Crush...Yiff...Destroy!

Acetaminophen · Recusant Joined: 07 Jul 2003 Posts: 7

In an effort to shed some possible light onto the psychological aspect of furries, I've decided to post my entire long, sordid, disgusting, poorly written, angst-filled history, hopefully detailing excatly -why- I'm so fucked up. Hopefully it just doesn't waste space. Anyway, you can feel free to stop reading now if you don't want to hear almost fan-fiction levels of angst. Additionally, I'm not doing this out of any kind of sensationalism. I have shame, you know. And a whole lot of guilt. And a whole lot more shame. And so on.

Anyway, backstory. In... well, what, 1998 or so my mother became deathly ill, my father divorced her, and I got sent to live with my birthmother (As only a true child of the nineties can do). Polly, my birthmother, had been correct in her original assumption, she cannot raise a child, as evidenced in her favorite sport, messing with my values. It was a grand time for me as a ten year old, staying up late, watching MTV and South Park, getting 'Duke Nukem 3D' for my birthday, and of course, the wonders of the internet. By wonders, of course, I mean tits. Your average kid is curious, and so was I. Well, that was just dandy as far as Polly was concerned, she gave no objection. By the time I was twelve and went back to my Father's home I was nearly as jaded as you folks are. Nearly. After that, I had the wonderous revelation of adolescence where it became more than just looking at naked women (Still of my own proper species at this point) and I swam to the very bottom of the cesspool. In my stay down there, I discovered the Jab Archives (The absolute epitome of everything that is wrong with the internet. Even Trent Reznor isn't as screwed up as these people), whereupon, low and behold, all the classics of my abruptly interrupted youth were torn down and desecrated. Whee. Eventually (Can anyone say 14?) I was smacked by the divine glove of insight. This was, no doubt, as low as I could sink. I had a bout of boycotting all pornography that didn't last too long, despite my 27 some-odd attempts. I'd been plastering myself with filth for too long to stop now. Eventually I did manage to cut all fetishes and all copywrited characters from my smut diet. However, I was amazingly dissatisfied with proper, normal porn. So, something ended up filling the gap, and that was, no cookie for guessing, furry pornography. I still try and exercise basic prinicples on the subject (No copywrited characters, nothing involving pain of any sort, keep it straight, absolutely no tentacles whatsoever) and have mild success at it. What's that make me? A god damned furvert. But here's the method to my madness.

Because the destruction of innocence that usually begins once you're a normal teenager, was in my case, brought on at an absurdly early age. And actively encouraged. So, the lines between what I had been doing (Watching your average saturday morning cartoons, and I always had liked the anthromorphs, in a perfectly innocent way until post-Polly life) and the new corruption became horribly distorted and mixed. This confusion, not childish enough to be dismissed as an adolescent, and not adult enough to be unobtainable, became a driving force between my other neurosis that I'd gotten from the whole sordid affair. As i mentioned in passing, I had always liked clean anthro art, and still do. But I became so polluted that my anthro appreciation overflowed into my sexual side. And I havn't been able to clear it out, either (I'm far too ashamed to talk to psychiatrists about it, even though they've undoubtedly treated worse).

What's the point I'm trying to make? The internet can fuck a child up really badly unless you put some effort into policing them. Because the seeds are there, but it takes a special kind of corruption to turn a perfectly nice Anthro into a Furry. Namely, prolonged, unchecked exposure to the bad side of the internet.

Mitch · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 290

Argh. That was a frightening and yet touching story, and thank you for sharing it with us. It seems you've become more or less completely desensitized by your too-early exposure to hard core material.

IMHO you should tell your psychiatrist (don't forget that they keep patients' disclosures confidential). Don't be embarrassed; the fact that you see it as a major problem means that he or she will treat it seriously. Honestly, they'll have heard far, far worse. It really is not all that bad compared to some of the things people get up to and then happily admit to their therapists.

As you say, this sort of thing happens gradually; it's a slippery, deadly slope, and before you know where you are you've "progressed" from harmless happy funny animals to multi-dicked hermtaurs putting the boots to My Little Pony.

See also this page

discojesus · Recusant Joined: 19 Jun 2003 Posts: 11

Let me tell you a story. When I was young, before I started masturbating, my dad gave me a little bit of fatherly advice. He said, "son, if you don't want your dick to grow crooked, you have to alternate hands."

I tried, I honestly did, but the right hand was never very good. And I thought, hey, if I use both hands at once, that's just as good as alternating, right? But soon enough, that right hand came off, and I became a left handed masturbator. But I went through a twelve-step program. I'm OK, don't worry about me.

But...my dick is crooked. Not horribly so, but just a little. For the longest time, I thought to myself, "shizapple, if only I'd alternated hands, I'd be straight as an arrow." Then it occurred to me, what if Dad was full of mistaken fatherly advice? What if my dick were just bound to be crooked, and the left hand just fits its natural direction better? That's the theory that I like, and the one that seems most reasonable.

While normally, I'd let the weight of this intense parable sink in, I'll break it down for you. You were probably destined for strangeness from the beginning, or at least from a very early age. Your theories for how you developed the way you are are almost certainly wrong; nobody really knows how sexual orientation comes about, furry or otherwise. All the theories I've ever read are utterly bogus.

So the big point? You're a furvert. Yeah, so are a lot of people. Some of them aren't psychotic. It doesn't make a big difference what you're into to anybody but yourself, and until you come to terms with what you enjoy, you're just going to be miserable. It doesn't matter whether you took the boat, the submarine or the hang glider, you're on the island of wackos, and you need to deal with it.

If you want to chat, that's fine. If you want to find some psychiatrist to tell you that you're crazy, that's fine - but in all likelihood, a psychiatrist will tell you to deal with it.

And honestly, no copyrighted characters? That just makes no sense. Bugs Bunny won't take it personally. Chill out.

Acetaminophen · Recusant Joined: 07 Jul 2003 Posts: 7

Responses for the both of you.

DiscoJesus- You got the font of bitterness wrong. I'm not unhappy with the fact that I'm a furvert, but am, in fact, exceptionally angry at the way that it came about. And while I might be wrong on the cause-and-effect table, the history is still true enough and, it seems to me, leads in an obvious pattern. I have put (Too much so, really) considerable thought into the matter, and maybe you're right in the 'Destined for strangeness' bit. But I'd still say I probably wouldn't have sunk as low into it as I did, were it not for the circumstances detailed above. Truth to tell, I don't really mind being a furvert that much. Except that I accept that it's mighty screwed-up. But having established that, I feel like I can move on. And even if I'm -on- the island of Wackos doesn't mean I have to beat them at limbo.

On the subject of copyrighted characters, here's my rant. Most famous furries are something you ran into as a kid, and have fond youthful memories of. Platonic memories. Example- No matter how hot your aunt is, you still wouldn't want to see naked pictures of her. Or maybe you would, I don't know you. I'm hoping against it. Back to the subject at hand- while Bugs bunny (Or more likely a female character, but any of them.) wouldn't object, it messes with your head. Or at least my head, and a good percentage of people I've run into (Furry Fandom included). Because no matter what anyone else says, you (Again, i'm assuming. But I feel condfident in my assumption.) aren't ever gonna be able to watch cartoons again and still respect yourself in the morning.

Mitch- You're most welcome, it was a load off my back. Additionally thank you for the link, it sums things up pretty well.

---

That'll do it. Thanks for reading and all that.

discojesus · Recusant Joined: 19 Jun 2003 Posts: 11

You got the font of bitterness wrong.

Ah, well. My font identification isn't what it used to be.

I don't know, I used to have my own process which I used to describe how my sexuality 'came about' to how it is now, but it's bull honkey. You seem to have this intensely negative association with most things sexual - that's how it comes off, at least. The bottom of the cesspool, and whatnot. I don't know, man, Polly sounds pretty cool - maybe your values needed to be toyed with. ;)

My fond childhood memories seem to be evaporating as we speak, so most of my associations there aren't so strong, at least not in that 'Platonic' way I'm hearing so much about these days. If it makes you feel dirty, fine, don't do it. But rationing yourself, restricting yourself when it comes to your fantasies? Roam free, dude. 'Tis a fantastic smut filled world, embrace, embrace.

But yiffy art haven't been traumatic for me - I don't feel dirty watching furry cartoons these days. But then, me and Polly would probably get along. I don't see why cute, innocent sexless furs cannot coexist in my twisted mind with porn. I mean, extend your situation past furry. You can still respect women even though you watch pornography (and fantasize about, say, your childhood friend who's now a full grown woman?), and still talk to them without feeling dirty. I don't really see why this has to be so different. Maybe it's time to reevaluate your assumptions? ;)

Nice sporks by the way. Keep the faith in alternative utensils.

"Jack be nimble, Jack be quick, Jack go un-da-neath da stick..."

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

I wouldnt say he was born messed up. An idea I learned in psychology.. socialization. You basically learn from your environment. In his case he had no one overseeing what that environment was. Of course, everyone interprets their environment in a different way, but it still plays a major factor in development.

Without boring you with the details, I went through a similar situation.
IMO, I think alot of the 'new age' furs kinda stumble upon the fandom in a similar fashion. Most of the ones I know discovered it in their adolescence/early teens. The time when puberty is kickin at full speed, and you've got those urges, and while you know what to do with em; you don't know how to go about gettin it. In comes the furs. A sexually charged lot, with a liking to cartoons. You're still pretty young, so you like cartoons.. theres your similar interests(clique, social circle, fandom, etc). Probably 98% of the furs will screw anything that'll let em, so theres the release for your urges you get. It's the easy path. I never hung out with furs very much in real life, despite enjoying anthromorphic art I really have nothing in common with most. (LAN party? please..).. But a common trend I did notice was that most of them seemed to have social hangups of one sort or another. Some to the point to where I honestly couldn't imagine them climbin in bed with someone were it not for the fandom.

Go and walk around a bit, read a paper, meet some people, and pay attention. Ever notice how obese people tend to hook up? Ever hear of two physically/mentally handicapped people having children? I have.
They say opposites attract, but when it comes to social dysfunction of one sort of another, I believe its quite the opposite.

I dont see the need for psychological help. It couldn't hurt you, but I dont view it as neccessary. If yiffy art is your fetish, and you dont like it, then by all means speak to a shrink about it. After all, homosexuality is considered a mental disorder if the person is unhappy with it. I'm sure the same could apply with furs.

*Behind enemy lines since 95 and they still aint caught me yet.*

discojesus · Recusant Joined: 19 Jun 2003 Posts: 11

So, let's assume the environment plays a big role. The fact of the matter his, he found furry all by himself. I mean, he doesn't fantasize about Cartman eating Duke Nukem's cock. He ended up a furvert. There's a plethora of things he could have ended up attracted to, but furry is a part of them, and South Park isn't. Given, there are plenty of other factors mixed up in there, but environment can only go so far. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

And with respect to obesity, there are plenty of obese people who <i>don't</i> want to hang out with obese people. And a lot of them don't. In the queer world, there is a fairly large community based on 'chubs', large men, and 'chasers', their less-than-large admirers.

If the environment were such a large determining factor, then one might expect furry to be considerably more popular than it presently is. I mean, kids like cartoons, kids get to the internet and find sexy cartoons, end of story, right? But still, the world isn't controlled by furries.

From what I understand, most socialization supposedly takes place at a pretty early age, way before puberty. We're talking about things like Freud here, right? The Oedipus complex runs its course pretty early on, if I'm not mistaken. Now, I don't believe in that nonsense, but I still think its highly unlikely that being exposed to furry boobs at age 11 would turn one into a furvert.

Homosexuality is a mental disorder if people are unhappy with it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't homosexuality taken out of the DSM with the fourth revision? What if I'm unhappy with being straight? Is that a mental disorder? Or unhappy with my parents, or unhappy with liking cheese, or unhappy with being allergic to dogs?

Nobody knows whether it's nature or nurture, it's not going to get solved in this forum, that's for damn sure. It's fruitless to even argue about it, let alone be pissed off because of how you think you got there. So...uhm... :D

Acetaminophen · Recusant Joined: 07 Jul 2003 Posts: 7

Well, mayhap the problem is that my specific reaction to things is, well, highly individualized. I'll give a shot at addressing most of the things ye brought up.

You seem to have this intensely negative association with most things sexual - that's how it comes off, at least.

About that, I don't have a problem with most things sexual. Most is going over 50%, and I'd say I'm more around only being negative about 35, 40 percent tops. And I wouldn't say intensely, but there are some things that come off as rather universally disgusting. Or not, as the internet probably proves. But here's the thing, I don't really have a problem with anyone else doing things I don't approve of, I just get a tad bit upset when -I- go against my own wishes. Or at least my superego's wishes, since that there part of my psyche seems to think it knows best. And it might. Mostly it's just a path-of-least resistance since i really don't feel like fighting with myself everytime I try and whack off, since it's supposedly a stress reliever. But then again, so are those little balls with sand in them, and I never once even pretended to understand those. Back on topic- I don't have a negative associations with your sexual kinks, just mine.

My fond childhood memories seem to be evaporating as we speak, so most of my associations there aren't so strong, at least not in that 'Platonic' way I'm hearing so much about these days.

Well, you and I are too far gone by now, probably. But for people who are less veterened of all the internet has to offer, it might screw around with them a lot more. It rather did with me, and I'm assuming here. So on that front, I object mostly for the sake of people who are... well, normal and better adjusted. For what that's worth, I find perfectly normal people rather comforting.

don't see why cute, innocent sexless furs cannot coexist in my twisted mind with porn.

Well, mostly they can. But here's my objection to copyrighted characters again, there's a big leap in switching between the two. If said childhood friend is still the same age as you were at the time, does fantasizing about them in a more adult way cloud your view of them as they are normally? I think it does. Can't rightly say. But otherwise, switching tracks between normal anthromorphic creatures (Ozy & Millie, for example.) and something completely different (Most people're familiar with Zig Zag, we'll use that example.) isn't half as difficult (Unless it's within a short period of time, I'm sure you'll concede to that) is they're not in any way connected.

Polly sounds pretty cool - maybe your values needed to be toyed with.

It's funny, you're not the first person to mention that. And I do admit I've enjoyed fringe benefits from having my head messed with, but that's still no excuse for people to mess with it. And even if my values did need shaking, it could've waited until adolescence, says I.

Go and walk around a bit, read a paper, meet some people, and pay attention.

Amazingly enough, I lead a social, active life. With a deep, brooding in-the-closet furriness, but hey, when life gives you lemons, paint them orange and hope no one notices. Or something. But my point is that I have 89% of my life outside of my own overexaggerated angst.

but I still think its highly unlikely that being exposed to furry boobs at age 11 would turn one into a furvert.

Truth to tell, neither do I. Five bucks says I'd end up as a furvert anyway, but I'd think as a slightly less messed up one.

I dont see the need for psychological help.

That particular nugget I'm getting for the guilt complex I also wound up with, so no direct connection to my furversions. But then again, it probably has a lot to do with my outlook on it. So, also including the next-to-last quote, the more well-adjusted furvert I would've become later wouldn't have a guilt problem to stunt 'im. Then everyone's happy. Still screwed up, but probably happy.

Nice sporks by the way. Keep the faith in alternative utensils.

Thankee Kindly, I plan to make an effort toward it. I'd say that sporks are probably only second to me on the annoying front, which explains why we get along so well.

---
That's it. You're free to go. Frolic! Jump and eat forever! Or at least get yerself some cheetos whil you're at it.

discojesus · Recusant Joined: 19 Jun 2003 Posts: 11

Mostly it's just a path-of-least resistance since i really don't feel like fighting with myself everytime I try and whack off, since it's supposedly a stress reliever.

I think we've probably all been there at some point in time, perhaps some of us still are. But you can't go through life being ashamed of what you get off on, it's dreadfully unfun, as I'm sure you've noticed. You should take steps to get over your guilt complex.

Maybe I just have it easy because I don't get grossed out very easily, I find...perhaps 1% of sexual practices disgusting. There isn't anything, from my standpoint, at least, that's inherently and universally disgusting. Normal and better adjusted is all just a matter of opinion.

And people who are generally considered "normal" probably are hiding something, and if they aren't, then they must be mighty boring. You take 'em, give me the deviants any day.

I think you'd probably be just as guilty about being a furvert however it came about. Then again, we'll never know. All that's left is to fucking get over it as soon as possible. It could help to meet people who you admire but also share your prurient interests; it made me a lot more comfortable with who I am. Of course, I'm not you, it could be totally different in your case.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

Heck!me ,I'm into women in rubber/leather/spandex/vinyl/and naked...so what do I Know?(Jer)

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

Heck!me ,I'm into women in rubber/leather/spandex/vinyl/and naked...so what do I Know?(Jer)

Aaaaand I gotta admit Jerry's early work in the fandom (especially things like "Rubber Duckies") turned on a fetish for me as well. Don't know where the hell it was lurking, but there it was. There's a lot of Bode in Jerry's work, though, and Bode had a similar effect on me with his "Cheech Wizard" and...dammit, I can't remember the NAME of it, except it ended with "bone" and had this picture of an Amazon babe blowing colored bubbles at the viewer. Man, did that turn me on.

Thing is, I got into furry fandom LONG before I ever developed a taste for any fetishes at all --- or, for that matter, anything overtly sexual. Pinups were about the limit for me, and not a lot of those either. I was extremely picky about my taste in art.

I got into furfandom via comic books, which in the late '80s never went beyond the occasional suggestive pose. In those days, Jerry's material was out on THE edge of furry perversions. The fact that his stuff is now considered rather tame is a telling point.

All that aside, it really bugs me to hear all these people talking about how they found furfandom via the PORN, and (understandably) making their first lasting impressions on that basis. It used to be you had to go to some substantial effort to find furry porn, or even serious erotica, and now it's just all over the place and even if you try to AVOID it, some jerk with a deadlinked website and no warning is managing to show you a hyena with multiple cocks raping a dead zebra. I mean, for Chrissake, people...

Genghis · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 186

It used to be you had to go to some substantial effort to find furry porn, or even serious erotica, and now it's just all over the place and even if you try to AVOID it, some jerk with a deadlinked website and no warning is managing to show you a hyena with multiple cocks raping a dead zebra. I mean, for Chrissake, people...

This is true. Check the "new art" page on VCL, for example - I defy you to get past page 2 before you hit a thumbnail featuring some sort of COLOSSAL ULTRA-PENIS OF DEATH or somesuch.
That said, I suppose that's what Yerf is good for - if you ignore the vast amounts of drama that's kicked off related to it...

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

This is true. Check the "new art" page on VCL, for example - I defy you to get past page 2 before you hit a thumbnail featuring some sort of COLOSSAL ULTRA-PENIS OF DEATH or somesuch.
That said, I suppose that's what Yerf is good for - if you ignore the vast amounts of drama that's kicked off related to it...

I totally ignore the Yerf drama. I have my own slot on there (www.yerf.com/malcscot), but have no interest in the various ongoing politics since they don't seem to actually affect the site itself at all anyways.

As for VCL...brr...yes, I have a slot on there, too (including my REALLY old art, which I keep around mainly as a gauge to note how much I've improved over the years), but I think the best thing they've come up with to date is Peganthyrus' filter. I regularly use it to mark out anyone whose art I don't want to see again. The problem is, you STILL have to SEE that first pic to know that you want to filter it out in the first place. Also, a given artist may do both sorts of work, porn and clean, and I WANT to see the clean stuff...-:?

I'd prefer if they introduced a ratings filter and required each member to categorize their material appropriately. That way I could filter out all the NC-17/X material and still see all the cool G/PG/R stuff.

DA · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 320

Pray tell what are you talking about? I've been at yerf for nearly a year now and I haven't noticed any politics.

On the other hand I've noticed loads of infighting at other places, like some 14 year old I've befriended because some idiot furry scribbler decided to bully him..I hate bullies...

Chris Baird · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 78

This is true. Check the "new art" page on VCL, for example - I defy you to get past page 2 before you hit a thumbnail featuring some sort of COLOSSAL ULTRA-PENIS OF DEATH or somesuch.
That said, I suppose that's what Yerf is good for - if you ignore the vast amounts of drama that's kicked off related to it...

The First Law of the VCL: A penis twice as big is four times as yiffy!!!1!
The Second of the VCL: A penis four times as big is sixteen times as yiffy!!!1!
The Third Law of the VCL: A penis eight times as big is... oohhoohhohhh I can't finish this sentence because I'm orgasming so hard just thinking about it!!!!
The Fourth Law of the VCL: teenage girls who want not to be nobodies should draw themselves as candy-raver sluts. (Also The First Law of the Artail Archives.)

:-/

Time for me to bitch about why I avoid Yerf: Michael Russell and his vanity characters. I seriously want to smash the guy's skull open for harrasing me about living with a girl outside marrage. >:( (I used to think of him as a friend back in the alt.toons scene, too... Ron Bauerle at least has the character not to try and choke you on his dogma.)

Computolio · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 349

Pray tell what are you talking about? I've been at yerf for nearly a year now and I haven't noticed any politics.

Do Keister and Hangdog ring a bell?

Both are among the elite few who have been banned from the Yerf newsgroup system. From what I've heard, Yerf's been a rather quiet and tame place, but occasionally amazing clashes will happen.

Mitch · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 290

Time for me to bitch about why I avoid Yerf: Michael Russell and his vanity characters. I seriously want to smash the guy's skull open for harrasing me about living with a girl outside marrage. >:( (I used to think of him as a friend back in the alt.toons scene, too... Ron Bauerle at least has the character not to try and choke you on his dogma.)

Wow. And also GOOD GRIEF. But... "vanity characters"??

Chris Baird · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 78

But... "vanity characters"??

Generally, they're the attempts-at-characters by non-artists with a lot of money to waste on commissions. Moreso if the 'creator' has to go out and pay people to write the stories for them as well.

For example: "Vicky the Fox"(r), "Cassie the Rock Vixen", Benard Doove's Chakats.

DA · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 320

Never heard of them or michael russell.

If they got banned from yerf though they musta done something real stupid, the moderators don't just hand out bans like confetti.

The New Meat · Coadjutor Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 327

Vanity characters? Are those like that skunk and squirrel couple that some guy has everyone draw? Shakira and..uh..smooshy or something?

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

This is true. Check the "new art" page on VCL, for example - I defy you to get past page 2 before you hit a thumbnail featuring some sort of COLOSSAL ULTRA-PENIS OF DEATH or somesuch.
That said, I suppose that's what Yerf is good for - if you ignore the vast amounts of drama that's kicked off related to it...

The First Law of the VCL: A penis twice as big is four times as yiffy!!!1!
The Second of the VCL: A penis four times as big is sixteen times as yiffy!!!1!
The Third Law of the VCL: A penis eight times as big is... oohhoohhohhh I can't finish this sentence because I'm orgasming so hard just thinking about it!!!!
The Fourth Law of the VCL: teenage girls who want not to be nobodies should draw themselves as candy-raver sluts. (Also The First Law of the Artail Archives.)

:-/

Time for me to bitch about why I avoid Yerf: Michael Russell and his vanity characters. I seriously want to smash the guy's skull open for harrasing me about living with a girl outside marrage. >:( (I used to think of him as a friend back in the alt.toons scene, too... Ron Bauerle at least has the character not to try and choke you on his dogma.)

Well, for most people furry art is about m/m wolf on wolf with gigantic organ rending members and female bunnies with breasts big enough that you could kill someone with them. I'll never understand the obsesion with massive penises/breasts. Furry art has seriously gone down the drain with all the "Yeah, well my character has a larger penis than yours! hah!"