Crush...Yiff...Destroy!

Michael Hirtes · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 519

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent" -- Eleanor Roosevelt

If only I had read those words thirteen years ago.

Remember that little discussion I was having over at "alt.binaries.nospam.toons" over Kthanid's pedophilic Kthrap? Well, it looks like Shon Howell's siding up with the pedo gang and threatening to post all sorts of old art requests I sent him if I don't shut up and obey him (back when I was still doing a zine where I needed art from him, and when I was under the delusion that Shon Howell WASN'T a sadistic putz).

For some reason, Shon seems to be under the impression that I actually CARE what he does with all that old shit anymore. I guess he still thinks that by pulling an "O'Connell" he could cause me to fall apart into a pile of twitching nerves (BOC pulled that stunt on me once as you might have read, but he got his ass handed to him for it by all the other readers, and Brian got upset at the flames & quit yet again, but I digress).

Yes, there actually was once a time when I cared SO DAMN MUCH about furry fans that I wanted to get along with these abominations SO VERY BADLY. And well, we ALL know what happens when you put your feelings into the hands (paws?) of a typical furry fan, don't we? Well, at the time, I didn't. Never gonna make THAT mistake ever again.

Having to be at the recieving end of Shon's crap had eventually given me the strength to wake up to what these creeps were doing to me and break away from that fandom (although I'm sure my epiphany wasn't his intention). His erratic mood swings, his spite, and his cruelty taught me that I should stop letting these psychos slap me around every time they want to take it out on someone. I feel ashamed that I let them cause as much misery for me as they did. I *really* wanted to be their friend, and I got treated like a prison bitch by them as a reward. Eventually, I stopped giving a damn what these clods think of me, but I guess there are still some who want me to dance at the end of their string for old times sake. Shon seems to be such a creature.

I mean, has Shon REALLY held onto all that old zine trib art request shit? What purpose does it serve after all these years and the zines they were meant for are long since defunct? To use against me years later? Seems like it. Pretty fucking disturbing when you think about him holding onto this stuff as (what he thinks is) some sort of psychological A-Bomb against me if/when I stopped letting him push me around.

But, what this bozo hasn't realised yet is that maybe this stuff might have made the OLD me crumble into a nervous breakdown. The OLD me that was still desperately trying to get along in furry fandom and make everyone in furry fandom happy. He seems to think that I'm still the person he knew that ran himself ragged trying to keep a zine together and trying hard as fuck to stay on everyone's good side, no matter how much misery it was causing me.

I could go on and on about the types of Hell this guy had put me through, but in a way, that would just be letting the fucker make me his bitch again.

Let's just say that Shon Howell has been a VERY good example as to the types who delight in inflicting the mindless cruelty that furry fans are legendary for.

Sorry for the rant. Hope I didn't let that bastard push my buttons again.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

Who's Shon Howell?

m_estrugo · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Nov 2003 Posts: 160

This is Shon Howell. A potentially good cartoony artist, but he's been trapped into furry fandom's orbit for too long and can't get out of it.

Wayd Wolf · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 456

Who's Shon Howell?

That is the best punch line to Mike's post that ever could be.

Don't worry Mike, people still hold shit against me from when I tried playing peacemaker and smoothing over furrydom's faults. I don't let it bother me and you shouldn't let your past in furry bother you. Shon Howell and BOC may have names that come up again and again for any newbie but yours is a name that comes up before the disenchanted, pointing out what can happen if you let furry smack you around: you reach a breaking point and gotta take a stand. So keep standing, Mike.

Wayd Wolf · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 456

This is Shon Howell. A potentially good cartoony artist, but he's been trapped into furry fandom's orbit for too long and can't get out of it.

As a man married to a woman with genuine big-ass boobs, I have to say Shon needs some serious experience with the opposite sex to set him straight, because real boobs don't look like that without implants and some extremely careful plastic surgery exactly for that effect. I've seen literally several thousand strippers and none had boobs like that. Oy.

Dogthing · Coadjutor Joined: 26 Oct 2003 Posts: 207

I've seen literally several thousand strippers

Holy shit dude

Computolio · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 349

I say let him spill the beans. What could that info possibly reveal other than U LIEK/LIEKED FURRY PORN which the entire fucking planet already knows?

Also: It kinda sucks that Google can't seem to get to the alt.binaries.nospam.toons group. HILARITY DENIED

As a man married to a woman with genuine big-ass boobs, I have to say Shon needs some serious experience with the opposite sex to set him straight, because real boobs don't look like that without implants and some extremely careful plastic surgery exactly for that effect. I've seen literally several thousand strippers and none had boobs like that. Oy.

ZING!

I must say that this is the first time I've found your "HAHA I'VE SEEN REAL WOMEN NAKED CUZ IM MARRIED TO ONE YOU FURFAG LOSERS" type-comments to be really effective.

No, seriously.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

I've seen literally several thousand strippers

Holy shit dude

That's nothing. Did I ever tell you that I OWN no less than 2 strippers?

Paint strippers that is.

Wayd Wolf · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 456

I say let him spill the beans. What could that info possibly reveal other than U LIEK/LIEKED FURRY PORN which the entire fucking planet already knows?

Also: It kinda sucks that Google can't seem to get to the alt.binaries.nospam.toons group. HILARITY DENIED

As a man married to a woman with genuine big-ass boobs, I have to say Shon needs some serious experience with the opposite sex to set him straight, because real boobs don't look like that without implants and some extremely careful plastic surgery exactly for that effect. I've seen literally several thousand strippers and none had boobs like that. Oy.

ZING!

I must say that this is the first time I've found your "HAHA I'VE SEEN REAL WOMEN NAKED CUZ IM MARRIED TO ONE YOU FURFAG LOSERS" type-comments to be really effective.

No, seriously.

Everyone who has considered the unreality of furry femmes needs to think very carefully about something: REPLICATIVE FAILURE.

"Okay, Wayd. What does genetics have to do with bad art?"

ANYONE who's read more than one porno mag or seen one hour of porn KNOWS what boobs look like. They know where the vagina goes, how close to the anus it is, and what pubes look like. Humans being excellent pattern recognition machines, KNOWING encompasses extrapolation. Imagination based on that KNOWING makes you pretty damn accurate when you look at clothed females. Over the years, you can almost tell where the pimples and other defects would be and everyone has them.

Well, do furries look at HUMAN porn, never mind get their mitts on real females?

No, they read furry porn.

"And that means?"

If you know from reality, you're replicating knowledge based on exactly that, reality. Furries replicate sexual knowledge strictly on the already largely inaccurate guesswork of decades of furry crap. Replicate errors, and you increase them. We're nearing the point where furry art will have the boobs so far up the chest that they'd be on the shoulders and the vagina so large and out of position that the female's cervix would be where their intestines should be.

SOME artists are accurate. More are merely close. HUGE HONKING NUMBERS OF ARTISTS aren't close and make Vargas pin-up work look like an anatomy text from med school.

Oddly, furries don't seem to grasp that and instead argue over the anatomical reality of placement of a tail, seemingly unaware of the sensation of their own coccyx. They more frequently argue over plantigrade versus digitigrade. But the only ones calling them on their inaccuracies of female anatomy are actual females and those in furry are never listened to. If anything, they need to look at human erotica at the very least if they want an idea (never mind ask someone out to coffee, date, try to interact normally). But noooo...

DA · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 320

God...I wanna just slap the guy silly for that anatomy....>.< potentially good? He only appears to be able to draw one thing and that's just a copy of original workings, I've seen that style before done a hell of a lot better. call him potentially good when he's actually producing something other than virtually identical pictures.

Wayd Wolf · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 456

(snip)...producing something other than virtually identical pictures.

Holy crap, I thought I was the only one who was thinking that and didn't say anything cause I thought I might be losing it. He'd probably make some money among furries selling something like one of those scratch art kits. You know, a dozen plastic relief templates where you mix and match and put paper over, then rub with a crayon like kids had for Barbie and Transformers and a dozen other themes. Then everyone could turn out, ahem, "original" Shon Howell works. With six each of three sections, that's 216 or so combinations and enough "originals" to fill your own web site! :twisted:

Of course, updating to the computer age, we could have tens of thousands of combos. First one to write the generic server-side software could foist in on dozens of furry artists and fill the Internet to explosion point with bad art.

Michael Hirtes · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 519

(snip)...producing something other than virtually identical pictures.

Holy crap, I thought I was the only one who was thinking that and didn't say anything cause I thought I might be losing it. He'd probably make some money among furries selling something like one of those scratch art kits. You know, a dozen plastic relief templates where you mix and match and put paper over, then rub with a crayon like kids had for Barbie and Transformers and a dozen other themes. Then everyone could turn out, ahem, "original" Shon Howell works. With six each of three sections, that's 216 or so combinations and enough "originals" to fill your own web site! :twisted:

Of course, updating to the computer age, we could have tens of thousands of combos. First one to write the generic server-side software could foist in on dozens of furry artists and fill the Internet to explosion point with bad art.

Um, not only is Shon's art well-known as "The Wig Of The Month Club" (as one Canadian artist I knew described it), but he's damn proud of that fact. Seems this is all he's good at.

At the moment, he's been trying to get buddy-buddy with all the kemono artists in Japan (Trump, Dr. Comet, etc.) so he can maintain his self-POV as one of the biggest names in furry art. If I were an artist myself, I'd LOVE to have been able to do a satirical version of his "Big In Japan" folio and call it "Heard of in Bulgaria" or something.

Wayd Wolf · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 456

Um, not only is Shon's art well-known as "The Wig Of The Month Club" (as one Canadian artist I knew described it), but he's damn proud of that fact. Seems this is all he's good at.

A real "Draw Tippy" artist then. Thankfully there's not too too many like that even though Daphne Lage's femmes often had the same look over and over and strangely seemd oh so Terrie Smith over and over. At least it wasn't cartoony...

Oh yeah, that's where I remember that look of Howel's... Phil Foglio's Phil and Dixie stuff in Dragon from years back.

At the moment, he's been trying to get buddy-buddy with all the kemono artists in Japan (Trump, Dr. Comet, etc.) so he can maintain his self-POV as one of the biggest names in furry art. If I were an artist myself, I'd LOVE to have been able to do a satirical version of his "Big In Japan" folio and call it "Heard of in Bulgaria" or something.

LMAO... This is his aspiration? It would come off more like Weird Al's "Genius In France". http://www.com-www.com/weirdal/geniusinfrance.html

DA · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 320

Never heard of Wig of the month, or of those Kemono artists. big in japan? Yeah right... :roll: In what fantasy world? :wink:

Michael Hirtes · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 519

Never heard of Wig of the month, or of those Kemono artists. big in japan? Yeah right... :roll: In what fantasy world? :wink:

Never heard of Trump? Just sneak into a furry con's dealer's room and say "Hey, isn't that Trump over there?" and watch all the furries get whiplash from the sudden turning of all their necks.

Shon USED to be a halfway decent artist a decade ago (and before I knew what he was REALLY like as a person). In the years since, he's redone his art style to be more "toony" and less detailed. Probably out of sheer laziness coupled with his ever-growing ego.

Another thing about Shon is that during his stint in the Air Force, he was fighting the commies by being an OB/GYN assistant. So, the guy SHOULD have had SOME idea what certain parts of the female anatomy should look like already. Maybe he just brought in the medical doodads into the exam rooms before the ladies came in and was kept outside the room when it was going on. Bet he had a spare stethoscope pressed against the door each time too.

A small trivia note: If you ever watched the old anime "Otaku No Video" and saw the segment about the American anime fan named "Shawn Fernandez" (played by some actor who looked disturbingly like Brian O'Connell) who whined about how he wished he was "born in such a blessed country as Japan", that's based partly on Shon (or so Shon sez), who at the time was in charge of Gianax's US Sales Branch, and ran it straight into the ground, later telling all his friends how it was all Gianax's fault (NEVER his! ohnononononothimneveritjustcannotbe!) for not listening to his advice.

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

I was under the impression that Shon Howell was involved with that Jimu person @ the root directory of his site

http://www.art-of-jimu.com

Never heard of Wig of the month, or of those Kemono artists. big in japan? Yeah right... :roll: In what fantasy world? :wink:

heres some kemono sites

http://www.fang.or.jp

this site looks mostly G-rated..seems really cool actually

this kemono site, however :

http://www.kemonet.com/

contains some EXTREMELY VIOLENT FUCKED UP artwork

I mean this is some genuinely nasty shit (not Zorro Re nasty but more like werewolves raping and murdering deer-morphs nasty)

Which is what I think it what it is supposed to be since the artist called it something and said that word translated means that 'the beast looks cruel'

whatever...more annoying than all the other shit wrong with furry fandom is when they get fixated on the whole predator-prey thing, this is where a lot of the fucking vores and weres and all the OTHER stupid shit comes from

but probably the most disturbing part of this site is the loving, fawning comments posted about some of the most gory artworks

you can tell these people are creeps

(also in case anyone was unaware of it, try using babelfish translator, you can put in a URL select the translation and it will translate the page for you and display it. its a brute force, word for word translation so its pretty choppy but you can usually get the general idea and navigate through the site)

Computolio · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 349

At the moment, he's been trying to get buddy-buddy with all the kemono artists in Japan (Trump, Dr. Comet, etc.) so he can maintain his self-POV as one of the biggest names in furry art. If I were an artist myself, I'd LOVE to have been able to do a satirical version of his "Big In Japan" folio and call it "Heard of in Bulgaria" or something.

That's so pathetic I just nearly shit myself laughing. The doujinshi scene may produce the freakiest garbage on earth but they fucking mean business. The way they work is a total 180 away from how furries work. That and he can't fucking touch them in terms of technical skill.

Also: The TRUMP site* contains some of the greatest Engrish I have EVER FUCKING READ.

*NWS and cut-and-paste the URL for it to work.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

This is Shon Howell. A potentially good cartoony artist, but he's been trapped into furry fandom's orbit for too long and can't get out of it.

As a man married to a woman with genuine big-ass boobs, I have to say Shon needs some serious experience with the opposite sex to set him straight, because real boobs don't look like that without implants and some extremely careful plastic surgery exactly for that effect. I've seen literally several thousand strippers and none had boobs like that. Oy.

TMI dude. TMI.

DA · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 320

:wink: Excuse me while I laugh so hard I bust a gut, those guy's big name? I mentioned most of these guy's to some people in the know about Japan's art scene and got a who? response. Most of japan isn't even aware of them.

:twisted: That and I could draw better than most of these lot 2 years ago. A couple of pics I even spotted aren't art, they're hacked up photos.

Ethan A. Stanger · Rasophore Joined: 23 Oct 2003 Posts: 53

This is Shon Howell. A potentially good cartoony artist, but he's been trapped into furry fandom's orbit for too long and can't get out of it.

I think it would be safe to say that Western artists should not try to draw Eastern style art or apply it's influences, unless they're really good at it. Adam Warren seemed to do a reasonable job at it, from what I can remember of his art. Fred Perry and his ilk are fine examples of why it doesn't work.

DA · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 320

I know of a few good artists who draw both styles well, but for every good one there must be a thousand bad.

Either that or they get too good, to the point where they kill their art stone dead, it becomes nice to look at but it doesn't live.

Eastern style can be beautiful so long as you actually know what your doing, no to mention know and respect the traditions behind it.

m_estrugo · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Nov 2003 Posts: 160

Eastern style can be beautiful so long as you actually know what your doing, no to mention know and respect the traditions behind it.

Good point. Far beyond the surface of manga, there lies a different philosophy, or way to concceive the world, that serves as its "spirit" and gives it an autonomous personality.

Things like their different approach to human expression are for instance based on No and Kyogen theatre, a classic theatrical form that got abstract and stylized with time, based more in symbols rather than in real things. This symbolic language is strange for us, but it's part of Japanese culture, so they understand its symbolicism with no major problems.

It happens the same on manga stuff. While their aesthetics and actions may seem strange and even strambotic on our eyes, it's full with a simbolism based on a totally different philosophy that escapes to most of Western people.

Many so-called artists are attracted to manga only because their aesthethics and try to emulate it without getting its idea: they only do it "cause it looks cool" or because it's the latest fad. For me, this is like watching chimps imitate human behaviors without understanding why they're doing it. :)

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

traditions behind it.

What? 40,000 dead people can’t be wrong?

“We’ve always done it this way!”

Tradition is in itself, No good reason for anything at all, nor for "respecting" something.

I do think that Japan is Fu><><o0red up though. More so than here.

m_estrugo · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Nov 2003 Posts: 160

traditions behind it.

What? 40,000 dead people can’t be wrong?

“We’ve always done it this way!”

Say wha?!

Mass Treble · Recusant Joined: 16 Dec 2003 Posts: 7

Tradition is in itself, No good reason for anything at all, nor for "respecting" something.

I think this was the most important line in that post, and seems to be what he was actually getting at.

As for myself, I can only agree to a certain degree. All traditions are suspect to us Americans, but we keep a lot of them. In much the same way, I keep traditions that have kind of value to me.

As for artistic traditions, I love those almost as much as I like raw creativity! For instance, classical Japanesse style is rather attractive and striking, or at least it is to me.

I do think that Japan is Fu><><o0red up though. More so than here.

I'm, uh, not going to explore that one.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

:wink: Excuse me while I laugh so hard I bust a gut, those guy's big name? I mentioned most of these guy's to some people in the know about Japan's art scene and got a who? response. Most of japan isn't even aware of them.

:twisted: That and I could draw better than most of these lot 2 years ago. A couple of pics I even spotted aren't art, they're hacked up photos.

Trump is a well know Japanese artist, though you all have to realize that the 'fan' names we know them buy is not necessarily the names they go buy over there when they do work.

Were is your work posted anyway DA? Would like to see.

Question though I have is, if furry art and stuff causes so much offense to people, they why continue seeking it out (and especially seeking out the most disturbing). I've never once accidently ran across any of the sites that are normally posted here and only now know about them because of the posting. Isn't that sorta counter productive, drawing more attention to something that should receive any attention and to go seek it out when it goes against what you believe?

I don't like Hentai or however it's spelled, so I don't go looking for it, and I can't say that I've ever by accident ran across a site if I weren't actively looking for one.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

This is Shon Howell. A potentially good cartoony artist, but he's been trapped into furry fandom's orbit for too long and can't get out of it.

I think it would be safe to say that Western artists should not try to draw Eastern style art or apply it's influences, unless they're really good at it. Adam Warren seemed to do a reasonable job at it, from what I can remember of his art. Fred Perry and his ilk are fine examples of why it doesn't work.

How so? Perry seems to be very popular at many anime cons I've gone too, plus he seems to be selling a lot of stuff with his work on it lately. Perhaps those how are copying Fred that would be valid, but then think of it like that, they seem to be copying him for some reason so I guess to somebody out there he's doing something right. You don't get 2 dvds, tons of comics and reprints, t-shirts, and con GOH appearances for doing trash in a field like anime.

Chris Baird · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 78

You don't get 2 dvds, tons of comics and reprints, t-shirts, and con GOH appearances for doing trash in a field like anime.

I'd replace the word "anime" above with "the american doujinshi scene". ("It imitates decades-old manga styled artwork! It's in English! It's relatively cheap!")

Ethan A. Stanger · Rasophore Joined: 23 Oct 2003 Posts: 53

How so? Perry seems to be very popular at many anime cons I've gone too, plus he seems to be selling a lot of stuff with his work on it lately. Perhaps those how are copying Fred that would be valid, but then think of it like that, they seem to be copying him for some reason so I guess to somebody out there he's doing something right. You don't get 2 dvds, tons of comics and reprints, t-shirts, and con GOH appearances for doing trash in a field like anime.

Have you seen an issue of Gold Digger? That's some god awful art to say the least. He's probably not popular because of his art, but the things he does with it (sells it for cheap). Perhaps he's a really nice guy, which gives him "popularity" points.

Michael Hirtes · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 519

Heads up. Shon's acting like his typical shitheel self on the newsgroup again, so I decided to educate him about the existence of this thread on CYD. Expect him to come in and be a Mini-Me version of "Your Worst Nightmare" any moment now.

DA · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 320

Really? well if some major players over there haven't heard of this person, I'd say they are a legend in their own mind. Besides most people keep the same handle, too much effort to change especially for a japanese artist.

My artwork is not currently up, unlike a lot of people I do not race to post every little doodle to the net, when my portfolio is complete, I shall of course provide a link for everyone's amusment :wink: