Crush...Yiff...Destroy!

Chris Baird · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 78

Can anyone name a 'Great Evil' in the Fandom that doesn't trace back to the human psychology involved from the pseudo-anonymity and social detachment from people using 'fursonas'?

IMHO, what there is today is not the 'Furry Fandom' of yore, but a 'Fursona Fandom'...

I'll pass on detailing why I think the 'Manditory' use of nom-de-plumes inside our little sub-culture have exacerabated the social problems we're witnessing, because the PSYCH101 textbooks are at my former girlfriend's place (I know there's literature detailing which human fault exactly is responsible..), however who else would agree that this Fandom would be very different-- for the better-- if the 'fursona' trend fell out of favour? (...and it'd be little different from other fandoms like SF or Anime, where FreakJobs would be still be present, but not attracted like a magnet in 90% numbers..)

If I were desperate for attention, I'd campaign for a "Burn All Fursonas Day!"

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

I believe that this whole problem started when people thought it was OK to use fruity names.

Are names Like: Jacques, Innocent, William, Henry and Ho chi minh not good enough for these people!?!?!??!

But no, they have to use ones like swiftouch frottagepaws or Manganese pineapples and Dragondung Jones.

The problem is not necessarily fursonas, but rather IMO, the pseudo angst goth rebellious teenagers who cause trouble by adopting them and becoming a furry lifestyler in order to annoy people and find some group of which to be a part of.

I think a stiff letter to the daily telegraph is in order.

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

Can anyone name a 'Great Evil' in the Fandom that doesn't trace back to the human psychology involved from the pseudo-anonymity and social detachment from people using 'fursonas'?

IMHO, what there is today is not the 'Furry Fandom' of yore, but a 'Fursona Fandom'...

yeah, id agree with you on this

the only exception is that i dont feel that there is anything *intrinsically* wrong with any of it. it depends on what an individual does, or how they they handle things (or in this case a majority of individuals). i compare it to the way some people get all weird about D&D....

theres plenty of people who dont. where the problem there? there isnt any.

i also stand firm on that fact that it is intent thats very important (as far as everything goes). realistically if this stuff was done "just for fun", just for the sake of being "weird", stupid in-jokes, and fandom garbage, there would be absolutely no problem with it. unfortunatly the reality is that far too many people take it far too seriously, or at the very least have all kinds of mental/emotional baggage coming along with it

i think i expressed in my very first post here in the thread "critterology vs phurries" that i didnt understand why there is so much roleplaying. im perfectly content just reading or looking at the stuff. i dont have to BE the fucking characters

Are names Like: Jacques, Innocent, William, Henry and Ho chi minh not good enough for these people!?!?!??!

But no, they have to use ones like swiftouch frottagepaws or Manganese pineapples and Dragondung Jones.

i thought it was awesome when you changed your name on A.F.F. that one time to "Communist Dildo Factory Fox" to make that point. actually the funniest part of that is the ~24 hours where people basically just breezed over it until that one guy said something like: "CDFF where on earth did you get that name from?!"

CDFF has my vote - best name ever

Genghis · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 186

The "fursona" thing does bear a lot of simarities to the roleplaying thing, and Mouse is right in that there are some who take it seriously, and others who... well... don't. With that in mind, often a particular person's "fursona" is little more than a glorified net handle (ala SA's "Axemaniac", who portrays himself as a crazy barbarian dude in cartoon form).

Of course, every roleplayer has seen at least one person who got too attached to a particular character. And you know what happens then.

DA · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 320

However it's just a glorified handle for me, nothing wrong with fursona's it's when people spend ages making up history and stuff for them and claiming they're real that things start to get weird :P

Chris Baird · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 78

However it's just a glorified handle for me, nothing wrong with fursona's it's when people spend ages making up history and stuff for them and claiming they're real that things start to get weird :P

If you or anyone says "My Fursona is just like me in real life", I Will Have To Kill You.

DA · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 320

My fursona is just like me in real life NOT!! She don't even have a personality.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

Can anyone name a 'Great Evil' in the Fandom that doesn't trace back to the human psychology involved from the pseudo-anonymity and social detachment from people using 'fursonas'?

Kind of like the "Great Evil" inherent in any form of role-playing game? C'mon, this line of reasoning comes straight from Oral Roberts. And, of course, Roberts and Company were more than happy to present various anecdotes of D&D players who went over the edge (such as the famous "Steam Tunnel" escapades of yore) to back up their claims.

I might add that the Internet, especially forums like this one, are loaded with people who engage in psuedo-anonymity and suffer from social detachment because of it.

Some furries are certainly over the edge and place too much of their own personality in something that doesn't exist. Which is something endemic to society in general, as opposed to furry fandom in particular. I could show you some sports fans, for example... :roll:

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

Can anyone name a 'Great Evil' in the Fandom that doesn't trace back to the human psychology involved from the pseudo-anonymity and social detachment from people using 'fursonas'?

Kind of like the "Great Evil" inherent in any form of role-playing game? C'mon, this line of reasoning comes straight from Oral Roberts. And, of course, Roberts and Company were more than happy to present various anecdotes of D&D players who went over the edge (such as the famous "Steam Tunnel" escapades of yore) to back up their claims.

I might add that the Internet, especially forums like this one, are loaded with people who engage in psuedo-anonymity and suffer from social detachment because of it.

Some furries are certainly over the edge and place too much of their own personality in something that doesn't exist. Which is something endemic to society in general, as opposed to furry fandom in particular. I could show you some sports fans, for example... :roll:

The ideologies which goes with fursonas speaks of having serious problems relating to other people.

After all, if you could relate other people properly, why would you have this need to call yourself say… Communist dildo factory fox and pretend to be a hermaphroditic fox that works in a communist dildo factory AND HAS A 50 FOOT DICK , FAIRY WINGS AND CAN SPOOGE ON PEOPLE TO KILL THEM DEAD!!!!
OMFG! I’M <insert sexual orientation and assorted fetishes here> AND I AM REALLY A FOX INSIDE NOT A HORRIBLE OLD STINKY PERSON BECAUSE STINKY HORRIBLE PEOPLE ARE MEEN TO ME WHEN I TELL THEM THAT I AM REALLY A SPIRITUAL FOX INSIDE!!!

Also, if you examine a lot of these furries, they often repeat silly dogma about all people being evil and how great it would for all HORRIBLE HY00mans TO DIE!!

This is false conscious and not true consciousness pertaining to humans and their materiel life.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

The ideologies which goes with fursonas speaks of having serious problems relating to other people.

Switch "fursonas" with "player characters", and you have just VERBATIM quoted Jerry Falwell speaking about D&D. Let me see if I still have the tape of "700 Club" around here with that episode on it...

After all, if you could relate other people properly, why would you have this need to call yourself say…

...Froederick the Wood Elf, 9th-level Ranger? Again, Falwell said it first. Though according to my tape, not verbatim this time. You just paraphrased him. Falwell's actual words are "if these young boys and girls knew to walk with God, they would not feel a need to pretend they are other than they really are".

OMFG! I’M <insert sexual orientation and assorted fetishes here> AND I AM REALLY A FOX INSIDE NOT A HORRIBLE OLD STINKY PERSON BECAUSE STINKY HORRIBLE PEOPLE ARE MEEN TO ME WHEN I TELL THEM THAT I AM REALLY A SPIRITUAL FOX INSIDE!!!

Speaking as a furry fan, if I met someone like that in person, I would at the very least have to leave their vicinity or punch them. BTW, I have met people like that at gaming conventions, and my reaction was the same.

I actually got into a heated argument once with a guy who insisted that his D&D sessions were a "replay" of his "real life" on "the other side". He insisted that his "ties" to his "real self" allowed him to perform actual magic and proceeded to try and convince me that he could levitate my hand --- whereupon he went into a FRIGGIN' HYPNOSIS ROUTINE. Having never been particularly easy to hypnotize, I told him to knock it off, he claimed his magic wasn't working because I was "fighting it", and THEN went into a spiel about how I must also be a wizard on "the other side" to have such abilities to fight him off.

The discussion ended when two of my friends had to drag me off the guy, who had made the mistake of "testing my shields" by punching me in the arm. The only reason I hadn't been ejected from the convention was that everyone who saw the incident saw the guy slug me before I jumped him.

Also, if you examine a lot of these furries, they often repeat silly dogma about all people being evil and how great it would for all HORRIBLE HY00mans TO DIE!!

Oh yeah, I hear that all the time, like, at LEAST once a YEAR. Or maybe not that often.

Seriously, who are you talking to that says this stuff? The only people I know of who yammer on like this are PETA freaks and some of the "spiritual furry" types --- who, in my long experience, amount to less than 1% of the fandom. Mostly hard-core liberals who, furry or not, blame humanity for polluting the Earth and probably were glued to the TV set every time Captain Planet came on.

"Earth!" "Fire!" "Water!" "Yiff!" ... "eeeeeewwwww...." :lol:

This is false conscious and not true consciousness pertaining to humans and their materiel life.

Also a paraphase from Falwell, who at that point in the episode is citing psychologists who think D&D is "mentally disfiguring".

Chris Baird · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 78

Some furries are certainly over the edge and place too much of their own personality in something that doesn't exist. Which is something endemic to society in general, as opposed to furry fandom in particular. I could show you some sports fans, for example...

And this means we should totally ignore the 'real life' checks-and-balances on social behavour in the online Furry scene, why?

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

Some furries are certainly over the edge and place too much of their own personality in something that doesn't exist. Which is something endemic to society in general, as opposed to furry fandom in particular. I could show you some sports fans, for example...

And this means we should totally ignore the 'real life' checks-and-balances on social behavour in the online Furry scene, why?

Because it might make some of the more delicate furries cry or something and then we would be guilty of being mean for helping them to adjust their behaviour to an acceptable standard :o(

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

Switch "fursonas" with "player characters", and you have just VERBATIM quoted Jerry Falwell speaking about D&D. Let me see if I still have the tape of "700 Club" around here with that episode on it...

Tsk, Tsk, not at all, that’s Marxist dogma.
To quote from the Fading Suns Intro booklet:

“Role-playing games can be more than mere
Pastimes. The players can strive for the same artistic goals
As the author of a novel, a film or a play.”

While there is nothing wrong with role-playing games, it is very wrong to make these things into false consciousness.
Because that’s what “furry lifestyle” is. (furry lifestyle of course, is pretending that your are really your "fursona" inside or spiritaly et al)

...Froederick the Wood Elf, 9th-level Ranger? Again, Falwell said it first. Though according to my tape, not verbatim this time. You just paraphrased him. Falwell's actual words are "if these young boys and girls knew to walk with God, they would not feel a need to pretend they are other than they really are".

As far as I am concerned, Religion is just as much false concioness as the "furry lifestyle".
Furry lifestyle is pretending something that is not true, is. To try and cover the cracks in the world.
For example: have problems relating to other people?
You’re not really a person, you’re a magic fox!

Speaking as a furry fan, if I met someone like that in person, I would at the very least have to leave their vicinity or punch them. BTW, I have met people like that at gaming conventions, and my reaction was the same.

Is acutal phsyical violence rather excessive if not presented with it in the first place?
I've left people's presence before, but I have never, except when I was a kid, Actively sought to violently interdict portions of other people's body with my own.

Oh yeah, I hear that all the time, like, at LEAST once a YEAR. Or maybe not that often.

Seriously, who are you talking to that says this stuff? The only people I know of who yammer on like this are PETA freaks and some of the "spiritual furry" types --- who, in my long experience, amount to less than 1% of the fandom. Mostly hard-core liberals who, furry or not, blame humanity for polluting the Earth and probably were glued to the TV set every time Captain Planet came on.

"Earth!" "Fire!" "Water!" "Yiff!" ... "eeeeeewwwww...." :lol:

No one can deny the damage done to the earth and it’s ecosystems by capitalism. (or they’re a shill if they do :)

However, there is no need to go overboard in blaming all humans for it and wishing for them to all die or something or be replaced by furries.

However this simplistic oppositionism is very common among the furry dandom, How many comics, art, stories are based around "hy00mans are evil and want to kill the furries" and "brave noble furries are brave and noble"?

It's imaginative bankruptcy!

This is false conscious and not true consciousness pertaining to humans and their materiel life.

Also a paraphase from Falwell, who at that point in the episode is citing psychologists who think D&D is "mentally disfiguring".

No, That's Marx. Falwell would babble about sprituality, But man makes his own matriel life. (As marx & engels have it)

Michael Hirtes · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 519

Can anyone name a 'Great Evil' in the Fandom that doesn't trace back to the human psychology involved from the pseudo-anonymity and social detachment from people using 'fursonas'?

IMHO, what there is today is not the 'Furry Fandom' of yore, but a 'Fursona Fandom'...

I'll pass on detailing why I think the 'Manditory' use of nom-de-plumes inside our little sub-culture have exacerabated the social problems we're witnessing, because the PSYCH101 textbooks are at my former girlfriend's place (I know there's literature detailing which human fault exactly is responsible..), however who else would agree that this Fandom would be very different-- for the better-- if the 'fursona' trend fell out of favour? (...and it'd be little different from other fandoms like SF or Anime, where FreakJobs would be still be present, but not attracted like a magnet in 90% numbers..)

If I were desperate for attention, I'd campaign for a "Burn All Fursonas Day!"

I'm on the Jlist mailing list, and in today's newsletter, I got the following tidbit about Japanese culture:

"When Western couples are going to have a baby, they might consult a book of names, which presents a list of possible names for boys and girls along with the etymology of each name is, and so on. Japanese have similar books, but it's a bit more complicated, as there are "lucky" and "unlucky" names depending on which kanji you choose. My son was to be named Kazuma, which is "kazu" (peace) and "ma" (horse), but my wife consulted a family's Buddhist priest, who warned us that names with animal kanji in them were bad luck and would result in an unhappy life for the child."

See? Even the Buddists had it figured out centuries ago about the dire fate of those who use furry names.

As for my own brush with fursonas, I still remember when Mark Merlino (if there ever could be a "Patient Zero" who was responsible for starting the plague that has utterly ruined furry fandom, it would have to be him) *demanded* that I must come up with a "fursona" in order to be accepted into furry fandom (ie, "Sy Sable", "Ken Cougar", etc.). You can imagine how downright creeped out I was when hearing him talk like that.

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

My son was to be named Kazuma, which is "kazu" (peace) and "ma" (horse), but my wife consulted a family's Buddhist priest, who warned us that names with animal kanji in them were bad luck and would result in an unhappy life for the child."

See? Even the Buddists had it figured out centuries ago about the dire fate of those who use furry names.

i was about to rain on the parade by bringing up that was an individual priests opinion ...fuck it im not gonna get into it, all the metaphysics shit, they cant agree on any of it

supposedly seeing a stove when walking into a house creates negative energy too, depending on who you consult

As for my own brush with fursonas, I still remember when Mark Merlino (if there ever could be a "Patient Zero" who was responsible for starting the plague that has utterly ruined furry fandom, it would have to be him) *demanded* that I must come up with a "fursona" in order to be accepted into furry fandom (ie, "Sy Sable", "Ken Cougar", etc.). You can imagine how downright creeped out I was when hearing him talk like that.

i dont have as much info as you do hirtes, but from all ive read, merlino is responsible for all kinds of wrong...so im not surprised at all that he pulled this kind of shit.

id actually like a little more background on this one: i always think of when i had read somewhere he publicly declared confurence, "a gay convention" or something to that effect...i dont have all the details so i dont know exactly what this was about, maybe someone can clear this up - but if this is the case, its a huge problem...
ive said tons of times, i dont have a problem with homosexuals at all. but if furry isnt supposed to be about sex, then there should be no such thing as a "gay furry convention". even if 90% of antendees were gay, it still shouldnt be a "gay convention". what the fuck? couldnt he forsee the obvious problem by doing this??

it really doesnt matter anymore anyway, there is no more confurence , and i think that 1 time was the only time someone had done something like that

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

And this means we should totally ignore the 'real life' checks-and-balances on social behavour in the online Furry scene, why?

Hang on a second while I replace "Furry" with "Church", "Sports", "Star Trek", and a number of other items which should point out that you're obsessing here. And the funny thing is, you're obsessing about someone else's obsession. :roll:

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

To quote from the Fading Suns Intro booklet:

Lemme get this straight: you're quoting a non-furry RPG to justify your views on furry roleplay. Ooooookaaaay...

Because that’s what “furry lifestyle” is. (furry lifestyle of course, is pretending that your are really your "fursona" inside or spiritaly et al)

And bing, there ya go over the edge. You're merely assuming that someone who has a "fursona" automatically believes they really ARE that character at some level.

Well, duh, hang on a second while I totally rewrite my personal psyche to fit your worldview. What you have to say certainly does apply to a few people. It doesn't apply, regardless of what your personal delusions, to the whole of furry fandom, or even a large chunk of it.

As far as I am concerned, Religion is just as much false concioness as the "furry lifestyle".

Gee, more proof that you're either not reading, or you're simply dodging a conclusion you don't want to address. Since, after all, I held Falwell up as a direct comparison to your own statements and logic.

So if you agree with me that Falwell's full of it, you clearly are agreeing that your own argument is shaky at best.

Furry lifestyle is pretending something that is not true, is.

Wow. So you're a furry lifestyler?

"It never ceases to amaze me how often humanity believes what it wants to believe, rather than what it knows to be true."

No one can deny the damage done to the earth and it’s ecosystems by capitalism. (or they’re a shill if they do :)

Ah, yes, the old "if you disagree with me, you're bought" argument. Smiley noted. -:) Of course, it happens to be a fact that the earth is perfectly capable of damaging itself, and is directly responsible for destroying in excess of 99% of all the life forms that have ever lived on the planet.

However, there is no need to go overboard in blaming all humans for it and wishing for them to all die or something or be replaced by furries.

And it's remarkable how few furries I've ever met in my decade of being a furry who think such things. What's more impressive is that I've met far more people in the last year who seem to think ALL or MOST or at least a LOT of furries believe this.

How many comics, art, stories are based around "hy00mans are evil and want to kill the furries" and "brave noble furries are brave and noble"?

Wanna replace "furries" with "mutants" and apply that to the majority of the Marvel comic line for the last, oh, twenty years? The reason this is such a prevalent storyline in furfandom is because, assuming any sort of "realism", furries would be mutants if they ever actually appeared. Ergo, furfandom is merely applying well-trodden plot concepts to a new set of characters.

It's imaginative bankruptcy!

Oh, I agree it's not an original take. But then, I seem to have no problem finding furry comics and stories that have nothing to do with that plotline. I myself used to write furry short fiction, and never once used that old saw. "Love and Counterinsurgency" was as close as I got --- and the main point of that tale was to show how outdated military technology can defeat new gear if used creatively.

Also a paraphase from Falwell, who at that point in the episode is citing psychologists who think D&D is "mentally disfiguring".

No, That's Marx. Falwell would babble about sprituality, But man makes his own matriel life. (As marx & engels have it)

Dude, I have this on TAPE. Falwell's exact words are "mentally disfiguring". Please don't "correct" me when I'm quoting from source material.

Michael Hirtes · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 519

id actually like a little more background on this one: i always think of when i had read somewhere he publicly declared confurence, "a gay convention" or something to that effect...i dont have all the details so i dont know exactly what this was about, maybe someone can clear this up - but if this is the case, its a huge problem...

According to _furry legend_, Merlino has been quoted as declaring that gay fandom IS furry fandom (& vice-verse). Which does explain why he created ConFurence as mainly a vehicle to push his radical sexual agenda on furrydom (with unfortunate success).

ive said tons of times, i dont have a problem with homosexuals at all. but if furry isnt supposed to be about sex, then there should be no such thing as a "gay furry convention". even if 90% of antendees were gay, it still shouldnt be a "gay convention". what the fuck? couldnt he forsee the obvious problem by doing this??

it really doesnt matter anymore anyway, there is no more confurence , and i think that 1 time was the only time someone had done something like that

Now, don't confuse anti-Merlinoism with homophobia. Mark has been playing that sort of card against his critics for years. There is a big difference between being gay and being a raging, selfish, spoiled-rotten faggot.

I don't think it's libel if i said that Mark Merlino used ConFurence (and his position in furry fandom) to push a militant sexual agenda. It was social engineering at it's most clumsy and extreme. sadly though, Mark's attempts have been successful, since the very existence of site like CYD are here to testify as to the weirdness that has befallen furry fandom.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

According to _furry legend_, Merlino has been quoted as declaring that gay fandom IS furry fandom (& vice-verse).

Ah, no. What he actually did was market furfandom to gays AS gay. He's strenuously denied to anyone else that he ever said this, but the facts have been borne out both by reliable witnesses and actual ads discovered in magazines and other literature marketed to gays. No "legend" there.

Which does explain why he created ConFurence as mainly a vehicle to push his radical sexual agenda on furrydom (with unfortunate success).

Agreed. At first CF wasn't at all like that, but even as early as CF3, it was apparent that people who didn't give a damn about furries save as a sexual kink were showing up --- and many, if not most, of them were also displaying various other kinks which they brought with them.

Now, don't confuse anti-Merlinoism with homophobia. Mark has been playing that sort of card against his critics for years. There is a big difference between being gay and being a raging, selfish, spoiled-rotten faggot.

Exactly. Fact is, there are plenty of gays in the fandom who are angry at the "Pride" types --- the ones for whom it's not enough that you "tolerate" them, and who will stop at nothing short of "acceptance". Meaning specifically that they will parade about in all manner of porn gear, and if you react badly they blame YOU for being the problem.

I don't think it's libel if i said that Mark Merlino used ConFurence (and his position in furry fandom) to push a militant sexual agenda.

I don't think it's possible to truthfully say otherwise.

It was social engineering at it's most clumsy and extreme. sadly though, Mark's attempts have been successful, since the very existence of site like CYD are here to testify as to the weirdness that has befallen furry fandom.

Agreed, although I hold the position that both sides are perfectly capable of going overboard.

Chris Baird · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 78

And the funny thing is, you're obsessing about someone else's obsession. :roll:

Oooh... you were up all night with that one?

What's with all the fucking apologists here? In case you hadn't noticed, the key word for this place is "destroy". Instead these forums are being spammed with shit in a falsetto voice, ``Furry's no really that bad...''

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

And the funny thing is, you're obsessing about someone else's obsession. :roll:

Oooh... you were up all night with that one?

as if that were any better..

What's with all the fucking apologists here? In case you hadn't noticed, the key word for this place is "destroy". Instead these forums are being spammed with shit in a falsetto voice, ``Furry's no really that bad...''

first thigns first, not to slam computolio on the name, but its cryptic as fuck..when i first seen it mentioned i didnt really read the context ...i saw "crush,yiff,destroy" and i thought it was some macro/crush fetishist site and skipped over it...seriously

then i read some post hirtes made and decided to come here

all that aside...how in the motherfuck do you plan on actually destroying the fandom baird? (this should be good)
thats as fucking stupid as my hope of kicking off some sort of revolution within it

calbeck is scott malcomson...what do you expect him to say about it ? personally i dont disagree with him on most things

god forbid anyone actually has a different opinion , baird
why are you getting so pissed off?
how are the forums being "spammed"?
where is the falsetto voice coming from? where do you get this shit?

i dont think ANYONE has EVER said that furry doesnt fucking have issues all over the place ..not here anyway

it shouldnt surprise you at any rate, if anyones going to have ANY kind of stamina in dealing with furries, they either have to BE furries, have been furries, see something in the fandom, or at least be closet furries...otherwise, how fucking long can you talk about something that you dont give a shit about?

put it this way , if portal of evil and somethign awful (for example) only existed STRICTLY to make fun of FURRIES, and NO ONE else...they wouldnt exist today - because everyone would have gotten tired of it, and went home

Chris Baird · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 78

all that aside...how in the motherfuck do you plan on actually destroying the fandom baird? (this should be good) thats as fucking stupid as my hope of kicking off some sort of revolution within it

For the record, the reason I newgrouped "alt.lifestyle.furry" was to deliberately foster freakjobs that would give Furry a bad rep. (And to make Chuck Melville's head explode, who regardless of his POV, is just a shithead online.)

god forbid anyone actually has a different opinion , baird
why are you getting so pissed off?
how are the forums being "spammed"?
where is the falsetto voice coming from? where do you get this shit?

Aww, the poor baby is incapable of seeing another's point-of-view...
What's your real name, coward?

it shouldnt surprise you at any rate, if anyones going to have ANY kind of stamina in dealing with furries, they either have to BE furries, have been furries, see something in the fandom, or at least be closet furries...otherwise, how fucking long can you talk about something that you dont give a shit about?

Where did I say that I don't give a shit? I still hang around because Furry is a source of free pornography that doesn't involve exploitation of real women, but in 13 years, I've really grown to hate the cult-like aspects. There's nothing intrinsicly special creativity-wise about exclusively drawing 'fursonas' day-in day-out, but the "Furry only art" attitude of the major public archives, most cliques, etc., have made it into the "BASIC" of the amateur art world. By giving the fandom a bad rep, I'd hope to keep any potential Brendan Akherst's from falling into its clutches...

("BASIC", for those of you who never knew, is a programming language known for encouraging very poor software practices. "It is practically impossible to teach good programming style to students that have had prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration.")

Oh Woe is me... I like Furry art, but I hate Furries! I am racked by Cognitive Dissonance!

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

god forbid anyone actually has a different opinion , baird

Aww, the poor baby is incapable of seeing another's point-of-view...
What's your real name, coward?

hm judging by what i had said , your response is completely illogical
youre bitching about people "apologizing" for the fandom
i call into question whether you can deal with differing opinions -
then you tell me im incapable of seeing someone else point of view...

whatever

Where did I say that I don't give a shit?

For the record, the reason I newgrouped "alt.lifestyle.furry" was to deliberately foster freakjobs that would give Furry a bad rep.

By giving the fandom a bad rep, I'd hope to keep any potential Brendan Akherst's from falling into its clutches...

there, and there
by the way, look at all the filth you've attracted, smooth move
whats the master plan again?

1 gen fans can and in some cases did make it into pro or semi-pro work
2 gen didnt , because of all kinds of bullshit, including many talented people that are still around today
3 gen, are in some shit if things dont turn around...you arn't helping anyone baird..fun to pretend youre some kinda hero though, isnt it ?

I still hang around because Furry is a source of free pornography that doesn't involve exploitation of real women

how noble...

Oh Woe is me... I like Furry art, but I hate Furries! I am racked by Cognitive Dissonance!

not getting any sympathy from me and im basically the same way

Computolio · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 349

"Crush Yiff Destroy" is a play on a Simpsons quote, which in itself is a play on a line from "Lost In Space". Common line really, a lot of robots say CRUSH KILL DESTROY <strike>PROTECT GRANDPA AT THE BOTTOM OF THE STAIRS</strike> when they go bezerk.

See, when I thought up the name, I envisioned furrydumb trampling through the civilised world like an out-of-control robot.

Computolio · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 349

There's nothing intrinsicly special creativity-wise about exclusively drawing 'fursonas' day-in day-out, but the "Furry only art" attitude of the major public archives, most cliques, etc., have made it into the "BASIC" of the amateur art world. By giving the fandom a bad rep, I'd hope to keep any potential Brendan Akherst's from falling into its clutches...

("BASIC", for those of you who never knew, is a programming language known for encouraging very poor software practices. "It is practically impossible to teach good programming style to students that have had prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration.")

I like this metaphor. I like it a lot.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

To quote from the Fading Suns Intro booklet:

Lemme get this straight: you're quoting a non-furry RPG to justify your views on furry roleplay. Ooooookaaaay...

Role playing is role-playing, no matter weather it’s anthro animals or Warhammer 40k.

And bing, there ya go over the edge. You're merely assuming that someone who has a "fursona" automatically believes they really ARE that character at some level.

Well, duh, hang on a second while I totally rewrite my personal psyche to fit your worldview. What you have to say certainly does apply to a few people. It doesn't apply, regardless of what your personal delusions, to the whole of furry fandom, or even a large chunk of it.

Why do people need to make an alternative person to be, if they are not dissastifed in some damaging way with the person they already are?
Improving yourself yes, pretending to be someone else to put that off?
No.

As a general point, it is true that the extrems of "the furry lifestyle” and cult like aspects of furry, is indulged by people who are dissatisfied with their own lives, and therefore wish to indulge in an escapist fantasy that they are really someone else on some level.

However this fantasy does not, and will not gel with reality.
No matter how much you try to seek “refuge” in a fantasy, the real world will not change for or because of that, problems, have to be dealt with in the materiel world, in materiel ways. Adopting a “furry lifestyle” is a put off, a symptom. Not a cure.

Gee, more proof that you're either not reading, or you're simply dodging a conclusion you don't want to address. Since, after all, I held Falwell up as a direct comparison to your own statements and logic.

So if you agree with me that Falwell's full of it, you clearly are agreeing that your own argument is shaky at best.

Straw man, Falwell has nothing to do with what I purport.
You've already failed in this comparison before.

Wow. So you're a furry lifestyler?

"It never ceases to amaze me how often humanity believes what it wants to believe, rather than what it knows to be true."

Trying to muddy the water with petty semantics masturbation eh?

Ah, yes, the old "if you disagree with me, you're bought" argument. Smiley noted. -:) Of course, it happens to be a fact that the earth is perfectly capable of damaging itself, and is directly responsible for destroying in excess of 99% of all the life forms that have ever lived on the planet.

So that makes it OK on our part, to make creatures extinct does it?
Since people are “murdered” by nature, would that make it OK for me to murder you?
And would a court accept that argument?

Your own failures in the polotical sphere have been noted :o)

And it's remarkable how few furries I've ever met in my decade of being a furry who think such things. What's more impressive is that I've met far more people in the last year who seem to think ALL or MOST or at least a LOT of furries believe this.

Yes, but of course, you’re biased as an apologist for the worst of the excesses and cannot provide objective information.

Wanna replace "furries" with "mutants" and apply that to the majority of the Marvel comic line for the last, oh, twenty years? The reason this is such a prevalent storyline in furfandom is because, assuming any sort of "realism", furries would be mutants if they ever actually appeared. Ergo, furfandom is merely applying well-trodden plot concepts to a new set of characters.

The mere labelling of something as “mutants” is an arbitrary human construct, which means it is not a constant, not even among humans and is not an objective measure.
Thus you’re making an assumption there. An assumption which gels in with the oppositional ideology. This shows that you yourself have been “consumed” by it, and cannot think beyond it’s boundries.

It does not HAVE to be one thing, nor the other. It’s imagination; it must not let be stunted by the vocal demands of people who wish for tripe presented as beef.

Dude, I have this on TAPE. Falwell's exact words are "mentally disfiguring". Please don't "correct" me when I'm quoting from source material.

D00d! I know a straw man when I see it.

If you are confusing the words “mental disfigurement” with “false consciousness”, you are obviously beyond correcting.
False consciousness is not mentally disfiguring, since “Disfiguring” in the context of falwell would imply morality (and religion) sticking its head in, and morality and the materiel structures of religions are nothing more than an arbitrary human construct.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

Where did I say that I don't give a shit?

For the record, the reason I newgrouped "alt.lifestyle.furry" was to deliberately foster freakjobs that would give Furry a bad rep.

By giving the fandom a bad rep, I'd hope to keep any potential Brendan Akherst's from falling into its clutches...

there, and there
by the way, look at all the filth you've attracted, smooth move
whats the master plan again?

1 gen fans can and in some cases did make it into pro or semi-pro work
2 gen didnt , because of all kinds of bullshit, including many talented people that are still around today
3 gen, are in some shit if things dont turn around...you arn't helping anyone baird..fun to pretend youre some kinda hero though, isnt it ?

It’s rather odd, since he claims to believe in “live and let live.”
Therefore in theory, he should not be complaining at all, and merely letting the people he doesn’t like go about their business and staying as far away from them (furry fandom) as possible.

If he really believes that, why does he even hang around *any* furry things at all or anything even connected with them?
Oh, he does it for the free pr0n, yet surely, that is what the kind of people that his like moan about do?

Since he says he newsgrouped alt.lifestyle.furry with the specific intention of attracting the kind of people he claims to hate…

…I can only conclude that either he likes them really…

OR he gets off on having something to complain and moan about and also to compare unfavourably with himself to serve as an ego booster, since he believes himself to be better than them.

Chris Baird · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 78

It’s rather odd, since he claims to believe in “live and let live.”
Therefore in theory, he should not be complaining at all, and merely letting the people he doesn’t like go about their business and staying as far away from them (furry fandom) as possible.
If he really believes that, why does he even hang around *any* furry things at all or anything even connected with them?
Oh, he does it for the free pr0n, yet surely, that is what the kind of people that his like moan about do?

Since he says he newsgrouped alt.lifestyle.furry with the specific intention of attracting the kind of people he claims to hate…

…I can only conclude that either he likes them really…

OR he gets off on having something to complain and moan about and also to compare unfavourably with himself to serve as an ego booster, since he believes himself to be better than them.

My God there's some thick people around.

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

There's nothing intrinsicly special creativity-wise about exclusively drawing 'fursonas' day-in day-out, but the "Furry only art" attitude of the major public archives, most cliques, etc., have made it into the "BASIC" of the amateur art world. By giving the fandom a bad rep, I'd hope to keep any potential Brendan Akherst's from falling into its clutches...

("BASIC", for those of you who never knew, is a programming language known for encouraging very poor software practices. "It is practically impossible to teach good programming style to students that have had prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration.")

I like this metaphor. I like it a lot.

no, its good, ill give him credit on that. but watch out, it is flawed

if he wasnt so damn definitive about it , maybe threw in a few more modifiers it would be better

the problems arise that he is refering to a specific "refrigerator door" type of furry art only. and doesnt touch on that the lack of critism is why these people do not improve. and that not networking with other art communities (in a way, sites like side7 and deviant art it DOES merge) kind of isloates furry art. he also makes the foolish assumption that giving the fandom a bad reputation will keep talented people out...well how fucking backwards is that? if someones going to draw animal-human hybrids or cartoon animals or whatever...they are going to...he not going to save anyone. all the while saying he likes furry art...so he doesnt want anyone GOOD drawing it...this type of shit gives me a headache

as far as the BASIC comparision, as someone who has only programmed in very low level OOP and some BASIC, yes there is truth to this. i did have trouble trying to learn C ...but what the fuck? even the smallest amount of determination will overcome this obstacle. you start the fuck over again. technically they teach kids the wrong way of looking at math equations all the way through garde school till junior high, THEN they start teaching what is actually going on. and guess what , the student relearn, and understand it correctly. "its practically impossible to teach..etc" IF the teacher is incompetant or doesnt understand that the student has previously used BASIC....if they do, then they should be able to get around this

there is probably only a few select cases where drawing "furry" has actually interfered with drawing other things ....

"Crush Yiff Destroy" is a play on a Simpsons quote, which in itself is a play on a line from "Lost In Space". Common line really, a lot of robots say CRUSH KILL DESTROY <strike>PROTECT GRANDPA AT THE BOTTOM OF THE STAIRS</strike> when they go bezerk.

See, when I thought up the name, I envisioned furrydumb trampling through the civilised world like an out-of-control robot.

ya i figured the robot thing after i got here. i just figured id mentioned my weird initial interperatation. mainly because baird was implying that the site existed to destroy the fandom...which i think we can agree is next to impossible.

Chris Baird · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 78

the problems arise that he is refering to <...>

he also makes the foolish assumption that giving the fandom a bad reputation <...>

You're very definate on what I'm saying, aren't you?

I wish phpBB2 had killfiles... :-/
(the 'Emoticons' look daggy too.)

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

the problems arise that he is refering to <...>

he also makes the foolish assumption that giving the fandom a bad reputation <...>

You're very definate on what I'm saying, aren't you?

I wish phpBB2 had killfiles... :-/
(the 'Emoticons' look daggy too.)

I don’t think your habit of swearing at people and trying to avoid all criticisms works so well here.
Remember you, can leave any time you like. No one is forceing you to post, or even to be involved with anything even relateing to furry (problamatic as it is)

Also, On the grounds of consistency, since you claim to be hanging around Solely for the pr0n, does that make you any worse than those people who created those “chakats” and also soley exist for pr0n?

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

It’s rather odd, since he claims to believe in “live and let live.”
Therefore in theory, he should not be complaining at all, and merely letting the people he doesn’t like go about their business and staying as far away from them (furry fandom) as possible.
If he really believes that, why does he even hang around *any* furry things at all or anything even connected with them?
Oh, he does it for the free pr0n, yet surely, that is what the kind of people that his like moan about do?

Since he says he newsgrouped alt.lifestyle.furry with the specific intention of attracting the kind of people he claims to hate…

…I can only conclude that either he likes them really…

OR he gets off on having something to complain and moan about and also to compare unfavourably with himself to serve as an ego booster, since he believes himself to be better than them.

My God there's some thick people around.

You claim to hate many “furry freak jobs”, yet you want to attract them and you even set up alt.lifestyle.furry where the “furry freakjobs” can congregate.

You say that you only hang around for the pr0n, Coincidently, That is what so many of the “furry freakjobs” that you lambast do.

What I want is consistency and logic, Something sorely lacking in much of the peopel involved with furry.

Since you claim only to want pr0n from furry fandom, you should therefore not care, or even be pleased, as to how this has affected the furry fandom in such a negative way over the years.

Or else, you want to see pr0n relegated to its proper place (i.e carefully and tastefully concealed from the mainstream or casual person) and the emphasis placed on non-pr0ngraphic furry art.

You can’t just demand pr0n, pr0n and more pr0n, without acknowledging that this is the kind of behaviour and demands, which has lead to badness in the first place.

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

You're very definate on what I'm saying, aren't you?

yup, sure am
this is an irrelevant and laughable attempt to paint me as some sort of hypocrite

i pointed out where your comparison was incorrect and relied on false assumptions

I wish phpBB2 had killfiles... :-/

not surprising

Computolio · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 349

This argument is getting really dumb and out of control really fast.

Chris Baird continues to hang around furrydumb to indulge his kink. He knows that any chance of it producing anything else of value to the outside world disappeared long ago. Because of this, he was afraid that more and more good cartoonists would get sucked in (since a lot of talented people have, and many never recovered), and so he started up alt.lifestyle.furry as an odd strategy for preventing that. This doesn't mean he has even a remotely favorable opinion of the lifestylers and assorted dumbasses, this means that he wanted to give them their own internet retard pen so that they could be more easily avoided by everyone else. He did it to help newbies discover the dark side of furry much faster then they would otherwise.

Kind of a dumb-sounding plan, but you know what? It's funny. If you can stand it's utter creepiness, alt.lifestyle.furry is a total comedy goldmine. I like Baird's attitude; it mirrors that of a hentai enthusiast in that he's getting his porn and getting out while not being stupid along the way or acting like it's something to be proud of. You may think he's CONTRIBUTING TO THE DOWNFALL OF FURRY OH NO but you forget one crucial thing: it already irreversibly went to shit long ago. He's just dancing on the ashes.

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

This argument is getting really retarded and out of control really fast.

i dont think its retarded at all, a bunch of valid points have been raised

Chris Baird continues to hang around furrydumb to indulge his kink.

yes, but

"I still hang around because Furry is a source of free pornography that doesn't involve exploitation of real women" -thats what he actually said which is probably the worst excuse ive ever seen

in fact, ill tell ya what, ill try that as a pickup line next time im at a bar
"hey, can you believe how the pornography industry exploits women so badly??...yeah im not into any of that.. i only look at pictures of naked cartoon animals.." same bogus "im sensitive" routine that never works ...only this time its really fucked up and bizarre

He knows that any chance of it producing anything else of value to the outside world disappeared long ago.

i've seen evidence to the contrary

Kind of a dumb-sounding plan, but you know what? It's funny. If you can stand it's utter creepiness, alt.lifestyle.furry is a total comedy goldmine. I like Baird's attitude; it mirrors that of a hentai enthusiast in that he's getting his porn and getting out while not being stupid along the way or acting like it's something to be proud of. You may think he's CONTRIBUTING TO THE DOWNFALL OF FURRY OH NO but you forget one crucial thing: it already irreversibly went to shit long ago. He's just dancing on the ashes.

it IS funny..but it still puts him in the same zone as all the others who contributed to the downfall...only where merlino and the media did it out of selfishness, baird did it because he thinks he some kind of genius.

id say it STARTED going to shit in the mid 90's

youre forgetting the very important point that furry at an absolute maximum is 20-25 years old. although until maybe mid-late 80's it was still developing before it was steered off course. merlino was right, only in that adding so much of a sexual element - it did cause it to grow fast, which is probably exactly what he (and no one else) wanted. at at least for the cost.
at any rate, my point is there has 3 or maybe even 4 waves of fans at this point. the first guys, people like jerry collins, shawn keller, steve gallacci, while still around are getting older, theres new people showing up over time. burned fur was only about 5 years ago, there will be more backlash, and one of these times, things are going to change. id also like to point out that over the past few years, furry is becoming slowly less and less of a sausage party. more girls are started to show up. (im not talking about the beasts either) im talking about an element that will probably stabilize things as time goes on.

Chris Baird · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 78

You're very definate on what I'm saying, aren't you?

To elucidate, processing anything that's said in an on-line forum to the Nth degree, deducting THE HARD TRUHT, and ignoring that human reality and character is not Black/White, as you've ("mouse") been doing, is not a good habit.

"I still hang around because Furry is a source of free pornography that doesn't involve exploitation of real women"

thats what he actually said which is probably the worst excuse ive ever seen

"Crack-whores make me so hot!" :-P

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

To elucidate, processing anything that's said in an on-line forum to the Nth degree, deducting THE HARD TRUHT, and ignoring that human reality and character is not Black/White, as you've ("mouse") been doing, is not a good habit.

neither is smoking , but i still do it.

anyway, why didnt you just say this in the first place. yes, you're right, to a degree - but then again i really dont see what makes it such a bad habit.
surely you, big brain, realize that language can be a dangerous thing

it can distort someone's reality and perception of an issue

so believe me, if you make a statement like you did, and its inaccurate...dont ever think i wont call you on it.

i dont see what the problem is here

"Crack-whores make me so hot!" :-P

ah, i take it your refering to skinny models, porn stars, pinup girls n stuff
not all of them are on crack, just most of them are abused runaways etc
they are more likely to be doing coke, pills and alcohol than actual crack. its the prostitutes who usually smoke the crack.

so why arent you reading regular human cartoon porn stuff like cherry...if thats still around

Wakestar · Recusant Joined: 27 Aug 2003 Posts: 20

The problem is not necessarily fursonas, but rather IMO, the pseudo angst goth rebellious teenagers who cause trouble by adopting them and becoming a furry lifestyler in order to annoy people and find some group of which to be a part of.

Zing, dude. :lol: