Crush...Yiff...Destroy!

verix · Posted: 7/17/2003 3:40:23 AM Post subject: Yay! I've run into BURNED FURS!

First of all, let me say that I love this site and I love these forums for exposing the crap in the fandom, rather than trying to cover it up with "OH, LOOK, JAYFOX IS SITTING IN A FOREST WITH A FUCKING RAINBOW GOING ACROSS THE TOP!"

Remember this? You thought they were dead? Well, baby, you were wrong. The ideals, and the systems, and everything you once knew about the Burned Fur movement... is back...WITH AVENGANCE, if I may add.

Anyways, since we all know the "Burned Fur" fiasco that was created, I'm sure that most of you have shunned them from any kind of existence whatsoever. It's a lot like the way people react to furries. "No way... people who like human-animals? People who like to have sex with plushies? People who like to have sex with... animals?! Not possible!" Though I'm probably not being completely fair with lumping furries in with plushophiles and zoophiles, and vice-versa, it happens. In this writ, I'm going to explain why Burned Furs get on my fucking nerves.

Now, I'm not just basing this all on the fact that I read that article, met up with the bandwaggon, and said "sup guys, these people sure are faggots, am i rite???" Oh no. I've actually met and talked to Burned Furs. And man, they are down right annoying like you wouldn't believe.

One of the few burned furs I've met, for privacy's sake, we'll name "Macduff," probably epitomizes every single burned fur I've ever met. This guy has stuck in my memory, and probably will stay in my memory, for ages to come. It all started out when he started posting in (yet another) furry thread on the Something Awful forums. It was about some door-to-door Jehova's Witnesses Furries who believed that they needed to spread the "religion" of furryfandom to the homes of the unsuspecting in North Carolina. Oh, joy, what we need now are more "Annoying Points" for having a goddamn furry knock on my door, telling me how much he really does have a spirtual connection with his pet parakeet. Great, as if MTV and BBC weren't enough to tell people about furries, we have ACTUAL furries, spreading the "good" word. I don't go for that. But, hey, I'm not going to classify myself into a subgenre of a genre that's pretty stupid to begin with just because. Alas, I disgress.

Anyway, back to the Something Awful forums incident. "Macduff" quoted a few snipets from this user's post, and started to (sarcastically... I think) say it was rather rude of her to slam the door on them as soon as she found out that they were furry. His views were that it was fine to show that you actually care and love for a pet, and that you don't have to have sex with it to prove so. Now, Something Awful is equipped with something called "sarcasm tags," which globally (across the forum, anyway) denote sarcasm. You don't particularly need sarcasm tags to note sarcasm, but it's helpful for the gullible. However, this all diminished, when I saw his signature. BAM! "Member of the Burned Fur army." At about this time, some gears were running through inside of my head. "Attention headquarters, proceed with caution, there is a possibility of an eruption of: whining, anger, and angst ahead. I repeat, proceed with caution." As I finished thinking this, "Macduff"'s post was then quoted by another user, who we will call "Mr. Bob" who explained, quote, "I see nothing wrong with loving and taking good care of your pets. I see something terribly wrong with calling yourself a 'furry' because of it." Well, by crackey, this just got him all flustered up! Clearly, this was an attack on him being a burned fur! So, quickly, and with much wit on his side, he yelled at "Mr. Bob" for not appreciating the fact that he was a burned fur, and NOT a furry (BECAUSE GOD DAMN IT FUCK THOSE GUYS I AM NOT THEM)! A quick personal attack, a quick block of defense, and that thread went down the drain faster than you can say "Roto-Rooter."

Enter IRC and FurNet, a popular medium for furries to meet, even though it's a warzone for a few infamous users that we won't mention for the sake that they're goddamn attention whores. He joins a channel I'm in, so I say, "hey, Macduff, you're a burned fur, aren't you?" If I recall correctly (don't take my word on this), he said something along the lines of, "yeah, why?" I told him that burned furs annoy the goddamn mothershit out of me, that's why. This pissed him off, and he started going into his whole burned fur defense, all flustered out, and kept on talking. Well, I couldn't really believe this. This guy couldn't be for real, is he really this fucking thick, this much of an asshole, and this annoying? Nope. So I called him a gimmick. Now, this must have REALLY pissed him off (now you can take my word on it), because the first thing I got was a whole-hearty "fuck you" and yet another statement saying that I'm trying to push my beliefs on him, and trying to ruin things he likes, and whatever he could put out so that he could look like a macrofur or something. After this, he started talking to me about my fetishes (huh?) and how much of a furry I am (???), what's the most perverted thing I've done in a TS situation (WHAT THE FUCK), as if this had any merit to what the hell was going on. Words fly, and we eventually get to the motherload. "Macduff" admits to being insane. Oh, okay, that explains everything. Now we move on forever, to never mention "Macduff" ever again. Remember now, this is just ONE experience I recall having with a public "burned fur."

So, with this experience, and many others I've had, I can deduct these things about "Burned Furs":

They're annoying. They annoy the crap out of me. Maybe not you, but most definetly me.

They get more defensive about their beliefs than a regular furry. It's understandable, but stupid. It's stupid because they're not JUST furry, they're a "burned" furry, since they're not at all like a "regular" furry. Funny how a "burned fur" is just as prejudiced as a "non"furry can be sometimes, however...

They whine. Oh, baby, do they whine. You know Linkin Park? "One Step Closer?" Fuck that band, Burned Furs were the first people to write lyrics for them. Baby, babies ain't got NOTHING on these guys. They whine three times more than a regular furry would. "HEY! I'M NOT A FURRY! I'M A BURNED FUR! GET IT RIGHT, ASSHOLE!" No. You're a furry. You're in the same bandwaggon. Shut up and stop trying to be that Goth that hates everything popular.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I hate the Burned Fur movement.

COMING UP NEXT TIME!: Furry snuff porn. My opinon? WHY DOES IT EXIST????? AAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGHGHHHHh!!

Jerry Collins · Posted: 7/17/2003 5:13:48 AM Post subject: previous

Yer preachin' to th' choir Rev'!tell this old batter'd war horse somethin' 'e don't know!awwwwr billie (sorry,I was temporarily possesed by the ghost of Robert Newton!)(Jer)

The New Meat · Posted: 7/17/2003 5:26:08 AM Post subject:

Verix: He admitted to being insane, what? He actually came out and said, "Everything I've said makes sense because I'm insane?"

Jerry: What?

Jerry Collins · Posted: 7/17/2003 5:32:17 AM Post subject: previous

To:New meat;....."And your point is?"...Me? UNBALANCED???uh..here's a hint,Look at this web site,ask yourself "Self,what is this web site about?"and if you still can't figure that one out,GOD BLESS YA' ANYWAY!(Jer)

mouse · Posted: 7/17/2003 5:54:39 AM Post subject:

i was never around for the burned furs, so i never met any
so i cant agree or disagree with you there

where i figured it all went wrong is how they basically went after everyone at once

if they really wanted to succeed , they should have whittled away the more extreme elements , instead of just bursting outta nowhere blasting the shit out of anyone and turning everyone against them (even though i agreed with most of manifesto when i read it)
get rid of the extreme elements the reverse of the way they showed up

they showed up by testing the water and seen everyone wanted to be real accepting. so to get rid of em, politly and firmly let them know thier behaviour aint welcome there , and thier gonna have to leave. sorry guys, parties over..

i just couldnt understand why squeerat attacked vegans right at the end ? of all the people to bitch about, veganism pales in comparison

i know alot of people are under the impression vegans get up in anyones face for eating meat etc etc, ive never seen it. ya sometimes they have protests or try to encourage awareness of an issue , but so fucking what, chill out. most of that shit people get upset about vegans supposedly doing exists only in the world of stand up comics. (stand up comic ASSHOLES)

(im not a vegan, but i am a pretty casual vegetarian...so her comments razzed me. im not SUPER-strict with myself and ive never once said a word to others. my main consumption is pop and cigarettes anyhow)

better to have skinny vegan furries than a bunch of fat bastards
cuz lets face the facts here, if your fat, thats all it takes, anything wrong with you will be viewed as at least 2x as bad now.

since im on kind of the same subject, why you guys hate the goth furs so much... i kind of like goth girls , and besides, i think the goth fur is the last vestige of hope. they listen to cool music (well in a manner of speaking), they have interests outside the fandom usually. they dont act so....gay? (not meant in a deragatory manner of course)

hang out with a bunch of pale skinny kids , thinking about pain, and dying , discussing the abyss, listening to weird german industrial music

or getting hugged and molested by fat nerds

your choice

Jerry Collins · Posted: 7/17/2003 6:20:06 AM Post subject: to mouse

All I got to say bro' is "thank god for Frank Zappa and the Ramones!"(and G.B.H.,D.R.I,Anti-heros,Agnostic front,TheSpecials,JimmyCliff,Bootsy,Geo.Clinton,KISS,X.T.C.,The Cheiftans,the Pogues,the Cramps,DEVO,MAN-O-WAR,The Bog Men,anybody I miss?)I found more solace in music(yeah,Ilike classical too!)than in fandom..better to hang with your real buds,than put up with a bunch of butt wipes!good music and friends v.s. being with a bunch of jerks..Hmmm,you guys do the math.(Jer)

verix · Posted: 7/17/2003 6:29:17 AM Post subject:

Verix: He admitted to being insane, what? He actually came out and said, "Everything I've said makes sense because I'm insane?"

Yes. In the middle of the conversation, he said "okay, I'll admit, I'm insane." Since I don't know how to respond to that, I just replied with "k." This aparently made it seem like I was just disregarding the fact, so quickly, he says "I'M INSANE!" That's about the time I just stopped talking to this poor sap.

Yer preachin' to th' choir Rev'!tell this old batter'd war horse somethin' 'e don't know!awwwwr billie (sorry,I was temporarily possesed by the ghost of Robert Newton!)(Jer)

what

since im on kind of the same subject, why you guys hate the goth furs so much... i kind of like goth girls , and besides, i think the goth fur is the last vestige of hope. they listen to cool music (well in a manner of speaking), they have interests outside the fandom usually. they dont act so....gay? (not meant in a deragatory manner of course)

Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't hate Goths. That was just a parallel. In fact, the way I act, the way I talk, the way I'm so goddamn cynnical, and the way I dress (all black) usually targets me as a Goth. I mean, sure, I like Goth and a lot of the things it represents. Like the clothing, the music, et all. I also find the way some people dress up in Goth clothing as attractive. It's just some of the Goth people, the way they act, mope, and everything else, that gets on my nerves. Also, it's my personal belief that SqueeRat is a troll, and the sole purpose of that "Furry Manifesto" was just to piss people off. She's like the Anal Cunt (GIYO) of the fandom, except she doesn't make music.

At this point and time, I would like to state that I have no fucking clue what Jerry Collins is talking about.

mouse · Posted: 7/17/2003 7:28:08 AM Post subject:

All I got to say bro' is "thank god for Frank Zappa and the Ramones!"(and G.B.H.,D.R.I,Anti-heros,Agnostic front,TheSpecials,JimmyCliff,Bootsy,Geo.Clinton,KISS,X.T.C.,The Cheiftans,the Pogues,the Cramps,DEVO,MAN-O-WAR,The Bog Men,anybody I miss?)I found more solace in music(yeah,Ilike classical too!)than in fandom..better to hang with your real buds,than put up with a bunch of butt wipes!good music and friends v.s. being with a bunch of jerks..Hmmm,you guys do the math.(Jer)

i know someone you missed, you may disagree with me on this one i dunno
but its a group that very recently i actually bought thier cd, i shoudl have been listening to them for years, its not like i havent known about them

operation ivy

some of thier songs kind of dates itself because it was refering to stuff that was going on in the music scene at the time , but alot of its still relevant
tracks like vulnerability, freeze up (same shit different decade)
they really did have a great message to get out to everyone

it seems to me shows nowadays are pretty diverse, and everyones really cool, ive never had any type of trouble. shows with victory bands stand out

ive never been, but a friend was telling me shelter has the some of the weirdest shows because you have regular hardcore/punk kids there, and also hare krishna kids that just sit on the floor ( i guess the guys in shelter are hare krishnas. i havent heard to much by them what i have heard was good...)

btw
the specials....hell yes!!excellent choice

on the other hand KISS and MAN-O-WAR...im gonna have to stongly disagree with you there (mainly just with KISS), nothing personal

Verix: (sorry verix i original wrote new meat there)
yeah, well when i said hate, that was probably the wrong word. i know exactly where u coming from. the only bar or club i would go to on a regular basis in town , is what is basically a goth hangout , wed always joke around about it. (like if you went in there and stabbed someone with an oak stake in thier heart it would look like something out of a bad horror movie , strobe lights, vampire fangs and gothic dance music and whatnot)

what i was mainly getting at was , imho, the "big pants" and "goth" factions (would you call them factions?) in furry, make me think that there may be hope yet
(i like those characters with big pants and 20 piercings in thier big ears!!! dammit!)

ANAL CUNT LOL
where were they from again?

Jerry Collins · Posted: 7/17/2003 8:16:46 AM Post subject:

EEEK!Dear "BOB"! If everybody liked the same thing ,the world would truly suck!so you don't like what I do ?Big deal!That doesn't lessen either of us ,so, it's cool.Kiss is dopey,but fun!Man-O-War,what can I say?I like Klingon "Gospel" music and/ or Nosgothic Ballads.Like the Hillbillies in that one Betty Boop cartoon said "Who cares?Who cares?"So ,just sit back,pop in a tape or c.d. of your faves and enjoy!(cripes,I still have vinyl l.p.s fer cryin' out loud!)later on(Jer)p.s. haven't heard Operation Ivy yet,the locals are still trying to figure out Venus Hum!Jeeze!p.p.s. to tell you the truth,Boy George Still scares the Hell out of me !

mouse · Posted: 7/17/2003 9:01:23 AM Post subject:

ya ya , i know,
i just have a tendancy that if i agree with someone, ill quickly point any difference that exists i dunno why

anyway op ivy

http://www.operationivy.com

they are long gone

they were only aroudn like 2 years
(87-89 i looked it up just now)

tim armstrong of rancid used to be in the band

nothign wrong with vinyl records, they still make them, brand new ...i got lps that came out last year
im looking for a cheap marantz 6300 turntable right now to go with my 2270 reciever
(they are on ebay all the time)

Jerry Collins · Posted: 7/17/2003 4:49:55 PM Post subject:

The last place I saw a regular stereo turntable was in a brookstone catlogue and a hip-hop music supply place for scratch sessions,both were high for my budget ($150.00 at the lowest price) 'cheaper to wait(jer)

The New Meat · Posted: 7/17/2003 7:11:07 PM Post subject: Re: previous

To:New meat;....."And your point is?"...Me? UNBALANCED???uh..here's a hint,Look at this web site,ask yourself "Self,what is this web site about?"and if you still can't figure that one out,GOD BLESS YA' ANYWAY!(Jer)

What website? This website? The one we're posting on? CYD?

Ah, yes, Zappa and The Pogues, both excellent bands. Especially Zappa, but I guess that's kind of obvious seeing as how my tagline comes from a Zappa song.

verix · Posted: 7/17/2003 11:01:51 PM Post subject:

what i was mainly getting at was , imho, the "big pants" and "goth" factions (would you call them factions?) in furry, make me think that there may be hope yet
(i like those characters with big pants and 20 piercings in thier big ears!!! dammit!)

ANAL CUNT LOL
where were they from again?

These two paragraphs suddenly reminded me of the song, "Big Pants, Big Loser."

I like those characters, too. It's just the actual moping, angsty, "OH MY GOD THE WORLD SUCKS" goth, regardless of furry or not, that gets on my nerves. However, if they want to tell me how yiffy they are, while at teh same time maintaining these values, that's the kind of "furry" that gets on my nerves.

I guess you would classify "Goth Furry" as a sub-genre of the fandom, which is probably a lot like the same classification as "Burned Fur" should go in.

Also, how the hell did my thread go from burned furs to punk rock?

Jerry Collins · Posted: 7/17/2003 11:10:00 PM Post subject: mo'muzik

Thenk yew! Ah ,another hunter of mudsharks!welcome brother!May flights of Mammy-nuns see thee to thy local liquor store!..rock trivia time!: What anime inspired bishonen glam rock star started out a a pretty pirate,and ended up looking like Ade Edmunson's Eddy Elizebeth Hitler character?

is it: (a)Mick Jagger
(b)Steve Nicks
(c)Pete Townsend
(d)Jerry Collins
(e)Adam Ant
send your answers in now and you may win a round trip ticket on the luxury airship "DER HINDENBURG"

mouse · Posted: 7/18/2003 5:04:29 AM Post subject:

jerry im gonna guess E , but i dont knwo what a mudshark is and i dont really understand the question

i have an admission
this isnt easy to talk about...and...i hope u guys understand...
...i ..uh
I WEAR BIG PANTS

actually what i wear is what i come to call SQUARE PANTS - similar to sponge bob

or you can consider them MATH PANTS
32lx32w, where 1/2 x circumfirence of both ankles added together is = waist = length

bullheads do this nicely, so does jnco once in a while
so did ZoNZ, till they dissapeared

needless to say, my boots SHINE
(for those who dont know...when u walk wearing your big pants...it buffs your shoes) i think the big pants artists on yerf need more characters with super-shined boots, if they gonna be wearign those big pants

Jerry Collins · Posted: 7/18/2003 5:33:27 AM Post subject: okay...

A mudshark is one of the many varmits that inhabit the universe of St.Frankof Zappa's ..it's nothing really,just me being an idiot!uh Verix: the "anal cunt" thing is somebody else's thingy..just a f.y.i.,nothing important.just trying to keep it on the up and up.Re:mudshark..in I think "2000 motels" or the" weasles ripped my flesh"( I am not at all sure)album they are mentioned as a favourite of roadies and sound engineers"jus' go to the dock n' let down yo' line" basicly a sentient ,thoothless shark/lungfish that feeds off "funk&spunk,from sad chumps who couldn't get a hooker".(I'm not sayin' that's your bag,I was just being a goof)as to the Mammy nuns.theyr'e from the "Thingfish" series( big.bad ass,indestructable beings,mostly female{some herm.s}with"Lips like a duck,head like a potato!" a fierce band of mutant warriors.well ,that's it .I hope I cleared that up(Jer)

Anonymous · Posted: 8/6/2003 8:57:53 AM Post subject:

Oy gevalt.

I'm a Burned Fur, and I think this guy was over the top. Oh yeah, and I'm also a Furry. Since '91, late '80s if you want to push it. The two were never mutually exclusive, and we never had an "army" (not even in Eric Blumrich's wettest dreams).

*sigh* Y'know, there have to be about as many opinions of what Burned Fur was as there are kibitzers. Here's the scoop:

IT WASN'T JACK.

That's right. Beyond the various screeds of Trotman and Blumrich, there just wasn't much of anything going on aside from communal griping about the state of the fandom. There wasn't even any kind of consensus on "what should be done", or how to go about doing it. I, for example, suggested a small publishing line aimed at turning out quality furry work of a non-sexual nature. This fell flat not because anyone had problems with the idea, but simply because it would have required WORK to make it happen.

Yelling and screaming and carrying on cost nothing, you see. And both Eric and Charla were very good at those.

Problem was, the movement began falling apart almost as soon as it coalesced, because of Eric and Charla. Most of the points that they made were spot-on-target and highly relevant, but laden with rhetorical spewing that made their screeds impossible to defend.

And that is exactly why Burned Fur fell apart: anyone who identified themselves as a BF was made to defend those screeds. We were not ALLOWED to disagree with the points or style Eric put forth --- any time we differed with Eric, we were accused of "backpedaling", as though we'd signed some kind of blood oath to the Manifesto.

Eventually, most of the BFs just got sick and tired of beating their heads against the proverbial brick wall and dropped out of the group. Many dropped partially or entirely out of furfandom. These were the moderates. Left behind were the extremists, who themselves went so far in promoting anti-gay attitudes in general that even Blumrich and Trotman finally bailed out.

So why do I call myself a Burned Fur if I don't agree with all these people? Because of the original point of the group: many friends, as well as people I greatly admire, were burned by stupid people doing stupid things and then screaming when someone told them they shouldn't continue doing those stupid things.

I don't, in fact, hate lifestylers. I am one. What I hate is extremist activists from either side of the fence, who insist on fouling the nest to their own tastes. I am, and have always been, an idealist, and ideas and facts are what I hew to --- not the popular opinion du jour. Hence I am a Burned Fur, simply because I recognize what's happened to the fandom, and I am angry about it. As a favorite protagonist of mine once said, "I'm more a hostage to truth."

There is nothing inherently wrong with most fetishes (yes, I DO draw the line at bestiality). But like everything else that goes on in the bedroom, it is the business of the fetishist, perhaps those of like mindset, and NO ONE ELSE. Your average convention-goer does NOT need to know that you like wearing bondage gear and being led around on a leash.

Yet, if you point this out, you are "intolerant" and therefore The Enemy. Most BFs were in fact tolerant of various lifestyles (many were gay or bi themselves). As we said (over and over and over ad infinitum ad nauseum), we simply didn't like having it shoved in our faces. NOT liking it shoved in our faces, however, is exactly what most of the vocal lifestylers had a problem with.

This is the exact same division the gay community has been trying to deal with for some time now --- the line between "Gay" and "Gay Prider". Your average Gay is not marching in a Gay Pride Parade mooning churches as he passes, and frankly considers such behavior to be harmful to the gay community since it drums up backlash. But a Gay Prider is not content to be "tolerated", he must be ACCEPTED. Warts and all. And the only way to get people to accept those warts, they think, is to shove them in the face of straights.

Furry lifestyler activists are cut from the same cloth. You cannot merely tolerate them, and you cannot ask them to be content with tolerance. They are not happy unless they are flaunting their personal kinks to everyone they can, and should anyone find fault with this, it's an excuse for a fit of self-righteous rage.

Most lifestylers, of course, had nothing to do with the activists and their actions in the fandom. Unfortunately, most lifestylers that spoke up at all about the problems chose to defend those causing them, or to derail the debate threads altogether with various non sequiturs or ad hominem personal attacks. Things just plain got ugly. And the fact is that the lifestyle community at large wanted to pretend these problems didn't exist at all.

Hence the backlash --- Burned Fur. What else could we do? Talk nicely to these people? We'd tried that. For literally years. Brick walls would have been softer. Burned Fur was not so much an attempt to change the fandom, as it was a collective primal scream of rage at these morons blithely screwing over other people in their attempts to be "accepted".

After all the fuss and bother, the fact remains that for all the vitriol and anger, Burned Fur's essential point was undeniably right: that whatever kinks you may have, it's not acceptable to inflict them on others who may not be of like mind.

It's about having a little class, folks. Sorry if we were too pissed off at the time to say that more gently.

The New Meat · Posted: 8/6/2003 12:43:58 PM Post subject:

So Burned Furs were just a bunch of ninnies who liked to complain? OH MY GOD- does this make US all burned furs?

Anonymous · Posted: 8/6/2003 3:38:19 PM Post subject:

So Burned Furs were just a bunch of ninnies who liked to complain? OH MY GOD- does this make US all burned furs?

Essentially, yes. -:D