Crush...Yiff...Destroy!

Rusty

I've never been to a convention so I don't know what they are really like, but I have heard about them and find myself wondering some things.

1) Fursuiters

Okay, furry cons are going to have fursuiters and that's that but I do wonder, how do these people have the time to make a fursuit? I mean, don't these people have jobs, lives, families or other obligations that would make building such a costume out of the questions?

2) Travel

Travel in this day and age is expensive. To me it would seem like traveling half way accross the country just to spend 2 days ata convention then flying back home would be cost prohibitive. I mean if you live in the city a con is in then that's diffrent, but going to the expence of flying and getting a hotel just for a convention? I mean if you are spening a week or two in a city on business or visiting relaltives and you have a 'free day' and decide to spend it at a 'con' just for the fun of it, that's fine but spending all that money just for a con?

3) Time off

Don't these people have jobs? I mean they must have jobs to be able to afford the expense of flying over and such. But how do they get the time off? Generally to be fully prepared and such you'd need to fly over on a Friday, get settled in so your fully ready and such on Saturday and Sunday then you fly home on Sunday night or on Monday then back to work on Tuesday. Is it really worth taking 2 days off just for a con?

Sorry if I offend or bother anyone, these are things I've often wondered aboyt cons and with Anthrocon being this past weekend, the way people in the 'fandom' are talking it sounds like 'everyone went' and that is what confuses me.

Jerry Collins · Posted: 7/25/2003 3:26:58 AM Post subject:

It's like what Ambrose Bierce once said"Some things mortal kind were never ment to know."(or was it H.P.Lovecraft that said that?I can't quiet remember,lots of head injuries as a kid.)and THAT might explain a LOT*snicker*later on good people!(Jer)

mouse

1) Fursuiters

Okay, furry cons are going to have fursuiters and that's that but I do wonder, how do these people have the time to make a fursuit? I mean, don't these people have jobs, lives, families or other obligations that would make building such a costume out of the questions?

like any hobby , you find time, even it its just a few hours a month, eventually you will complete whatever it is your doing. i think alot of furries have a lot of time on thier hands(im not basing that on any type of fact at all..)

2) Travel
3) Time off

re:2 and 3

i look at it like this, this past week, my town literally filled up wiht RVs...it was some sort of annual RV convention. RVs being what they are: they have this thing in a different place every year. (why on earth they picked a burned-out rust belt city like buffalo is beyond me) but i was thinking wtf would these people do for a week ? then it occured to me, any group or group that shares some sort of common interest will do this type of thing. while the RV convention would be boring to me...they walk around price and look at Rvs...yawn

...well, at some point i will start going to the woodward dream cruise in detroit MI (i heard this thing go by 10 different names), which is just a day or 2 of traffic jam (literally) of classic cars (they drive down the main avenues through detroit, out into the suburbs...locals just put chairs on the front lawn and watch the cars go by all day)

to me this is the coolest thing on earth , and i really wanna go someday

same goes for hot august nights RENO, NV: cars, 50's clothes and music

awesomeness

if you dont like cars, it would probably seem like a huge headache - really boring or whatever

(i spent 3 days last summer at the local autoshow ..ALL DAY - ALL 3 days mind you, and this is a 1-building event ...theres a swap meet outside , some people with their own cars in the parking lot, show cars inside , and a local classic car dealers auctions. i was at this thing probably a total of 36 hours , in other words, way too long
i also usually wander around that dealers warehouse/garage/dealership whatever for a couple hours a few times a year - www.tycc.net)

but im a completele fanatic when it comes to this shit so...

anyhow maybe this post will give you a different perspective on it

Rusty · Posted: 7/25/2003 7:08:46 AM Post subject:

I can udnerstand it looking at it that way.

From what I've heard from some in the 'fandom' what you said is esentually how it is. As they saying goes, if something is important, you make the time.

Most seem to only go to one per year and they arrange 2-3 days off and save up for the airfare so they can go to one of the big cons per year (anthrocon from what I hear is one of the really big ones, so that's the one most people go to).

Realistically, most people generally cannot afford to (for both time and financial reasons) go to every convention of course, so they will pick the biggest one and plan for in some cases months.

I get the idea that for most people a 'con' like this will keep them occupied for say an afternoon while they look arround the various 'booths'. But for someone really into it, they could spend all day there and litterally spend hours talking to each artist.

Thank you for giving me a straight answer, now I understand it much better.

mouse · Posted: 7/25/2003 8:15:42 AM Post subject: specificaly about anthrocon

i havent bothered to confirm this but i get the feeling this anthron '03 is one of the biggest furry conventions ever
last i heard it was around 1600 people that attended
(just checked it was 1600 in '02, '03 they havent finsihed counting yet )

i think confurence peaked years ago at about 1200

i think the other big one is further confusion? its in NW USA somewhere WA maybe
im not sure what attendance is usually at that one

but when i was reading anthrocon message boards @ thier site

[url>http://www.anthrocon.org/info.cgi/index

seemed that the enitre adams mark was booked, and i think most of the backup hotel they had too

so with better guests (like '04 is looking like) im predicting AC is gonna even bigger next year , they may even have to conceivably change venues ...although im not even sure if thats feasible (i dont know much about philly , the size of adams mark hotel, if there anythign larger or anything like that)

i think in retrospect the death of confurence will turn out to be a good thing, thats the convention that had the tarnished reputation , and thats also where alot of the bad press came from

the declining attendance there (for years) is probably where the boost @ anthrocon is coming from

i remember reading somewhere that there used to be a difference between west coast and east coast furry fans, it was a sharp contrast
west coast was the parties, and all the stuff that got things going in the wrong direction, while east coast was more art and comics ....that difference dissapeared...but i think at least in some small ways you can still see it sometimes

and the feeling i get from anthrocon is that its just more art n comics based and doesnt have alot of the problems ...it just seems more professional i guess

who knows, never been there so i cant say for sure

as i said in older threads, i, for the most part like alot of the same stuff as furries, i just dont associate with other furries themselves

but seriously, if AC gets any bigger i may just go for the hell of it. if people like sakai's gonna be there and your getting 1600-1800 people ...it cant be all bad
id like to drive down, spend the day and drive home,

Jerry Collins · Posted: 7/25/2003 3:03:15 PM Post subject: things long past

(sigh)Cons...I guess I am getting too old,long drives,cheezy hotels,bad food on one side..having a low key adventure,seeing stuff of all kinds,meeting new,cool,people on the other...I'm just not as strong or youthful as I used to be.
About the only reason I go to any kind of con is to:
(a)Make money
(b)Find stuff at the dealer's room that I can't find locally
(c)Meet old friend I hadn't seen in a while and make new contacts
(d)Annoy my enemies
Aside from that,there's not much reason for me to go(that,and it will be a loooooooooonnnnnnnnnnng time before I can afford to go to a con,I'm kinda,uh,not exactly cash endowed at this time.)so it goes gang!
If you guys can,be there at the con for me in spirit for me,and tell 'em"Jerry Collins sent me" if you can please.(If not,no sweat!)
Well,the old buzzard must fly("SKWARK!AWRK!RHAK!.flutter,flutter,flap,flap,flap) later on younguns!(Jerry)

DA · Posted: 7/25/2003 5:13:00 PM Post subject: Conventions?

They are fun, if you can get to them, most of them are in america and I'm just a british person.

Most people save up for ages to go to them, yes people have jobs and stuff but the large percentage of convention goers are made up of the fanatics and the close enough to go.

As for time to make a fursuit? Last time I checked most furry's had very little in the way of lives outside furdom. Guess all those saturday evenings spent at home paid off, course the rich ones just buy their fursuits.

Jerry Collins · Posted: 7/25/2003 6:20:32 PM Post subject: cute suits

Re fursuiters:nothing new to me,it's a mix of skilled hobbists and spooky hackneyed talentless goofs.some who have the time,talent,and resources can make some rather spiffy stuff,or if they have the vision,but not the skills,hire a professional costumer to create their character/alt.persona.But as to people getting sexy with each other in critter suits is not strictly a phurri phenominon.People in the Leather/latex fetish / b.d.s.m. community have been doing the pony girl/pony boy schtickLONG before fur fandom,and long AFTER the phurries are history.One the best known gals in the ponygirl scene is a German lady named Sylvia(she also does the rubber submissive/dominatrix bit too)what honks me off is that a lot of the phurri fans do NOT display the discreet,mature,and responsible spirit as the Rubber/Leather fetishists!(there's a semi-pro 'zine called EQQUS EROTICUS,good to fair photos of folks,mostly ladies,in their "Horse Drag",weird,but fun!not bad for a small budget girlie magazine)so there ya' go gang!nothing new,and the phurries didn't invent it first!And ther are probably more Sylvia fans growing in number as we speak!clip-clop,clip-clop!(anybody got a sugar cube?carrot?)

Jerry Collins · Posted: 7/25/2003 6:28:35 PM Post subject: Heem sooo stoopids!

ACH DU LIEBER!CRUD!CRAP! I just saw what I just typed above,(ahhk!typos,bad grammar,God bless the American Educational systems..eesh!) I hope you guys can make sense of the mess.sorry,I'm a cartoonist,not a Journalist.(argh,damn my ignorance and mortal fraility!) see ya' on the flip-side hep cats!(Jerry)

Rusty · Posted: 7/25/2003 6:57:17 PM Post subject:

What you guys have said pretty much sums up how I feel.

Maybe if one were close to me that was big enough that I could go in 'normal' clothes and keep a low profile, I might go to out of curiosity. But flying halfway accross the continent, no, maybe if I was visting relatives in that part of the country maybe but otherwise, no.

Benjamin · Posted: 7/25/2003 11:26:55 PM Post subject:

Further Confusion is held in San Francisco and that general area.

As for the other answers, I agree... Fursuiting is a hobby like any other. Model railroading, bottle cap collecting, drawing, whatever... Most people have free time somewhere, so you just have to pick up your hobby and do a bit of work on it whenever you can.
As for attending cons, yeah... You generally just go to the ones you can afford. A lot of furs go to meet up with their buddies that they otherwise can't see, and to to do other things, like buy furry-specific stuff and attend workshops that the con offers or whatever. You have to be into furry to really understand it or expect to enjoy the fandom, or even it's cons for that matter. The RV con is a good example of that. ;)

Benjamin

mouse · Posted: 7/26/2003 6:03:46 AM Post subject: anthrocon

this was a thread on google about sakai supposed to be @ ac'04:

[url>http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm=Xns93C0C418F9401woofwoofwoof%40204.152.186.145&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26group%3Dalt.fan.furry

"Doodles" <doodles8@cheesies.pacbell.net> wrote in
news:bfk77i$31q$1@raccoon.fur.com:

> Now that this year's ACD is over, have the dates for next year's con
> been announced? I ask because I already know that ComicCon
> International will be the 22nd through 25th of July, 2004 and I wonder
> if the same conflict from this year will take place again.

According to the flyer for Anthrocon 2004, it's going to be July 9-11, 2004
at the Adam's Mark Philadelphia. Guests of Honor are Michel Gagne', author
of "The Story of Rex," "Frenzied Fauna," and "Insanely Twisted Rabbits"
(http://www.gagneint.com/) and some guy named Stan Sakai who did a comic
about bunnies or something :-) (http://www.usagiyojimbo.com/)

-Duncan da Husky

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Brady, aka Duncan da Husky http://duncandahusky.livejournal.com
duncan@wolfhusky.org http://www.technomancer.com/~duncan/
Post a follow-up to this message

also this post on flayrah about attendance @ this years AC '03

Interestingly enough...
by Tlaren on Jul 21, 2003 - 12:40 PM
(User info | Send a message)

My boyfriend went to AC and when they took an official count, they came up with 1,994 furs... I''m thinking that they had a little over 2000 at one point though.

Pretty sizable... and very cool!

1994!!

the more people that go , the more that are gonne get drawn out to going also , especially since it seems this is becoming THE con to be at

they are already talking about splitting it between 2 hotels (i think it was already liek that this year)
not quite convention center material yet though

Anonymous · Posted: 7/26/2003 6:10:19 AM Post subject:

hey, just a guest, might register later. basically i'm just another person who's totally disillusioned with furry, but anyways...

fursuiters: my roommate was building a fursuit. Apparently it doesn't take all that much time as you may think, and he did it all after work for several hours at a time after a month or so. He does actually have a rather busy social life, so it's possible.

travel: i'm a practiced traveler, i know how to go to cons cheap as anything, plus since all my leisure income is devoted to traveling and adventuring instead of buying material things, it's entirely possible. how much do I make? not much, about $13/hour, so I'm no rich guy who can travel whenever he wants. Most of us con-goers choose local cons, so driving maybe 6 hours max. Using planes is only a once or twice a year deal, if at all. I went to my first 15+ cons using car and rail. I spend $250-$300 per con, but have done many much cheaper. I'm proud to boast I did 4-day comic con intl on less than $500 and I live on the east coast. I have secrets.

time off: if you have a normal work schedule, all you need to do is take friday off before the con weekend. let's say you have 2 weeks of vacation, you can spread out 5 of those days for 5 cons already. You travel on fri morning, and since cons usually suck after 1-2pm sunday, you might as well take the rest of the day going home. I don't have a normal work schedule, which means my con trips have been effectively cut 60% since I lost the m-f work week.

Saturdays are usually the best con day, so a great amount of people make cons a day trip and just come back sunday morning or even saturday night, especially those who have limited time/resources.

Also, artists who go actually might make up the money they spent to get there and might even turn a profit. My girlfriend made over $1000 at AC last weekend. Furries are possibly the biggest spenders I've ever seen of any type of fandom.

Many people simply cut every corner to do a con. They stay with friends/family, rideshare, coincide cons with major vacations in the area, etc.

I have been to 5 furry cons spread out over the 10 years of my knowledge of furry fandom. I only enjoyed the first couple I did, the last 2 were simply to be with my girlfriend. However, due to my apathy with furry art in the past 4 years, I've decided to stop doing that. Furry cons are not worth it. She can go alone from now on. I personally go to different type of cons other than furry.

Rusty · Posted: 7/26/2003 3:53:33 PM Post subject: Re: anthrocon

1994!!

the more people that go , the more that are gonne get drawn out to going also , especially since it seems this is becoming THE con to be at

they are already talking about splitting it between 2 hotels (i think it was already liek that this year)
not quite convention center material yet though

Yea, I guess the imagine of 'everyone went' is simply because I'm looking at opinions posted at places like yerf, so of course it's going to look like everyone went. If I were to go to a non realted site, I'm sure that if I asked people would be like 'anthro what? Never heard of it'.

1994 is a very healthy attendance but year, not quite big enough for a convention center, still more arround the level of a hotel and a smaller crowd going.

I have been to 'shows' at convention centers before but never really thought of them as a convention but they more or less were. Those can attract huge numbers of people and it's not unsual to see a friend or two there and it can seem like 'everyone went'. But in reality if one were to ask arround work on Monday, the vast majority of the people would be like 'didn't even know that was on' or 'didn't have the time'

Anonymous · Posted: 7/26/2003 10:01:59 PM Post subject:

Sorry, been meaning to register too, but wanted to post this real quick.

Funny thing. Heard from a few friends who went to AC that there was a convention booked for some large predominantly black Christian group immediately after AC. People began to show up for it on Sunday, which lead to some interesting things happening. One of them said they where in an elevator with somebody holding a giant piece of erotic art, that managed to nearly give 3 old ladies heart attacks.

Personally, I always avoided elevators at fur cons. For one furs have a bad habit of trying to cram as many overweight people into them as possible (the fact that some of them don’t shower is a nice little added bonus to the creaking sound that the elevator makes). And also there’s nothing worse then being stuck alone in the elevator wearing a con badge with one or more non con goers and getting interrogated about whatever horror they happened to witness downstairs.

Repomancer

. . . but what the hell.

Many people simply cut every corner to do a con. They stay with friends/family, rideshare, coincide cons with major vacations in the area, etc.

On the dear old Portal, MSG (the artist formerly known as Hangdog) cited a certain livejournal entry (Lord knows where he finds these things), the first one referenced herein, about a visit to Anthrocon where the protagonist went dumpster diving trying to feed six (IIRC) people so they would have cash enough left over for "stuff", a mysterious substance which (note the day and time of the masquerade vs. when the lj entry says it all started) kept them awake for at least thirty hours. NOW THAT'S SOME ECONOMIZING, THERE, GANG.

Not knockin' substance abuse here, having done my share and being wholly in favor of responsible recreational indulgence, but when DRUGS scores higher than either SHELTER or FOOD in your top-three list of priorities, well then, hummmm, it might time to re-think things. Just sayin'.

IT'S ALL ABOUT AN APPRECIATION OF ANTHROPOMORPHIC ANIMAL ART.

Sorry if I'm being inflammatory, but HO-LEE SHIT.

Jerry Collins · Posted: 7/26/2003 10:49:14 PM Post subject:

.....eesh,TYPICAL!a perfect example of skewed priorities a'la' PHURRI!!Even in my "git "days in the 80s,I drank a lot,and got stoned a lot(but alas,never "IRIE"..the blessed state of communing with the divine) and was pretty much a goof.but even then,blessed Ganja took a back seat to rent,food,and utilities.Getting blasted was less and less important to as I grew older.and if I was to seek the spirit side of the herb,I had to respect myself and the sacredness of Jah's gift...Now adays I'm too busy to get lit up,booze makes me sick,(it's a really bad idea getting ripped in front of your kids)And I don't want to give that bastard John Asskkkroft ANY excuse to take my kids away to d-facs HELL,throw me in the pit,or other "pink-boy"crap!Someday people will truly see each other as fellow beings,and not get hung up on the colour thing!Someday censorship will be no more!Someday the sacred Herb wil be legalized and accepted by (most)society.And someday,someday,even the phurries will be no more!.....Pray for that day brothers and sisters!Blessed be!(Jerry)

mouse

On the dear old Portal, MSG (the artist formerly known as Hangdog) cited a certain livejournal entry (Lord knows where he finds these things), the first one referenced herein, about a visit to Anthrocon where the protagonist went dumpster diving trying to feed six (IIRC) people so they would have cash enough left over for "stuff", a mysterious substance which (note the day and time of the masquerade vs. when the lj entry says it all started) kept them awake for at least thirty hours. NOW THAT'S SOME ECONOMIZING, THERE, GANG.

i woudlnt say you shouldnt have brought this up, but, i guess i dont understand what the point is? other than just pointing out there was drug use at a con. i dont think this type of behaviour is out of the ordinary at all -for any drug user (hard drugs). and depending on the drug, im thinking you might be hard pressed to actually come up with a behavior that is out of the ordinary. i saw/heard about some FUCKING BIZZARE SHIT in high school many times , trust me

im assuming this is some sort of amphetamine or coke, or crack or whatever, that they were using -if they were up for over 30 hours

i read a post maybe last year, when conway flipped out cuz supposedly some furries were using ecstacy at anthrocon

Repomancer · Posted: 7/26/2003 11:51:01 PM Post subject:

Meh. That's kinda why I meant by "it probably shouldn't be brought up". Ain't nothing whatsoever wrong with a little recreational drug use, as long as you keep things in proportion . . . hell, alcohol is ten times worse than pot in every way, and alcohol is legal, and I sincerely believe tobacco is more addictive than heroin. </rant> I have my vices, other people have theirs, nobody cares; all move by Jah love, every one.

I make it a point to spend the evenings at Game Developer's every year as completely bonged out as possible . . . and there is nothing more hilarious than mushrooms during the closing banquet especially when yer game wins game of the year and you have to go up on stage in front of a bunch of people who are breaking up into colorful trails and making you laugh uncontrollably like I had to do once but I digress.

That was the younger days anywho, and like Mr. Collins, I've slowed down, but I don't regret anything.

It was the DRUGS before FOOD bit that creeped me out. That just ain't right. You get a roof over you head, a bed to sleep in, something to eat, electricity/gas, and THEN you worry about the bong hits / lines / doses / beers.

Also: Hey Jerry, get Mike Hirtes to post on here again, if you can.

mouse · Posted: 7/27/2003 12:27:46 AM Post subject:

Meh. That's kinda why I meant by "it probably shouldn't be brought up". Ain't nothing whatsoever wrong with a little recreational drug use, as long as you keep things in proportion . . . hell, alcohol is ten times worse than pot in every way, and alcohol is legal, and I sincerely believe tobacco is more addictive than heroin. </rant> I have my vices, other people have theirs, nobody cares; all move by Jah love, every one.

well i completely agree with you here, outside of the cigarettes thing

It was the DRUGS before FOOD bit that creeped me out. That just ain't right. You get a roof over you head, a bed to sleep in, something to eat, electricity/gas, and THEN you worry about the bong hits / lines / doses / beers.

hmm i think we must have run with vastly different crowds here because this just hasnt been my experience at all...
ive known quite a few people who have had stints of being homeless, starving,doign *extremely* stupid things etc

one really good example is a kid who was a drug dealer (weed) got thrown out of his parents house i remember for maybe 4-6 months of a year he slept on a park bench in town every night. he usually had $1k-$2k in CASH on him at all times. he could have easily paid 2 months rent required and the security deposit and still had money to play with but he never did.

you always see crackheads that are thin as a rail. its such an appetite suppressant you can easily go without eating for an extended period of time. they dont care about anything...other than more crack

as far heroine, i dont even know what to say, youd have to be a first rate fucking moron to even try this shit...and i am extremely unapologetic about this statement

(just so no one gets the wrong idea here, i only smoked in high school, i never got into anythign else, especially hallucinogenics because i know my limits, in the sense i dont think i could really handle that....last thing you ever want to happen is get sent to med center psyche ward here, i have NEVER seen anyone come out of there completely intact , they are NEVER the same again - this happened to a good friend of mine)

Jerry Collins · Posted: 7/27/2003 5:02:06 AM Post subject: better living through chemistry

I'm a little jealous of some folks who,all they have to"cop a buzz"is breathe!God bless those innocents!As to me,Chemical high is an ironic statement!When I was a kid(about13) I was declared "hyper-active",so the doctors,shrinks,and teachers decided"Hey Jerry!you need THORAZINE!"yep!thorazine(a substance that was developed in the 1940sfor use on violent inmates at prisons for the criminally insane)so for 2years9months,at3 times a day,500 mm per dose,(this being the 1970s)Yours truly was aCHEMO-ZOMBIE!!!!years afterward,the crap screwed me up so much that it took me years to get anything remotely resembling a"life"(a lot of my memory retrevial is screwed.)I have no love for the guy that invented this crap...And the same bunch of self-righteous idiots make it a crime to love the "Herb"..And my conservative friends (and tea-totaling liberal friends too)wonder why I'm soooooo bitter.Hey,just a thought..WHAT IN HELLWAS THE ORIGINAL THREAD????I'm compleatly confused!!!don't mind me,I'm tired,God bless all here,blessed be.(Jerry)

mouse · Posted: 7/27/2003 5:55:25 AM Post subject:

ya someone turned the fuckin brain-butchers loose in this country (U.S. at least), its really gotta stop, especially prescribing psycho-active drugs to kids

ritalin and all that other garbage

psychiatry is really a fake science and should be dismantled completely - its done way more harm than good

Repomancer · Posted: 7/27/2003 7:27:50 AM Post subject:

well i completely agree with you here, outside of the cigarettes thing

I know more people that have kicked heroin than cigarettes, and that is the honest unambiguous truth. However, that is, as you observe (and I admit) my own experience, not intended as a representative sample of the population at large, so whatever. A lot of that could be because a bad heroin habit fucks your life up faster than a bad tobacco habit - but still, there it is. I quit smoking the easy way: never lit up the first one. I am the most tolerant of nonsmokers; hell, girlfriend smokes, and I don't bag on her in the slightest for it. To the contrary: when she's on the rag and crampy, I go out to buy her smokes. That doesn't change my opinion that it's addictive as hell, but it ain't no thang.

you always see crackheads that are thin as a rail. its such an appetite suppressant you can easily go without eating for an extended period of time. they dont care about anything...other than more crack

That's my point. They don't care about anything, and when drugs come before food and shelter, IT JUST AIN'T RIGHT. Sorry if I didn't express myself clearly.

as far heroine, i dont even know what to say, youd have to be a first rate fucking moron to even try this shit...and i am extremely unapologetic about this statement

Zero argument from me here, bro, I am in complete agreement with you and I would not and will not never, ever touch the stuff in a million years. That's some baaad shit. Got a bunch of stories about it that are far too long to go into here, but all involved were, as you say, first rate morons.

...last thing you ever want to happen is get sent to med center psyche ward here, i have NEVER seen anyone come out of there completely intact , they are NEVER the same again - this happened to a good friend of mine)

Happened to more than one good friend of mine, and it's a horrible thing to watch.

Peece, my friend. I think we agree more than you realize. Again, I probably didn't express myself clearly, so apologies.

T Duncan: we are hideously off-topic at this point, sorry, conversation stops here.

-r

mouse · Posted: 7/27/2003 7:43:37 AM Post subject:

dude half of these threads got derailed horribly today

i just go with the flow

in the next thread over theres a guy practically swinging a broken bottle in the air
that was nice

Jerry Collins · Posted: 7/27/2003 4:32:18 PM Post subject: New topic?

Does anybodt remeber a1970s era underground cartoonist named Jim Mitchel?He did a fun little comix series called "smile"(The last I heard of him,he got busted in Mexico on Marijuana possion charges,did some time,got out and became an illustrator for a christian children's book publisher)Do any of you guys and gals know whay happened to the poor sod?I really enjoyed his stuff.(Jerry)

Repomancer · Posted: 7/28/2003 12:22:28 AM Post subject: Re: New topic?

Does anybodt remeber a1970s era underground cartoonist named Jim Mitchel?He did a fun little comix series called "smile"(The last I heard of him,he got busted in Mexico on Marijuana possion charges,did some time,got out and became an illustrator for a christian children's book publisher)Do any of you guys and gals know whay happened to the poor sod?I really enjoyed his stuff.(Jerry)

Is this the guy? He worked on Mech 2, which was my pet project at Activision (me = designer, concept, lead programmer), back in the bad old days. I know he did comic stuff way back, but hadn't heard any of the other details.

If so: small world, my friend. Small, small world.

Jerry Collins · Posted: 7/28/2003 2:44:47 AM Post subject: re: JimMitchell

It could be,it looks like his style..I'm not certain.(btw:I have a p.s.1 copy of Mech.Warrior2) it could very well be the gent.

Anonymous

I've never been to a convention so I don't know what they are really like, but I have heard about them and find myself wondering some things.

1) Fursuiters

Okay, furry cons are going to have fursuiters and that's that but I do wonder, how do these people have the time to make a fursuit? I mean, don't these people have jobs, lives, families or other obligations that would make building such a costume out of the questions?

2) Travel

Travel in this day and age is expensive. To me it would seem like traveling half way accross the country just to spend 2 days ata convention then flying back home would be cost prohibitive. I mean if you live in the city a con is in then that's diffrent, but going to the expence of flying and getting a hotel just for a convention? I mean if you are spening a week or two in a city on business or visiting relaltives and you have a 'free day' and decide to spend it at a 'con' just for the fun of it, that's fine but spending all that money just for a con?

3) Time off

Don't these people have jobs? I mean they must have jobs to be able to afford the expense of flying over and such. But how do they get the time off? Generally to be fully prepared and such you'd need to fly over on a Friday, get settled in so your fully ready and such on Saturday and Sunday then you fly home on Sunday night or on Monday then back to work on Tuesday. Is it really worth taking 2 days off just for a con?

Sorry if I offend or bother anyone, these are things I've often wondered aboyt cons and with Anthrocon being this past weekend, the way people in the 'fandom' are talking it sounds like 'everyone went' and that is what confuses me.

I think you missed the point about people going to these things. It's because they DO have a life for the most part. They are going to a convention not because they have to or are obligated to go, but because they want to.

"""""I mean, don't these people have jobs, lives, families or other obligations""""

This is what I'm talking about. I think it's good for a person to persue his interests, whatever it may be, even if he is under those conditions you mention.

David · Posted: 7/29/2003 7:47:03 PM Post subject: Re: New topic?

Does anybodt remeber a1970s era underground cartoonist named Jim Mitchel?He did a fun little comix series called "smile"(The last I heard of him,he got busted in Mexico on Marijuana possion charges,did some time,got out and became an illustrator for a christian children's book publisher)Do any of you guys and gals know whay happened to the poor sod?I really enjoyed his stuff.(Jerry)

Is this the guy? He worked on Mech 2, which was my pet project at Activision (me = designer, concept, lead programmer), back in the bad old days. I know he did comic stuff way back, but hadn't heard any of the other details.

Did you catch wind of any sales figure fiddling or skulduggery on the part of management while you were there?
I read in the financial section of the newspaper that several Games publishers have been tweaking around the status at which they accept a game as returned, Thus attempting to boost their sales or revenue figures in a dangerous game of “encourage the investor” and generally doing naughty things innumerable.
It’s like the revolution in movie marketing after jaws, i.e to avoid the word of mouth stuff.

WHS smith having been trying to do the same thing IIRC, with books and that nearly got their books cut off by the suppliers.

Computolio · Posted: 7/30/2003 7:03:20 AM Post subject: Re: New topic?

Does anybodt remeber a1970s era underground cartoonist named Jim Mitchel?He did a fun little comix series called "smile"(The last I heard of him,he got busted in Mexico on Marijuana possion charges,did some time,got out and became an illustrator for a christian children's book publisher)Do any of you guys and gals know whay happened to the poor sod?I really enjoyed his stuff.(Jerry)

Is this the guy? He worked on Mech 2, which was my pet project at Activision (me = designer, concept, lead programmer), back in the bad old days. I know he did comic stuff way back, but hadn't heard any of the other details.

If so: small world, my friend. Small, small world.

Waait a sec.. You worked on one of the Mechwarior games? That's news to me. Gotta play one of those sometime.

Rusty · Posted: 7/30/2003 7:31:33 AM Post subject:

No legging!

Repomancer · Posted: 7/31/2003 12:22:34 AM Post subject: Re: New topic?

Did you catch wind of any sales figure fiddling or skulduggery on the part of management while you were there?
I read in the financial section of the newspaper that several Games publishers have been tweaking around the status at which they accept a game as returned, Thus attempting to boost their sales or revenue figures in a dangerous game of “encourage the investor” and generally doing naughty things innumerable.

No. Those were much simpler times - almost certainly nothing underhanded was going on then. I left in '95, when there were still actually people in management who had played the occasional game, instead of a bunch of MBAs who could care less what the product is; shoes, commodity futures, videogames, it's all the same to them. Not that I'm knocking that approach - they have been quite successful since - but it doesn't surprise me if there's skullduggery going on now. A lot of people's thinking has changed from "beat the competition with a superior product" to "baffle the investors to inflate the stock price".

When I started (eleven years ago tomorrow!) there were about 35 people there. I was the only full-time programmer; one other person was programming, and he spent a lot of time with his management hat on. When I left, it was pushing 300, the best qualification for project managers (excuse me, "producers") was if they had been to film school, and all the fun had been sucked out. Soon after, they killed all in-house development, because it's easier to cut a contractor loose than an employee, and budget problems belong to the conractor, not the company. Well, business is business.

Duncan - "worked" on it is a bit of an understatement, but you'll have to wait for my memoirs for the whole sordid story, which will be finished Real Soon Now. "Rammed It Down Their Throats Against Incredible Opposition" is more accurate - but heh. MW2 sold more than the Microsoft sequels, which is fine with me. Didn't make much off it directly, but it's on my resume.

But we digress. Topic? JIM MITCHELL. Jerry, you still think it's him?

-r

Anonymous · Posted: 8/6/2003 10:11:18 AM Post subject:

Repo, you worked on MechWarrior 2? Damn, kudos to you! I was bloody obsessed with that game for the longest time. Kicked off a damn fine franchise, even if it IS owned by M$ these days.

As for fursuits, to be honest, I'd like to rig up a specific outfit --- a unicorn in a tweed professorial suit. With a WIDE range of facial expressions that would prolly require so many servos as to be insane. I'd want to be able to make a face on the inside of the mask and have it reasonably translated to the outside --- arching eyebrows, swiveling ears, curling mouth.

And all so I could perform Tom Lehrer's "Lobachevsky"! -:D

"I have a friend in Minsk, who has a friend in Pinsk, whose friend in Omsk has friend in Tomsk with friend in Akmolinsk..."