Crush...Yiff...Destroy!

whitefox · Recusant Joined: 13 Jun 2004 Posts: 1

Hello,

Just because someone 'heard' that Paul Kidd was in legal difficulties in OZ, doesn't necessarily mean that he actually IS. And by what I've seen here & on Google recalls on a.f.f., the rumour mill has been working overtime. Gossip (IMO), when spread, is a disease worse than AIDS - it can wreak reputations, much as it did in the '50s when Joseph McCarthy went on his (totally unjustified) witchhunt for (so-called) Communists, with his insane show-trial hearings etc. . As it has done with tabloid 'witchhunts', fuelling lynchmobs & so on (here in the UK, someone was assaulted for supposedly 'being' a paedophile, until it was revealed he was actually a PAEDIATRICIAN, or doctor who treats children's illnesses). So he once put up a photo of his daughter on a website (which doesn't exist anymore)- maybe he was proud of her and wanted to show her off to the world?! And as for the 'Itbit' & 'Happywriggles' thing, I suggest you actually READ "Fangs of K'aath", and find out the actual context of what this is all about (this smacks of when Muslims in the UK reacted to Salman Rushdie's "Satanic Verses"; almost ALL to a man hadn't actually READ it, blindly following what others had told them about it).

Finally, just four words: Innocent Until PROVEN Guilty.

m_estrugo · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Nov 2003 Posts: 160

Hello,

Just because someone 'heard' that Paul Kidd was in legal difficulties in OZ, doesn't necessarily mean that he actually IS.

The case is different. He actually IS in troubles. He actually has been not only accused, but he's been -convicted-. The sentence hasn't been decided yet, and the case is still waiting for appeals, but the truth is that he -is- in deep troubles. And this is no rumor.

And by what I've seen here & on Google recalls on a.f.f., the rumour mill has been working overtime. Gossip (IMO), when spread, is a disease worse than AIDS - it can wreak reputations, much as it did in the '50s when Joseph McCarthy went on his (totally unjustified) witchhunt for (so-called) Communists, with his insane show-trial hearings etc. . As it has done with tabloid 'witchhunts', fuelling lynchmobs & so on

I know perfectly of this case, and I have warned time after time that things like these could happen, sooner or later. I have said, time after time, that stuff like 'cub art' could be potentially dangerous, not only for the image of the furry fandom, as I thought on a first moment, but to individuals in specially restrictive laws.
I have made some research myself, and have found that in Australia, laws explicitly forbid any kind of sexualization of kids, even cartoons, so this kind of material is very dangerous for you if, by whatever reason it can be, authorities find it on your computer.

(here in the UK, someone was assaulted for supposedly 'being' a paedophile, until it was revealed he was actually a PAEDIATRICIAN, or doctor who treats children's illnesses).

If I remember correctly, in the mid 90s or so, there was a mob outraged by recent paedophilia cases on the UK, also vented by the paranoia some cheap media propagates. The mob found the office of this person and destroyed it before noticing the slight difference between paediatry and paedophilia. They apologized after they realized about it.

So he once put up a photo of his daughter on a website (which doesn't exist anymore)- maybe he was proud of her and wanted to show her off to the world?!

No. It was the -photo developer- who got the pictures to develop, saw naked kids, and thought this was paedophilia. It's very stupid, I know, but it alerted the authorities, who did a search on Mr. Paul's properties and found material deemed as illegal by the laws applying to the territory where he lives.

Finally, just four words: Innocent Until PROVEN Guilty.

The problem is that Mr. Kidd has been already proven guilty on a trial, and is waiting for his sentence and further appeals.
The problem is that, with Australian laws on the hand, Mr. Kidd has been found in a felony as described on his territory's criminal act, regardless on how silly or stupid that may sound at us non-Australians.
And the problem is that Mr. Paul Kidd is terribly, terribly embarassed at the very stupid reaction the furry fandom has shown... he had hoped to use the fandom as kind of a psychological support network -- a group of people he could rely on to help him feel better, to be there for him in his time of need. He thought that they loved him, and would take his side. Of course, you can see what he got... Between the foul bile of Hirtes and the chiming-in of everyone else who decided to be against him based on rumor, he's gotten little or no support from the fandom at all.

Computolio · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 349

Do we even know for sure if the drawings that are getting this man in trouble with the law are of a pedophilic nature?

Also: the McCarthyism analogy is really fucking retarded.

Michael Hirtes · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 519

Between the foul bile of Hirtes.....

I'll have you know that my bile comes in both cherry and bubblegum flavors.

(Okay, so maybe the bubblegum flavor is a bit wretched. But still, when bad things happen to furries, I have to smile about it. It's like asking a black person how he feels when he hears about a KKK march getting run over by a semi. :) )

And let's face facts here. Paul's woes are by and large self-inflicted. No one forced him at gunpoint to do the things he did that lead to his downfall. He's only got himself to blame.

It's all part of that complex furries have in their thinking that they are so superior to "teh mundanes" that they feel themselves above the law. Such as when it comes to kiddie pr0n, or even making blatant death threats on an open forum. These tards are truly criminally insane. It's only a matter of time before a furry con turns into it's own Columbine. The only question is how soon and at which con?

And, since someone invoked the spectre of HUAC:

"Have you no sense of decency, Furry Fandumb? At long last, have you no sense of decency?"

ZenZhu · Coadjutor Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 475

So he once put up a photo of his daughter on a website (which doesn't exist anymore)- maybe he was proud of her and wanted to show her off to the world?!

The photos in question are irrelevant at this point. What he's under fire for is having works that are considered illegal in his country of residence. The photos were a false alarm that set them onto the stuff they found that was incriminating. It's like a cop pulling a person over for having a busted tail light, and catching them smoking a joint and finding several empty, still cold beer bottles littering their passenger seat.

And as for the 'Itbit' & 'Happywriggles' thing, I suggest you actually READ "Fangs of K'aath", and find out the actual context of what this is all about

While many of us saw only one page of the comic, that one page was pretty hard to misconstrue. The girl wants to get into his harem to stuff her mouth all day, and her pussy all night. Granted, you can take it in the context of the time period it takes place in, and if someone wants to provide more of the comic online, I'll happily look it over and eat my words if other pages demonstrate the concept of an underage mousegirl wanting to "eat cakes all day" and "make happywriggles all night" is misguided. I won't, however, retract my statement that the text reads like the love child of Barney and Jar-Jar Binks.... that's just a pure opinion that I stand by.

Regardless of what the intent behind Itbit aspiring to be some wolf-boi's fucktoy was, however, Kidd has produced work that has been deemed illegal by Austrialian law. As someone that is used to producing published works, it was up to him to be professional enough to make sure that such potentially delicate concepts as an underaged harem girl was not in violation of Australian law. It's like if you go to a state that does not allow right turns on red lights, it's your responsiblity to make yourself aware of that fact before you start driving around.

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

This topic is getting old. And the more I know about it, the more I'm siding with Paul Kidd on this.

It doesnt seem he didn't anything morally wrong. Its a good thing I don't live in Australia, because I have bunch of Club magazines (and some furry art too :shock: ) the cops might want to have a look at.

Porn is illegal in Oklahoma too, doesnt mean you still can't buy the magazines. And if this sort of shit is ok, then don't bitch about taxes. Because its your tax money being used to prosecute these types of cases.

I'll happily look it over and eat my words if other pages demonstrate the concept of an underage mousegirl wanting to "eat cakes all day" and "make happywriggles all night" is misguided. I won't, however, retract my statement that the text reads like the love child of Barney and Jar-Jar Binks.... that's just a pure opinion that I stand by.

Unfortunatly, you might have to, that comic page never appeared in the comic. Thats a demo page apperently done by Terrie Smith before they decided on a different artist. There are only 5 issues of Fangs of Ka'ath and that page was never published. And wouldn't have been for some time, as it was from a far off chapter.

Also, Fangs of Ka'ath is first a novel.

ZenZhu · Coadjutor Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 475

Unfortunatly, you might have to, that comic page never appeared in the comic. Thats a demo page apperently done by Terrie Smith before they decided on a different artist. There are only 5 issues of Fangs of Ka'ath and that page was never published. And wouldn't have been for some time, as it was from a far off chapter.

Well, until I see the work for myself, I don't have to eat anything. And, if this page was among what they found in his home, then it still could be counted as incriminating work. Of course, that scan obviously wasn't taken from his home, but it would be unsurprising for him to retain all of the production materials, including that page. So, it's not unreasonable to assume it's part of Exhibit B.

Of course, we're all going on the link between pictures he allegedly took of his children and a work like Fangs of Ka'rap. While there's been no mention of other materials the police may have frowned more seriously upon, we can't assume there was or was not additionally incriminating material. We know what kind of freaks furries tend to be. We can't say he had more serious forms of porn in there... but we can't say he didn't, either. And it's not likely we're going to hear if he did, as he would not be forthcoming with such information, and neither would his supporters. I doubt his detractors can get such facts.

Also, Fangs of Ka'ath is first a novel.

That's obvious from looking at his site, but I'm not about to wallow through "happywriggles" in anything other than a condensed format. If you want to spank away at the novelization of "happywriggles" for your furry quota, more power to you, but I'd rather play pirate poker with a ball-peen hammer.

While I'd hate to see a man unjustly punished for a crime he didn't commit, I have to side with Hirtes on this one, in that hearing anything that gives furry a black eye makes the day a little cheerier. Hopefully, Kidd will escape any punishment he doesn't deserve, but this will be one for the history books in the chronicles of furry in the public eye.

Wayd Wolf · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 456

Kind of strange the claim that it was never published. When I saw the link it struck a chord. I DID see it in print, can't remember exactly where, possibly as part of some compilation comic. It's almost certainly somewhere in my boxes of comics from when I did bother buying comics.

BTW, Mike... Did anyone throw the usual all-purpose pot-kettle-black about harem porn yet? You can usually set your watch by furry defenders' mention of Genus 27, et al. At least your stuff didn't include underage characters.

I also want to thank you all for causing me to go through my collection and help me lose more weight by killing my appetite another night. I must have been totally shitfaced on some serious liquor to have bought some of the creeping crud in my dust covered boxes.

ZenZhu · Coadjutor Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 475

Well, maybe you can turn your nausea into profit. Mouse might buy those off of you.

Michael Hirtes · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 519

Kind of strange the claim that it was never published. When I saw the link it struck a chord. I DID see it in print, can't remember exactly where, possibly as part of some compilation comic. It's almost certainly somewhere in my boxes of comics from when I did bother buying comics.

I think it was first seen in an issue of Rowrbrazzle. Paul tends to go through a lot of artists on his stories, and FoK was no exception. What baffles me is that after seeing renditions done by the likes of Ted Sheppard or Terrie Smith, he finally chose some unknown hack to churn it out for MU Press.

BTW, Mike... Did anyone throw the usual all-purpose pot-kettle-black about harem porn yet? You can usually set your watch by furry defenders' mention of Genus 27, et al. At least your stuff didn't include underage characters.

Exactumundo. DS may have some rather kinky stuff (as if anyone who's ever looked at any of the dojin coming from Japan hasn't seen it already), but I think the line would definately be drawn at kiddie pr0n. I'd still like to go back to doing more episodes of that storyline, but I'd like to think that I'm doing a story meant for H fans in general instead of catering to teh furriez.

As for the freaks pulling that tired old P-K-B schtick, I don't think I've seen it yet (I have to admit that I haven't bothered much with AFF since Mister Exline shot a cinderblock from his ass and swore horrible bloody vengence against me).

I also want to thank you all for causing me to go through my collection and help me lose more weight by killing my appetite another night. I must have been totally shitfaced on some serious liquor to have bought some of the creeping crud in my dust covered boxes.

It was the temporary insanity of being in furry fandumb. To this day I still do not see what makes James Hardiman's stuff so hot shit with these people. It's not Kelly Price art, but still..........

Wayd Wolf · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 456

It was the temporary insanity of being in furry fandumb. To this day I still do not see what makes James Hardiman's stuff so hot shit with these people. It's not Kelly Price art, but still..........

See with me, Hardiman's stuff was just plain dirty fun I found comedic for its concept of Hardiman's alter-ego dealing with these sex-crazed monsters screwing up his life constantly, which only seemed like a tacit "beware of what you wish for" message to furries. And the fact that Hardiman doesn't take part generally in the usual crap of furry artists where they revel in all the fandom's admiration and become ego-maniacs is also a plus.

Problem is, he's got a lot of rabid asshole fans who make buying of any of his stuff look unseemly. It's like buying porn and knowing that a good segment of the rest of consumers are total cretins and what's more, non-consumers know it.

Now you want artists whose popularity does escape me, then it would be those artists who art screams from a distance that they've never seen a real live woman's plumbing or even picked up a copy of Hustler as a model guide. But then, some of it seems more like the plumbing of a real life dog so that's creepy right there...

(Only know of dog plumbing from the veterinary medical book I used to have before I moved when I was a kid.)

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

Well, maybe you can turn your nausea into profit. Mouse might buy those off of you.

I might.

ZenZhu · Coadjutor Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 475

I thought I saw you mention somewhere you were thinking you might seek them out eventually.... but damned if I can find it now.

It was the temporary insanity of being in furry fandumb. To this day I still do not see what makes James Hardiman's stuff so hot shit with these people. It's not Kelly Price art, but still..........

Hardiman is, undeniably, a skilled artist. His stuff doesn't have the Disney-wannabe quality like Terrie Smith and so many other artists have. But, his spooge stuff always turned me waaaaaay off because the sexual anatomy in his pics looks like a clinical diagram. If he did a vulva shot, it always looked like it was rendered in painstaking detail, and the rest of the picture was simply life-support for that one part of the page. His characters are a little wonky, too. They always seem topheavy.. and not in the boobs, but in the width of the shoulders compared to the hips and the size of the head. His digitigrade legs look fairly unstable, too.... like plantigrade legs that have been broken and reset.

I never cared for artists that did that.. Smith was notorious with her equines especially for having characters that would not actually be capable of standing, if they actually existed, because their feet were so tiny. So, Hardiman's characters often wind up looking like bobble-head dolls with a clinical anatomy diagram pasted on them. And his "cartoony" style always looked like he couldn't quite make the leap from his more "realistic" style to a simplified one.

About the only thing I really liked from him was his lizard girls... preferably non-clinical/spoogy, however.

Wayd Wolf · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 456

About the only thing I really liked from him was his lizard girls... preferably non-clinical/spoogy, however.

I have two of his mousepads still in plastic, one with Desiree Lee's lizard character. Not too shabby as a nude anthropomorphic lizard in profile goes and just amusing to show the uninitiated who I want to make uneasy for amusement. But then, when they see a meerschaum pipe in my mouth of two women in a "sixty-nine" they already get a little uneasy.

(I simply do it for the amusement of unsettling them and still getting what I want out of them. You're eccentric when it's mostly on purpose and nuts when you do it pathologically.)

As to feet and walking digitigrade, I was born with a muscle deformity that required braces on my shoes as a toddler to turn my legs back correct(I was a huge kid in a very small mom during gestation). As a result, I can walk and run on the balls of my feet and toes with my heels up no problem and it often is more comfortable after a long day flat footed.

But, it necessarily means creaking the knees forward and slouching slightly forward to maintain center of gravity and balance. Note the human legs stand just fine fully extended. Dgitigrade animal knees are always somewhat bent. Furry artists often don't take that into account and draw characters that would fall over if they tried to stand still.

ZenZhu · Coadjutor Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 475

I have two of his mousepads still in plastic, one with Desiree Lee's lizard character. Not too shabby as a nude anthropomorphic lizard in profile goes and just amusing to show the uninitiated who I want to make uneasy for amusement. But then, when they see a meerschaum pipe in my mouth of two women in a "sixty-nine" they already get a little uneasy.

I recall one of Desiree fron the side.. doing something of a handstand on her forearms. The pose was very nice, and hid everything except maybe some boobage. I tend to find stuff that doesn't show all of the details much more pleasing. I also recall a portfolio cover I saw back before he really pulled his stuff from the net. It had her in some sort of seated pose, again, with most things strategically covered by her limbs. When he did more tasteful stuff like that, it was actually pretty nice.

As to feet and walking digitigrade, I was born with a muscle deformity that required braces on my shoes as a toddler to turn my legs back correct(I was a huge kid in a very small mom during gestation). As a result, I can walk and run on the balls of my feet and toes with my heels up no problem and it often is more comfortable after a long day flat footed.

That's hardly a claim to fame. Back when I used to jog every night in high-school and college, I took a lot of paths through woods. The changes in terrain and footing required gave you that much more exercise. Running on my toes was the preferable way to traverse through the woods as it kept you light-footed and able to dodge branches.

But, it necessarily means creaking the knees forward and slouching slightly forward to maintain center of gravity and balance. Note the human legs stand just fine fully extended. Dgitigrade animal knees are always somewhat bent. Furry artists often don't take that into account and draw characters that would fall over if they tried to stand still.

Back when I was first starting to draw morphs and had a "digitigrade" phase with my designs, I'd walk around my dorm room (had one to myself, fortunately) on my toes with my knees crooked just to learn how the balance would work and all.