Crush...Yiff...Destroy!

S.I.D.S. · Recusant Joined: 10 Aug 2003 Posts: 5

I don't know why I am doing this, but I think, I think, I think it is because I discovered this site earlier today and I notice that when I tend to spend more than a half-hour focusing on a particular site on the web, it means I have hit something important to me. Nevertheless, I have long been disgusted by my own attraction to the furry community, and it is refreshing to to find a site maintained by (hopefully) normalesque people that have an interest in preserving what is respectable in the furry community. Then there was this article I just read - I don't remeber who or what and am not going to go back and search for it - where the guy basically explained that at conventions he sifted through throngs of lifestylers and general nuts to find those handful of people that have "lives" and are generally well adjusted. I guess I am looking for those people? I am aware that there are normal people out there who don't spend their lives on the net and don't engage in hopelessly complex role plays that come to overtake and dominate their lives, as well as those who have disturbingly bizzarre fantasies; sane people who just like the concept of anthropomorphic charaters rendered in art, and being typical adults (hopefully adults) can appreciate more suggestive art.

So basically, if you came to this site you are probably one of those people?

I;ve realized that that is all I really want from the net and all this media devoted to furry things: to find others that can appreciate the anthro fantasy world/s but aren't fetish freaks or lifestylers. If I seem discriminatory or offensive to you, that's nice sweetie :)

If you like furries, but have a life and are not a net-junkie, Raise your hand! Say something! Say something like "hey!" or "unite" or whatever. I only hope I have not made a fool of myself on this forum. :?

BTW, the Atrocity archive is awesome.

The New Meat · Coadjutor Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 327

Your avatar is huge! How the hell did you do that?

Otherwise, welcome. We aim to please.

S.I.D.S. · Recusant Joined: 10 Aug 2003 Posts: 5

AAACK! I didn't know it would be so goddamn big. Well, hopefully in this post it won't even be there. It should be small, but now its gone.

Oh, um, any thoughts on what I said. I'm really trying to find semi-normal people to talk to. There are too many weirdos out there. Maybe we could found a town or something... wait that is kinda weird, agh, I'm in over my head

Computolio · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 349

I can't really speak for Mitch, but I'm here just to poke fun at the beautiful trainwreck that is furry. I'm not here to "reform" it or anything, and that's really not the purpose of the site.

Sorry.

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

I;ve realized that that is all I really want from the net and all this media devoted to furry things: to find others that can appreciate the anthro fantasy world/s but aren't fetish freaks or lifestylers.

thats basically where im at , none of my friends want to even hear about the comics i read, when in reality theres nothing wrong with them...and that kinda pisses me off

or, the talent that was driven away or dropped out of anthro-art because of all the bullshit and stigma , totally unfair to everyone

Mitch · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 290

sane people who just like the concept of anthropomorphic charaters rendered in art, and being typical adults (hopefully adults) can appreciate more suggestive art.

Well... yeah, okay, I do like some of the artwork, it's no big secret. But I haven't much time for the rest of it. And I'd pitch a fit if someone used the word "Furry" to describe me.

I can't really speak for Mitch, but I'm here just to poke fun at the beautiful trainwreck that is furry. I'm not here to "reform" it or anything, and that's really not the purpose of the site.

Yeah, it's a non-stop fun fair ride of pure unadulterated funny. Anyone who talks about reforming it is either crazy or trying to raise a laugh.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

me me me!!!!!!!!! I'm normal! :lol:

^^ I'm no net junkie, though art-adicted... :lol:

Genghis · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 186

I'm in a similar boat to Mitch. The fandom is something that may have held some interest to me a couple of years ago when I was unaware of how fucked up it is at its core. Hell, if I'd googled for "cartoons" instead of "tasteless humour" on my first day of proper internet use, things could be very different today. That said, I'd probably either quit out of self-interest or get ostracised by the fandom for breaking one of their taboos, such as saying "dude, I don't wanna know".

Thing is, your hobbies and interests are not something that anyone should ever build their entire lives around. Even if you do have nothing better to do, there's no reason why one single activity should occupy 100% of your time - hell, I'd be bored as fuck stitting in a MUCK all day, regardless of how "interesting" the events therein are. Of course, my definition of "interesting" involves getting a bunch of mates and going completely apeshit - when your party activities include getting wasted, forming a tribe of fire-worshipping hunter-gatherers, and going on shirtless rampages through small suburban towns for no readily apparent reason, there's no going back.

The New Meat · Coadjutor Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 327

I'm actually just a furry troll, spying on all these soul-raping bigots.

DA · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 320

Are you looking for normal as in never think of anything perverted or normal as in are smart enough if they do think of that stuff to keep it underwraps.

I have a few odd fetishes, but don't ask and I won't tell :P

S.I.D.S. · Recusant Joined: 10 Aug 2003 Posts: 5

Who's trying to reform? WHAT are they trying to reform?

thats basically where im at , none of my friends want to even hear about the comics i read, when in reality theres nothing wrong with them...and that kinda pisses me off

or, the talent that was driven away or dropped out of anthro-art because of all the bullshit and stigma , totally unfair to everyone

There we go! That's what I'm talkin about.

me me me!!!!!!!!! I'm normal!

^^ I'm no net junkie, though art-adicted...

I think alot of people are art addicted? Is that were it stops though? Or starts? I don't even know how to define "normal" now that I think about it.

when your party activities include getting wasted, forming a tribe of fire-worshipping hunter-gatherers, and going on shirtless rampages through small suburban towns for no readily apparent reason, there's no going back.

Yea-WHAT? :o

Are you looking for normal as in never think of anything perverted or normal as in are smart enough if they do think of that stuff to keep it underwraps.

I have a few odd fetishes, but don't ask and I won't tell

So DA, what are your fetishes?

That's just it, I don't know what normal is. IS there a middle ground here? Are we discriminating? I said lifestylers and fetish freaks, but where do you draw the line between normal and... f'd? What is going to far?

wow this site rocks, people actually like, answer thoughtfully or something :)

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

just in case to let the bell ring in your head, got lot's of stress and emotional troubels, that means that art is my way of expressing it, :roll:

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

The fandom is something that may have held some interest to me a couple of years ago when I was unaware of how fucked up it is at its core.

well actually , its fucked up AROUND THE CORE...literally.
the "core" is fine, there was sound logic behind the whole "furry thing" at one point...and technically there still is.

Yeah, it's a non-stop fun fair ride of pure unadulterated funny. Anyone who talks about reforming it is either crazy or trying to raise a laugh.

WHAT?@??!?! I AM TOTALLY COMMITTED TO THE REVOLUTION WTF U TALKIN ABOUT DUDE??? I WILLSTOP AT NOTHING , NO COST IS TOO GREAT, NO ACT TOO EXTREME....I WILL USE GUNS IF I HAVE TO

ok, it was for a laugh, but im also crazy serious as you will see later in this post: (not the revolution thing , but there may very well be change on the horizon)

That's just it, I don't know what normal is. IS there a middle ground here? Are we discriminating? I said lifestylers and fetish freaks, but where do you draw the line between normal and... f'd? What is going to far?

wow this site rocks, people actually like, answer thoughtfully or something :)

well, me personally, i definatly dont speak for everyone here, but i would actually be pretty tolerant of most stuff. i guess the only reason that i am even divided on the issue is that ive been "pushed too far" by certain aspects of the fandom , that are just too fucking extreme and shameless. for the most part i dont give a shit what other people do, but in retrospect even tho i am coming from a different angle than probably most furries(read apathetic/indifferent), that extreme tolerance is what allowed things to go downhill so fast. basically i get the impression that if i was "in charge" the same thing probably would have happened in the sense that i would give certain people an inch, and they would take a mile. i think the only way to avoid this would have been to be tolerant, while at the same time making your disdain very apperent.

realistically , most of the shit that furry gets dumped on for : stuff like plushophilia , well, what the fuck...this is more sad than anything else. basically i feel its pathetic enough it aint even worth getting upset over. it also really has no place in furry at all. and correct if i am wrong , first, almost no furries are actual plushophiles. and secondly almost all actual plushophiles have nothing to do with furry. i seem to remember reading somewhere this is more of a "texture fetish" or some shit. also, as far as im aware foxwolfie galen is really the only, or one of a VERY few - bridging the two (furry and plush). i think it probably confuses people since alot of furries are into collecting stuffed animals - BUT DONT ACTUALLY FUCK THEM....damn
(read what i posted in i think the suggestions forum, "sociology" david rust's surveys, fucking LESS people: a whopping 1% identifies themselfs as "plushies" than even the whole 2% that identified themselves as "zoophiles")

and all these fetishes that have been "altered" to fit furry, should be shed immediatly, because they also dont have any place in furry. i was going to go thru them, but forget it, it aint worth it , you all unfortunatly know exactly what im talking about. ouside of the shit that is illegal or blatantly immoral , i would settle if these people would keep a low profile, and just shut the fuck up about what thier into. and "shutting the fuck up" to me includes not having your own "furry" webpage talking about your fetishes for you either.

i think what pressed fur had to say about the salon article sums it up best
"A sardonically humorous article about plushophiles that is half interview and half interviewer's uneasy reflections. Any furries who are quick to say, "But they don't point out he's a furry in the article!" should notice the link to "FoxWolfie Galen's Webpage," which blends plushophilia and the Yerf Archive together into one big happy furry family."

thanks, galen

anyway here is how i think the fandom can be fixed, i know people dont wanna hear it, cuz they think its not gonna happen....and your probably right. but no one can ever tell me i didnt try or that i didnt think about this

first off , if possible, ENFORCE the low profile mentioned earlier..its not realistic but , oh well whatever. More importantly though, FURRIES need to condemn other furries' behaviour if its innappropriate. theres no way around that one. there would really have to be a fandom wide attitude change on this. which virtually guarantees this to be the first and major stumbling block.
but if it were to happen, step 2 would be to immediatly confront detractors with this information also. (pointing out that furry is not an organization or a club, if someone says they are a furry, for all intents and purposes they ARE...so you need to have the general population of the fandom lead by example, so that just looking into the matter will prove these people wrong.)

having strong, upstanding names and personalities in the fandom would work also. so that ranks can grow and newcomers that are "normal" dont feel so uncomfortable (chandler, blumrich, a million other people that left) or avoid it out of fear of "getting involved in something they shouldnt or wouldnt want to"
and id like to say i dont feel that most furries are that fucked up , but the ones that are , are loud as hell and drown everyone else out.
basically if furry was constantly attracting new people, that were into cartoons, art etc etc, all the things that are bad about furry would become less and less, until its just a small lunatic fringe - and all groups have lunatic fringes.

as far as artwork goes, outside overly grotesque fethish artwork , i personally feel adult art always has a niche in ANY genre. in fact even the more fucked up weird stuff wouldnt be so bad , if it were just supposed to be weird, or AT LEAST if it didnt flood everything like it currently does. i have no idea why its like this either. id actually like some serious input on this. because i dont see the point in just looking at more and more and more fucking porn...what the fuck gives? i look at the stuff once in a damn while and thats it. there aint much to it..its gets FUCKING BORING. i dont understand how furries can buy and browse just the sheer amount of stuff they do and maintain any interest in it ...(im going on the near unprovable assumption that most, as in 3/4 or more of furries look at tons of porn. and i dont consider the volume of it being produced to be an indicator nessecarily either, since realistically that could be supported entirely by a smaller , yet loyal percentage of the fandom)

back to the main point: the only way i see any change occuring in the fandom is the same way it has deteriorated: over time, in the exact reverse order that the problems started, address one issue at a time.
focusing less on the internet might be a step in the right direction. trying to turn back the clock on the fandom to say the mid 80s would be GREAT. less web art, less digital stuff. more printed things: APAs, zines, comics, even professional animation and painting etc. when something gets put into print, in theory it has to have some sort of good quality...yes theres always exceptions, but typically, people "waste the money" if it isnt worth being printed...or if they do - it wont sell.
because as ridiculous as this will sound i think "furry" in general should try and upgrade the medium its using in art a little more often. oil painting is considered a professional medium, i am willing to bet it would instantly add credibility to any piece. lets face it, most art is weird anyway. colored pencils and typing paper wont cut it at any real art exhibit. (this medium is usually used for illustration i think. there is a thread started by david on A.F.F. - where some people are discussing this now - "furry mentioned in post modernist art book" which i think is BS on his part, but the discussion isnt)now , i realize that "furry" art would never be that successful in most art circles, etc. but so what? there no reason that it should be there at all. no one has bothered trying. and lots of these artists want to be recognized as professionals, then they need to start trying to build bridges (the same ones that were burned) to the mainstream entertainment industry and art society.

anyway i think you are starting to see some changes. if someone can confirm this, i think that furry spring break (defunct) which was the pawpets crew, had restrictions, no art worse than G-rated, maybe PG at worst (whatever the hell PG artwork would be) and they were strict about it. it would be a good PR move. Im not sure if thier current thing the pawpets mego-plex has that same standard or not. but this is the final point id like to bring up, is letting the press back in once things (hypothetically) have been cleaned up...and heres the best part, becuase this would be the fucking biggest kick in the nuts furry could ever give the media for what theyve done: imagine every fanboy interviewed just boring the living fuck out of a reporter/journalist with just useless fannish babble/history etc etc etc, like any other fandom....theyd leave and never come back

i tried proof reading this, but who knows, if its fucked up ill fix it tomarrow
ill probably clean this up and turn this into an essay at some point and distribute it or post it

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

is usually used for illustration i think. there is a thread started by david on A.F.F. - where some people are discussing this now - "furry mentioned in post modernist art book" which i think is BS on his part, but the discussion isnt)

Umm… It was, Really. I went to the Tate modern, and there really was a mention about furrys in that book.

Seriously, I have no idea why they mentioned it and I do dislike modern art for the emperors new clothes, it’s just that it was bloody hot, and the Tate modern had air conditioning.

If you or someone else go's to the tate modern and looks in the postmodernist art section, they will see this book about animals in it, And on the page after the one with the photos of the women kissing the kat, There will it be.

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

Umm… It was, Really. I went to the Tate modern, and there really was a mention about furrys in that book.

Seriously, I have no idea why they mentioned it and I do dislike modern art for the emperors new clothes, it’s just that it was bloody hot, and the Tate modern had air conditioning.

If you or someone else go's to the tate modern and looks in the postmodernist art section, they will see this book about animals in it, And on the page after the one with the photos of the women kissing the kat, There will it be.

ok sorry,
but you can you provide a title to the book, thats the only reason i came to this conclusion anyway. you refered to it as "a book" so it would be hard for anyone to confirm it.

you see, that urban legends site, snopes.com or whatever it is - they get into a little bit about how rumors and "urban legends" get started, and i kind of operate in that mode all the time. if someone cannot provide specific information, its usually made up or been altered. or the way stories change from place to place and over time, tends to point to the fact that thier false, or the many times that "facts" rely on false assumptions (chevy novas not selling in mexico and south america) a

t any rate, i just apply this on a much smaller scale to everything i read or hear about.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

ok sorry,
but you can you provide a title to the book, thats the only reason i came to this conclusion anyway. you refered to it as "a book" so it would be hard for anyone to confirm it.

you see, that urban legends site, snopes.com or whatever it is - they get into a little bit about how rumors and "urban legends" get started, and i kind of operate in that mode all the time. if someone cannot provide specific information, its usually made up or been altered. or the way stories change from place to place and over time, tends to point to the fact that thier false, or the many times that "facts" rely on false assumptions (chevy novas not selling in mexico and south america) a

t any rate, i just apply this on a much smaller scale to everything i read or hear about.

Found it!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1861890605/ref=sr_aps_books_1_1/026-4202220-9995625

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

cool,

too bad the first mention furry finally gets in an art book is dismissive at best

i guess its better than it being totally slammed by yet another community though

DA · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 320

That somebody would actually ask, they're pretty mild for fetishes actually...just bondage and a real thing for a certain cartoon animal, don't feel like saying who but unlike a few furries I think I'd die of shock at the opportunity of actually sleeping with him :P

Nice to imagine but in reality I wouldn't want to go there...Oh yeah and I study weird sexual fetishes as a side thing, I find them fascinationg :lol:

Wakestar · Recusant Joined: 27 Aug 2003 Posts: 20

Thats ok, man. Aside form all the freaks and perverts that abound in the fandom, there are people like me. That is, people who arn't wannabe, neo-paganist, computer-dependant, fursuit-wearing stuffed-animal sex feinds.

SLaitila · Coadjutor Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 126

I'm fairly normal. I don't own an internet-connection, I rarely even draw furry pin-ups anymore. I don't own any pets, nor a furry avatar, and my hobbies are mainly playing rock music and drinking. (yes, it is a hobby in finland)

The New Meat · Coadjutor Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 327

I'm fairly normal. I don't own an internet-connection, I rarely even draw furry pin-ups anymore. I don't own any pets, nor a furry avatar, and my hobbies are mainly playing rock music and drinking. (yes, it is a hobby in finland)

Finnish, eh? So is it true what they say about the Finns? Is knifing Swedes and Norwegians in barfights a popular pastime there?

SLaitila · Coadjutor Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 126

Finnish, eh? So is it true what they say about the Finns? Is knifing Swedes and Norwegians in barfights a popular pastime there?

Actually we knive each other. But all you heard about the drinking culture is true. some 80% of the crimes (as much as I remember from the local newspaper) are done while inebriated. And the government is in panic because the alcohol tax will lower after 2.5.2004 as they believe the finns are going to drink themselves to death. I know I will.

The New Meat · Coadjutor Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 327

Actually we knive each other. But all you heard about the drinking culture is true. some 80% of the crimes (as much as I remember from the local newspaper) are done while inebriated.

I lived in Iceland until recently, and all the locals told horror stories about the volatile tempers of the Finns. The general impression that I got was that Finns like to fight in general, but that Swedes and Norwegians are favorite victims because they're usually too terrified to fight back. Icelanders tend to be unpredictable targets, so don't get picked on too much. One fellow I knew always pretended to be Finnish when he went abroad, in hopes that it would discourage anyone from messing with him. He says it works. Anyway, you probably know all that, but I thought it was interesting.

>And the government is in panic because the alcohol tax will lower after 2.5.2004 as they believe the finns are going to drink themselves to death. I know I will.

The Icelandic government was afraid of that when they legalized liquor back in the day. Think it was the 70s or so. The whole country went on a week long bender on Brennivan (Or "Black Death," as it's now called after the infamous morning after), but they recovered eventually.

Again, probably stuff you already know. But amusing.

Wakestar · Recusant Joined: 27 Aug 2003 Posts: 20

Well... I think it's apparent where MY next vacation's gonna be.