Crush...Yiff...Destroy!

m_estrugo · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Nov 2003 Posts: 160

As I think you already know, the Belfry Archives allows users to "subscribe" to their favorite comics on the list. And, depending on the nunber of subsctriptions, it displays a list of the most popular comics. This list is an useful tool to know what those using this system consider the most popular comics. Let's take a look at the ranking list on this moment... or, at least, the "furry comics only" ranking.

Number one is Sabrina Online. This is one of the oldest online furry strips available. While we all know all the stuff regarding Eric Schwartz, I won't comment about its contents. But, in some way, Sabrina Online has became the archetypical furry strip: appealing to furry fans, but unattractive and not very interesting outside furry fandom.

The second one on the ranking is Free Fall. To me, it's weird to find a relatively mediocre strip like this so high on the ranking. But there it is, on the second position. One could suppose that this strip would be on the mouth of everybody if we consider how popular it seems to be, but this is actually the first time I hear about this strip. Weird.

The third one is Kevin and Kell. This is a very creative strip and in my opinion it deserves being high on any ranking, as it's probably one of the most professionally made strips available on the Internet. The fifth one is Ozy and Myllie, another example of creativeness and dedication from its author.

Then, we have Jack. I haven't read this one so I don't know if it deserves being there. But I have heard people talking about it, so it does live to its fame.

The seventh place is for The Suburban Jungle. It's one of these strips that doesn't appeal to me, and I can't even know if it's any good because there's a guest strip on this moment and I'm too lazy to search on the archives.

On a side note, I don't know who tought "guest strips" were an awesome idea to put on your webpage when you don't update your strip for whatever reason. In my opinion, they are as annoying as those dammed TV ads that you have to swallow when you're watching your favorite show. But I digress.

A Doemain Of Our Own is eighth. It's a well done comic and competently drawn, but it may be too "furry" for my tastes. Anyway, the artist has shown to be persistent and has been drawing this strip for a long time, so this position may not be undeserved.

And Gene Catlow is ninth. I may not understand why this comic's got so much repercussion, but seeing it's so high on the ranking means that I may be an exception if I was a furry. I'd say this is simply a "cult" comic and as such many people follow it. Or something. :)

I'm not going to comment on each and every strip on the ranking, but, after these 10 first entires, I'll see if I find some other comics that deserve being mentioned.

For instance, WCOTP by our beloved Jim Groat is 14th. I've been kind of following this ranking for a couple of years and have realized that this strip is kind of stalling on its popularity. But, anyway, being the 14th among the over a thousand strips listed on the Belfry is quite an achievement.

And Kit N'Kay Boodle is 24th. So I'll whine. Whine.

I'm also surprised to see a strip like Commander Kitty on the 37th position. This is a very good comic that deserves being much higher. As far as I've heard, this comic's popularity reached its climax in early 2003 and since then it's been losing readers. Besides, the author's got some issues to solve in RL. Let's see what happens now that these issues seem solved.

In the 57th place, we find The Changing Workplace, another weird furry only strip that the author uses to reflect his own life. Apparently, some furries have a fixation with the "transformation" issue, and this strip is the living proof of it. The strip continues with the same name even although the character (and his author) were laid off from the company that inspired the title.

And then, my own online strip Alice Otter is on the 87th place, a more than honorable position if we consider the amount of strips on the site. And it seems to be more popular than some other strips I've heard of, like Purple Pussy. So things aren't so bad after all. :)

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

As I think you already know, the Belfry Archives allows users to "subscribe" to their favorite comics on the list. And, depending on the nunber of subsctriptions, it displays a list of the most popular comics. This list is an useful tool to know what those using this system consider the most popular comics. Let's take a look at the ranking list on this moment... or, at least, the "furry comics only" ranking.

Number one is Sabrina Online. This is one of the oldest online furry strips available. While we all know all the stuff regarding Eric Schwartz, I won't comment about its contents. But, in some way, Sabrina Online has became the archetypical furry strip: appealing to furry fans, but unattractive and not very interesting outside furry fandom.

Yeah, I think a decent amount of people read SOL, probably mostly just for the fact that its been around so long to aquire those readers

Ive personally never really had the time to read this one, Most of the 'Not Sabrina Strips' here on CYD dont make any sense to me because i never read the original stuff.

the only furry comic that I think gets more readers is Ozy & Millie , Simpson's readership at one point was guesstimated at the very high end 50,000...that wouldnt surprise me at all and obviously this is not only furries who are reading it

While i dont read O&M THAT regularly , its such a high quality strip im kind of surprised its NOT in newspapers, as Simpson's original goal for a long time was syndication. I dont think O&M would look out of place on any comics page of any newspaper.

Then, we have Jack. I haven't read this one so I don't know if it deserves being there. But I have heard people talking about it, so it does live to its fame.

Quite a few people here will disagree with me , but i kind of like Jack ..sometimes
I think it has a lot of potential - it has some stuff that Hopkins does that needs to be ironed out, but there are a few chapters of this that i thought were REALLY well written (enough to compensate for the ones i thought totally sucked)
The fact that someone is willing to print the first 100 pages of this comic in book form now, shows there's at least somethign to it.

For instance, WCOTP by our beloved Jim Groat is 14th. I've been kind of following this ranking for a couple of years and have realized that this strip is kind of stalling on its popularity. But, anyway, being the 14th among the over a thousand strips listed on the Belfry is quite an achievement.

I tried reading this one,
but i dont, and probably never wil,l MUCK...so i dont 'get it' and probably never will
from what i gather what floats this strip is that many furries want to have thier characters make a cameo apperance in it

And Kit N'Kay Boodle is 24th. So I'll whine. Whine.

I find this comic ranking that high completely obnoxious

All other points aside, the writing for this strip is utter shit
Thats probably why hes got Albert Temple and his GF (and his own GF) helping him

its funny that it would take 4 people to write this garbage

(i really dont believe that Albert Temple and Tawana whatever her name is are the same people as Richard Katellis and Shirley Chessler-Wakefield)

as for the others:

Free Fall
Kevin and Kell
Suburban Jungle
A Doemain Of Our Own
Commander Kitty
Changing Workplace
Gene Catlow

I really havent had the time to read any of these, if a comic (particularly a webcomic - but paper ones too) doesnt catch my attention in at least some small way the first time i look at it , i will probably never end up going back to it (or at least it will take me a very long time before i get around to it again)

couple that with the fact i am on dialup and going through years worth of strips takes so long, im really not going to get into reading more webcomics until i get a faster connection.

ill just stick with the few i currently check out and thats about it

(in the case of Ozy & Millie , ill just buy the collections when they come out)

And then, my own online strip Alice Otter is on the 87th place, a more than honorable position if we consider the amount of strips on the site. And it seems to be more popular than some other strips I've heard of, like Purple Pussy. So things aren't so bad after all. :)

I actually read both Alice Otter (regularly) and Purple Pussy (when i remember to) , i was originally scared off by the rating on Purple Pussy on the Belfry but i think it actually is really funny most of the time (what ive seen of it)

I appreciate both styles of humor equally

other webcomics ive checked out are the Mousekaroos, which was mostly 'talking heads' and it probably bored a lot of people but i actually really liked it, it sort of grew on me, i guess. Apperantly at some point the girl who does the comic had some sort of server problem and is taking the opportunity to start a new story and rework a lot of the older stuff, shes also selling the comics in book form it seems.
Which, to me, is a good thing, its so much easier for me to read on paper than on a computer screen..i dunno , i just really prefer paper comic books and collections and stuff.

i also liked this one, but didnt read hardly any of it (the bandwidth thing)
BattleGate
this one >

same goes for Kelly's Living in GreyTown, which i actually really liked what ive seen of it , but simply have not had the time to catch up on all the strips. I only got up to may of 2000 on that one.

I would also be interested in knowing who looks at the Belfry listing, its run by furries, but how many non-furries use it

also i think the rating of these comics might be skewed slightly, because obviously, not everyone who uses the belfry is going to 'sign up' and subscribe to comics (i dont even know what that really means or how they handle it)
I use the belfry because it is a very large, extensive list of comics, but i dont use any of its other features

Shmorky · Coadjutor Joined: 22 Nov 2003 Posts: 182

I actually read both Alice Otter (regularly) and Purple Pussy (when i remember to) , i was originally scared off by the rating on Purple Pussy on the Belfry but i think it actually is really funny most of the time (what ive seen of it)

Ugh. The X (NC-17) Thing pissed me off. It's very misleading, but I guess they don't like how I mercilessly tease their retarded subcultures.

same goes for Kelly's Living in GreyTown, which i actually really liked what ive seen of it , but simply have not had the time to catch up on all the strips. I only got up to may of 2000 on that one.

Ugh again. Skip everything in the middle of 2001. I completely ruined that comic and there was no way to fix it. That's why I had to kill it. I'm thinking about doing a new all-human story in the future though.

I would also be interested in knowing who looks at the Belfry listing, its run by furries, but how many non-furries use it

None.

Chris Baird · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 78

The second one on the ranking is Free Fall. To me, it's weird to find a relatively mediocre strip like this so high on the ranking. But there it is, on the second position. One could suppose that this strip would be on the mouth of everybody if we consider how popular it seems to be, but this is actually the first time I hear about this strip. Weird.

Mark has a long-standing rep in the APA scene (FNC, Yarf, etc.), but I suspect it's the "just like a syndicated comic strip" that is its main appeal.

The third one is Kevin and Kell. This is a very creative strip and in my opinion it deserves being high on any ranking, as it's probably one of the most professionally made strips available on the Internet.

I find it mind-numbling cliche'd...

The fifth one is Ozy and Myllie, another example of creativeness and dedication from its author.

O&M is about the only independent 'furry' comic that I notice being recommended by non-furry-fandom subscribers to rec.arts.comics.strips. I think a large part of the appeal is its quasi-Pogo-ness, although I haven't been following it personally.

(It's always fun when someone tries to push Sabrina Online in r.a.c.m, and watch the barfing from everyone else..)

A Doemain Of Our Own is eighth. It's a well done comic and competently drawn, but it may be too "furry" for my tastes. Anyway, the artist has shown to be persistent and has been drawing this strip for a long time, so this position may not be undeserved.

ANd SHE HAS LARGE B00BS!!I!

A large chunk of her popularity on IRC several years ago on was her habit of talking about the size of her breasts at least once a day. "Now listen here, Hon. My huge breasts have cause me no end of back pain." "I would've thought your huge gut and obesity would be the main cause of any spinal problems." "*** cjb has been banned from channel #furry by YiffnetMoronSisterhood (Non-artists MUST be sycophantic towards Artists)"

Ahem...

And Kit N'Kay Boodle is 24th. So I'll whine. Whine.

Thank God and Praise Allah it's not in the top ten...

Purple Pussy

This is just a try-hard effort, imho. I'm thinking this, as there's been a few times Kelly has attempted subtle in-character humour, in-line with the strip's style, and it was half/quarter-arsed. It's the "Space Jam" of Furry comics...

Shmorky · Coadjutor Joined: 22 Nov 2003 Posts: 182

It's the "Space Jam" of Furry comics...

Ewwwww...

You called it furry.

Mitch · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 290

Seems to me most of the comics identified (by their creator) as "furry" are just not all that funny. The honestly humorous ones on Belfry, like "Ozy & Millie", "Kevin & Kell", "Purple Pussy" and "Alice Otter" (to give 4 examples I've actually read) are more in the "funny animal" genre, and anyone who doesn't know jack about Furry would probably enjoy them. And also, their creators aren't "furry" as in "furry fans" (though I'm not sure about Dave Kelly...) The true "furry" strips are usually obsessed with some theme or subsubfetish, or too concerned with fannish injokes to make any sense to TEH MUNDANES, plus of course very few furries have anything approaching a sense of humour, and most wouldn't recognise irony or satire if it upped and bit them on the dick.

And yes, I HAVE had a bad day....

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

Number one is Sabrina Online.

It's been analyzed to death already, but it's still true and bears repeating: it's really the introduction of the porn studio stuff that killed this one. Before that it was just yet another harmless tech-geek comic with decent art, but even since then it's been rather uncomfortable to read. You're supposed to identify with Sabrina, not gawk at ever-increasing attempts to freak her out (and by extension, the reader).

The second one on the ranking is Free Fall. To me, it's weird to find a relatively mediocre strip like this so high on the ranking. But there it is, on the second position.

Heh, I like this one, primarily for all the SF geekery. Decent hard SF comedy is fairly difficult to do. The major problem with Freefall is the absolutely glacial pacing. With only three panels most of the time and three days a week, it takes forever for anything to get done.

The third one is Kevin and Kell. This is a very creative strip and in my opinion it deserves being high on any ranking, as it's probably one of the most professionally made strips available on the Internet.

I agree this one is very well done, but it lost me a while ago when he started piling on the bird conspiracies, humans-from-another-dimension, and such. They just felt too much like forced attempts to alter the mood of the strip. That's just my own personal taste though; others seem to like it well enough anyway.

The fifth one is Ozy and Myllie, another example of creativeness and dedication from its author.

The whole take-on-life-from-adultlike-children/childrenlike-adults (take your pick) worked well for Calvin and Hobbes, and works again here for the most part. He does indeed deserve better recognition.

Then, we have Jack. I haven't read this one so I don't know if it deserves being there. But I have heard people talking about it, so it does live to its fame.

I think this one is famous mostly for being SO 3DGY!!1!. Eh, whatever, I guess my life doesn't suck enough to 'get it.'

And Gene Catlow is ninth. I may not understand why this comic's got so much repercussion, but seeing it's so high on the ranking means that I may be an exception if I was a furry. I'd say this is simply a "cult" comic and as such many people follow it. Or something. :)

I tried to read this one for a bit, but the clumsy shifting between 'so silly teehee!' and 'SO SERIOUS' really put me off.

I'm also surprised to see a strip like Commander Kitty on the 37th position.

A good comic, agreed, but its schedule was really erratic for a while so people may have simply forgotten about it. Git back to work Scotty! *whipcrack*

I like furry comics, but you have to have standards. To me the test whether a furry comic is a decent one or not is fairly simple: does it have any basis to it other than furry? There are plenty of comics out there that are little more than 'teehee, look at us, aren't we so furry? teehee' that automatically qualify for the Recycle Bin of Suckitude. If you've at least got a strong plot, or characters, or at least a recognizable theme, well, that's not a guarantee of quality, but at least you've got a chance. Being furry should be the icing on the cake, not the main course.

m_estrugo · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Nov 2003 Posts: 160

I'm going to start commenting something that both Mitch and the annomymous mentioned on their posts and is crucial to understand why some webcomics are appealing to furries only while some others can be enjoyed by a much broader public.

Seems to me most of the comics identified (by their creator) as "furry" are just not all that funny.
(..)
The honestly humorous ones on Belfry (...) are more in the "funny animal" genre, and anyone who doesn't know jack about Furry would probably enjoy them.
(....)

(...)
I like furry comics, but you have to have standards. To me the test whether a furry comic is a decent one or not is fairly simple: does it have any basis to it other than furry? There are plenty of comics out there that are little more than 'teehee, look at us, aren't we so furry? teehee' that automatically qualify for the Recycle Bin of Suckitude.
(...)
Being furry should be the icing on the cake, not the main course.

The post by Mitch raises a question, answered on the message by the anonymous poster.

Many furries find SO identified with furry fandom that they can't see beyond the fandom's very limited boundaries. Therefore, furry strips devoted solely to appeal furry fandom are equally limited, and are perceived by the "non initiated" as cryptic and weird.

This doesn't happen only with furry fandom; "in-jokes" about a certain group of people have been around since there was humor. But, doing this in a group as limited (and dangerous for your reputation) as furry fandom isn't so recomendable, especially if you are trying to use your art as something more than a hobby. And it's MUCH less recomendable if you don't have any talent but want to draw a comic anyway to: 1) be popular 'cause you've got a comic that makes you popular 'cause you've got a comic; 2) show you are a furry and want to make a pamphet about how cool being a furry is (or rather, it would be); and/or 3) you find wolf-fox-skunk herms with monstruous breasts terribly sexy and there are no comics featuring wolf-fox-skunk herms with monstruous breasts around. Some "furry" comics show all these features at the same time.

PurpleDucky · Recusant Joined: 27 Nov 2003 Posts: 8

I'm just crawling my ass out of lurk to throw in a stray comment. Belfry has always puzzled me a bit. For some reason, my crappy-ass comic somehow made it onto the list way back when... and hell, the damned thing's DEAD and it's still on there. And y'know what's most obnoxious?

It's not SUPPOSED to be furry, dammit! It's just... it's just a bunch of poorly drawn ducks and the occasionally even WORSELY (is that a word?) drawn human! It... I don't get it! I don't comprehend! My head hurts. I'M not even furry, dammit!

Anyhow. Interesting rundown of all the things that are at the top. Though I'm wondering why the hell Sabrina Online is even up there. It's nicely drawn, but... c'mon... objectively speaking, it's nothing that great. It doesn't set the world on fire.

Chris Baird · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 78

I'm also surprised to see a strip like Commander Kitty on the 37th position.
A good comic, agreed, but its schedule was really erratic for a while so people may have simply forgotten about it. Git back to work Scotty! *whipcrack*

"God-fearing Yerf artificially squeaky-clean values can create a better comic strip!"

"You are too Elite, Scotty."

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

I actually read both Alice Otter (regularly) and Purple Pussy (when i remember to) , i was originally scared off by the rating on Purple Pussy on the Belfry but i think it actually is really funny most of the time (what ive seen of it)

Ugh. The X (NC-17) Thing pissed me off. It's very misleading, but I guess they don't like how I mercilessly tease their retarded subcultures.

Well, i would give PP an R-Rating which in web comics i guess translates to NC-17 ..so i think its a fair rating for the most part - I was just coming from the prespective of, at that time i didnt want to get mixed up in anything 'weird' so i stayed away from anything carrying 'adult' ratings...it didnt really occur to me for one reason or another that low-brow or adult humor can fit in there too. I think the first comic i went to that had the maxed out belfry rating was Jack, it was listed as a 'favorite' so i checked it out and liked it ..so then i checked out Rabid! which kinda freaked me out ..but whatever

then theres rowdy strips like ronnie raccoon and pimp cow so..that ALNVX label can really mean anything , not just XXX fetish snuff porn (as i was originally worried it would)

I'm just crawling my ass out of lurk to throw in a stray comment. Belfry has always puzzled me a bit. For some reason, my crappy-ass comic somehow made it onto the list way back when... and hell, the damned thing's DEAD and it's still on there. And y'know what's most obnoxious?

the Belfry is just using the (old?) definition of furry , anything that may appeal to furry fans (as in: fans of cartoon animals)

comics that feature a cartoon animal character prominently, or that the entire cast is cartoon animals

i submitted the comic book link to 'Swamp Fox' to the Belfry, because i figure it might stir up some interest in it
its an independant historical sort of comic book, so i figure it needs all the help it can get, it does look pretty good
what better place to mention it than around furry fans? i mean thats the only reason im around the damn fandom in the first place ..FUNNAY ANIMALS

Belfry comic listing, Doodles' upcoming lists, Capt Packrat's complete furry comic listing ...these sort of things are very useful, and i appreciate them being there

Blair · Rasophore Joined: 16 Jun 2003 Posts: 52

I'm still hoping that bastard artsite creation of ARSEnants goes away eventually. Or he himself just gets hit by a truck.

Prick.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

I'm still hoping that bastard artsite creation of ARSEnants goes away eventually. Or he himself just gets hit by a truck.

Prick.

??

i have no idea what that is

-mouse

Blair · Rasophore Joined: 16 Jun 2003 Posts: 52

Yerf. I hated the site when he built it, and i still hate it.

Shmorky · Coadjutor Joined: 22 Nov 2003 Posts: 182

(though I'm not sure about Dave Kelly...) ....

I'll help you out:

Hell no.

The only kind of person who would call me furry is a furry. I never liked how furries try to claim anything anthropomorphic is furry. I just said furry one too many times today and now I have to wash my mouth out with soap.

The New Meat · Coadjutor Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 327

Number one is Sabrina Online. This is one of the oldest online furry strips available. While we all know all the stuff regarding Eric Schwartz, I won't comment about its contents. But, in some way, Sabrina Online has became the archetypical furry strip: appealing to furry fans, but unattractive and not very interesting outside furry fandom.

Bah. What can I say about Sabrina Online that hasn't already been said? I'll give credit where credit's due, Schwartz is a pretty good artist (though his style strikes me as being kinda WB derivative). But his writing is right up there with Gonterman - he even includes the bonus thinly-veiled insane fetishes - and if he wasn't so good at drawing skunk ass he wouldn't even register in the nerdscape.

The second one on the ranking is Free Fall. To me, it's weird to find a relatively mediocre strip like this so high on the ranking. But there it is, on the second position. One could suppose that this strip would be on the mouth of everybody if we consider how popular it seems to be, but this is actually the first time I hear about this strip. Weird.

The third one is Kevin and Kell. This is a very creative strip and in my opinion it deserves being high on any ranking, as it's probably one of the most professionally made strips available on the Internet. The fifth one is Ozy and Myllie, another example of creativeness and dedication from its author.

I've never read Freefall, and Kevin and Kell isn't bad but neither is it very good. I could be wrong here but isn't it actually drawn by a real life honest to gosh syndicated cartoonist? I think he does some newspaper comic called "On the Fast track." Holbrook seems to have imported that whole "Comics must be funny as oatmeal" mindset from his newspaper days, because that's about as funny as I find this one.

Ozy and Millie is cute and one of the better comics online. Even so, his oh-so-smug hippy mellowness grates on me sometimes.

Then, we have Jack. I haven't read this one so I don't know if it deserves being there. But I have heard people talking about it, so it does live to its fame.

It doesn't. Swiping some cliches from Paradise Lost and Dante's Inferno and turning everyone into rabbits does not make you a comic genius. The violence and depravity of this comic turn me off, but what really pisses me off are the parts where he suddenly turns all sappy and maudlin and desperately tries to yank on the readers' heart strings. I stopped reading when I figured out that every plot pretty much ran like this:

"Oh, happy happy joy joy! Everything is wonderful! Did I mention how much I love everything and life and my lovey dovey wife/husband. LOVELOVELOVE"
*Horrible random tragedy wipes out EVERYTHING*
"Why? Why do you hate me God?!"
*Dies and goes to hell*

I suppose I can see why some people would like it, though. Occasionally, he's got some good ideas, although all too often they're buried in an avalache of furry SUCK. The "All Work and No Play" storyline struck me as slightly more thoughtful than many that had come before it - most of those read to me as simply petty bad-guys-are-punished-let's-all-laugh gloating.

I have to say, though I'm sure I've said this before, that the Columbine story was toe-curlingly awful. Especially odd is that the day was saved when the NRA kid plugged the shooter. Which made me wonder...why did that other kid also happen to bring a gun to school that day? Is that allowed?? Is EVERYONE at this school armed? Next time that there's a school shooting, do we have to hope that there's an NRA member around to defend us? What the fuck?

But, Jesus, I've never seen so many rapes and child murders in one comic. Perhaps it's because it's a furry comic and furry cartoonists are notorious for slipping their own fetishes into their comics, but I suspect that he's wanking to his own shitstorm there. His constant waffling bewtween hardcore violent EDGINESS and schmaltz further leads me to conclude that he hasn't come to terms with this yet, and has to couch all these psychoses in this insulting moral play format. Whatever. I AM TEH ARMCHAIR PSYCHOLOGIST.

The seventh place is for The Suburban Jungle. It's one of these strips that doesn't appeal to me, and I can't even know if it's any good because there's a guest strip on this moment and I'm too lazy to search on the archives.

On a side note, I don't know who tought "guest strips" were an awesome idea to put on your webpage when you don't update your strip for whatever reason. In my opinion, they are as annoying as those dammed TV ads that you have to swallow when you're watching your favorite show. But I digress.

A Doemain Of Our Own is eighth. It's a well done comic and competently drawn, but it may be too "furry" for my tastes. Anyway, the artist has shown to be persistent and has been drawing this strip for a long time, so this position may not be undeserved.

And Gene Catlow is ninth. I may not understand why this comic's got so much repercussion, but seeing it's so high on the ranking means that I may be an exception if I was a furry. I'd say this is simply a "cult" comic and as such many people follow it. Or something. :)

Huh. I haven't read A Doemai of Our Own or the Suburban Jungle, so I can't say much about them. Gene Catlow annoys me just about as much as Jack, though, partly because the art style is an unholy combination of Gonterman and Strawberry Shortcake, where every character walks around with an awed gee-golly-whiz look on his slack-jawed face. And partly because the writing is shit. Oh no the evil hyoomans are killing us lovey dovey furries oh the humanity why can't we all just get along kumbaya my lord.

I don't care what people say, I'm still convinced this is the same jackass behind Kit 'n' Kaboodle.

I'm not going to comment on each and every strip on the ranking, but, after these 10 first entires, I'll see if I find some other comics that deserve being mentioned.

For instance, WCOTP by our beloved Jim Groat is 14th. I've been kind of following this ranking for a couple of years and have realized that this strip is kind of stalling on its popularity. But, anyway, being the 14th among the over a thousand strips listed on the Belfry is quite an achievement.

What is West Corner of the Park about anyway? I've only heard it described as a furry Cathy, so I'm not about to go and look myself.

And Kit N'Kay Boodle is 24th. So I'll whine. Whine.

It isn't the sex so much as the fact that it's completely fucking retarded. I know this guy isn't taking himself that seriously, but the odd time that he does try to stick in a joke it's always just painful. A friend of mine once described this comic as being like a Victorian orgy, frigidly heterosexual and coldly monogamous. I'm not exactly sure what he meant by that, but I like the way it rolls off the tongue.

I'm also surprised to see a strip like Commander Kitty on the 37th position. This is a very good comic that deserves being much higher. As far as I've heard, this comic's popularity reached its climax in early 2003 and since then it's been losing readers. Besides, the author's got some issues to solve in RL. Let's see what happens now that these issues seem solved.

In the 57th place, we find The Changing Workplace, another weird furry only strip that the author uses to reflect his own life. Apparently, some furries have a fixation with the "transformation" issue, and this strip is the living proof of it. The strip continues with the same name even although the character (and his author) were laid off from the company that inspired the title.

Isn't this another not-so-subtle fetish comic?

And then, my own online strip Alice Otter is on the 87th place, a more than honorable position if we consider the amount of strips on the site. And it seems to be more popular than some other strips I've heard of, like Purple Pussy. So things aren't so bad after all. :)

Congratulations. I haven't read your comic yet, but I'm sure it can't be worse than any of those. I'll check it out now.

Hey, my old comic's still on there, too. Thankfully, it didn't make the top list, proving that not every shitty comic can defy reason and magically rise to the top.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

For instance, WCOTP by our beloved Jim Groat is 14th. I've been kind of following this ranking for a couple of years and have realized that this strip is kind of stalling on its popularity. But, anyway, being the 14th among the over a thousand strips listed on the Belfry is quite an achievement.

What is West Corner of the Park about anyway? I've only heard it described as a furry Cathy, so I'm not about to go and look myself.

It's a comic about Jim Groat's friends' characters from good ol' FurryMuck. It's done by a person who thinks he's funny, but isn't. Don't even bothering wasting your time. At least Gonterman's amusing indirectly; Jim Groat just makes you want to puke.

But, Jesus, I've never seen so many rapes and child murders in one comic. Perhaps it's because it's a furry comic and furry cartoonists are notorious for slipping their own fetishes into their comics, but I suspect that he's wanking to his own shitstorm there. His constant waffling bewtween hardcore violent EDGINESS and schmaltz further leads me to conclude that he hasn't come to terms with this yet, and has to couch all these psychoses in this insulting moral play format.

I hear this a lot about that comic. I know why: it's a damn accurate observation.

You know that one rapist character? Drip, I think it was? One of the artists who does Jack has a VCL account just chockful of rape stories. It freaks me out that these people want to teach us all morallity or whatever the hell it's supposed to be.

As for the entire Gen Catlow/Kit and Kay Boodle thing, I don't think you can rule out that they might be the same person. I'm not about to look at Kit and Kay Boodle any more than I must, so I'm not looking at any of it.

Thanks for the forum, guys. Happy hunting.

-Anonymous (Read: Too shy because he has a past littered with things he'd rather forget.)

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

Gene and Katwiskers, black folks
Katalis and his girl friend, white folks. Not very hard to make the distinction between the 2 couples, they are not the same person.

They're art styles don't even look anything alike.

Four different artists, four different people, two totally different comic strips.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

And then, my own online strip Alice Otter is on the 87th place, a more than honorable position if we consider the amount of strips on the site. And it seems to be more popular than some other strips I've heard of, like Purple Pussy. So things aren't so bad after all. :)

I think what makes Alice great is that it's cute (lets face it, the characters are adorable) , clean and the characters are true to life.

What also makes it great (in my opinion at least) is how the story and characters would work just as well if the characters were human but, making them anothropomorphic animals and cute animals at that is brilliant.

This is how furry or funny animal type comics should be.

Dogthing · Coadjutor Joined: 26 Oct 2003 Posts: 207

I remember readiing this one obscure furry comic on keenspace. I think it was called "Rabid" or some other generic 'hardcore' furry title along those lines. It featured horrible art and even more horrible writing. Oh, and a giant pit bull that impales and rips apart the main character on it's giant hot pink penis with organs and blood sloshing everywhere.

That plus several other story lines in which she is beaten, raped, maimed, burned, disemboweled, melted, woven, electrocuted, stuffed, or shredded EQUALS QUALITY

And Purple Pussy isn't furry.

ps. sup Shmorky 8)

m_estrugo · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Nov 2003 Posts: 160

I remember readiing this one obscure furry comic on keenspace. I think it was called "Rabid" or some other generic 'hardcore' furry title along those lines.

Yes, there's a comic on Keenspace named "Rabid" that fits your description. The URL is http://corona.gd-kun.net/. I also remember hearing about it when it was released a couple of years ago. It seems that it has no other point apart of torturing the main character, killing her in horrible ways, but then revive her to be tortured again and again. Fortunately, the strip has been discontinued.

This comic is probably a sample of why furry stuff has gotten worse with time. Anthropomorphic characters became only an excuse to display the authors' sexual fetishes, and those authors have little or no problem to unleash their worse fantasies on those characters.

This awful situation makes authors interested in something else than airing their sexuality thru anthropomorphic characters escape from the fandom as soon as they realize of this situation, and attract people interested on those fetishes rather than anthropomorphics.

And thanks a lot for your praise about Alice Otter, Mouse. (I guess that annonymous poster was him) :)

Rusty · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 82

Actually, it was me. (just forgot to log in)

m_estrugo · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Nov 2003 Posts: 160

DOH! Well, thanks anyway, Rusty. :)

Rusty · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 82

Your welcome :)

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

This awful situation makes authors interested in something else than airing their sexuality thru anthropomorphic characters escape from the fandom as soon as they realize of this situation, and attract people interested on those fetishes rather than anthropomorphics.

Oh, joy. A feedback loop of sorts! :roll: And now we see how an interest in anthropomorphics turned into what it is today.

And Purple Pussy isn't furry.

ps. sup Shmorky

While we're on the subject, I'd have to say that the entire 'foody' event was downright entertaining. Not the storyline, so much the concept, though.

I'm starting to worry about all the self-insertion going on with Roofie, however. If my information is correct, a lot of it seems to happen after she took up art... Ahh, heck. It shouldn't matter that much. I mean, how the heck would I know what's good and bad for a webcomic?

-Anonymous (Too shy-shy, hush-hush, eye-to-eye.)

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

And thanks a lot for your praise about Alice Otter, Mouse. (I guess that annonymous poster was him) :)

that was actually someone else , although I do regularly read alice Otter ever since i found it (i also have 3 Apples)

when im too lazy to actually sign in, or i forget to i usually just sign the post

-mouse

i should probabaly stop doign that though since there are other anonymous posters here

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

i should probabaly stop doign that though since there are other anonymous posters here

Same way I should work up the courage to just get a freaking account here and get it over with. I keep forgetting to signature the things, and I'm worried it might lead to confusement in the future...

-Anonymous for now.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

This is how furry or funny animal type comics should be.

In your opinion, and thus it is no more valid than someone who demands that all anthromorphic animal comics feature GHEY BUTTSEX and nothing but.

The key is the creator, if only there were more creative people imbued with the true spirit of scientific socialism and revolutionary consciousness that such a task demands, all would be well and we would be steadfastly marching t’wards a workers paradise.

The New Meat · Coadjutor Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 327

What also makes it great (in my opinion at least) is how the story and characters would work just as well if the characters were human but, making them anothropomorphic animals and cute animals at that is brilliant.

Not to bash Alice (And I'm not, believe me, it's a good, fun strip), but that's usually what I dislike about furry comics- the stories work just as well with human characters and the whole furry thing is nothing more than window dressing. Nothing's wrong with using cute animals instead of people and it usually doesn't ruin a strip, but if their being animals never comes into play in the story then you just have to wonder what the point is.

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

but that's usually what I dislike about furry comics- the stories work just as well with human characters and the whole furry thing is nothing more than window dressing. Nothing's wrong with using cute animals instead of people and it usually doesn't ruin a strip, but if their being animals never comes into play in the story then you just have to wonder what the point is.

im gonna have to sort of majorly disagree with you here for several reasons

how can you determine the use of a particular type of character is 'pointless' ? if a character using that characters animal traits is the only qualifier then there is a whole bunch of blatantly non-furry strips that you have to ask "whats the point"

i could just as easily ask why use human characters in a strip..why not talking aliens, inanimate objects, shapeless blobs, or geometric shapes

The New Meat · Coadjutor Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 327

but that's usually what I dislike about furry comics- the stories work just as well with human characters and the whole furry thing is nothing more than window dressing. Nothing's wrong with using cute animals instead of people and it usually doesn't ruin a strip, but if their being animals never comes into play in the story then you just have to wonder what the point is.

im gonna have to sort of majorly disagree with you here for several reasons

how can you determine the use of a particular type of character is 'pointless' ? if a character using that characters animal traits is the only qualifier then there is a whole bunch of blatantly non-furry strips that you have to ask "whats the point"

i could just as easily ask why use human characters in a strip..why not talking aliens, inanimate objects, shapeless blobs, or geometric shapes

True enough. People can put anything in their comics. It's not a bad thing at all. I just wonder why it's considered a special plus when a strip uses animals for the hell of it.

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

True enough. People can put anything in their comics. It's not a bad thing at all. I just wonder why it's considered a special plus when a strip uses animals for the hell of it.

I think it depends on who its getting a special plus with i guess

furries - maybe

but even then , Alice Otter is a good example of a cartoon animal strip largely ignored by furry fandom (or so it seems)

I personally prefer cartoon animal characters (or non-human) to human characters, in several genres, mainly just for the fact that a character that is not supposed to look any certain way and its much easier for me to like the character.

to clarify: you can draw a cartoon dog and grotesquely distort it (e.g.: Ren) much easier than can be done with a human character and it doesnt change the fact thats its still a cartoon dog, where as with humans the typical exagerrations and such either make abstract to the point of being unworkable or done to death (big nose).

this is just more my personal preference but ive heard similiar points raised before.

Shmorky · Coadjutor Joined: 22 Nov 2003 Posts: 182

Not to bash Alice (And I'm not, believe me, it's a good, fun strip), but that's usually what I dislike about furry comics- the stories work just as well with human characters and the whole furry thing is nothing more than window dressing. Nothing's wrong with using cute animals instead of people and it usually doesn't ruin a strip, but if their being animals never comes into play in the story then you just have to wonder what the point is.

Pretty much what Mouse said. It's a cartoon, so you simply do things that you normally couldn't do with actors. Some people choose to make all the characters animals if they're doing a story-driven not-very-wacky strip like Alice (that IS a cute comic!) I like doing this too, but it's also easier to exaggerate a cartoon animal's facial expressions without him/her getting to ugly.

I'm starting to worry about all the self-insertion going on with Roofie, however. If my information is correct, a lot of it seems to happen after she took up art... Ahh, heck. It shouldn't matter that much. I mean, how the heck would I know what's good and bad for a webcomic?
-Anonymous (Too shy-shy, hush-hush, eye-to-eye.)

Wowsers, golly. Yes there's a lot of hidden meanings in my comics... guess I'm not very subtle.
Roofie is not me, so it's in no way self-insertion. I just use her to mock some of the things I do as an artist (massive mood-swings, angsty writing, and so on.) It's therapy (most of the strip is. It's a lot like Hothead Paisan.) It keeps me humble. In one strip she says "Sign my web-petition! Join my web ring! read my webcomic..." There I'm telling myself "this is NOT what you're supposed to do! It just comes off as pathetic!" That's the appeal of Roofie. She reminds us of the annoying things us artists do. When I feel like my ego is getting bloated I just think of Roofie and remember that I'm still learning things and I'm far from perfect.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

What I don't understand about the whole debate about what's a furry comic what isn't that appears on the Belfry site (which I didn't even know was still running) is, does it really matter, particularly if you're one of the creators of the comics that are linked there? I mean, isn't the whole point of doing an online comic is to have it seen (since you're not going the traditional route of getting it published)? So who really cares how it's defined?

So people want to call it a furry comic, isn't the point really that there are people who are giving you hits that see it? And creators be they writers or aritst rarely get to 'define' what their work is to other people, people will definite it as they think it should be when you put things in the public arena. Heck, that's done here all the time. So if people are calling your strip 'furry' well, there must be something about it that is causing them to do so, but the bottem line should be you're ought be be happy a furry or not, bothered to think it note worthy enough to add a link to it so that others can see it and you're viewer base increases.

I liken it to a racist from the old south that would not take a black person's money. How stupid is that. Money is money, if you have a store, what difference does it make who it comes from when the main goal of your business is to make a profit. If you're willing to cut off an area of possible profit just because you don't like them, then you're cutting off your nose despite your face. I think that's what ultimately happened to Reality Check. They were so strong in their attempt to say they weren't furry, the ultimately alienated the very people who were their largest fan base, weither if the comic truly was 'furry' or not.

Genghis · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 186

I liken it to a racist from the old south

WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP FAG ALARM ACTIVATED PLEASE REMAIN CALM WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP

Rusty · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 82

Well, one thing about using animal characters that I like is how the cute factor increases. I mean take Alice, adorable little girl with a bit of an attitude (my kinda kid :D), that alone would be cute enough, but combine that with a cute animal and you've got something special.

One thing about having animal characters that you can get away with is the no pants look. Okay, that's more of a cartoon thing, but for human charcters you coulden't get away with that. Why do I mention that? Well, for an animal with a large tail, pants could be difficult. And for Alice, the no pants look actually makes her even cuter. I dunno why, it just 'works' for her.

There are things that could be done to take advantage of her animal species though. For example, she's an otter, so she could enjoy taking baths, perhaps to the point where you'd have a hard time getting her out of the bath rather then in it. That could make a cute scene.

Another thing I like about animal characters is how it allows for a lot more diversity (other then skin colour etc) and I also agree about the exagerated features. For example, you could create a rabbit with impossible large ears, much harder get away with that with a human. You could also create a skunk with a tail 3 times it's body size, again, since humans don't have tails, really can't do that with a human.

I think there is another reason for it. One thing I think a lot of people wish they could have would be say a cat that talks and has human intelligence. Imagine how neat it would be to be able to have an inelligent conversation with your cat but it'd still be a cat so you could still enjoy 'cat time' with it. I think that's part of the appeal of characters like Alice. A lot of people like otters, I know I do. Now, take an otter and combine it with an adorable little girl. I think that's part of the appeal, their like the best of both worlds.

VanityFare · Recusant Joined: 11 Dec 2003 Posts: 2

Hmm.. the use of anthropomorphic animals in a comics when they are not nessecary. Well, I think it can be great and all to write out kinds of comics where it can only work with anthropomorphic animals, but see sometimes you write out things that are rather open ended where you could use anthropomorphic animals, humans, anthropomorphic vegetables.. whatever. So everyone has different feelings on the matter, but my personal feelings are.. anthropomorphic animals are simply a casting choice. they're "the actors i have hired to act out what i have planned out for them to do"

Of course, I need to learn how to draw first (Yeah yeah, I know.. "Why are you wasting your time sharing ideas you have "if you could draw" when you could get off your ass and learn how to draw?!" I can't give a reasonable answer to such a question.. other than I am doing what I can to motivate myself) but thanks in part to reading Dave Kelly comics, The Far Side and things like that.. I'm very fond of "multi-creature" worlds.. I like the idea of creating worlds/universes where humans and non-human, yet anthropomorphic creatures exist together and they all act like it's perfectly normal.. for the most part at least. Oh and all the creatures have the potiential to be good, evil, and inbetween.. I don't buy into the "EVVVVILLL HUMANS. GOOOOOD ANIMALS" tripe. Hell, one of the ideas I've had going around my brain is this little thing where the reader would be led to believe a human is committing all these murders, you know lead folks on that "bad bad evil wicked human!" type thing they love so much, only to kind of slap 'em in the face when it turns out to be a non-human creature committing these murders. Of course, before anyone thinks or asks.. I'm not trying to aim for a "EVIL NON-HUMAN CREATURES" thing either.

Oh and have this twisted character idea.. not perversely twisted.. just "oddball" sort of twisted. Something like this might have been done already, ah well. You know minotaurs? Well my idea is this half human-half bicycle creature. It's absolutely insane. The character would be based on my friend who's really into BMX biking.. always working on his bike or riding it around attempting/actually doing tricks on it.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

Of course, I need to learn how to draw first (Yeah yeah, I know.. "Why are you wasting your time sharing ideas you have "if you could draw" when you could get off your ass and learn how to draw?!" I can't give a

Try a medical anatomy book.

reasonable answer to such a question.. other than I am doing what I can to motivate myself) but thanks in part to reading Dave Kelly comics, The Far Side and things like that.. I'm very fond of "multi-creature" worlds.. I like the idea of creating worlds/universes where humans and non-human, yet anthropomorphic creatures exist together and they all act like it's perfectly normal.. for the most part at least. Oh and all the creatures have the potiential to be good, evil, and inbetween.. I don't buy

I hope you will remember that all moral judgements like good, bad and evil, are purely subjective and arbitrary human construct.

Ethics and morality are mostly situational as humans apply them in acutality.

Oh and have this twisted character idea.. not perversely twisted.. just "oddball" sort of twisted. Something like this might have been done already, ah well. You know minotaurs? Well my idea is this half human-half bicycle creature. It's absolutely insane. The character would be based on my friend who's really into BMX biking.. always working on his bike or riding it around attempting/actually doing tricks on it.

The problem with most character ideas is that they are rarely original or interesting to anyone but the originator.
(See VCL)

I mean, No offense, But I don't know your friend.
Why should I care or be interested?

Genghis · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 186

Okay, which one of you fuckers is responsible for this?

Dogthing · Coadjutor Joined: 26 Oct 2003 Posts: 207

Okay, which one of you fuckers is responsible for this?

Hey, I didn't know you had a comic. :)

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

ONly heard of one of those comic which is SOL of course. Personaly I don't read many fur comics Save Extictioners which I think really kicks ass despite the fact that none of you people seem to like Tamer that much. O well, to each his own.

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

Okay, which one of you fuckers is responsible for this?

MUAHAHAHA

just kidding... it wasnt me

but i dont think you should care for the same reasons i told 'PurpleDucky' she shouldnt care

Or for the same reason that i submitted 'Swamp Fox' guy's comic book there, and he shouldnt care, cuz the guys comic is probably gonna flop if he doesnt get sales on it
i dont even know if its coming out anymore

PurpleDucky · Recusant Joined: 27 Nov 2003 Posts: 8

True, true, the point that was made actually sank into my squishy little head. It's not so bad, being on Belfry. Just one more link, eh?

Of course, we could go the opposite direction, Ghengis, and start the the "What The Fuck am I Doing On Belfry?!" club! :D

...or not.

GoManVanGogh · Coadjutor Joined: 18 Nov 2003 Posts: 140

All this talk kinda makes me wonder what would've happened if I stuck with that "Crass Menagerie" nonsense. I would've, except the whole thing was done to...

Lemme start from the beginning. I made it back when I was attending the American Academy of Art, and in order to fulfill this one necessary credit you had a choice of taking a class in either Copywriting (oh, joy and rapture) or Comic and Fantasy Art (KOOOOOO-WELL!)

Unfortunately, by the time I got to my final year of the program, the administration, in their eternal wisdom, decided to WITHDRAW Comic and Fantasy Art due to what they claimed was a "Lack of interest on behalf of the student body" (ie: only the geeks and none of the brush-up-the-ass richie-fuck "fine art" students were interested).

However, I used my talent for pissing and moaning to finally convince the (dick)head office to make an exception in my case, and assigned me as an "independent study" under the direction of my old illustration teacher, Thomas Herzberg who, while being a nice (ie: dull as Hell) guy, admitted himself to knowing precisely 1/4 of jack shit about comics and fantasy art. Anyhoo, one of the study procedures we decided on was for me to produce a comic strip. So I created "The Crass Menagerie", which I and my (few) friends found to be funny, but which Herzberg didn't understand at all ("Uh, what does 'nah' mean?" "Why not have some birds or a bear in the background? That'd be funny.") then again, ever try to get a teahcer to laugh at ANYTHING?

It wound up where I had to take Copywriting anyway, and TCM pretty much became a memory. Oh well, maybe someday I'll try to reintroduce it, that is if I ever get a job where I make enough money to move out of my mother's house which, thank's to President Bonehead's stellar economic handling and the resulting job market thereof, I've been forced to reside.

In closing, piss-moan-bitch-bitch-moan-whine-piss-piss-whine-moan-moan-bitch....

Mitch · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 290

ONly heard of one of those comic which is SOL of course. Personaly I don't read many fur comics Save Extictioners which I think really kicks ass despite the fact that none of you people seem to like Tamer that much. O well, to each his own.

Dear Guest, why don't you register? You can use any wacky name you like, and you don't have to enter any personal info. I'm only saying it since that was your 16th anonymous post and it might be nice to be able to tell you apart from all the other "Guests".

The New Meat · Coadjutor Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 327

Mitch, I love those boxing squirrels.

LaughCo · Recusant Joined: 30 Dec 2003 Posts: 13

Personaly I don't read many fur comics Save Extictioners which I think really kicks ass despite the fact that none of you people seem to like Tamer that much.

We don't like Tamar?

Gee, when he spouts off in A.F.F. saying things like

Subject: Crush Yiff Destroy: Losers of 2003 ... So many mouths and not an ounce of true talent among them

it's not hard to see why we should cut him any slack. (see http://www.crushyiffdestroy.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=209 for his full post.) Seems to me that he went out of his way to bash the folks here.

As for his no talent crack, The Extinctioners hardly qualifies as talent -- super furries against evil humans, that's hardly original.

Talent issues aside, he's free to draw and post whatever he feels like just as we do. The problem seems to be that unless we agree with his views, he thinks we should shut up and go offline.

DA · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 320

Interesting, went and took a look at extinctioners for myself, he isn't a bad artist but he isn't superb either, I'd say I could draw the same stuff he does. :P So the no talent crack is nonsense.