Crush...Yiff...Destroy!

Sinclair · Prattler Joined: 05 Jun 2005 Posts: 125

"Calling dibs" in this sense is the act of grabbingt something that already exists, and claiming it's yours, or in some cases just claiming it's something.

Take Afrocentrists. Using a variety of shoddy arguments, they claim that not only was Egypt black, the Greeks stole everything from Egypt, and thus all sorts of good things really belong to Africa.

Or the gay activists who claim that was gay. Abraham Lincoln for instance. It's based, again, on shoddy arguments: Take a few statements, often out of context, stir in some empty "what-if", and then speculate. Repeat until at least some people believe it's true.

An example would be the "Hitler was gay" theory. There's little to support it asides from some ancient gossip, and the fact that Hitler didn't seem to be too interested in women (although he was associated with women: There's more evidence to support a theory he was nailing his niece than a theory he was gay).

But, for example, are any furries (or in fact anybody, but I bet only furries care enough) claiming that because Hitler preferred to be called "Wolf" or "Uncle Wolf" by some people, that he was in fact a furry?

AlbinoHagfish · Prattler Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 199

Hitler wasn't gay, he was a coprophiliac though. As for dibs, I can't recall any off the top of my head.

Stoneth · Needs to get out more Joined: 01 Dec 2004 Posts: 1225

By furries "calling dibs" I'm going to assume you mean furries claiming that anything featuring anthropomorphic animals is "furry" even if the people behind it weren't furries.

Like claiming that Kimba the White Lion, Robin Hood, Secret of NIMH, Fritz the Cat or TMNT are in fact furry material.

Cephus · Prattler Joined: 19 May 2005 Posts: 107

By furries "calling dibs" I'm going to assume you mean furries claiming that anything featuring anthropomorphic animals is "furry" even if the people behind it weren't furries.

Like claiming that Kimba the White Lion, Robin Hood, Secret of NIMH, Fritz the Cat or TMNT are in fact furry material.

I guess that depends on how you define 'furry'. If you define furry as 'an appreciation of anthropomorphics' then yes, those things are all furry because those things all feature anthropomorphic characters. If you want to define it as 'things invented solely for the boinking pleasure of a bunch of freaks, losers and mental midgets in the furry fandom', certainly they are not.

I guess the problem comes in when you start to assume that furry is completely insular and that only those things that were created by, for and about the miniscule fandom, are 'furry'. If that was true, then no one would EVER come to the fandom because nothing outside the fandom is 'furry'.

Paul · Needs to get out more Joined: 01 Feb 2004 Posts: 1092

By furries "calling dibs" I'm going to assume you mean furries claiming that anything featuring anthropomorphic animals is "furry" even if the people behind it weren't furries.

Like claiming that Kimba the White Lion, Robin Hood, Secret of NIMH, Fritz the Cat or TMNT are in fact furry material.

Some furries do this, some don't, as there is no agreement on what "furry" precisely entails. I've often read furries claim that Disney's "Robin Hood" or "The Lion King" are furry... oddly enough, it's very few furries (Xydexx comes to mind) who claim that any and all example of cartoon animals are "furry". They're more prone to claiming the stuff they can sexualize (like Robin Hood or The Lion King) to be furry over stuff that's very rarely sexualized (like Mickey Mouse).

I guess that depends on how you define 'furry'. If you define furry as 'an appreciation of anthropomorphics' then yes, those things are all furry because those things all feature anthropomorphic characters. If you want to define it as 'things invented solely for the boinking pleasure of a bunch of freaks, losers and mental midgets in the furry fandom', certainly they are not.

I guess the problem comes in when you start to assume that furry is completely insular and that only those things that were created by, for and about the miniscule fandom, are 'furry'. If that was true, then no one would EVER come to the fandom because nothing outside the fandom is 'furry'.

I think furry is quite insular, but there's no reason why someone can't enjoy, say, Disney animation at face value and also be into weird furry fandom-originated wank material.

As for Hitler, sure his nickname was Wolf - Adolf means "noble wolf". Furries should like that. :wink:

baserock love · Vociferator Joined: 04 Dec 2004 Posts: 685

I've seen that gif "hitler was a furry" many times. I don't know why that was created but i assumed some moron furry made it cuz of his wolf nickname thing. Possibly just another case of furrys trying to relate everything to furry i figured. The main thing is, furrys didn't exist before the 80's and that includes the minoans, the egyptians, and disney especially.

Sinclair · Prattler Joined: 05 Jun 2005 Posts: 125

Maybe a distinction should be made between "furry" and "Furry", the latter being when the whole shebang is spun out into some sort of bizarre philosophy or whatever.

Captain Cowgirl · Needs to get out more Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 1091

I definetley think they've called dibs on 'Robin Hood' at least. I can't even THINK about that movie without remembering its accompanying porn.

Strychnine Velcro · Rasophore Joined: 05 Oct 2004 Posts: 58

Dibs on Alfred Kubin (NWS?) as a progenitor of shitting dicknipple furry art, Bernard Picart (NWS!) for hideous multi-species anthro porn 200 years before VCL even existed, and dibs on Louis Breton for, uh, the awesome dancing frog.

Edit : The major flaw in the theory being that all these artists were talented.

AngryPuritan · Needs to get out more Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 1361

Furries have a new angle for argument where they don't have to claim something is 'furry', but rather 'anthro', and thus covered by furry. This is where you get the bullshit that 'anubis was the first furry' logic from. It's a bit like claiming that sharks are carnivores, and a few carnivores eat gazelles, so therefore sharks eat gazelles.

Really, that's a strength with having such a loose definition of what 'furry' is. Personally, I think arguing over a definition of 'furry' is like engaging several pre-teens with a vivid discussion of the definition of 'cool'.

Where will it get you?

(Also, Hitler was the first furry, EncyclopediaDramatica says so.)

Captious Tyro · Rasophore Joined: 06 Aug 2005 Posts: 51

Take Afrocentrists. Using a variety of shoddy arguments, they claim that not only was Egypt black, the Greeks stole everything from Egypt, and thus all sorts of good things really belong to Africa...

...An example would be the "Hitler was gay" theory.

Whoa. I believe that Northern Egypt was mostly what we would think of as Arab where as Southern Egypt was indeed mostly Black. As far as "owning" good stuff America wins hands down, Americans think they came up with everything or alternately that they improved everything and therefor do it better.

Second I've never heard of a gay person claiming Hitler was gay in order to be associated with him in some positive way. The only time I've heard gays mention Hitler was gay was as a theroy as to why he included homosexuals in his list of the undesireable. Interestingly enough, circa WWII, there were supposedly alot of anti-nazi political cartoons that portrayed Hitler as homosexual so as to make him more hated by Americans.

Lastly, a quick list of things furries called dibs on. Pokemon, Digimon, Road Rovers, Thundercats or any other 80's cartoons with vaugely anthropomorphic characters, any disney-style movies with talking animals Balto, Lion king etc., Doggie Kruger from some variation of power rangers, any anime character with animal ears and/or a tain f.n.a.r.

Sixtail · Coadjutor Joined: 30 Aug 2004 Posts: 93

The Hitler thing amuses me as most..oh fuck, all of the furry fandom would be labeled mentaly fucked up perverts and sent to the gas chambers. Hilter didn't go for that "Open minded" shit, the secound he would catch wind of a hint of furry, they would all die.

Akhetnu · Apocrisiary Joined: 27 Dec 2004 Posts: 50

Actually, as far as Egypt, the only people who claim they were black are well...black activists. Much of the argument comes from the name of Egypt in its own language 'khemet' means black land...but that is reference to the fertile soil, not the skin color. THe notion of egypt being all black and greece owing africa for everything was propsed in 'Black Athena' but its mostly been discredited.

Most anthropologists think that the Egyptians were generally bronze or meditteranean complexion, with reddish hair being more common than not. However, some would certainly have been dark skinned as you go southward to Nubia. Egypt, if anything, can be said to have been cosmopolitain.

Anubis and other gods do qualify as 'anthropomorphic' so someone into anthropomorphics could certainly appreciate art of anubis. i'd hesitate to call it furry though...furries came from the appreciation of anubis; anubis did not come from furries.

Monkey King · Vociferator Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 459

I've actually been told that Thundercats is out because it's "not furry enough", so it depends on who you ask. Robin Hood orignally wasn't furry, but the furries have polluted it so badly they may as well claim it. There's just so much smut it's impossible to ever watch the movie again.

The Egyptians most definitely weren't black. They had plenty of contact with black Africans, such as the Nubians, and in their art blacks are depicted with a more or less accurate skin tone. The Egyptians themselves are depicted in an idealized manner with men having red skin and women with yellow skin, suggesting Meditteranean features in reality.

Abe Lincoln wasn't gay because none of his political opponents called him on it. It's not like gay people only started existing in the 1970s; calling your political opponent gay wasn't an unknown form of mud slinging in the 1800s. It's true he did share a bed with another man when he was renting a room from him, but only for pragmatic reasons (not freezing to death in the winter). People did that in the days before central heating. And Lincoln disliked his wife because it's well documented what a complete and utter bitch Mary Todd was.

Amazing what a little education will do for you. Calling dibs is pretty much the number one sign of ignorance.

Mastertran · Venter Joined: 07 Oct 2004 Posts: 275

The Egyptians most definitely weren't black. They had plenty of contact with black Africans, such as the Nubians, and in their art blacks are depicted with a more or less accurate skin tone. The Egyptians themselves are depicted in an idealized manner with men having red skin and women with yellow skin, suggesting Meditteranean features in reality.

You hit the nail pretty much on the head. The thing with Egypt is that so little of our writings can be read and much of what's left of the Egyptian languge is dead or bastardized people cand draw whatever they want. It's funny because I've been asked about Egypt so much by my co-workers who seem to gleem most of their information from television and movies.

Also to get this back on topic I've never seen Robin Hood porn nor do I want to.

AngryPuritan · Needs to get out more Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 1361

Ugh, who fucking cares what color the eggies were? Regardless if they were arab or black as fucking night the Afrocentrists are still full of shit over Greece copying them. Greece was the liberal massachusetts to Egypt's good ol' boy Georgia, to put it in laymans terms. Egypt may have fostered great architecture and lore, but they aren't the end all story of western civilization.

Monkey King · Vociferator Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 459

Egypt may have fostered great architecture and lore, but they aren't the end all story of western civilization.

I'll say. At least Greece had the wheel. For all the neat things the Egyptians did, they never put two and two together to figure out a better method of moving heavy shit around than having 200 people drag a giant sled around.

Dejan · Prattler Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Posts: 103

Back on topic I guess furries call dibs on the Omaha The Cat Dancer comic book series even though the drawing artist , Reed Waller distanced himself from the fandom as far as I can remember, saying that his toonsmut, is more of a stylistic device than animal people for the sake of animal people as it's common in the fandom.
I could be wrong of course. I'm too lazy to look it up but I think Waller wasn't exactly a fan of the fandom.

Paul · Needs to get out more Joined: 01 Feb 2004 Posts: 1092

Back on topic I guess furries call dibs on the Omaha The Cat Dancer comic book series even though the drawing artist , Reed Waller distanced himself from the fandom as far as I can remember, saying that his toonsmut, is more of a stylistic device than animal people for the sake of animal people as it's common in the fandom.
I could be wrong of course. I'm too lazy to look it up but I think Waller wasn't exactly a fan of the fandom.

Omaha the Cat Dancer first came out in 1981, way before there was a furry fandom. IIRC, Waller contributed to Marc Schirmeister's proto-furry APA-zine RowrBrazzle back in the mid-1980s, but I guess Waller, like many others of that generation of US funny animal artists, were never really part of furry fandom as it emerged and got overrun by the weirdoes and nutjobs.

BTW, Waller has a small VCL archive, but it hasn't beeen updated since 1998.

Stoneth · Needs to get out more Joined: 01 Dec 2004 Posts: 1225

Egypt may have fostered great architecture and lore, but they aren't the end all story of western civilization.

I'll say. At least Greece had the wheel. For all the neat things the Egyptians did, they never put two and two together to figure out a better method of moving heavy shit around than having 200 people drag a giant sled around.

Don't forget language and mathematics too. Egyptian had highly sophisticated hieroglyphics where as Greece had an actual alphabet. Plus you don't ever heard of any famous Egyptian mathematicians or philosophers, now do you?

Sinclair · Prattler Joined: 05 Jun 2005 Posts: 125

I think Egypt had the wheel... They had chariots, didn't they?

Pikachang · Qualificator Joined: 10 May 2005 Posts: 18

Heh, but greeks just ripped the alphabet off the Phenicians, though. In fact, they probably got the wheel from some other semitic people too.

Dr. Dos · Vociferator Joined: 11 Oct 2004 Posts: 718

It's times like this I wish I had a greek style font so i could type up LAWSUITE

Foxid · Venter Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 298

It's times like this I wish I had a greek style font so i could type up LAWSUITE

(Yes, I know, Phi is not 'W', but it looks kinda like a W.)