Crush...Yiff...Destroy!

Michael Hirtes · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 519

http://fuku.catsonmars.com/

Tailgunner · Coadjutor Joined: 28 Oct 2003 Posts: 161

ROFL! I like these guys already!

As Mr.Poppinfresh said on www.waterlogged.waterthread.org:

"Furrydom is, in fact, a giant ego-protecting lie, designed to allow fat, ugly men to have sex with pale, skinny, ugly boys under the pretense that they prefer to do so with people dressed like farm animals."

No truer words have ever been spoken.

Source: catsonmars.com

creature · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Nov 2003 Posts: 132

I beleive I have offically scared the hell out of some friends with the cosplay pictures from that. It's... bad.

viron · Apocrisiary Joined: 04 Mar 2004 Posts: 49

ooh, i was looking for this! i found it a long time ago and really liked it except i never bookmarked it. yeah, i was talking about being a dealer at anime cons and how many i go to. Sure, i like anime, but i'm no nutjob about it. i watch it probably twice a month or so to keep up with old favs. i will, however, attest to a few things that differ anime fandom from furry fandom that makes me choose anime.

-anime is at least professional. there are some anime movies out there that are great. no furry professional shit exists out there that will match the anime. the only good furry entertainment that exists was NOT created for furry fans, it was created for children.
-anime at least HAS females in it, and quite a lot.. in fact, more than I've ever seen any fandom have. Annoying as many of them can be, there are a sheer huge amount in the fandom and statistically there's a better chance in that large group to be nice and attractive ones, many of which i have met and befriended.
-at least the majority of anime fans understand that they aren't actually anime characters with cartoon souls or whatever. Now, i have heard there are a few nutjobs that do, but compare that a huge amount of furries believe in some animal/spirit mumbojumbo but only a tiny amount of nutjob otaku do the same. at their worst, anime fans are just obsessively annoying fans, that's it.
-anime fans aren't going to cry about being FURsecuted and call people nazis and racists because people hate them, then illegally detain some people who hate anime in their car and force them to sign a document to be nice to them. they get pissed at people who hate anime, but so what? they don't accuse them of being racists, they understand you can't do that just for a damn HOBBY.
-anime cosplayer vs fursuiter.. nuff said!
here's another one for you, as a bonus. hell, maybe cosplayers are crazy, but some of them are **ing hot.

but man, thanks for the link, i thought i'd never find that awesome website again!

M0us3_Zero · Coadjutor Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 209

here's another one for you, as a bonus. hell, maybe cosplayers are crazy, but some of them are **ing hot.

Agreed. Very hot.

As for the subject of this thread...

*sigh* Welcome to my world.

If there is one thing I cannot stand, is fat hairy guys dressed up like Ako from Project Ako.

You really want to know what is REALLY that smell though? It's the Pocky. Trust me, after a while, it's easy to have bad breath from all the pocky you ate decaying a hole through every tooth you got.

*smirks* I guess there is a little CYD in all of us.

Shmorky · Coadjutor Joined: 22 Nov 2003 Posts: 182

I've always enjoyed http://www.ecchi-attack.com and it's affiliates myself.

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

i will, however, attest to a few things that differ anime fandom from furry fandom that makes me choose anime.

-anime is at least professional. there are some anime movies out there that are great. no furry professional shit exists out there that will match the anime. the only good furry entertainment that exists was NOT created for furry fans, it was created for children.

uhm, ok, but if cartoon animal stuff wasnt done FOR furry fandom (which I agree with) then most Anime stuff wasnt done FOR anime fandom.

Thats common sense. These people all want to create something. Was Spirited Away done FOR anime fans? I doubt it..Miyazaki had a great idea for a story and did an awesome job with it. Meanwhile something like Gundam Wing bored me to tears within minutes. A lot of anime fans im sure like both of those. I hold everything to the same standard. And a lot of anime I have seen has been utter shit. I got out of it real fast when the titles I watched and disliked outnumbered the stuff I enjoyed 10 to 1 (easily)

The other half of the problem stems from the fandom creating stuff FOR the fandom strictly...that the stuff that REALLY sucks.
And anime has it too.

Any illusion that Anime fandom is anything other than a meta-genre (much in the way furry fandom is considered) should be shattered by now. What are these people fans of? Imports? transparent bangs? contemporary japanese cartoonistry? Anime fandom can encompass anything in the exact same way furry fandom could. you could take any given plot and animate or draw it in either style. Thats the proof of this.

Im still at a loss as to why people want to do superhero hero comics, or giant robots fighting in space anime-styled cartoons...its all done, over with, and beaten to death already.. give it up. At least all the porno stuff has a purpose that isnt going to get worn out.

Tailgunner · Coadjutor Joined: 28 Oct 2003 Posts: 161

Well, even in porno, there are things that get worn out and shows how worn out it is. :}

viron · Apocrisiary Joined: 04 Mar 2004 Posts: 49

uhm, ok, but if cartoon animal stuff wasnt done FOR furry fandom (which I agree with) then most Anime stuff wasnt done FOR anime fandom.

Thats common sense. These people all want to create something. Was Spirited Away done FOR anime fans? I doubt it..Miyazaki had a great idea for a story and did an awesome job with it. Meanwhile something like Gundam Wing bored me to tears within minutes. A lot of anime fans im sure like both of those. I hold everything to the same standard. And a lot of anime I have seen has been utter shit. I got out of it real fast when the titles I watched and disliked outnumbered the stuff I enjoyed 10 to 1

they are at least done with anime fans in mind, in japan at least. also they do have american fans in mind these days now that it's so popular over here. if you follow the fandom a little, you can notice that japanese animators even do things just to please anime fans on many occassions.

And i'm not too sure about this, but isn't pioneer a company that produces anime and very purposefully keeps american fans in thought when they make shows? I heard that a long time ago but i'm not sure. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case for lots of companies in japan. considering all the japanese people who come to america and meet the american fans and ask their opinions on things, you'd think they would. I've sat in on plenty of Q&A sessions at cons and the thing I hear the japanese do a lot is ask american fans what they want in terms of products, content, and other stuff like such.

In fact, i believe one of the latest debate in anime is something like the american companies bringing out stuff in america to please all the fans and make money off them rather than utilizing quality control to translate only the best stuff. They are noticing the anime fandom is growing so big that they are responding to it in kind. i have no opinion on that, but that is proof enough to me that all the companies are thinking of the fans.

Also the fact that there are a whole gaggle of anime conventions that are run entirely by anime companies and big biz corporations (like suncoast video and stuff). Don't tell me that they aren't producing for anime fans, those fans are their bread and butter and they know it and they DO pander to them. Furry has no such similar things. Name one corporate-run convention or event for the furry fandom designed to get their money and loyalty to their products. Hell, paramount's kings dominion has a corporate run anime fan day at one of their theme parks.

i will agree that i only like 1 out of every 10 things i ever watch on anime. I personally believe a lot of it sucks, but at least there are things that are decent. there is nothing in furry that's worth shit. furry is a fandom of a fandom. They are fans of mostly amateur content producers and they only latch onto entertainment such as looney tunes that is not made with their fandom in mind at all. It's not a fandom of a substantial big biz that with real money, real projects, and other stuff - that's what i'm getting at. Anime fandom is just the same as SF fandom, they have real movies and books and stuff that they can worship, and those things are made with their fans in mind. Whether or not anime is good is irrelevant, it is all "high quality" and "pro" if you get my idea.

yes, anime fandom creates content for itself in horrible fanart, doujinshi (some of which is actually decent), 'tardo fanfic and such, but the equivalent of that in furry fandom is ALL that exists. Anime fans can get together and petition a company to make something and be considered. furry has no such voice or pull at disney or whatever. no one cares about furries. Businesses do care about anime fans even if just for their money.

Anime, SF, Fantasy, tabletop gaming and all that, they are all very broad fandoms 'just like furry' is.

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

In japan, Anime is just thier own cartoons, the same way here in the states the shit that is on during the week WB or whatever is just cartoons. American anime fans have some sort of cultural aspect involved. I mean I sure a lot of people just like that Japanese style..but that style is the Japanese take on Disney...so there ya go..

there is nothing in furry that's worth shit. furry is a fandom of a fandom. They are fans of mostly amateur content producers and they only latch onto entertainment such as looney tunes that is not made with their fandom in mind at all. It's not a fandom of a substantial big biz that with real money, real projects, and other stuff - that's what i'm getting at.

Well, if there was nothing I wouldnt even be here because I never would have looked any farther than I did. But there are things in fact that furry fandom CAN lay claim to, at least partially. Projects and things where, at the time, the creators were actively involved in furry fandom.

There's the 'big 3'
Critters, Captain Jack, Albedo..comic books

A lot of other projects from Animators and artists.
Ken Mitchrooney, Stan Sakai and Milton Knight are people who I would say at one point were at least marginally involved in furry fandom. Phil Foglio, and many others. I have fanzines with these people in there.

and it would be foolish to say there are NO good artists in furry fandom and that there is NO good art coming directly out of furry fandom.

It does not have as much as anime...but anime fandom inflated , furry fandom has not..at least not in the sectors were you would see forms of sponsorship. Furry fandom is probably growing. But a lot of people are not being attracted to any creative aspect. Thereis probably a lot of growth strictly on the internet. Its my personal opinion that only practical function of any fandom would be on the same level as a local music scene. Its a starting point for people. That may not be how it (furry fandom) works today...but the way I see it , the mechanisms of a fandom function best in this capacity. They tend to have thier own publishers..or publishers pre-disposed to print/publish relevant material - by doing that - more people see it. the more people see it, the more people can decide if they like it or not. Its far better to have someone see your stuff and hate it than never see it at all. If something is REALLY good it can take off from there. I used to hang around my local music scene, it was what I did. And this is how it always works..I fail to see many differences in any 'art scene'. They can function identically. Now, Furry Fandom is starting to take on more traits of a fetish subculture...but its still split fairly evenly. As I've said before..if it DOES completely become a fetish subculture most likely you will be able to tell the instant the 3 furry publishers fold. Mainly just because this will show that it REALLY isnt about any type of creative work anymore. Shit, at that point I think you will probably see a hell of a lot more people leaving furry fandom. Moreso than normal. A lot of costumers will probably leave along with everyone. Because seriously, as funny as the whole 'fursuit sex' thing is concerned. Sorry, I just hear 'it isnt about the sex' WAY too often to write it off as total BS. Furry fans are anything but subtle when it comes to this type of thing (and that should be painfully obvious to anyone, just look at half the links posted on here on any given day).

Anime fans can get together and petition a company to make something and be considered. furry has no such voice or pull at disney or whatever. no one cares about furries. Businesses do care about anime fans even if just for their money.

Well, the animation industry is in the toilet in this country far as I understand. 'Anime' is protected from that because ..it isn't here...its rooted in Japan.

You also have to consider ..what would a furry cartoon be? using the old definition they already have that. Want adult material? Its already been done (e.g. Duckman).

Anyway, where I will agree with you the part I hate or find most aggravating about furry fandom..more than anything else is just how incompetant far too many furries are..too fucking lazy to do anything or to accomplish anything. These people who sit there and upload thousands of pic of thier characters to thier galleries should have realized a while ago they arn't moving at all. They are free to do whatever they want to do, but it seems to me , the only reason I would ever want to be able to draw would be to be able to create something that people could enjoy, or that could mean something to someone...or have some kind of purpose. Im talking about people who don't even need to improve. They can't write and assemble a story and illustrate it...cant take the time to find a writer (theres a bunch of them all over furry fandom). They have just lost all scope beyond the boundaries of furry fandom. What I said before about it being a starting point is important here, because a 'furry' artist should be using the fandom as a foundation. They KNOW fury fans are more inclined to like thier work. They SHOULD be trying to sell it to others - not the fucking fandom that already wants to buy thier product. In the business sense, yes, furries are complete fucking morons. Whether or not it will ever succeed is not imporant really, I would say though that furry fandom failures ar a result of circumstance (and in many cases stupidity on the part of certain fans at critical times)...but not content.

All those 400 page hentai phonebooks 'o porn dont seem to slow anime fandom down at all.

viron · Apocrisiary Joined: 04 Mar 2004 Posts: 49

i guess the thing i wanted to get across was that anime companies do creates with their audience in mind. however it comes out, whether its mindless drivel on wb or whatever, that's always the plan because the fans are the money. they decide what to produce based on how they perceive fans' desires are. it's all in the money. whereas with furry, they have to latch onto other things that aren't "theirs" in a sense. If something happens to be animal related is enough for them. no one's ever said, 'hey, there's this large amount of peopel who like anthromorphic animals, lets do movie x or tv show x for that fan base and get money out of them". If anything, they have to create for just people who like cartoons in general everytime.

There's the 'big 3' Critters, Captain Jack, Albedo..comic books.... and it would be foolish to say there are NO good artists in furry fandom and that there is NO good art coming directly out of furry fandom.

I'll certainly grant you that. I loved all the old stuff... but those guys don't do anything anymore and frankly i ain't seen nothing that matches them in these days. Those guys were creating under the whole 'funny animal' banner. they knew about hte furry fandom and were part of it but at the same time you know they were attmepting to reach general comics audiences as well. Furry companies still try to do that now but i don't think it's a good effort.
I also believe there are plenty of very skilled artists in the fandom but my point is that it's a fandom that's kind of in a stasis even though the membership grows in number. all fandoms are the same as you've pointed out. but furry is different because they just.. don't really have anything to look up to, nothing to aspire to. no "professional" goal exists, only to pander to other furry fans. There's nothing to challenge them to do anything different. in that way, i've been of the opinion that all furry art pretty much is the same old shit that you can easily get tired of. i've always thought that until furry gets a "star wars" or "babylon 5" of their own to start momentum on professional furry entertainment, it's going to stay that way. compare that to SF fandom or anime fandom. Every once in a while, something the big companies produces inspires and/or creates an uproar that the fans can latch onto... or inspires the fans to do better. those fandoms are also varied enough to create lots of original stuff. Fandoms may stay the same in how they behave but the things they worship change and so the fandoms stay interesting. But that almost never happens in furry. furry, to me, is really bland.. and that's my point. i wonder HOW people stay interested in it. Maybe THAT's why they had to latch onto all these crazy-ass fetishes and stuff, to keep it interesting. becuase what the fuck else are furries going to do? furries have to latch onto either childrens entertainment or stuff that just so happens to have animals in it, and in most cases the animal characters aren't even the main focus. furries will go apeshit over final fantasy chocobos and that new bunny girl from FF12, but that's IT. that's the only kind of thing all they can hope for. They have to create damn lists telling where you can find animal characters in books or games or whatnot because aint' nothing been made for them. And guess what, every new thing that comes along is just another anthropomorphic character. ooh, big surprise.

You also have to consider ..what would a furry cartoon be? using the old definition they already have that. Want adult material? Its already been done (e.g. Duckman).

see, that's my point. that stuff has been created but obviously furries weren't ever in mind of the creators for any example similar to that. you already agreed with that but that's really the only point i was trying to get across... in that there's a difference between furry and any other fandom and how one audience is acknowledged and furry never is.
hell, why do we call furry a "fandom"? It's just a fetish or a preference for a type of character.

They KNOW furry fans are more inclined to like thier work. They SHOULD be trying to sell it to others - not the fucking fandom that already wants to buy thier product. In the business sense, yes, furries are complete fucking morons. Whether or not it will ever succeed is not imporant really, I would say though that furry fandom failures ar a result of circumstance (and in many cases stupidity on the part of certain fans at critical times)...but not content.

yeah, i'd definitely agree. furries have lost all sense of realism outside of their fandom. it's one big fucking orgy of inbred country folks. they can't comprehend past their community. i know plenty of artists that were wanting more but they claimed they knew at some point they'd reach a ceiling in furry, and there was no more audience or money to be gotten after they attained a certain celeb status inside the fandom. but you know, lots of furry artists have pandered to furries for so long that nothing they do will ever be acceptable to non-furry audiences, nor do they have any idea how to do so if needed.

Caz · Recusant Joined: 16 Apr 2004 Posts: 9

http://fuku.catsonmars.com/

I beleive I have offically scared the hell out of some friends with the cosplay pictures from that. It's... bad.

Read the about page and learned more on the vocabulary than I wanted to. And as much as I like certain animes (with a very specific taste aka Venus Wars/ Akira/ Spirited Away) and a lot of the art styles, I am now very afraid of the hardcore fans of the genre. And to think I had hopes of going to a local con.. I might still go just for the freak show.
It is something that has to be seen in person to believe that people actually dress up like that at conventions.

viron · Apocrisiary Joined: 04 Mar 2004 Posts: 49

http://fuku.catsonmars.com/

I beleive I have offically scared the hell out of some friends with the cosplay pictures from that. It's... bad.

Read the about page and learned more on the vocabulary than I wanted to. And as much as I like certain animes (with a very specific taste aka Venus Wars/ Akira/ Spirited Away) and a lot of the art styles, I am now very afraid of the hardcore fans of the genre. And to think I had hopes of going to a local con.. I might still go just for the freak show.
It is something that has to be seen in person to believe that people actually dress up like that at conventions.

there's a secret to going to anime cons. basically, just enjoy the cartoons and the general zaniness of it and totally ignore the fanboyish nature of the hardcore idiots. i go to them all the time and i never have problems. at those kinds of cons, it is easy just to focus on what you like. as a matter of fact, even though i sell anime trinkets, i keep the fandom at a nice arm's length away as well as actually not watched much anime except for a few new things each year and all of the old school stuff i liked as a kid. ignorance is bliss, lemme tell ya.

in fact, that's how i'd suggest handling any kind of fan convention.

you can't do that with furry cons. furries are all up in your face about being wackos. you simply can't avoid the nuttiness at those things because there's NOTHING else to do or see except those wackos. that's how i figured out i really never wanted to go back to one of those.

Caz · Recusant Joined: 16 Apr 2004 Posts: 9

http://fuku.catsonmars.com/

I beleive I have offically scared the hell out of some friends with the cosplay pictures from that. It's... bad.

Read the about page and learned more on the vocabulary than I wanted to. And as much as I like certain animes (with a very specific taste aka Venus Wars/ Akira/ Spirited Away) and a lot of the art styles, I am now very afraid of the hardcore fans of the genre. And to think I had hopes of going to a local con.. I might still go just for the freak show.
It is something that has to be seen in person to believe that people actually dress up like that at conventions.

there's a secret to going to anime cons. basically, just enjoy the cartoons and the general zaniness of it and totally ignore the fanboyish nature of the hardcore idiots. i go to them all the time and i never have problems. at those kinds of cons, it is easy just to focus on what you like. as a matter of fact, even though i sell anime trinkets, i keep the fandom at a nice arm's length away as well as actually not watched much anime except for a few new things each year and all of the old school stuff i liked as a kid. ignorance is bliss, lemme tell ya.

in fact, that's how i'd suggest handling any kind of fan convention.

Ignorance is bliss is what I live by. I hate any anime series, and mostly enjoy the actual animated movies.

This site and that otaku one are pretty damn informative on a few things, particularly con-going, which I've never done before. I'll consider it a bit of prepartion when we do plan on going out to any of 'em. The advice is noted and I'll try to take it.

you can't do that with furry cons. furries are all up in your face about being wackos. you simply can't avoid the nuttiness at those things because there's NOTHING else to do or see except those wackos. that's how i figured out i really never wanted to go back to one of those.

Its that bad huh?
I plan on attending at least ONE furry based con in my life, at least to sell an assload of art. Any prep about the wackos is good prep.

Michael Hirtes · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 519

Just a simple historical factoid to chew on:

"Back in the day", Mark Merlino once tried to use his position as co-founder of the C/FO (Cartoon/Fantasy Organization) to shove his radical gay agenda down anime fandom's collective throat. Needless to say, the otakus were not going to sit still for it, and promptly sent Marky back to Poofterville on a one-way ticket.

Soon after that, Merlino started to get involved into this small, still-obscure, but possibly-brimming-with-potential genre he had heard of known as "Furry fandom".

And well, you all know the rest of the tale.

Just imagine what might have happened to the genre of anime had Merlino been allowed to mess it up instead of furry? Is it possible that furry fandom could have had it's own corporate sponsorship and big-ass chunk on the Cartoon Network timeslot, and anime fandom would be the ones getting featured on C.S.I.?

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

i guess the thing i wanted to get across was that anime companies do creates with their audience in mind. however it comes out, whether its mindless drivel on wb or whatever, that's always the plan because the fans are the money. they decide what to produce based on how they perceive fans' desires are. it's all in the money. whereas with furry, they have to latch onto other things that aren't "theirs" in a sense. If something happens to be animal related is enough for them.

Right, Im just saying the use of anthropomorphics is not limited to anything in particular. When Reed Waller's Omaha came out it was in some sort of Anthology called 'Bizarre Sex'. So, I doubt it was out of place and horrifying to people who read it. It was picked up for its own comic from there, so obviously adult stories with cartoon animal characters arnt that off the wall. This was before there was any real furry fandom. If you didn't want to read somethign adult like that, you wouldn't pick up an adult anthology called 'bizarre sex'. (Or XXXenophile or whatever else) Most of the shit people bitch about that furry fandom 'produces' is webcomics and off the VCL....well there is no editing going on there. I've read a decent amount of furry comics, and the worst of what I have is no where near that level. Radio Comix isnt going to sink money into printing Stalag99. These guys might make it into a page or 2 of some fanzine but thats about it.

no one's ever said, 'hey, there's this large amount of peopel who like anthromorphic animals, lets do movie x or tv show x for that fan base and get money out of them". If anything, they have to create for just people who like cartoons in general everytime.

I think there actually IS a large amount of people who like anthropomorphic animals. When I first started looking into furry fandom. It seemed pretty logical. I had always liked cartoons with animals characters because it has an enitrely different feel to it and visual effect. Sadly, furry fandom was the only attempt at organization of any kind.

either way, if Iliked doing science fiction and I wrote a novel, I would probably start off in the science fiction fandom and go from there. I wouldnt write a science fiction novel to make money from selling it to science fiction fans if that wasnt what I wanted to do...do you see what I mean? If I write a comic with funny animal characters in it... part of my fanbase lands in the furry fandom. Thats what they like - there is no problem here, thats just the way it is. The only time things become a problem is when an artist goes too far with that and gets trapped by it. I believe this happened to Mike Curtis's Shanda. You put in too much fandom reference and only fans can read it because its all jargon to anyone else. Its the difference between fannish anime and the stuff that was really good. The stuff that was great (like Caz mentioned, Spirited Away and Akira - 2 favs) was probably extremely close to the artists vision with little comprimise. Also those people were talented. There is plenty of ways anthropomorphic characters can be used. Personally I really like Blacksad. Those guys have nothing to do with furry fandom. Thats adult funny animals right..is it furry?

Other than the fact more serious/talented/capable artists are leaving furry fandom..there is really no intrinsic reason furry fandom couldnt come out with something like that. Theres people talented enough, but not driven. As far as Blacksad itself, I wouldnt have known about it until much later than I did if furry fans had not picked up on it. I was trying to get it for a while before it came out here (U.S.). It was a lot of furry fans that were talking about it and they were the ones importing it (that I could find, at the time google returned nothing but foreign sites). I was about to buy a german one through 2prg.com or through amazon France or UK before it got enough attention that it was translated to english and there were US copies available.

This stuff doesnt consume my life..so Im not really at a geek level of knowledge or involvement in cartoons or comics of any kind...the first place I heard about Blacksad was 'Herbie' made some mention of it..I believe in his art book that was published by that minnesota co. that does Tai-pan. So I cant really stay that up to date. Sometimes fandom style information can be useful. You had mentioned the lists of anthropomorphic material that filter out through furry fandom and thats basically why I hang around the fandom at all. Its usefull compiled information (IMO), furry fandom comics would be on that list too. I personally like funny-animals more than other styles of comic. Similiar to the way if I was going to see a movie I would want to select what type of movie I would want to go see because I simply cant go to see everything.

There's the 'big 3' Critters, Captain Jack, Albedo..comic books.... and it would be foolish to say there are NO good artists in furry fandom and that there is NO good art coming directly out of furry fandom.

I'll certainly grant you that. I loved all the old stuff... but those guys don't do anything anymore and frankly i ain't seen nothing that matches them in these days.

There isnt, but there is really nothing saying there CANT be more. Doesnt look like it anytime in the near future but.. Personally I like a lot of what MU press puts out. Hugo was only scheduled for 2 comics.. which maybe thats becoming a little dated now..but their anthologies I like also. I also usually mention Mary Minch's Mice comics. She is going for a larger audience even though she is involved in furry fandom. She has a very finished and professional cartoon style and Mice #1 sounds like it will be a really cool adventure comic when it finally comes out. She had some comic of hers in the LuLu anthology. Not too many people in furry fandom do that, which is kind of dissapointing. I don't mind on keeping up to date on what is upcoming from small and independent anthropomorphic publishers. I tend to like more DIY projects and underground comics. Stuff that not everyone reads, so Im sure thats part of it too.

Those guys were creating under the whole 'funny animal' banner. they knew about hte furry fandom and were part of it but at the same time you know they were attmepting to reach general comics audiences as well. Furry companies still try to do that now but i don't think it's a good effort.

Right again on they are doing it now but not a good effort. The only thing I'm curious about then is, in what way do you differentiate between funny-animal and furry ?
I will only draw the line where the creator or publisher is actively affiliated somehow with furry fandom. I don't feel that it nessesarily has to be bad either. Basically I'm not going to pigeon-hole some artist because they are involved with a fandom that has a bad reputation. If what they do is good, cool.

I also believe there are plenty of very skilled artists in the fandom but my point is that it's a fandom that's kind of in a stasis even though the membership grows in number. all fandoms are the same as you've pointed out. but furry is different because they just.. don't really have anything to look up to, nothing to aspire to. no "professional" goal exists, only to pander to other furry fans.

all I would point out here is this is all individual issues and short-sightedness. Whether a fandom naturally fosters these things..I dont know.
There is a lot of people there for all kinds of different reasons. There ARE still some animation people around, but not many. Far as I know there are currently furries holding animation jobs at SpumCo, WB, and Disney

The solution for a lot of these people is very simple: "get your shit together"

i wonder HOW people stay interested in it. Maybe THAT's why they had to latch onto all these crazy-ass fetishes and stuff, to keep it interesting. becuase what the fuck else are furries going to do? furries have to latch onto either childrens entertainment or stuff that just so happens to have animals in it, and in most cases the animal characters aren't even the main focus. furries will go apeshit over final fantasy chocobos and that new bunny girl from FF12, but that's IT. that's the only kind of thing all they can hope for.

Well, I think most of that that goes on is stupid. But there is anthropomorphic stuff hat comes out all the time. Big stuff...Even me liking anthropomorphic animals doesnt mean I am going to automatically like something. I've never bought into that. I have no desire to see 'brother bear' or 'finding nemo' or whatever anthropomorphic disney has shit out lately.

Mitch · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 290

ROFL! I like these guys already!

As Mr.Poppinfresh said on www.waterlogged.waterthread.org:

"Furrydom is, in fact, a giant ego-protecting lie, designed to allow fat, ugly men to have sex with pale, skinny, ugly boys under the pretense that they prefer to do so with people dressed like farm animals."

No truer words have ever been spoken.

Source: catsonmars.com

That "Kemotaku" piece is priceless, and the icing on the cake is that some humor-impaired folk on alt.fan.furry are taking it completely seriously :)

ZenZhu · Coadjutor Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 475

Im still at a loss as to why people want to do superhero hero comics, or giant robots fighting in space anime-styled cartoons...its all done, over with, and beaten to death already.. give it up. At least all the porno stuff has a purpose that isnt going to get worn out.

Actually, there are things in porno that get worn out.....

-The tape where you've been doing visual rewind back and forth to view the money shot over and over

-The spine of magazine as it's folded back, time and again

-The pages of the magazine where you accidentally got a little overzealous (also worn out from being pried apart where they stuck

-The lips on yer Farah Fawcett poster (dated joke, but I dunno who the kids are into these days.... Paris Hilton.. Hillary Duff... uh... er... hmm..... Morgan Freeman....)

-The mouse button from cycling through your archives on your hard drive (or the arrow keys... thank you XP for giving us a picture viewer we can scroll through porn easily with)

Just as a tidbit, there is one instance of an anime studio producing a work with an American audience in mind. Big O did terribly in Japan, but had a pretty good following in the U.S. through CN's Adult Swim. Originally, the series was cancelled after the first season. But, there was such a demand for it in the U.S. that a second season was done and tailored more for American viewership. I don't remember the wording, but at the time I read about this, it almost sounded like it was "dumbed down" for American audiences. Of course, now the fans are bitching for a 3rd season, because the finale of the second season didn't seem to make much sense.

Between anime and furry, I think I chose anime more on its specific content than furry stuff. The furry stuff I see is really more furry incidentally. I went to see Brother Bear for the landscaping and overall animation rather than for the story that, personally, sounded like a furry wet-dream from the first preview. I'm sure a lot of furries tuned in to the premier of Wolf's Rain this Saturday solely because of the premise of the show. Conversely, it doesn't attract me on any level, furry, anime, or otherwise. So, the "furry" stuff I see really interests me on levels beyond anthros. About the only thing I really read that does use the characters' species as a vehicle is Kevin and Kell.

For anime, though, I do get drawn in more by the style and stuff that is more unique to anime. I enjoy Rurouni Kenshin because of the setting of early Japan, but also the artwork and characters. I like InuYasha just because I find it fun, even if repetitive. (I didn't bother to watch it this last run, as it's gotten old... but I am following the new episodes they just started.) I watch Furi Kuri (FLCL) because of the kind of zaniness that is a bit more unique to anime, and the wonderful animation. Other than that, though, I don't really follow much anime. I'm interested in Ai Yori Aoshi, but not enough to pay $30 for a DVD... and if Naruto ever comes out, I might purchase the first DVD just to see what it's like. But, beyond stuff that catches my interest in either art, story, or uniqueness (I wasn't a fan of Lain, but I had to watch once, just for the WTF factor).

My wife liked Witch Hunter Robin, much to her surprise. She used to be anti-anime, one of her high-school boyfriends having been an otaku. But, she warmed up to it, and I warmed back up to it when it became more accessible. Anyway, she likes WHR because it's very similar to the X-Files, which she enjoyed.

viron · Apocrisiary Joined: 04 Mar 2004 Posts: 49

Right, Im just saying the use of anthropomorphics is not limited to anything in particular. When Reed Waller's Omaha came out it was in some sort of Anthology called 'Bizarre Sex'. So, I doubt it was out of place and horrifying to people who read it. It was picked up for its own comic from there, so obviously adult stories with cartoon animal characters arnt that off the wall. This was before there was any real furry fandom. If you didn't want to read somethign adult like that, you wouldn't pick up an adult anthology called 'bizarre sex'. (Or XXXenophile or whatever else) Most of the shit people bitch about that furry fandom 'produces' is webcomics and off the VCL....well there is no editing going on there. I've read a decent amount of furry comics, and the worst of what I have is no where near that level. Radio Comix isnt going to sink money into printing Stalag99. These guys might make it into a page or 2 of some fanzine but thats about it.

Yeah, that's true. I think without editors you really can't get anything good out of the furry fandom or any fandom for that matter. But get this, even before the mainstreaming of the internet, the furry fandom, at least in my opinion, didn't really have that much that was good. Sure there were lots of pros out there that did some good stuff but i think there was such a stretch for talent that a lot of the people we would consider totally unprofessional or just crappy as artists or writers were able to be published by the few companies that catered to furry.

There was some brilliant stuff in the old "wild life" comics as well as critters, but take a look at genus and furrlough... really that hasn't changed much at all in its existence. It's had crappy art and writing for as long as i can remember. i bought that stuff a long time ago because i was looking for good animal cartoons, i'd gotten caught up in the whole TMNT craze at the time.. and look at shanda fantasy, they almost seem to use anyone with a pulse that exists in furry fandom. There's a couple of good things but mostly it's just horrid.

as for blacksad, i 've never heard of it. but if it's really 'morphic' or realistic i'm probably not going to be interested. just an example of what i like, i've been into kyle baker's Plastic Man recently. that's the kind of funny animal cartoons i like, very silly cartoony things. but i also like crazy adult content with funny animals such as UnFunnies. I liked albedo but almost purely on an SF basis. i was avoidant of it even when i was playing around in the furry fandom because the art was a bit too realistic.

if something is a furry fan thing but it's actually good, then i'm all for it. but IMO i just haven't seen that in almost forever.

She had some comic of hers in the LuLu anthology. Not too many people in furry fandom do that, which is kind of dissapointing

that's sad, and also why i feel the way i do on furry fandom. they aren't paying any attention to things like top shelf or oni or any of the bigger "small" press companies, even if they call for anthology submissions. for the most part, anyways. like i mentioned before, they seem to only be interested in pandering to each other rather than attempt to expand their horizons.

Computolio · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 349

I've always enjoyed http://www.ecchi-attack.com and it's affiliates myself.

I also loved Cosplay Hell back in the day. Anyone remember it? The later articles were absolutely GODLY.

M0us3_Zero · Coadjutor Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 209

Just a simple historical factoid to chew on:

"Back in the day", Mark Merlino once tried to use his position as co-founder of the C/FO (Cartoon/Fantasy Organization) to shove his radical gay agenda down anime fandom's collective throat. Needless to say, the otakus were not going to sit still for it, and promptly sent Marky back to Poofterville on a one-way ticket.

Soon after that, Merlino started to get involved into this small, still-obscure, but possibly-brimming-with-potential genre he had heard of known as "Furry fandom".

And well, you all know the rest of the tale.

Just imagine what might have happened to the genre of anime had Merlino been allowed to mess it up instead of furry? Is it possible that furry fandom could have had it's own corporate sponsorship and big-ass chunk on the Cartoon Network timeslot, and anime fandom would be the ones getting featured on C.S.I.?

Thank you GOD, for that didn't happen.

Just the vision of that bizarro world gives me the creeps...

Although F**king Otaku would be the CYD of that universe. (It is here.)