Crush...Yiff...Destroy!

Tussan · Recusant Joined: 05 Jun 2003 Posts: 9

has there been any issues about someone genetically attaching a real animal tail to a human body??

i already know that theres people who are furry want to be more then just pretend that there cartoon animals on the internet.

Mitch · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 290

Well, no, but there are a lot of people who like to make out such things are "just around the corner", and that it's only a matter of a few years until they can all be magically transformed into yiffy furry critters. And go and live in fluffyfurryland probably.

Some folk are having a go already, like Dennis "Tiger Guy" Abner...

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

Well, no, but there are a lot of people who like to make out such things are "just around the corner", and that it's only a matter of a few years until they can all be magically transformed into yiffy furry critters. And go and live in fluffyfurryland probably.

Some folk are having a go already, like Dennis "Tiger Guy" Abner...

That man is displacing his problems. He is projecting.
He is externalising the internality. (add other psych. Dogma as you wish)

Yet most of these people forget that “man is the highest state of being for men” .

Whatever patterns he has tattoed on his arse, It will not solve his mental problems.

Oh woe and mercy for this most human of tragedies and for all of those who wish to deface their bodies with these homilies to disfunction.

Genghis · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 186

Well, they've been growing human ears on the backs of mice for ages, as we all know. And there's always this heartwarming tale. So yeah, it's probably possible now, in some sense.
Problem is, try and get a surgeon who's willing to do it. That, and it probably wouldn't function properly (no proper nerve connections, not to mention that having a tail would require at least a dozen extra vertebrae) unless it was somehow done prior to birth - and there's no way in hell you'll find anyone in the scientific/medical community willing to it.

Mitch · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 290

There was an 18th century Scottish judge who honestly believed that all human babies were born with tails, which were promptly removed at birth by midwives... Lord Monbodo I believe.

I am a fund of irrelevant trivia.

Rusty · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 82

Apparently, some doctor says that within 5-10 years he will be able to physically attach a tail (for example) to a human being and you will be able to have full use of it and be able to feel it as if it were fully natural.

I don't know if this is true or not but I'm halfway between being creeped out and thinking it's cool. Well, actually closer to being afraid.

Sure we could very well be able to do such thing on the future, but the question remains of; should we?

If we were meant to have furry tails, we would have been born with them. And lets not get into the 'I'm really an animal stuck in a humans body' stuff.

The problem is that a lot of people would try to have it done as a form of escapeism.

A lot of people seem to think that becomming an animal or 'fury' animal will take away all of their problems and set them free.

Well, maybe in the world of fiction it would/does but not in reality. I honestly think that such things are fun to write about but that we should keep the fantasy type things in fantasy and in reality focus on our real lives.

Lately though, I'm (finally?) starting to realise that the real world and our real lives are much more interesting and enjoyable then fantasy and fiction. Sure it can be to RP every once in a while that your a 'furry' ferret or whatever but there comes a time when you have to shut it all down and get out there into the real world. I think as long as someone knows that 'furries' arn't real and see's it all as harmless fantasy and can shut it off at any time and 'go out there' into the real world and act like a normal person, then I'm cool with that.

verix · Recusant Joined: 27 Jun 2003 Posts: 17

A lot of people seem to think that becomming an animal or 'fury' animal will take away all of their problems and set them free.

No. Not all of their problems, per se. I think what you're trying to say is that it'll get rid of all their social problems. It doesn't, just most. A socially inept furry is very social among other furries, but with the rest of the "mundane" society, they're probably scared as fuck and don't wish to communicate with them.

In a perfect world, no one would oppress anyone, not even furries. So in that perfect world, they would be socially adept, and be able to communicate among the "mundanes" and themselves. But then again, in a perfect world, they wouldn't be so fucking annoying and so high on their horse. Keep in mind that I'm not talking about all furries, just most. I know people who don't feel like themselves unless they wear some sort of synthetic tail. Crazy, I know, but that's them. They believe they have an animal spirit in them, and that's perfectly fine. Humans are animals. Some are more animal than human, and some more human than animal.

A lot of people (Otherkin) who believe that they have animal spirits aren't exactly furry, either. So I don't think it's all about the furries, but all the Otherkin that are the actual people that believe they are animals/some other miscellaneous spirit, and will be wanting this tail upgrade or whatever.

By the way, he's not "Tiger Guy", he's known in the fandom and goes by the name, "Stalking Cat".

The more you know~

PS: If this post makes no sense to you, that's fine. I was just rambling, and I don't even know what I just typed.

Jerry Collins · Coadjutor Joined: 16 Jul 2003 Posts: 162

in the words of Marlin Brando as Gen.Kurtz: "The horror!THE HORROR!"

Rusty · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 82

They believe they have an animal spirit in them, and that's perfectly fine. Humans are animals. Some are more animal than human, and some more human than animal.

A lot of people (Otherkin) who believe that they have animal spirits aren't exactly furry, either. So I don't think it's all about the furries, but all the Otherkin that are the actual people that believe they are animals/some other miscellaneous spirit, and will be wanting this tail upgrade or whatever.

I can understand people that feel that way, I all honesty I sometimes feel that way too, I mean there are a few particular species I like 'furries' of (preferibly clean) that I especially like. I prefer them clean because if I looked at 'dirty' images of them I'd feel as if I were tarnishing them somehow (I know, I know it sounds nuts).

There are times where I wish I could become one of those species, but I have nothing against being human. I mean, if it really could become possible to graft a real working tail of them onto me, would I do it? I honestly don't know, I mean such a decision is a fair bit more life altering then chooseing wether to wear the red shirt or the blue shirt. (it's more along the lines of blue pill or red pill :D).

I can confer with people in the real world just fine. In fact the only furspeak words I know are ones I've heard used on this site. I don't consider myself a 'furry', I don't even know any personally.

I guess I'm just disturbed by the ones who can't wait for this 'upgrade' and are ready to have animal parts put on them as soon as it becomes possible, thinking that it will make their lives better and will make people like them. I'm worried about them because I don't think they are thinking it through and are going to find out the hard way that it isn't the solution to their problems and that they are going to end up stuck with something they don't really want.

PS: If this post makes no sense to you, that's fine. I was just rambling, and I don't even know what I just typed.

Actually, it made perfect sence :)

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

i seen this "tiger guy" on larry king a few years ago

so i was kinda shocked to see him in pics of furry cons etc

but then again thats probably the only place where someone might even begin to undestand him -whatever

as far as whats being posted here, i think its been said before, but the main problem with all of this is just that:

in the imagination its fine, i day-dream weird stuff all the time

but what the hell would you want a tail for??? cmon
i woudlnt wanna walk around funny-animal style with no pants in REAL LIFE

thats why they have all those furgonomics classes at them cons, to figure out how to make chairs and pants and stuff. sounds liek weird fun, till you realize that the guy next to you planning on having a tail installed and this is vital info.

why not be content to leave fantasy to fantasy and reality to reality and not let them contaminate and lessen each other by trying to mix them

if its just "fantasy" then by definition, no harm can come from it....UNLESS you let it take over your life , which is precisly what FAR to many furries have done

ive posted before that ive bought furry "adult" comics, alot of it i liked
i didnt get hot and bothered by it
it didnt make me weird and obsessive over stuff i can never have

so what gives???

verix · Recusant Joined: 27 Jun 2003 Posts: 17

stuff about tails and fantasy

A lot of the technology we have today (television, for instance) used to be the fantasy of yesterday.

People who are furry and non-furry alike probably want a tail simply because it's new. How many people in real life right now do you know with a fully functional, realistic, funny animal tail? None. How many after this surgery? Probably a lot. (EDIT: To clarify, since I didn't answer your question, it would be fun to have a tail, really. It'd be fun to be able to pet someone with it, poke people with it. It'd be like having a third arm.)

I'll be one to admit, as crazy as it sounds, if technology ever comes out, and it doesn't cost an arm, a leg, my head, my chest, my heart, my penis, and every other ligament you can imagine to get it done, I'd probably go for a full-body morph. Now before you claim "WHAT THE FUCK THAT'S MESSED UP," here me out on this.

I do not believe that I am an animal trapped in a human body. I just think it would be fun to be half-man-half-animal. Not like Stalking Cat over here, which is just tattoos and a bunch of fucking plastic surgery, I mean full out. Muzzle, fur, tail, everything. Sure there would be downsides, and I'd have to probably take medicine rectally every half-hour, but what the fuck, it sounds like fun to me. But then again, a lot of things I've done in the past sounded like fun and weren't after, so we'll never know. It would most likely be an irreversable process, but if it was reversable, I wouldn't be afraid to at least try it. As it always will be, my clause is "don't knock it until you've tried it."

And if not a full-body, freak-of-nature morph, I would settle for a transfer between animal and human, again if it was reversable. I'm just morbidly curious in so many things, I'd be very willing to try it.

I'm willing to cross the line between fantasy and reality, just to see what it's like.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

stuff about tails and fantasy

I'll be one to admit, as crazy as it sounds, if technology ever comes out, and it doesn't cost an arm, a leg, my head, my chest, my heart, my penis, and every other ligament you can imagine to get it done, I'd probably go for a full-body morph. Now before you claim "WHAT THE FUCK THAT'S MESSED UP," here me out on this.

I don’t think there’s anything crazy or odd about wishing to be something we are not.
After all, what are our fantasies, dreams etc most often based around?

Have you ever wished you were famous or something like that?
That is no different IMO, to wishing that you had a body morph or whatever.

Yea, Being something that we are not (to varying extents)
Films/books offer the chance to experience something we are not (sometimes)
Computer/Role playing games offer the chance to feel/act like we are something that we are not.

When people look at Non-human animals, they can see things to admire or wish they had,
Since the dawn of time people have noticed that, the endurance and hunting prowess of the wolf, The Strength and (illusionary) nobility of the lion. The Flying of the bird.

Being what we are, it’s only natural to want those things, our tools, at the expense of well… expense can more than compensate for the lack of those things (sometimes), but the want, The desire is something probably hardwired.

Also, There is curiosity as well, that is an inbuilt feature of humankind, so it’s only natural to wonder what it would be like to have the body of a Non-human animal and surely people would seek to experience that if possible. I mean, I’m sure hunter-gatherer societies around the world have sorties and myths about people who turned into animals, animals who turned into people. Some of them even claim to be descended from animal-human couplings.

I still don’t buy anyone who claims to be an animal spirit or whatever trapped in a human body though.

Man is the measure of all things and therefore we cannot know what it is like to be a non-human animal, since we are humans with human brains and sense organs. Therefore we cannot know whether we are correct in describing what we feel about certain things as being the result of having “the inner spirit of a yiffy foxie”.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

Hi I'm angel-Paws a furry random artist

Before anyone eats me or so, I don't draw anything like that...
I might draw my boyfriend and my giving eachother a kiss, but that's all. and there's no porn or yiffing stuff... really really

And if ya don't believe me here's my site
http://angel-resurrection.tripod.com

Though I wanna react a bit on what I read bout Eric W.shwartz.
I hope you don't mind. but I like his comic's and stuff. but there are much more worser people who draw yiffing stuff
Check out the Disney porn site's! there really worser.
I was looking for Jesicca Rabbit for a comic. and I got nothing but nude pictures of her and roger rabbit
I saw Jasmin doing it with her dad.
I'm a huge disney fan
but this came out of Disney
Disney childeren's safe. that hurts man.
Why don't you write something about them.
I really didn't liked what i saw
all the sudden like 15-20 pages open with sex of disney char's
I got on caming out of disney. I had to reboot my computer
how bout that!

plus on eric's stuff again!
there are a huge number of people using the saaaaaaaaaame identical style like him.
but look closely at the color's. then you see the difrence
also eric uses :3
most use : )

Anyways great that you all fight against yiffing and stuff.
Deserves a medal. Unless you find something bad on my site.
I drew jessica rabbit. but nothings wrong with that. cept her legs are to small. hey i ran out of paper. @.@

If you want me to give the link of the site you can contact me
carrie_phx@hotmail.com
or you react on my forum
we got the same type anyway...

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

carrie_phox@hotmail.com

dang... :oops:

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

well, just remember verix

"satisfaction is the death of desire"

i wouldnt want fantasy invading my real life

if you were gona get a tail you should want one in the sense that you would want a piercing or a tattoo...which sounds like the case anyway

Jerry Collins · Coadjutor Joined: 16 Jul 2003 Posts: 162

Greetings to the lady Carrie, welcome young one!you seem like a nice,young,innocent person...( I was one of those,once,long ago).Let me warn you of the darker aspects of some,of furry v.s. "phurri"...there are Cromwellian prudes and priggs and old fart conservative/Rush Limbaugh wannabes on one side..on the other,well meaning "liberal(?)" tree hugger-suburban rebels...and scarier people still,... people ,who's psyco-sexual disfunctions would creep-out the B.D.S.M. leather/rubber crowd and make Clive Barker Cenobytes weep in sorrow for them! are you sure you don't want to be a general illustrator?,or Children's book illustrator?,or drive a dynamite truck for an Australian opal mining company?A traffic cop in Paris?or a bus driver in Beruit?you know..something SAFER....If you decide to "brass it out",Then you are a brave soul!braver than I!but be aware m'lady.!..keep your spirit merry and true,be strong in that which you believe in..but not inflexable! look to the rise of the road,but keep a wary eye over your shoulder! ..I think you will do well...Good fortune!and blessed be!(Jerry Collins)

Mitch · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 290

Though I wanna react a bit on what I read bout Eric W.shwartz.
I hope you don't mind. but I like his comic's and stuff. but there are much more worser people who draw yiffing stuff

Have you seen the stuff he does as TDK?? It's eye-poppingly gross, especially the notorious "Fifi & Santa" pic. He has a thing about hentai-style tentacle pix featuring WB characters and seems to be well in with that creepy Fatalis person (aka Manawolf).

I wouldn't mind except for the way he's so secretive about it, denying everything and pretending to know nothing about TDK. Why, one could almost think he was ashamed of those pix. But that could never be, could it??

And before you ask, I can prove that Eric is TDK, but I will say no more just now as the subject is to be featured as an article on this site very soon. Which will probably lead to us being flamed mercilessly, but what the heck.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

Thanks

I'm inocent, don't cha worry... I'm wellknown as sweet loving and kind at home and at the internet :wink:
Though don't like it. I'm glad noone (yet) replied bad at what I wrote

^^'

Thanks for the kind words mr. Jerry Collins
May luck be with you
As I always say. I'm a star that protects you from very far :oops:

Rusty · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 82

I don’t think there’s anything crazy or odd about wishing to be something we are not.
After all, what are our fantasies, dreams etc most often based around?

Have you ever wished you were famous or something like that?
That is no different IMO, to wishing that you had a body morph or whatever.

When people look at Non-human animals, they can see things to admire or wish they had,
Since the dawn of time people have noticed that, the endurance and hunting prowess of the wolf, The Strength and (illusionary) nobility of the lion. The Flying of the bird.

I agree, people have written fiction and drawn art of people becomming things other then human for thousands of years (likley many many more), so the facination and curiosity of wondering what it's like to be something other then human isn't exactly abnormal, in fact if anything it's normal.

Also, There is curiosity as well, that is an inbuilt feature of humankind, so it’s only natural to wonder what it would be like to have the body of a Non-human animal and surely people would seek to experience that if possible.

I agree, if it became possible then I probably would go for it, especially if it could be reversed if I didn't like it. If it coulden't be reversed then I'd have to give it some serious thought. But I can't deny that the thought of actually getting to experience life as something other then human is very intriguing.

I still don’t buy anyone who claims to be an animal spirit or whatever trapped in a human body though.

Man is the measure of all things and therefore we cannot know what it is like to be a non-human animal, since we are humans with human brains and sense organs. Therefore we cannot know whether we are correct in describing what we feel about certain things as being the result of having “the inner spirit of a yiffy foxie”.

I understand that point of view, can we really say for certain what being a certain species is like? Not really.

A lot of people really do feel a connection to a certain species and they can't explain it. By saying they have the 'inner spirit' of that species, they are trying to explain it in a way that seems logical and I don't see anything wrong with that.

In all honesty, I don't see anything wrong with fantasy. What someone thinks or believes is not my right to judge. What someone does in the privacy of their own home is their own business (as long as it's legal of course). If someone feels that their an animal 'trapped' in a humans body then that's cool with me, whatever gives them comfort and/or spiritual enlightenment.

I mean, who knows, maybe some people really are animals in human bodies. I mean the universe is a wonderous place filled with things that we can't even begin to explain. Perhaps theres far more to this then we realise.

Jerry Collins · Coadjutor Joined: 16 Jul 2003 Posts: 162

Well said!well spoken!Bravo!

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

I saw the art of Minerva Mink what everyone says he did. I think on the style it's Eric, but some people say no. Some people like you do say yes.

I'm not sure what to believe. He aint my friend. Though I learned a lot of his style. wern't from him, I'd still be drawing Manga. I only spook twice to him ( a finally replied FAN e-mail) I made something nice for him, or ask him advice, he doesn't reply how to restore the fault i have made... I tried also to be nice to make friends, and he didn't replied for a month. at last a few weeks back he replied but shortly that my art is waaaaaaaaaaay to big, that i should make it smaler (again I can not do anything right :evil: )

Bout myself. I'm a young girl of 20 from Belgium
I hope noone misunderstands me from my english, cause I speak flamish normaly :lol:
I'm a loner, I look up to people. I don't have friends. Why... Like I said I'm a loner... Art is all I got to express myself. I have a boyfriend on the other side of the planet, ...
Ehm anything you need to know you can always ask... :oops:

Never saw fifi and santa pic, atleast not yet. I did found a secret yahoo group, with dirty yiffing pictures. that made my Jaws wide open. That I acctuelly didn't expected of Eric.

I'm sorry that I can not make people blue. I'm raised to love everyone, not to hate. Though I have many reason's to hate humanity acctuelly.
I'm a nature lover. and I respect everything that live's. If only it could be the for other people too. Then there would be truley peace on this planet

anyways sorry :oops: (nagging again)
I hope if those who saw my site didn't noticed anything bad. I woudn't be able to draw like that. for two reason's first... I'm well awhaere it's abusing your char for your own pleasure. second. my 2 important creation's are 9 and 6 years old. I tread them if they where my own childeren. (wich means non yiffing but playfull to the kids too like : carrie plays with a basketball :arrow: art is then that carrie is playing basketball not doing something horibell or something)
third: I'm to shy for drawing anything like that. I'm very very very shy
fourth: I cannot draw something like that
five: I puke when i just see porn so...

6: eh that would be it. I hope you don't think I'm a bad person. It truley break my feelings.

- carrie phox aka angel paws x

Mitch · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 290

Eh, your English is perfectly OK. About a million times better than my French!

As to the Fifi pic, well, it's pretty gross. Now, I'm pretty much hardened by seeing all sorts of pix online, but you may want to give it a miss. If you think you can stand The Horror, there's a small version here.

Hey, no-one here thinks you're bad, I'm sure.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

My frence is veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery bad ^^ but thanks for the compliment ^^'

Oh my... Poor FIFI!!!!!!! My favorite all time skunky!

I found today this pic, so I thought you meant this one...

But that one's even worse...

http://users.binary.net/jhooten/views.php3?gal=1&pg=1&count=61&id=xxxmasmin.gif

I thought to show you guys this...

- carrie phox aka angel paws

Jerry Collins · Coadjutor Joined: 16 Jul 2003 Posts: 162

To Angel-paws:Re Eric's porn stuff..I wouldn't expect all 'morphic art fans to be into the fur-porn stuff( it would be foolish) It's the excesses of Eric,Brian O'Connell,etc. that has produced a GLUT of rubbish to the Adult themed genres.to be honest, I too have done fuzzy-erotica(I refuse to call my stuff furotica,,ick,how corn ball!) too,but,I tried(and admititly failed at times)to portray my characters in a lover's emrace,that ,even if the actions of the lovers maybe a bit exotic/pleasantly kinky,it is between consenting,sentient,ADULT beings! I avoided like the plague any requests to do established studio characters,offering to do generic "furry" girlie art(hard times,many debts,has turned many an artist into a desperate mercenary)that,and I feared the wrath of Disney&Warners..as to MY own creations,they run the gamut from p.g. to n.r. 17 toAdults only(with warnings on the 'zine covers)But unlike many "furotica" artists,I take responsibilty for what I create,I don't use a fakey,pretentious pen name,and I don't force it on the unwilling.and if a nice kid from Belgium wrote me for advice,I'D WRITE HER BACK!even if she thought my art was creepy. a Lacota Souix proverb:"a true heart beats the strongest!"peace(J)

Jerry Collins · Coadjutor Joined: 16 Jul 2003 Posts: 162

I wanted to add, that if any of you guys here find my stuff offensive ,sorry,I at least have the grasp of reality to know my stuff IS NOT FOR EVERYBODY!and I would be an utter moron if I expected otherwise.Not everybody likes Frank Zappa,the Ramones,or Mozart for that matter!we all like what we like,it's how we handle ourselves in the REAL world that is the defining factor,to be responsible for our actions!...NOT TO WUSS OUT AND DENY THEM!re my art:poor computolio still must be creeped out by my "warrior Deer women in rubber" art schtick-thingy..Hey,when I was much younger,Vaughn Bode's stuff used to creep me out,NOW Vaughn Bode is one of my favourite artists!!so if he doesn't groove to the "Haku-Hasin" vibe,s"cool by me.Re Angelpaws' english:English is my native tongue,AND I'M STILL TRYING TO FIGURE THE STUPID THING OUT!(SIGH)the only foreign languages I know is a tiny bit of German&Yiddish(mostly terms of dismay or playful vulgarisms)so don't feel bad!( are you flemmish?Haucht deutsch?Walloons?no offence,just curious!)I used to know the lyrics to Motzart's Zaide tavern song..sigh..I used to know a LOT of things...blessed be all here!

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

Why thank you mr. Collins that is so sweet of you to say that, well I'm from Antwerp. I'm not walonish. Walonish can't stand people who live in antwerp because of our dialect ;)
Zo dat will zeggen dat ik Nederlands spreek
Walonish speak French most of the time. There are exeptions because of the law... stupid law, they make us speak french, but it's the other way arround too. Those who speak flamish as myself. We have the abilyty to take over many dialects. I can speak Austaralian dialect, mate as for english as flat amerikan, man. I can speak french level one as zee skunkie fifi :lol: just kidding, my french is level one, school level.
C'est bien, mais c'est tout!

About my art. Hmm. If i make a gift or a trade art, i want to know everything about it's creation. what i should look for. My art is from very high matter. You get an art of mine that's very high. With the years It got better and better. i started from Manga. And now my style is Disney/Elfquest/WarnerBross/Dreamworks and still a touch of Manga
I do many trade's because with trading I get paid. I only do gifts to friends. Trading might build a friendship. :) I got lot's of friends online. not in real life though... (like i said i'm a loner)
But anyways to go back on the art. I contacted eric for that. Doesn't reply. But I spook about that part allready. Don't want to repeat my self (I might aswell can put on a parrot :lol: )
Though I got a hidden name. many people now in Rl my name. my Rl name is Karine Coenen. Won lot's of contest in Belgium, and one around the world. I'm afraid the one I won is the pokémon one.
I won a mew, and called Nintendo Benelux for asking my art back. But they thought the creation was soooooo good that they wanted to use it for themself. (as proud as i was talking bout 1999-2000). Let's see where 2003 still no mewt on my game boy. Must have lied to me, like most people do. She can be found on my site under the name Mewt.

last year I won the contest at Mekkanik. but at range 16. Just one point to much to get in the paper. This year, and I'm prepared. to be at the first.

My art is quit popular. but not just that. My aunt works at the disney studio's as a cleaner. and showed my art to the people who worked there. they contacted me. because there interested in my fox char. Carrie
Wich wont be gaven to them. they'll mess up her story anyway. so carrie and co is taken of the internet for a while. Untill my patent and stories are finished. Also why I wont give in to Disney is because I want to work for Dreamworks. That's my goal. and if I get there I think my creation will become better there. We'll just wait and see what happens. wont it.

Current I do art for a Pregfur site. Why. Well I got a childwish. I'm not able to have childeren :( So that's why I draw such stuff. though there 4-6 arts on the loose like that. and there's nothing naked nor sexual stuff in it. it's just a bigger belly. It's seems to be the only thing that can make my pain go away. (hope the treadment works soon)

So I'll cut my tongue for a while. I got some art to do. and a comic to work one.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

I understand that point of view, can we really say for certain what being a certain species is like? Not really.

A lot of people really do feel a connection to a certain species and they can't explain it. By saying they have the 'inner spirit' of that species, they are trying to explain it in a way that seems logical and I don't see anything wrong with that.

In all honesty, I don't see anything wrong with fantasy. What someone thinks or believes is not my right to judge. What someone does in the privacy of their own home is their own business (as long as it's legal of course). If someone feels that their an animal 'trapped' in a humans body then that's cool with me, whatever gives them comfort and/or spiritual enlightenment.

I mean, who knows, maybe some people really are animals in human bodies. I mean the universe is a wonderous place filled with things that we can't even begin to explain. Perhaps theres far more to this then we realise.

It may well be that Non-human animals experience different emotions to us (since their sensory capacities are different to ours, for example dogs have an infinitely superior sense of smell, better night vision, but much poorer colour and detail) since we are human, and operate on a different wavelength as it were,

We cannot fully understand how their minds work, we can only make inferences about them and their behaviour, I don't think we can ever claim to fully understand non-human animals, we can only make inferences about their behaviour since we are limited by the very fact of our human minds and sensory apparatus.

Of course, I believe that the consciousness, the mind, YOU, what makes you you. Resides solely in the physical body. The Brain.

If you were to be of the school of thought (like dualism), who says that the mind is not nesecerily brain (or brain alone), it is something special and different, like an abstract spirit thingy. You could work that into the world I think.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

I wanted to add, that if any of you guys here find my stuff offensive ,sorry,I at least have the grasp of reality to know my stuff IS NOT FOR EVERYBODY!and I would be an utter moron if I expected otherwise.Not everybody likes Frank Zappa,the Ramones,or Mozart for that matter!we all like what we like,it's how we handle ourselves in the REAL world that is the defining factor,to be responsible for our actions!...NOT TO WUSS OUT AND DENY THEM!re my art:poor computolio still must be creeped out by my "warrior Deer women in rubber" art schtick-thingy..Hey,when I was much younger,Vaughn Bode's stuff used to creep me out,NOW Vaughn Bode is one of my favourite artists!!so if he doesn't groove to the "Haku-Hasin" vibe,s"cool by me.

I know someone who once wanted to a Robert Crum book, but the local library refused to get it in for him.
And they also refused to get a book in, which was highly revealing and critical of the royal family.

Censorship is wrong, and I can’t see anything wrong with drawing Girlie art, Naked furies, or anything like that.

However, repeated exposure can inure, desensitize you to certain things, and things like “cub art” are just wrong. Who knows what kind of effect they can have on certain people?
Maybe not everyone, maybe not even a few people who see them will be affected in any way (except to go.. ewwww) But is that really the sort of thing that should be encouraged by anyone?
What about rape art/pr0n?

Certain areas when you go into them become grey and murkey very quickly.

Jerry Collins · Coadjutor Joined: 16 Jul 2003 Posts: 162

Your'e right.It's just that censorship still bugs me (on a spiritual/instinctual level)there does need to be responsibility in the media,it's just the "IT'S ALL BAD!" type of thinking that gives me the willies!and not to sound like a hypocrite there are somethings I wouldn't miss like:White supreamist/neo nazi propaganda,child pornography,"crush" videos,necrophillia(and I DON'T mean Anne Rice Novels),and any nude photos of Brian O'Connell*snicker*....But when self appointed arbitures of morality(usally theirs,not mine) tell me what I can and cannot see,IT MAKES ME CRANKY!!!..so if I sound like a compleate git..I probably am!but, lord help me,I try to be honest and without guile. "Freedom,without responsibility ,is folly!"..Iv'e been called a whole host of horrid things(some true,but out of context)but no one's called me a liar!peace to you all(Jer)

Rusty · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 82

I especially hate how the cencors are now denying history.

Notice that pretty much all cartoons made durring WW2 are now banned?

Or that any cartoon that has nazi's in it (say cause of time travel) refuses to mention Hitlers name or show Swasticas?

To me, that's cencorship, WW2 and the Nazi's are a part of history and cencoring it is basically denying history.

They say that those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it, well, if the cencors keep you from learning about history then it's hard to learn from it.

Jerry Collins · Coadjutor Joined: 16 Jul 2003 Posts: 162

The nazi propaganda I refered to was PRO nazi**(i.e. wouldn't miss it if it went away)however the older I get ,the less valid censorship seems,just no excuse to me!..I do find it iritating when new cartoons(or heavily mutilated classics)refuse to acknowledge Hitler,nazis,fascism,racism,or bigotry>example<on a time traveler episode of ..ick..capt.planet....the planeteers faced off with the "leader" of "the warring europian nation" ol' 'Dolph had a Fu Man Chu mustache and his hair was parted in the middle like a 1900s barbershop fellow..no swastickas,no s.s.guards....no mention of the holocost....Lame or what ,huh folks?..at least Capt. Planet became extreamly nausiated when he came near the "leader".."He..He's TOXIC!!!!"..old fogey conservatives and well meaning liberal idiots sould stay the hell away from anything connected to the making of a good cartoon!..this is not the absolute truth,just the opinion of a picky old coot.(Jerry) **i.e. TomMetzger's W.A.R.,J.B.Stoner's Lightningbolt,The Blood drop/klan news letter,and other wastes of trees

Jerry Collins · Coadjutor Joined: 16 Jul 2003 Posts: 162

well I screwed it up again,so let's see what I (ineptly)was trying to say....
I don't like censorship
I think people need to be responsible for what they do
I enjoy variety
and (most importantly) NAZIS STINK!!!!
okay,I hope that works guys & gals...my last bit was as clear as milk! I hope I made sense this time! blessed be!(Jerry)....oh,yeah, polliticly correct cartoons are like non alcholic beer....why bother?

Genghis · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 186

Notice that pretty much all cartoons made durring WW2 are now banned?

Not banned, just hidden.
The main reason they're not showing them along with the rest of the saturday morning cartoons is the fact that most of them are about as racist as an average klan rally, but a fair few can be found in archives if you look hard enough.

Incidentally, that site is worth visiting purely for "Bugs Bunny nips the nips", though it still doesn't have the cartoon where Bugs is defending a stockade in the wild west ("one little, two little, three little indians..." BLAM BLAM BLAM). I need to find a copy of that one, as from what I remember it has much potential to offend (well, offend someone other than me).

Oh, and as off-topic as it may be, I hereby insist that everyone read this.

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

if your looking for any of those cartoons one place i know that does (or did) have them is the:

Whole 'Toon Catalog

which i believe is a subdivision of facets home video...you have to look it up , i only have the paper catalogs...never looked for a site

they got sections of pre-war and WWII cartoons
propaganda stuff

they have damn near EVERYTHING actually

they also have alot of those racist cartoons...not just cowboy/indian stuff they removed from tv recently...blatantly racist stuff that was never really released (coal black and seben dwarfs)

i think there was a one bugs bunny cartoon that got yanked at least in canada because bugs made a sexist comment (although personally i thought it was a really funny line, and im not a chauvinist type of person)

(update: i checked the catalog its www.facets.org)

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

I wanted to add, that if any of you guys here find my stuff offensive ,sorry,I at least have the grasp of reality to know my stuff IS NOT FOR EVERYBODY!and I would be an utter moron if I expected otherwise.Not everybody likes Frank Zappa,the Ramones,or Mozart for that matter!we all like what we like,it's how we handle ourselves in the REAL world that is the defining factor,to be responsible for our actions!...NOT TO WUSS OUT AND DENY THEM!re my art:poor computolio still must be creeped out by my "warrior Deer women in rubber" art schtick-thingy..Hey,when I was much younger,Vaughn Bode's stuff used to creep me out,NOW Vaughn Bode is one of my favourite artists!!so if he doesn't groove to the "Haku-Hasin" vibe,s"cool by me.Re Angelpaws'

i like your deer chix jerry..hehe

i think the main thing is just how you respond to it (the art in question)

i told everyone before i have adult stuff and dont have a prob wiht it , even graphic sexual content. to me its mostly humorous, and i think a lot of its supposed to be. i also think the characters are beautiful in an artistic way.
to quote jerry again:
"I too have done fuzzy-erotica(I refuse to call my stuff furotica,,ick,how corn ball!) too,but,I tried(and admititly failed at times)to portray my characters in a lover's emrace,that ,even if the actions of the lovers maybe a bit exotic/pleasantly kinky,it is between consenting,sentient,ADULT beings! "
this is the type of thing i can like, *especially if its the appropriate context of a story
(edit: i dont draw, im agreeing with the way he views erotic or adult art)

btw a far more effective critism of santas BJ from fifi, is not that its illegal, immoral, whatever...its just stupid, really stupid - its the type of thing that when trying to think of a funny picture to do for the holidays its the first idea that pops into your head, then you realize thats its dumb and move onto something else..but instead he drew the first dumb idea he had

also re: tentacle stuff
the story i always heard (and funny how all the stuff i say about furry now i said years ago when i heard this) is that one day somebody started a usenet group alt.sex.cthulu and peopel started posting tentacle rape pix there
(is this newsgroup even still around??)

to me (h.p. lovecraft fan) thats just funny ...i dunno if the alt.cthulu guys got it from japan or not (anyone got input on that????)

and when i was thinking about it, i figured it just funny...very graphic and lewd, but thats what its supposed to be
am i wrong on this?

and i figured for every 1000 people looking at something laughing theres gonna be 1-2 that are getting off on it ...and in some cases that what makes it disturbing ...not the object in question itself

now if everyone starts taking it seriously...too seriously, and it starts to alter thier perception of reality, and turns them into a creepy weirdo - this is where the problem starts

Rusty · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 82

i think there was a one bugs bunny cartoon that got yanked at least in canada because bugs made a sexist comment (although personally i thought it was a really funny line, and im not a chauvinist type of person)

(update: i checked the catalog its www.facets.org)

Yea, I remember that one. Bugs turns a witch into a bunny lass and at the ends makes a tounge in cheek type comment of 'Awe come on, their all like that inside' or something like that (ie saying all women are witches). It was a harmless comment, no more harmfull then a character saying 'men are such pigs' but saying it in a fun, ironic tone.

I remember a lot of letters ot the editor about how yanking it was taking the cencorship way way too far, many of them from women who feel that a lot of these feminists are getting to the point of absurdity with some of their actions.

As for the cencorship, while I do udnerstand that some of these cartoons are very racist and offensive and should probably never have been made in the first place, I prefer to see it as, it's part of history and we know cartoons like that probably shoulden't have been made in the first place. But they were made and by seeing them we are able to realise how far we've come in the past 50+ years.

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

Yea, I remember that one. Bugs turns a witch into a bunny lass and at the ends makes a tounge in cheek type comment of 'Awe come on, their all like that inside' or something like that (ie saying all women are witches). It was a harmless comment, no more harmfull then a character saying 'men are such pigs' but saying it in a fun, ironic tone.

ya thats the one, after he gets the witch to drink the pretty potion and either he pops back in after leaving or just turns to the audience and says "i know what your thinkin...but arn't they all - on the inside"

As for the cencorship, while I do udnerstand that some of these cartoons are very racist and offensive and should probably never have been made in the first place, I prefer to see it as, it's part of history and we know cartoons like that probably shoulden't have been made in the first place. But they were made and by seeing them we are able to realise how far we've come in the past 50+ years.

id never suggest banning them...i wouldnt even support banning of hate speech

at this point in time ..i sincerely have more respect for open racists and neo-nazis (i just disagree with these people) than i do for closet bigots and middle america that thinks racism/discrimination is over with (these people i despise)

Jerry Collins · Coadjutor Joined: 16 Jul 2003 Posts: 162

A very good point.

DA · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 320

Just one question, Angelpaws and Jerry, can you post your sites? I'd like to take a peakage at your work, I see alot of mention of artwork but no links?

Jerry Collins · Coadjutor Joined: 16 Jul 2003 Posts: 162

DA: all that I have is a simple e.mail site,not a proper web site(teency budget ya' know)but,I'm sure,if you ask Mike Hirtes VERY nicely,he might scan some of my stuff to you(My scanner,for all intents ,is KAPUT!I can't even scan my stuff on there!ARGH!)I'd like to see Angel paws work too,but I'm afraid she might be in a tight money/cranky computor scenario similar to mine (Or I could be wrong)Still,I'd like to see her work,just to satisfy my curiousity!sorry,but as I've told a friend recently ,my computor is rather like Mark Twain's mule from his prospecting days"Old,deaf,blind in one eye,but she gets you there!"(Jerry)

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

But that is no problem mon cherie

http://angel-resurrection.tripod.com

or http://angel-paws.deviantart.com

Enjoy, ow please sign yourself's up on my fourm, I think you all would love it there as well

-Kissie kissie
-carrie phox aka angel paws

Mitch · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 290

Just one question, Angelpaws and Jerry, can you post your sites? I'd like to take a peakage at your work, I see alot of mention of artwork but no links?

Don't forget... some of Jerry's sketches are right here on CYD on this page.

CAUTION: may cause offence to Eric Schwartz fans!!

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

PFFFFFFFFF aslong it's not me there scolling with it's just fine with me... :)
My back is a wall from what all i've been true...

HEEEEEEEEEEEEY NICE ART!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

**i.e. TomMetzger's W.A.R.,J.B.Stoner's Lightningbolt,The Blood drop/klan news letter,and other wastes of trees

coincidentally a book i would really recommend is
Blood in the Face

a friend let me borrow it, he had an early edition, so it was a little dated had a few errors but it was good, not sure if there another edition out

either way it covers the whole racialist movements from the beginnings until whenever the book was published...
there really hasnt been as much going on lately anyway, not like it used to be

they also have a big chart of key players how they founded other movements, how its all connected

Also Tom MEtzger , as much as i hate to say , is probably the 1 guy i can respect. if not just for the fact that he went leftist, which is one thing that always boggled the hell outa me as to why these racist groups would be so republican, when thier membership is primarily poor/working class (white). lot of ignorance there. id just rather deal with WAR goons than klan types

i guess what im gettign at is some of the things metzger said showed at least some progressive thought and thats good enough for me ...hes probably the only racist whos actually come to very correct conclusion that polluting the environment is bad for white people too, he also said a bunch of other stuff i cant even remember most of it ....but basiaclly i found it at least slightly amusing tha we probably have the same opinion of each other. he said he wished more left wing anarchist intellectual types would focus more on race, and its like i like his politics, and i dont give a shit about the racial garbage....anyway theres always gonna be racism, i guess id rather it be a laid back seperatist variety similiar to metzgers

(Not that W.A.R. guys are nessecarilly gonna be non-violent, but at least they are starting to show brains....whatever)

Jerry Collins · Coadjutor Joined: 16 Jul 2003 Posts: 162

Sensitive skins?educated brown shirts?......grab your ankles and grit your teeth..HERE COMES THE APPOCOLYPSE!......IEEEEEEEEEEE!

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

Just one question, Angelpaws and Jerry, can you post your sites? I'd like to take a peakage at your work, I see alot of mention of artwork but no links?

Don't forget... some of Jerry's sketches are right here on CYD on this page.

CAUTION: may cause offence to Eric Schwartz fans!!

Oooooh, I like the “stop the Brian O’ Connell machine” one,
It reminds me of the Ork Gargants from Epic 40,000.

Jerry Collins · Coadjutor Joined: 16 Jul 2003 Posts: 162

Thank you David.the art was inspired by the old labour/union hand out tracts from the 1890 to 1917 era...And if Brian O'Connell was in pollitics of that era..he'd definatly be a Tamanny tiger booster( Brain dead,evil,greedy shnook!...old boss Tweed,a real proto Brian O'Connell!)And it was Tomas Nast,a cartoonist,that took him down!(will history repeat itself?)my love to all(Jerry)

Jerry Collins · Coadjutor Joined: 16 Jul 2003 Posts: 162

Angel paws: I just saw your work,BEAUTIFUL!!!your work is very charming,well drawn,and your characters have a sweet spirit to them,I wish you ALL the success and good fortune !you diserve it! and I still think Eric Schwartz was a total bufoon for ignoring you ! No doubt,you are a far more enlightened person than I and would forgive him...me?..it's just another reason not to call him a friend.(Jerry)

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

AWWWWWWW :oops: thank you mr . Collins ^^

Jerry Collins · Coadjutor Joined: 16 Jul 2003 Posts: 162

you are very welcome.Thank you (Jerry)

DA · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 320

Angel-paws> nice work, your coloring is especially well done. Strangely enough I have my own pokemon character called mewwie whose a mewthree, just one tiny suggestion though, try not to put up so many graphics and lose the cursor, I find as a designer that simple pages are often the most attractive.

I've seen those works of Jerry's that are upon CYD, I was hoping to see something a little more polished?

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

^^ sorry, though, i tried to make the stite to look better... I'm lousy at it, though the site is tempelary, untill my bf, takes his own up, then it will be cool.
Music is on it, but soon my own home made music, i'm a singer :d

DA · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 320

I can't sing myself, but I would love to hear your work.

If you want any help with the site like style sheets done once I get my comp kitted out with the requisite programmes, I'd be glad to help.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

I can give you music, but the one i just finished isn't copyrighted yet, though I got another one...

YOu wanna help? that's soooooooo sweet of you ^^

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

Hey folks!I'm using the local library's computor.I just wanted to say I'm still alive,and to appologise for the discomfort any of you may have suffered because a certain person's lack of reality.I miss you guys an awful lot(hassles with my home system) I wish i could have a lot more time to talk and natter. but I don't know when I'll have a chance to do this again.my respects to mouse and mitch and warm fuzzies to angel paws.well,they(the library) has only a 30 minute time use to each patron.so I gotta go( alot of folks need to use this guy)Remember me,and Jah bless you all(Jerry Collins)

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

i know you probably wont read this for a while,

but nice hearing from ya again jerry!