Crush...Yiff...Destroy!

m_estrugo · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Nov 2003 Posts: 160

One of the things that amazes me about late furry fandom is the amount of inverosimile halfbreeds:in some cases, they look like the animal version of Frankenstein's monster, made of the pieces of utterly different species: lion heads, skunk tails (multiple in many cases), tiger paws and lots of wings, angelical or demonical.

Looks like it's the latest fad on the fandom: they may feels attracted towards more than a single animal species, and thus they mix them happily. It seems to be a sort of late fad, and it has little or no connection with the earlier furry fandom, nor with the popular culture on which furry fandom is based.

Trying to connect this fad with medieval bestiaries or other similar creatures isn't correct, as furry fandom is more an evolution of the "popular culture" anthropomorphized animals rather than a speculation about mythological creatures that were believed to exist on their time.

Anyway, what's the most bizarre halfbreed you have seen?

Khroan · Qualificator Joined: 29 Dec 2003 Posts: 37

A monkey octopus zebra tiger foxtaur with four angel wings and four bat wings, plus five tails.

Charisma · Coadjutor Joined: 03 Jan 2004 Posts: 158

A dragon-taur with eight human breasts, four arms and three tails

Rankin · Coadjutor Joined: 03 Jan 2004 Posts: 488

Anything from the wonderfully twisted mind of Kratsminsch. :wink:

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

Maybe they ran out of animals to draw so they decide to make up a few. :roll:

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

They're generally called chimeras and occassionally "daemons" unless they are true half-breeds. Folfs (FOx/woLF) are rather popular. This has actually been around for a good while to tell you the truth. This stems from the obsession many furs have with individuality. For some, a simple anthro isn't enough. They like to experiment. There are many artists who experiment with chimera as a simple exercise in creativity, often discovering new and unusual ways of making one muscle "work" with another. Building a good complex chimera, especially with taurs, can be hard work, often requiring one to restructure the entire anatomy of the animal to make one muscle, joint, etc. seem to work harmoniously with another. Some chimeras are kind of cool, others are lame, and some are freakish but have the redeeming value of being interesting concepts.

I hope this clears things up.

Genghis · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 186

Be that as it may, foxtaurs are still fucking stupid.

Charisma · Coadjutor Joined: 03 Jan 2004 Posts: 158

so we end up trying to be different from one another but still always end up being the same.

My first character was a vixen, before I really knew about the fandom and just how common that choice was. So now I'm trying to think of a new character for RP, but every species has been done it seems. So I decided to do my first mix (or half-breed). You're right though, it seems to take a bit of skill in designing a decent species from scratch

Wayd Wolf · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 456

They're generally called chimeras and occassionally "daemons" unless they are true half-breeds. Folfs (FOx/woLF) are rather popular. This has actually been around for a good while to tell you the truth. This stems from the obsession many furs have with individuality. For some, a simple anthro isn't enough. They like to experiment. There are many artists who experiment with chimera as a simple exercise in creativity, often discovering new and unusual ways of making one muscle "work" with another. Building a good complex chimera, especially with taurs, can be hard work, often requiring one to restructure the entire anatomy of the animal to make one muscle, joint, etc. seem to work harmoniously with another. Some chimeras are kind of cool, others are lame, and some are freakish but have the redeeming value of being interesting concepts.

I hope this clears things up.

Yeah, but it doesn't change the fact that it's generally practiced with a vengeance by those most stuck in furry fantasy land. A wolf, a fox, a lion, whatever isn't powerful enough so they gotta build it bigger, badder, and just plain stranger than the next. Like someone cheating at AD&D and changing their character stats at will whenever something challenges them. "Oh yeah, and I have this (insert magic weapon here) and my character also can do this (insert talent/skill here)."

(A dozen animal attributes, a schlong the size of an elephant's trunk, tits the size of small weather balloons, magical powers with no backstory to make them make sense, spiritual abilities, weird-ass color changing... Just go read K. Eric Drexler's Engines of Creation and settle on a nanotech lifeform that can change into anything and be done with it already.)

There's me the real person who just happens to be animalistic at times and then there's my character created for the sake of writing something interesting. I just happen to like wolves a lot. My net name was a literary reference and a quick way to get Netscape to work. I don't feel a need to throw in ten dozen augmentations to astound anyone. Self-deprecation when I wrote it in was a total alien concept. How many furs DON'T pump up their character? "OMG, Wayd's making fun of his own character openly. Why isn't he making his character a superhero or whatever?"

You know, in this same vein is the whole lifestyler kitsune thing where they keep adding tails to be more powerful than the next kitsune. How many mutant parts do you need to be happy with a simple freaking exercise in creative playtime?

Nah, if they want to impress people they should go out in the real world and leave furry behind until they can do it as nothing more than a minor hobby. Go work out and build some muscle. Get aerobically fit. Take up sports. Get some freaking fresh air OUTSIDE where birds don't have giant dicks and cats don't have tits like Dolly Parton.

Or if they must do the chimera thing, they could be a little more accurate to furry. Like an elephant-sloth-hyena-rat with a six-inch weiner that doesn't work unless they're getting boffed by some ninety foot foxtaur.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

I'm sure there are plenty of those, wolfy, and to be honest...sheesh, humans are vain by nature. That's why a lot of them spend hours at the gym trying to actually get that superhero bod, sometimes farting their hearts out of their asses from taking too many steroids or supplements (suppies are bad for you). Hell, where do you think novelists get their characters? Even those who make an effort to give their characters personal flaws often like to stretch believability a little. However, the furs I hang out with are generally either martial arts nuts (irl) or the intellectual breed. They already have outlets for their vanity just as you have yours.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

By the way, same nerd here. Have I mentioned that I happen to be fabulously good-looking? ;)

Wayd Wolf · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 456

I'm sure there are plenty of those, wolfy, and to be honest...sheesh, humans are vain by nature. That's why a lot of them spend hours at the gym trying to actually get that superhero bod, sometimes farting their hearts out of their asses from taking too many steroids or supplements (suppies are bad for you). Hell, where do you think novelists get their characters? Even those who make an effort to give their characters personal flaws often like to stretch believability a little. However, the furs I hang out with are generally either martial arts nuts (irl) or the intellectual breed. They already have outlets for their vanity just as you have yours.

Body-building, fitness, sports, these are things requiring actual WORK. Something ALIEN to most furries. I'm happier with a vain nineteen year old who can bench press Sven-Ole Thorsen and is so gorgeous straight guys would go the other way in a heartbeat for him. At least that person exists in the real world. He has to actually WORK at looking good and staying fit.

(As an aside, most male furs would look vastly better with just a little exercise, a little less face stuffing in front of FurryMUCK, and a change of wardrobe. Is it too much to ask them to stop wearing those twenty-sizes too big even for their overstuffed asses shorts? Sandals all the time? And olive drab boonie hats on anyone who didn't serve in the military is just wrong. Like black or red berets with any sort of pin. Yet I see them on furs all the time. It's like a spiked collar on a chihuahua.)

Now an out of shape furry stuck behind a keyboard who's at risk of his ass absorbing the chair he's sitting on... that's no hard work at all. Effort isn't involved.

BTW, I've run into enough of the martial arts freaks in furry and they don't impress me and shouldn't impress anyone else. There's a huge difference between passing the lessons and having skill which was illustrated to me when I took a course in Jukido and I was the only student who blocked every single shot from the instructor without an effort or even paying attention. His response was to become enraged and single me out for abuse until I got tired of and bored with the course.

Most of the martial arts freaks in furry are hung up on Highlander and AD&D and live in fantasy worlds. The sanest are the SCA-ers hoisting an ale in each hand.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

I've been doing the bodybuilding thing for several years now. Nothing intense for the most part, really. I just find it...pleasurable. Endorphin highs, I guess. My point was that these things both stem from vanity. As for the laziness...this isn't restricted to furs, but it does seem to be epidemic in the fandom. I don't really approve of it because, well, being that fat can't possibly be healthy. Being generous, about half the martial arts guys I know are actually serious about it, and for the rest it's just an interest of sorts. You know, they collect sharp and pointy things and such and that's about it, right? And then there are the ex-military types. Yeah, the fandom seems rife with them. Some of them are pretty hard. I know one guy who is ex-101st Airborne, and I know another who was in the Navy for a few years and has his sights set on joining the Marines as soon as he gets himself back in shape. I'm a pacifist, actually, for the simple reason that I don't like the idea of getting covered in bruises if I don't have to.

The ones who spend all of their time on the MUCKs...I don't know what to think of them. I mean, there's a point at which an obsession becomes unhealthy, you know? Hey, you think it's easy staying up the whole night on the MUCK and then dragging your fat ass to work in the morning? That's not laziness; it's self-mutilation. It's pure fucking psychological dependency. It's like life support. These guys REALLY need to get out more. Come to think of it, so do I. Perhaps I'll start a month-long hiatus from all that is Internet starting as soon as I go to bed tonight.

Umm...Wolf...I don't think that there is anything really that you've said that I particularly disagree with. Heh heh. It just seems we've had different experiences with our fellow furs. There aren't really all that many people I manage to hit it off with because unfortunately I find large rolls of fat intimidating and whiny attitudes too grating to tolerate for long, and I never go on the MUCKS, so I don't come in contact with the MUCK addicts often enough to really get to know many of them personally. I just tend to stick to my circle of friends most of the time.

Well, anyway, enough with the autobiography. It all boils down to the fact that most people I know who do the chimera thing don't really do it out of vanity. They just find the concept interesting. If I wanted a "tough" character, I would have been a rat. You just can't kill the bastards, and they can chew your ass to pieces when they have a mind to. I chose a dolphin because, well, I like the ocean, and I like to swim. It reflects my personality to an extent.

Anyway, ttyl

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

I took a course in Jukido and I was the only student who blocked every single shot from the instructor without an effort or even paying attention. His response was to become enraged and single me out for abuse until I got tired of and bored with the course.

I’m sure that’s the plot of a Karate Kid film.

Wayd Wolf · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 456

I took a course in Jukido and I was the only student who blocked every single shot from the instructor without an effort or even paying attention. His response was to become enraged and single me out for abuse until I got tired of and bored with the course.

I’m sure that’s the plot of a Karate Kid film.

No, it's the way many teachers react to students who are brighter than they give them credit for and instead of challenging them to their level of skill, become angry that the student isn't recognizing their leadership and respond negatively instead. Thankfully I've had a small handful of teachers in school and managers in my work life who weren't so blinded by their own egos and did challenge me. Those are the people you remember all the way.

This sort of thing is something that the furries need. Not to be written off as hopeless cases by us, much less by those who call themselves fellow furries. While so many cynically assume them to be incapable of behaving like good fellow citizens, I assume from the start that they can and have just never been properly held to standards.

While some believe that furry will inevitably collapse on itself of its own accord, they may be right. BUT, and this is a very big ass BUT, any attempt at any sort of organized anthropomorphics appreciative culture is only going to re-attract these same people and start the whole thing over again. If we leave them alive, they will come back to bother us.

So, given we can't kill them for reasons too numerous to mention, the other means of destroying them is changing them into something else. And people can rarely be changed solely by external forces. You have to encourage them to see the light relentlessly, kick their asses without ceasing the way a big brother kicks his snot-nosed kid brother around when he fucks up.

Or the way they used to before the big brother went away for five to ten on armed robbery and his little brother was expelled for trying to pimp his way through fifth grade. *sigh*

Anyhow, if we don't want to be thought of collectively as "more of them dog fuckers" in ten years when we stop by the comic shop, we gotta start turning the tide now. So we can either be those teachers who challenge their students or we can be those teachers who don't teach a damn thing.

(This isn't presumptive. We who are critical of furry are slowly growing in number and all skills in anthropomorphic arts and writing are not reserved to the furverts. We've got loads of skilled people right here on CYD never mind a huge chunk of all the ex-Burned Furs. We can either fight with each other while the furverts go on multiplying and seducing the weak-minded into their numbers or we can do various constructive things.)

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

Anyhow, if we don't want to be thought of collectively as "more of them dog fuckers" in ten years when we stop by the comic shop, we gotta start turning the tide now. So we can either be those teachers who challenge their students or we can be those teachers who don't teach a damn thing.

advocata nostra, illos tuos misericordes oculos ad nos converte!

(This isn't presumptive. We who are critical of furry are slowly growing in number and all skills in anthropomorphic arts and writing are not reserved to the furverts. We've got loads of skilled people right here on CYD never mind a huge chunk of all the ex-Burned Furs. We can either fight with each other while the furverts go on multiplying and seducing the weak-minded into their numbers or we can do various constructive things.)

Since mouthwash often has alcohol in it, Can you get drunk on it etc?

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

I'm somewhat in agreement, Wolf, but I don't like the way you phrase it. Let's call it "constructive ass-kicking" from now on, shall we? I think this more clearly illustrates the good intentions behind it, and besides, it's more catchy. You have to be careful how you market this idea to the Fandom. Yes, if you want the idea to really take root in the fandom and not become some angry fringe like the Burned Furs fiasco, you have to carefully market the idea. Also, I wouldn't attack the erotica too much for the simple reason that you'll probably get your ass laughed at, I don't care how good you are at martial arts. Furs and just about every other sensible person on the planet like erotica, and I don't think you're likely to change that.

Well, I'm heading out for a while. Find something to laugh about soon, for your sake, for everyone's sake, and I'll see you later.

Wayd Wolf · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 456

I'm somewhat in agreement, Wolf, but I don't like the way you phrase it. Let's call it "constructive ass-kicking" from now on, shall we? I think this more clearly illustrates the good intentions behind it, and besides, it's more catchy. You have to be careful how you market this idea to the Fandom. Yes, if you want the idea to really take root in the fandom and not become some angry fringe like the Burned Furs fiasco, you have to carefully market the idea. Also, I wouldn't attack the erotica too much for the simple reason that you'll probably get your ass laughed at, I don't care how good you are at martial arts. Furs and just about every other sensible person on the planet like erotica, and I don't think you're likely to change that.

Well, I'm heading out for a while. Find something to laugh about soon, for your sake, for everyone's sake, and I'll see you later.

Erotica isn't what is being attacked by me. What is being attacked is the total pathological obsessive-compulsive nature of it in furry. Sex would be fucking. Erotic would be passionate love-making. Kinky would be giving the girl a crotchless panty and bustier set and doing it on the hotel room balcony. A fetish would be doing the kink(whatever it is) all the time as your bread and butter of your sexuality. Furry blows right past all that at Warp 9.95 straight into lunatic unhealthiness.

And then? Well look around. It's been redefined as "normality" for the fandom. When you redefine deviancy downward every time, these people have to eventually do something even worse to get a rise out of themselves and others. (Does anyone remember when Winger's excesses were actually still fairly shocking? Now it's become almost mainstream. Heck, Cub Central and worse is quietly accepted as no big deal. How far do furry miscreants have to take things for this to no longer get a pass?) One thing leads to another and another.

No, not for everyone. But far too many. And furrydumb's prediliction for having minds so open that brains fall out where nothing is forbidden shelters all of it and insures anyone who is a fan of anything from TMNT to Road Rovers to even werewolf horror movies is lumped right in together with the deviants and that's not helping anyone. No, I don't have illusions about that changing soon. Loaded to MTV to CSI and what's yet to come have seen to that. But if I don't at least try, can I sit back and expect anyone else to?

I'm not sure where you get this idea that how good you are at martial arts matters. I was referring to the difference between rote learning and skill as well as the tendency to miss the point and not respond appropriately. (Not to mention the fact that most furries who claim to be martial artists only think think they know what fighting is about. Fighting is about pain, suffering, maiming, killing; the usual things of the jungle and animals and you'd think furries of all people might get that survival of the fittest thing. It's not pleasant, should not be thought of as such, and isn't anything to be proud of. You might win, you might lose. Should one really risk serious injury or death for transitory ego's sake? Furries seem to think that life is a movie. It isn't. Your average city emergency room nurse could very clearly show you this on any given Saturday night.)

If furry was about round-robin fighting the dipshits and asswipes would be recuperating in hospitals to this day because a good number of very competent people who've left the fandom a long time since would've beaten them down in the first place. They were far more civilized than the pricks who've driven them away in disgust. But don't think emotions still aren't running high out there and a goodly number of people still smarting at their beloved hobby being turned into a fetish playground.

(Mark Merlino was simply the most "all at once" of furrydumb's enablers. We've got a couple hundred like him ready and willing to welcome to furry any and all sick fucks who find their way down into furry Hell. If you have a fetish, no matter how horrific, chances are there's a dozen plus furs ready to help you wrap it in furriness and make it fit in their empty minds.)

Marketing? Yeah, it does need to be marketed. But you need to remember that you're not trying to get sucked into their end of the sewer, you're trying to pull them back out the storm drain to the street. There's a fine line. My tactic is to take note of their real desires and dangle them in front of their noses. YMMV.

What would you do? I can't see where merciless pummeling from a small force of critics has achieved anything yet. I also don't see going along to get along as having worked either. The only thing I can see is for enough people to produce enough good work to get their attention, and steadfastly hold them to standards and never ever give in to their protestations and feed their sick minds with what they lust for openly.

Anyone think that we can ever get enough really good and notable artists to pledge publicly that they never ever will take commisions for a list of extreme and unhealthy subject matter? I can say without fear of changing my mind ever that there is no way in any land of Hell that I will ever ever write in any sick crap for their amusement. But writing isn't what gets the notice. Artwork does.

(And we're definitely stretching the spirit of the word "art" in all this...)

That's pretty much all I have to say on this for now. I have a lot of graphics and web study to do if I'm going to publish my writings on my website again. Strictly for the sake of creative exercise and not to please the furry freaks.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

Chill out dude. It's ink and paper. I can see someone disapproving of this stuff, but try to keep your head on straight. So far I've tried listening to what you have to say, but now you're suddenly flipping out. Please don't put me in the position of having to defend the crap to get your quirky ass to calm down. I don't want to defend it. I just want you to relax, maybe have some sense of proportion. I don't want you to be all uptight, man.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

And personally...I don't give a shit about what anyone who watch MTV or CSI think. In fact, I think they are collectively in need of a bullet in the brain.

Good night.

Tailgunner · Coadjutor Joined: 28 Oct 2003 Posts: 161

^^^

I like this guy already!

Beaupepys · Recusant Joined: 01 Nov 2003 Posts: 1

^^^

I like this guy already!

You and me both. Enough that I'm finally de-lurking after however many months.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

And personally...I don't give a shit about what anyone who watch MTV or CSI think. In fact, I think they are collectively in need of a bullet in the brain.

Good night.

Well that's the media for you, spends most of it's time looking for the freakshow aspects of just about anything, it's the "sensation" of the week syndrom. This week it's furries next week it's it's something else, and it never ends. And is mostly forgotton about as the masses look for something new to freak out over, or condem.

Later

IceCat

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

"constructive ass-kicking"

Oxymoron.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

"constructive ass-kicking"

Oxymoron.

Precisely, which is what makes it funny, therefore catchy.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

^^^

I like this guy already!

Thank you ^^

I know it's probably bad form to give people a free pass, but I just don't have it in me to dislike someone who shares my liking for Iron Maiden and my dislike for sell-out central MTV.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

"constructive ass-kicking"

Oxymoron.

Precisely, which is what makes it funny, therefore catchy.

Drift Nets are catchy.
Oxymorons are oxymoronic.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

It was a joke. Get over it.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

"Constructive ass-kicking"
That must be what you call it when cops beat the crap out of some perp for resisting arrest. I like it!

Tailgunner · Coadjutor Joined: 28 Oct 2003 Posts: 161

^^^
That was me BTW.

bobby · Rasophore Joined: 27 Oct 2003 Posts: 70

Anything from the wonderfully twisted mind of Kratsminsch. :wink:

Ahhahah. Dude, he lives in my city. I've met him a couple times. He's quite mentally ill, unfortunately (and literally, he's on disability due to being unable to work because of mental illness).

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

It was a joke. Get over it.

But it seems to have entangled me in it’s catchy folds…

Paul · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Feb 2004 Posts: 138

What would you do? I can't see where merciless pummeling from a small force of critics has achieved anything yet. I also don't see going along to get along as having worked either. The only thing I can see is for enough people to produce enough good work to get their attention, and steadfastly hold them to standards and never ever give in to their protestations and feed their sick minds with what they lust for openly.

Anyone think that we can ever get enough really good and notable artists to pledge publicly that they never ever will take commisions for a list of extreme and unhealthy subject matter? I can say without fear of changing my mind ever that there is no way in any land of Hell that I will ever ever write in any sick crap for their amusement. But writing isn't what gets the notice. Artwork does.

I agree that making quality artwork is the only way to avoid getting the furvert label stuck on everybody who just appreciates "anthro" (for lack of a better word) art. I don't think it'll make the furries wise up, though. After all, there IS a lot of perfectly good "anthro" art out there, made by people who aren't furries, and appreciated by literally millions of people who aren't furries, either. This hasn't prevented the furverts from appropriating the material and using, say, Tiny Toons cartoons as an offset for pedo fuckfest fan pics. The term "furry" seems to equal "pervert" for good, and the rest of us are probably better off just disassociating ourselves from it while still making "anthro" art if we want to. Keeping high standards is an excellent idea, of course, but I see how easy it is for some talented new-comer to get sucked into the furry cesspool (see Dogthing's tale of terror over in this thread).

m_estrugo · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Nov 2003 Posts: 160

Hence why I've decided to disassociate from furry fandom. Officially, my interests differ from theirs. And, inter nos, the reasons are those Paul has pointed out. :)