Crush...Yiff...Destroy!

Wayd Wolf · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 456

Excellent little article. I still vividly remember the flotsam and jetsam of a.f.f during the time after CF8, trying to stand in the middle of the road, and being run over by both sides for it. Kishma Danielle and Ed Kline, to the best of my recollection, have NEVER backed off from the semen in the elevator story while the mayo claim has been continuously put forth by people who weren't even in the fandom yet never mind even attended that con. It's provable that Kline was there so we can see who is easier to believe.

Good start to digging at the rotting foundations of furry, but there's many others who share a lot of responsibility for it. I only have a problem with nailing specific people as this tends to work against criticism of furry as furries will a)accuse you of being mean and b)allow them to say that these are isolated examples and not representative(when we know very well that they are in so many cases).

On the other hand, some people are so unavoidable in naming in the annals of furry that it is inevitable that some personal tarring happens. Mark Merlino is just the first of those that come off the top of the list of cracks in the dike.

Michael Hirtes · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 519

Excellent little article. I still vividly remember the flotsam and jetsam of a.f.f during the time after CF8, trying to stand in the middle of the road, and being run over by both sides for it. Kishma Danielle and Ed Kline, to the best of my recollection, have NEVER backed off from the semen in the elevator story while the mayo claim has been continuously put forth by people who weren't even in the fandom yet never mind even attended that con. It's provable that Kline was there so we can see who is easier to believe.

What makes Ed's letter all that more of a bombshell was that Ed & Kishma were diehard friends of Merlino for years. I even have some video a friend shot at WorldCon '81 where Ed had on one of his earliest "Eon" outfits (back then, the name or the concept of a "fursuit" was still blissfully decades away, so Ed's outfit was more or less regarded as an alien costume). If you have a copy of Mike Jittlov's "The Wizard of Speed and Time", check out the crowd scene at the end and you'll see the costume in question.

And of course, there was Merlino standing nearby. What makes it disturbing is that Mark looks EXACTLY the same way in 1980 than he did in 1990 or 2003. Balding head, double no-chin, whiny voice. It's all the same.

If things about Merlino were getting so bizarre that even allies like Ed & Kishma had to finally speak out, that's a historical moment in the genre.

And yeah. The mayo story doesn't even qualify as spin as far as I'm concerned. Whether fresh or left out in the open for a few minutes/hours, mayo and spoo do NOT look the same (and no, I didn't run tests. <g>).

Good start to digging at the rotting foundations of furry, but there's many others who share a lot of responsibility for it. I only have a problem with nailing specific people as this tends to work against criticism of furry as furries will a)accuse you of being mean and b)allow them to say that these are isolated examples and not representative(when we know very well that they are in so many cases).

Every fandom has it's share of creepy individuals (anime fandom has one guy called "Captain Oogie", who seems to be the "Bondage Bob" of anime fandom. The dif is that Merlino didn't just open the barn doors to let all the vermin in, he took them off their hinges.

On the other hand, some people are so unavoidable in naming in the annals of furry that it is inevitable that some personal tarring happens. Mark Merlino is just the first of those that come off the top of the list of cracks in the dike.

There are plenty of those who need to be put on trial (then taken out back and shot), but Mark Merlino truly is the ebola monkey that started it all.

PS: One thing Compy didn't mention was Merlino's kink on biting people during "after con parties" back at the "Skiltaire", even if they weren't gay (I guess Mark thought he could "cure" people of their heterosexuality). Watts Martin was one of Mark's victims, and I used to tease him that he's gonna turn into a "weremerlino", going "GAWD-DAMMIT, RODNEY! WOOOOOOOOO!" at the full moon.

Computolio · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 349

One of the things that I hope doesn't result from the Merlino article is people thinking I was saying HOO BOY FURRY WAS ALL GOOD AND CLEAN AND APPLE PIE UNTIL THESE DIRTY DIRTY FREAKS CAME ALONG. That's not really what I think - I think that the whole furry thing was a bad idea from the start and the fact that it's nebulous nature made it OPEN to invasions like the one by Merlino & friends is one of several reasons why.

Michael Hirtes · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 519

One of the things that I hope doesn't result from the Merlino article is people thinking I was saying HOO BOY FURRY WAS ALL GOOD AND CLEAN AND APPLE PIE UNTIL THESE DIRTY DIRTY FREAKS CAME ALONG. That's not really what I think - I think that the whole furry thing was a bad idea from the start and the fact that it's nebulous nature made it OPEN to invasions like the one by Merlino & friends is one of several reasons why.

Furry fandom wasn't clean and pure before Merlino, but he sure as Hell seized upon the seedier elements and perverted the genre beyond salvation, all with the plan to create his very own butt-harem of boys.

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

One of the things that I hope doesn't result from the Merlino article is people thinking I was saying HOO BOY FURRY WAS ALL GOOD AND CLEAN AND APPLE PIE UNTIL THESE DIRTY DIRTY FREAKS CAME ALONG. That's not really what I think - I think that the whole furry thing was a bad idea from the start and the fact that it's nebulous nature made it OPEN to invasions like the one by Merlino & friends is one of several reasons why.

obviously i disagree with you there

but dont worry i dont think it really came across like that at all
maybe the part about the u-bend near the beginning , but even then i dont think you ever make it a point to say furry was ever near-ok, nor is it that easy to infer

but ..you might want a second opinion on that

DA · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 320

Well my response was this...you can twist anything figuratively, there are fans in other fandoms who are the scrapings of the barrels but you always need a ring leader to totally screw it up. I guess that's what this guy was.

I never thought the fandom was all clean and apple pie to start with but really someone shoulda stomped the fursuiters/plushies/beastialistists so hard that they crawled back under whatever roach infested rock that they crawled out of. After all the Trekkies manage to keep the freakier elements under control why can't furry? After all people were screwing animals way before furry came along and they could claim they were part of it.

Swipecat · Qualificator Joined: 15 Jul 2003 Posts: 22

Whatever actually happened, the elevator incident seems to be an example of people believing what they want. Scott Shannon was a first-hand witness who's never backed off saying that it couldn't have been jizz. He said that on the Saturday, it was a large puddle on the floor of the elevator that would have broken the laws of human physiology to produce that quantity. On the Sunday, some of it had been transferred to the wall, possibly by someone treading it and wiping their shoe on the wall, and it still hadn't dried. Does that sound like jizz? Not that I expect anyone to change their mind, after all this time.

Wayd Wolf · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 456

He said that on the Saturday, it was a large puddle on the floor of the elevator that would have broken the laws of human physiology to produce that quantity.

Obviously you've never seen any porn movies. Some people can produce very copious quantities of ejaculate and if spread across the floor, it might seem like too much for the human body to produce but be well within the capabilities of some. Also, it could have been more than one person mutually getting off at the same time. Some people also have the ability to orgasm multiple times in quick succession, each time being more ejaculate than actual reproductive sperm content.

A very good friend of mine who hangs on the periphery of some of the seedier furs' circles regaled me with a story about a room party he briefly attended where one fur was able to shoot a massive amount better than three feet almost on command. That talent is one of the chief reasons Ron "The Hedgehog" Jeremy is still able to command attention in porn.

So, large quantities do not rule out semen. I'd think a grown man like Kline could tell. After puberty, it isn't like you can easily make that mistake. I know, because my brother and I were in our teens into practical jokes and we tried a good deal of combinations of various household chemicals and products to create a fake ejaculate to freak people out with at places like a skate park, arcade, etc. We never did find one that couldn't immediately be placed as false by scent or texture or both by would-be joke victims. It's rather a unique fluid. Artificial blood was far easier.

This all neglects the question, "wtf does sex have to do with anthropomorphics?" While anthropomorphics like any other genre is written by people so naturally reflective of the people and all their facets, only anthropomorphics, which is a very broad genre given that the sole affectation is a bipedal humanoid animal with all the human traits to explore, has so tight a focus on sex both in the creative works and the fan behaviour.

WTF are so many fetishists doing at any furry convention? Not one obstructionist can answer that properly other than to deflect with the statement that what they do in their rooms is their business. Spooge throughout the convention outside of rooms is not what the genre or the con is supposed to be about. Underage participants in room sex parties is ILLEGAL and it isn't hard to dig up a few furs who've witnessed this at nearly every CF or AC over the last six years.

Furry isn't supposed to be about sex but that's what it has become. No, it wasn't solely Merlino's doings that caused this to come about, but he was as some put it a ringleader. As I've said, if the obsession with sex was wholesome and fun and led to happiness, it would be one thing. But it isn't and doesn't for the vast majority. As such it is less an exercise in exploration of the human condition through the lens of anthropomorphics than a festival of defenses and weapons to continue to avoid, obfuscate, and deny what is really wrong with each of the problem people, and their inane defenders.

What we're paying for is the total laziness and cowardice of people when it comes to taking responsibility for themselves and acceptance of the fact that they ultimately are in control of their lives. It starts with refusal to face one's shortcomings, refusal to change so that one can love themselves, and if you can't love yourself honestly, you cannot love others properly as they deserve. It snowballs into mutual corruption as people of various levels of dysfunctionality accept each other's behaviours endlessly making ever more insane excuses for each other until we get... today.

Being honest with yourself isn't easy, but people outside of furry do it every damn day. We see examples of those who fail to do so in alcoholism, drug abuse, sex criminals, domestic violence, and so forth. Why should furry be free of having to draw a line and take a stand against negative behaviours while society isn't? Why is it okay for furries to decry (real or more usually imagined) intolerance and even hatred for them and their hobby while being totally intolerant of the so-called mundane world?

Furries love the phrase "pot kettle black". But it is impossible to deny that furries behave exactly the way they claim society acts. They engage in schoolyard bullying, personal attacks and character assassinations, cover-up of and excuse making for behaviours of favored people(who will draw spooge art for or "yiff" them), and numerous other ways.

Furries claim to be tolerant but their tolerance is venal and self-serving, jettisoned when the target is no longer of any tangible use to them(i.e. no longer drawing pedo/vore/scat/herm/bukkake/etc. spooge, not wanting to "yiff" them, etc.).

Furries claim to be understanding but they understand absolutely nothing of their own human condition and display it in their creative works constantly from physiology(breast and penis size, vaginal capacity other than Danni O) to psychology(their own stunted and denial-ridden self-appraisals).

Furries pretend to be more loving than any so-called mundane but when was the last time you saw furries practicing love? Screwing someone up the butt in a doggie outfit isn't love. Having the courage to risk their anger and opprobrium by telling them flatout that they are hurting themselves and others is love. Turning the other cheek and forgiving their flaming you mindlessly is love. Doing so when they offer you nothing but the mere possibility of one day returning the friendship is love. The years of this fandom are chock full of people who've left because they tried to do it and were ostracized and cast out, treated as "just another mundane" because they refused to go along to get along.

No, furries in actuality have a long history of courting others' affections online and then dashing their feelings on the rocks of their self-loathing actions and then taking dark delight in the hurt. Not one muck can boast of this not happening on a regular basis.

Furries have a long history of dragging the most pathetic examples they can find out into the square as it were and beating them down. As I said recently on a.f.f, Bondage Bob and others like him would be demigods of furry if they drew as well as let's say Hardiman or Smith or Lage. (Note the last one's retreat from furry in disgust. What a loss that was.)

Furries also have a long history of making threats of violence on others all willy nilly with seemingly no concept of what they are starting. How long until one or more turn from merely threats to actually becoming another Columbine twit? News flash kids, there are some people in anthropomorphics you do not want to fight. Some people don't fight and go for the quick kill instead(you throw a punch, they put their #2 pencil in your carotid artery). How long until someone actually crosses the line and throws a punch at someone who can cram them into their own scrapbook and mail them to their next of kin? It's a tragedy waiting to happen.

So how is obfuscation, obstruction, and denial going to help ANYONE? In the light of the proven recorded history of furry, how in the name of everything sane can continued deflection of criticism improve anything?

We're headed for a very bad crack-up sooner or later. Not merely CSI-type exposure, but escalating inane behaviours to get noticed in front of an increasingly jaded society, and all the bad blood furs spill amongst each other until finally violence happens. Wars have been fought by mankind over very little things. Furry is a pressure cooker of warped behaviours and unnecessarily twisted emotions just waiting to have its own Jonestown or Columbine or both. But on the way there, we can expect all the smaller events that precede such climactic things. Just one incident of a beating or God forbid, a murder... was the willful ignorance of and refusal to deal with furry's problems worth that?

If you think so, you're worse than the worst freak.

DA · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 320

Furries love the phrase "pot kettle black". But it is impossible to deny that furries behave exactly the way they claim society acts. They engage in schoolyard bullying, personal attacks and character assassinations, cover-up of and excuse making for behaviours of favored people(who will draw spooge art for or "yiff" them), and numerous other ways.

Furries claim to be tolerant but their tolerance is venal and self-serving, jettisoned when the target is no longer of any tangible use to them(i.e. no longer drawing pedo/vore/scat/herm/bukkake/etc. spooge, not wanting to "yiff" them, etc.).

Furries claim to be understanding but they understand absolutely nothing of their own human condition and display it in their creative works constantly from physiology(breast and penis size, vaginal capacity other than Danni O) to psychology(their own stunted and denial-ridden self-appraisals).

Amen, Been there done that, got my own furry stalker because I'm mean nasty mundane who don't think some artist is an art goddess, I've even had my reputation trashed by this person, heck I wouldn't go to certain cons if I could because this person might be there and having to put up with her badmouthing could result in me losing my temper.

In other words cos I didn't feed her ego, she is allowed to go around acusing me of loads of stuff. :?

The New Meat · Coadjutor Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 327

Just wanted to say, bully for Computolio. Your superlative writing and investigating skills are a godsend to those of us new folk who never learned the entire clusterfucky history of furry. Now I don't have to feel out of the loop anymore. Pip pip!

Furries love the phrase "pot kettle black". But it is impossible to deny that furries behave exactly the way they claim society acts. They engage in schoolyard bullying, personal attacks and character assassinations, cover-up of and excuse making for behaviours of favored people(who will draw spooge art for or "yiff" them), and numerous other ways.

Yes, I've seen that too with a number of artists I've known. It burns them out on the whole furry thing but by that time they've become so deeply entrenched that they can't escape the spooge stigma. Sad.

Amen, Been there done that, got my own furry stalker because I'm mean nasty mundane who don't think some artist is an art goddess, I've even had my reputation trashed by this person, heck I wouldn't go to certain cons if I could because this person might be there and having to put up with her badmouthing could result in me losing my temper.

In other words cos I didn't feed her ego, she is allowed to go around acusing me of loads of stuff. :?

Sounds like you had your own personal Keisterbeast.

I DEMAND SORDID DETAILS!

DA · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 320

Hang on then, I've gotta add some stuff I've discovered since to the file then, though I'm leaving names out to protect the innocent, it's about time I actually did something that I am accused of. A bit formal and stuff due to my needing to keep my temper on a tight rein.

Imaginary Flames.

This is my record of my first encounter with that strange phenomenon known as furry fans, it's absurd and quite oddball and nearly put me off the fandom entirely but who lets a few rotten apples ruin a barrel of good ones?

Being a generally nice person, I do not feel like embarrassing the person responsible, but I do not see why this story should not be shared.

Being an artist and curious about so many of the materials mentioned by friends but unavailable over here, I set out to search out some pencils called prisma-colors to experiment with, after a few pages of search engine links I stumbled across an ‘artist’ who was selling prisma-color pictures, peering around her gallery I ascertained while her coloring had a certain panache the anatomy was sadly lacking.

Further exploration yielded a message board owned by the same ‘artist’ with a lively collection of people, then I made the mistake of deciding to hang around to see what tips and suggestions on coloring I could pick up. I knew that the owner was a furry but had not yet encountered the more insane regions of the fandom so thought that I was going to be having civilized chats with nominally intelligent people, and indeed some were quite intelligent though it was the minority that led to my disappointment with the whole thing.

It was slow at first, I had been on the board less than a fortnight when I decided to raise the question of the smudge tool in photoshop and what constituted overuse as most tools are little more than crutches, while I had made some allusion's to being an artist no board member had really seen my work yet.

I said that I never used a smudge tool because I found it to be unsuitable, one of the other members immediately jumped in and offered to show me how to prepare my linework to use it, I tried to politely decline especially since at the time I was using cell-shading mainly and what would the point of the smudge tool be for that?, then the board owner jumped in as the member in question was a friend of hers and accused me of being arrogant, I was annoyed but apologized to smooth ruffled feathers even though pressing a point home is hardly arrogant.

Things went downhill from there, the board owner waited a week then started sending me notes saying that other board members were complaining about my arrogance, strange how is it virtually none of them spoke to me, I replied calmly that they really should be complaining to me and stated I would try to curb my excess’s.

I should state here that I am rarely arrogant but a learning difficulty has forced me to train my mind to remember facts and figures better than most and I double check most statements, I would not state something I had not thoroughly considered and checked. Some people take it for arrogance that I speak with the assuration of my facts and through knowledge of the subject. I am quite able to and indeed enjoy lively debate, in fact sometimes it is indeed enjoyable to be proved wrong.

At this point I buried my head in the sand for a few days saying little and reading much, after all if one listens twice as much as one speaks much more is learned.

Then the board owner posted a picture that everyone else went into raptures over, being a somewhat better artist with anatomy, I praised the picture reluctantly but at the same time pointed out merely one of the myriad flaws in anatomy and perspective the picture was riddled with.

Well what a backlash awaited me, it appears that giving criticism was all to easy for this furry but accepting it was a whole different kettle of fish, she stored up the bile until I finally posted a few pieces, old of course, I never post new stuff to a board unless I know the members fairly well, then started saying my stuff was Disney-esque and criticized a calculated stylistic anatomy tweak, strangely my stuff is actually simplified reality and never influenced by Disney, hers however was anime, maybe she should have done her research after all anime was derived from Disney originally. Anyone who wishes to know more would do well to watch the history of anime short that is featured on the Animatrix DVD edition.

I let it roll over my head again, I have thicker skin than that and later on arranged to do a picture for one of the other board members I got along well with, I had just started my sketch and was coming up to a month of being on the board when I logged in and discovered my username was deactivated, I set about creating a new one and posting to discover if it was a technological glitch.

All of a sudden I was assailed by rude post having a go at me for flaming another nameless member of the board by private message, though I had not sent any PM's for over a week, I attempted to contact a moderator I believed to be sympathetic but again the owner came down to ban my new account from sending private messages, I asked for proof of this PM but was met with refusal, I guess the PM would not have withstood presentation and she would have been exposed then came the accusation that apparently I had been name dropping in the as she termed it the two months I had been there, again I requested the 'names' I had supposedly dropped and pointed out it was one month, again refusal, Yes for the record I do know some people in the industry but it is unseemly to name drop.

Long story short I drew for three days solid after this the ideas pouring out of me and became an even better artist, the site owner has barely reached mediocrity.

I now chat on myriad boards and encounter few problems, and many friends, The board owner recently threw a tantrum because someone had the impertinence to suggest that her work was slightly Disneyfied.

And of the numerous email address's I gave the board for those who wished to contact me afterwards all the ones they knew and one only they knew of have been mailbombed, yet the ones known only to certain people are untouched.

What have I now got to say to this person, well Grow up. One can only hide from the awful truth of how shallow you really are in your little corner of the web for so long, one day eventually you will find the mirror of your soul and will weep for what you really are.

Oh yes and I would thank her, the incident gave me the push to become a good artist. . I still go back to her website occasionally when I feel like having a laugh at the appalling anatomy.

Amendment, This ‘artist’ should be ashamed of herself, she’s 20-21 and I’ve just found out she’s picking on a 14 year old because he’s done some stuff that is similar to hers or so she thinks, like anyone has the copyright on dragons holding cards.

Just when I thought Furry-dumb couldn’t get any stupider…

Edit:

I’m now on another board frequented by members of the original board which was nuked shortly after I was kicked and have found out that most of them never had a problem with me, just to prove how petty the artist is she has thrown another tantrum refusing to speak to those who would still talk to me, I expect this from 2 year olds not people at her age and has been going around trying to claim I’ve been ‘badmouthing’ her in various places with scurrilous evidence. NewsFlash girly, you’re bad mouthing yourself, get over it.

Oh yes and the flame? Me pointing out an anatomy flaw, the name dropping? Me posting a website that I said often had famous artists drop by. All in all I'm a bad person because i don't think she's a great artist and I have the guts to say it.

Michael Hirtes · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 519

News flash kids, there are some people in anthropomorphics you do not want to fight. Some people don't fight and go for the quick kill instead(you throw a punch, they put their #2 pencil in your carotid artery).

If only those furries who threaten to physically attack me at a con (somehow, they seem to think that being furries makes them exempt from the laws of society) knew what sort of doom they were toying with. In their yiff-clouded "minds", they seem to think I'm just going to stand still and let them throw punches at me all day.

IMO, I get a feeling that even C.S.I. hasn't scratched the surface in exposing the TRUE nature of furries as whining, nasty, conspiritorial, conceited, vicious little hissing shits (I mean, look at what Brian O'Connel tried to pull on me just because he didn't like me telling people what a fraud he is).

Some of the things I've seen furries try to pull would even make the kids from "Lord of the Flies" wince. They are one brainfart shy of getting commited somewhere.

Michael Hirtes · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 519

Amen, Been there done that, got my own furry stalker because I'm mean nasty mundane who don't think some artist is an art goddess, I've even had my reputation trashed by this person, heck I wouldn't go to certain cons if I could because this person might be there and having to put up with her badmouthing could result in me losing my temper.

In other words cos I didn't feed her ego, she is allowed to go around acusing me of loads of stuff. :?

When you say "art goddess" and talk about being persecuted for daring to not worship her, why does the name "Terrie Smith" kick down the front door and jump into my mind?

DA · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 320

Terri smith? never heard of her. This is someone else.

Michael Hirtes · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 519

Terri smith? never heard of her. This is someone else.

Terrie Smith. Terri Smith is another artist altogether.

You've not heard about Terrie Smith? Amazing! She's the one the furries worship with foam flying from their jabbering lips. She is The One who God himself has bestowed the honor of bringing to the world THE #1 favorite character in furry fandom.........Chester the Flaming Skinny Ringtailed Poofter.

Pic of Art Goddess (in her mind, anyway) & every furrie's wackoff fantasy character.

From her art pimp/Tom Arnold of a leech husband to her mob of minions, she can do NO wrong. DOOM is the reward to those who do not praise her glorious name! You wanna get your mystery artist into trouble? Tell furries that she's been going around on the boards saying that her art's better than Terrie Smith's.

DA · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 320

:shock: I'm not that nasty, gimme a link please ^_^ I wanna see this art goddess's stuff for myself :twisted: I've never heard of her, can I consider myself lucky? and I've never heard of Chester...