't happen to be furries, they'd still be doing the same thing. The only difference is that instead of setting up rendezvous in hotels at furry conventions, they'd be on one of the thousands of adult chat rooms private-messaging each other with "A/S/L?" in the hopes of finding someone close enough away that they can drive an hour to Boston or Chicago or San Francisco or whatever... French Lick, Indiana... for a bootie call.

Well, I've run out of steam on that. You're right, though, it's not homosexuals that have adversely affected furrydom's image... it's the furries that are total sexual gluttons and deviants that crave public attention for their kinks. The fact that many of the "gay" furries are really only play-acting at it when they draw clydesdales with raging erections or RP an all-male hyena gangbang not only hurts furries, it hurts the homosexual community as well.

It's the furries that, for one reason or another, cannot content themselves to enjoy their private pleasures in private, and refuse to moderate access to adult material that hurt furrydom's image.

AngryPuritan · Vociferator Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 399

In a way, I don't think this is such a bad thing. If you look at online adult chat areas, you actually find a number of guys that willingly jack off with other guys. Offline, however, they might vehemently deny it. While the online world of adult chat and erotica has its share of potentially severe problems, it also has some benefits. If people can go online and experience this mental interaction with others of the same gender, it can potentially lead to them being a bit more understanding of those who are bi or gay all of the time.. not merely in masturbatory fantasies. It kind of offers a very shallow chance to "walk a mile in their moccasins." I think this has the potential to promote tolerance of bi and gay people.

I have to strongly disagree with you there. While a very select few might not be quite dense enough to come off with such a feeling... I honestly think most of these closet queens who RP a lion boy or wank to beefcake art are just as likely, nay MORE likely to be insecure asshats about it, and activley persecute real day-in day-out homosexuals themselves.

I wouldn't be suprised if the next time you hear about some redneck beating a gay, the authorities find some male on male dragons on his PC or something.

ZenZhu · TOP POSTER! Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 1510

I have to strongly disagree with you there. While a very select few might not be quite dense enough to come off with such a feeling... I honestly think most of these closet queens who RP a lion boy or wank to beefcake art are just as likely, nay MORE likely to be insecure asshats about it, and activley persecute real day-in day-out homosexuals themselves.

I wouldn't be suprised if the next time you hear about some redneck beating a gay, the authorities find some male on male dragons on his PC or something.

There's definitely that side to it as well. That's one reason I said it had the potential rather than it was likely to do so. I think there's the opportunity there for people to explore their curiosities in a safe fashion and gain a bit of insight. But, I agree that it is more likely that they'll jack off while being fucked up the ass by Lindz or Silfur online... then go beat the crap out of some gay person as a means of venting their frustration with themselves.

Stoneth · Vociferator Joined: 01 Dec 2004 Posts: 545

I was going to add something meaningful to this conversation, but I think ZenZhu touched on just about everything I could have possibly said.

IMO, I think part of the main problem with furrydom happens to be the fact that no kink is too taboo to be kept within the privacy of people's own sick, sad homes. If you had a fetish for being urinated on, I could care less because any rational human being would know to keep such items away from the public. Because unless you happen to be a porn star, what goes on between you and another adult in your bedroom is supposed to stay in there. This I think is one of the main problems with furrydom.

Mundane: So what are you doing this weekend?
Furry: Oh, I'm attending the furry convention.
Mundane: Furry? What is that?
Furry: Well, you have strategically-placed holes and plushies and people in diapers and...
Mundane: The fuck?
Furry: OMG, Fursecution!

That and the whole "furry pride" thing is just plain stupid to me. People flaunt it like it's their family herritage or something!

Oh and Dr. Mojo, I like your avatar.

Dr. Mojo · Prattler Joined: 19 Feb 2005 Posts: 180

I like yours too. We can be buddies!

I don't understand why people go around yelling "Furry Pride" when furries are so out of touch with the mainstream (as yet) that if they tell someone they're a furry, probably not many people are going to know what the hell you're talking about, as opposed to being gay. If you tell someone you're gay, everyone will know what you mean.

Skunkfuckers Inc. · Needs to get out more Joined: 20 Jan 2004 Posts: 980

I was going to add something meaningful to this conversation, but I think ZenZhu touched on just about everything I could have possibly said.

IMO, I think part of the main problem with furrydom happens to be the fact that no kink is too taboo to be kept within the privacy of people's own sick, sad homes. If you had a fetish for being urinated on, I could care less because any rational human being would know to keep such items away from the public.

See, I've said this a few dozen times, but it bears repeating because I still haven't come to terms with it myself: how come you can have high ranking generals and politicians or successful and wealthy doctors and lawyers who have all manner of fetishes, yet most furries can't do much of anything outside of lower end technical fields?

"Oh and Dr. Mojo, I like your avatar."

"I like yours too. We can be buddies!"

Well, I like both your avatars! Stoneth, Natsuki is adorable, and I loved her in Hyper Police.

Mojo, your avatar made me think of hentai. Which is also a Good Thing.

Actually, it reminds me of that pic Gargoyle did of sakura sitting on Natsuki's face while Natsuki performs an act of cunilingus, which THEN takes me back to a scene in the actual Hyper Police series where Natsuki doesn't quite realize she's come into heat for the first time, and she bends over to look at something and the werewolf guy starts going crazy for a piece of that ass. The scene then pans out to a line of other monsters forming a round the block, all of them hoping to get a turn.

Look closely. Somewhere in that crowd you can see Sasami (from Tenchi Muyo!) in line to get some hot hot Natsuki lovin'!

GoManVanGogh · Vociferator Joined: 18 Nov 2003 Posts: 365

Who's to blame?

Sue's to blame! She made the costumes!
Yes, that was completely unrelated, irrelevant and gratuitous, but if you weren't interested, then what the fuck are you trying to read this small-ass print for?

ZenZhu · TOP POSTER! Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 1510

I don't understand why people go around yelling "Furry Pride" when furries are so out of touch with the mainstream (as yet) that if they tell someone they're a furry, probably not many people are going to know what the hell you're talking about, as opposed to being gay. If you tell someone you're gay, everyone will know what you mean.

I think it's more of that need for external validation. Being "out and proud" about your interest in athropomorphics invites people to either say "That's cool" and reaffirm your hobby/lifestyle/delusions, or say "That's sick" and let you claim victim status. Because, in the end, no one really cares whether or not you beat off while watching Brother Bear until you fucking start telling them about it.

Skunkfuckers Inc. · Needs to get out more Joined: 20 Jan 2004 Posts: 980

Cause you know, the worst thing you can do to somebody on the internet is to ignore them, utterly and completely.

Paul · Vociferator Joined: 01 Feb 2004 Posts: 551

Cause you know, the worst thing you can do to somebody on the internet is to ignore them, utterly and completely.

The same is true in real life, which may help explain why a lot of furries act like they do. The bloody well want a reaction, be it positive or negative.

Rankin · TOP POSTER! Joined: 03 Jan 2004 Posts: 1514

The same is true in real life, which may help explain why a lot of furries act like they do. The bloody well want a reaction, be it positive or negative.

WHY DON'T YOU GUYS TALK TO ME N-E MORE? I AM GOING TO POST ABOUT IT IN MY LIVEJOURANLS!!!!!!! Then hump the dog.

ZenZhu · TOP POSTER! Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 1510

I remember from my MUCKing days having a couple of characters that would rapidly become popular by their desc alone. Seriously.. making characters up on furry MUCKs is like tying flies... with a little knowhow, you can craft the right bait.

I'd frequently get whispers from people out of the blue with all sorts of weird things. I'd typically put them on /ignore without a word cuz I didn't want to deal with them. Then they'd pull on their alts and PM you demanding an explanation. :roll: