Crush...Yiff...Destroy!

Quatrewolf · Qualificator Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 39

http://tailhole.org/poems/games.php :roll:

Some poor people like me just can't theaten some fatcat in the white house to get the people from killing wolves because of loss of livestock.(which I might add,people's money comes from the livestock...who probably needs better protection than usual to avoid wolf or feral dog attacks)

Atleast,he'll be dead before I am,though.

I'm 21 and healthy in life and him..........?

Kadius · Venter Joined: 10 Feb 2004 Posts: 254

I stopped after I read 'Tailhole.org'

ZenZhu · Vociferator Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 669

Some poor people like me just can't theaten some fatcat in the white house to get the people from killing wolves because of loss of livestock.(which I might add,people's money comes from the livestock...who probably needs better protection than usual to avoid wolf or feral dog attacks)

Others of us just get too jaded. I went into environmental work with the ideal of changing the world and cleaning up the planet. But, the world doesn't want to be changed. And some of us just don't have it in us to dedicate our lives to fighting the world. I'm grateful that there are people out there working to change attitudes and all, but most of them don't pick their battles too wisely. For myself, though, I'll just keep my little corner of the globe clean and recycle and stuff like that.

They say "I love Wolves"
Yet they won't help you
Nor lift a finger to save you

Because of love like this
Your enemies shall surely win
Your family will surely die

It takes more than a petition
More than saying "I've helped"
It takes more than words
It takes devotion
It takes fighting back

Wolves are being killed
While those who say "I love Wolves"
Play games while you die

Also, that poem is terrible, even for free-form poetry. It's more like a LiveJournal entry with the sentences cut up to look artsy. He gets bonus demerits for putting a homofurry yiff scene to verse. The bouncing cock icon on the index page really rounds it all out.

Tailhole cries for wolves
Writing bad verse for their plight
While he fucks his dog

Quatrewolf · Qualificator Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 39

Tailhole cries for wolves
Writing bad verse for their plight
While he fucks his dog

of course he puts 'murr' for a sound of pleasure!

Only furries put that and for him to be some sort of know-it-all actual wolf/wolf expert,he should know that wolves don't "murr"!

1 point for for being close to a better wolf expert than his ass....matter of fact,the way he acts...he seems like a domestic dog inside rather than a wolf.
Maybe because he has a pack of 'wolves',when in truth he just owns dogs(check his all aroused canine photo gallery) or because he acts like a pompus ass like a dog does when get mad at a human and bites him/her?

Camels only murr..... :wink:

Khroan · Qualificator Joined: 29 Dec 2003 Posts: 38

quatrewolf why are you posting here

Quatrewolf · Qualificator Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 39

quatrewolf why are you posting here

Hmm.........

I smell a whiff of "eat all furries" here.... :lol:

DA · Vociferator Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 355

Can someone confirm something for me? I've heard that our dear Ebola lupus's pictures are nothing but cheap paintovers/manips. Anybody got any proof?

Michael Hirtes · Vociferator Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 612

Okay, if it bothers you, think of the situation more in an ElfQuest frame of mind.

Granted, EQ fans are a pretty lame bunch in their own way, but at least they didn't invent the word "Yiff", right

Charisma · Prattler Joined: 03 Jan 2004 Posts: 163

Quatrewolf, did you come here from Ebon's forum? I thought I saw you there ages ago when I went to check out what was going on.

Quatrewolf · Qualificator Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 39

Quatrewolf, did you come here from Ebon's forum? I thought I saw you there ages ago when I went to check out what was going on.

Not really.....

I been coming here for awhile(and EAF as a lurker) when the fandom started pissing me off a bit.

Since I have an DA account also and recently he's been acting like an ass these days,I decided to talk to him.....of course,when when he didn't listen to what I said and puts on "la-la-lala-la,I can't hear you....human"mask. I decided to insulted him by calling him a dogfucker.

Believe me,I don't suffer fools gladly. :x

Khroan · Qualificator Joined: 29 Dec 2003 Posts: 38

Believe me,I don't suffer fools gladly. :x

hahahahhahahaha

Jerry Collins · Prattler Joined: 16 Jul 2003 Posts: 186

I can't help but think of the unlucky Egyptologist from the Brandon Fraiser "Mummy""FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!DO NOT READ THE BOOK!later young'uns (Jer)

The Outsider · Coadjutor Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Posts: 100

I can't help but think of the unlucky Egyptologist from the Brandon Fraiser "Mummy""FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!DO NOT READ THE BOOK!later young'uns (Jer)

Yeah...like an issue of SHANDA THE PANDA (heh).

The Outsider

Snowolf · Qualificator Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

Can someone confirm something for me? I've heard that our dear Ebola lupus's pictures are nothing but cheap paintovers/manips. Anybody got any proof?

I've seen how "Ebon" creates his artwork, the steps he takes, and I can assure you they are not paintovers/manips or anything of the sort. Like any kind of art, it takes time to develop a skill, he has been working on fur textures for well over three years and that gives a lot of time to get good at what he does.

Snowolf · Qualificator Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

Quatrewolf, did you come here from Ebon's forum? I thought I saw you there ages ago when I went to check out what was going on.

Not really.....

I been coming here for awhile(and EAF as a lurker) when the fandom started pissing me off a bit.

Since I have an DA account also and recently he's been acting like an ass these days,I decided to talk to him.....of course,when when he didn't listen to what I said and puts on "la-la-lala-la,I can't hear you....human"mask. I decided to insulted him by calling him a dogfucker.

Believe me,I don't suffer fools gladly. :x

Quatre, looking at how you've been carrying yourself here, i would likely be an ass around you as well. Ebon's pretty blunt about how he doesn't like most people.. and, you are a human, or at least act it(which is enough for me to call you human).

He doesn't "need" to listen to you, and I'm surprised he even did la-la-la at all and not just ignore you as you are quite a whiny piece of shit.. hardly worth anyones time. ;)

Well anyway, I'm not going to waste any more of my time..
Ta ta..

Quatrewolf · Qualificator Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 39

Quatre, looking at how you've been carrying yourself here, i would likely be an ass around you as well. Ebon's pretty blunt about how he doesn't like most people.. and, you are a human, or at least act it(which is enough for me to call you human).

He doesn't "need" to listen to you, and I'm surprised he even did la-la-la at all and not just ignore you as you are quite a whiny piece of shit.. hardly worth anyones time. ;)

Well anyway, I'm not going to waste any more of my time..
Ta ta..

No,he doesn't.....he said to me that he hated ALL,I repeat ALL humans and wished they didn't existed. Try asking him that,missy whom is a human. And all's I did at first was asked if they wasn't a day he hated humans. If he hated most humans,he should make it revelent then to make himself act like an ass.

Yes,I am a human because of what I use in this world...but I'm a coyote in itself online sometimes. I don't think I am one inside...but I do see coyotes in dark places and sometimes when I close my eyes. Unlike dear Ebon Lupus(which I'm asking you why are you bringing this shit up again,this was in June!),I don't go around and prod myself like a show dog and tell people who tries(me) to be his friend when all he says is that he wishes the human race would be exinict.

How that not being atleast presentable to a human who loves wolves?

And the whole listen to me,who says he had to listen to me? I just said I do work outside and help wildlife. But if he(a 41-year old godforbid man) wants to act like a child,then let him.

And calling names much? That's childish,please stop lurking and deal that people stay stuff that you friend did.

I won't sink to that childish level of thinking.

So you and your lousy friend can suck my cloitis!:p

DA · Vociferator Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 355

Can someone confirm something for me? I've heard that our dear Ebola lupus's pictures are nothing but cheap paintovers/manips. Anybody got any proof?

I've seen how "Ebon" creates his artwork, the steps he takes, and I can assure you they are not paintovers/manips or anything of the sort. Like any kind of art, it takes time to develop a skill, he has been working on fur textures for well over three years and that gives a lot of time to get good at what he does.

Which explains why a friend recently dug up a photo that was almost an EXACT match for one of his wolf images once resized. I didn't realise that it was possible for a wolf cub to accidently mimic the pose he used.

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/swcbd/species/mexwolf/images/wolfpups.jpg

Vs:-

http://art.tailhole.org/gallery/tame/plane_evil

Now tell me that's skill and not a paintover/manip. I can flip images and paint over them too, but I prefer to do real art.

Kadius · Venter Joined: 10 Feb 2004 Posts: 254

<...>Now tell me that's skill and not a paintover/manip. I can flip images and paint over them too, but I prefer to do real art.

I can say two things about those pictures:

1.) Ebon's picture isn't created from the one you've posted, though the pose of the right cub is very similar.

2.) I've taken a good close-up look at Ebon's image, and in my opinion it looks a little suspicious. There are things that point to the possibility of it being a photomanip. For one, you can't see any sketchlines. I've edited and looked at many drawings and it's very rare not to see sketchlines. But perhaps this is just overkill of the blur/smudge tool. The cubs do however look like there where once real and blurred all to hell to be used in this picture. Or that someone likes the blur tool too much when they're coloring.

Also, the quality of the cubs are much higher than the adult wolf, it's mildly suspicious. I find it a little hard to believe that someone skilled enough to draw those cubs so well, would draw that head on the adult wolf.

Edit: I made the mistake of looking through his gallery. I can say one thing, he makes sure his nutsacks are right in full view and that his tailholes are nice and puckered out.

The goggles... they do nothing.

Snowolf · Qualificator Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

Quatre, looking at how you've been carrying yourself here, i would likely be an ass around you as well. Ebon's pretty blunt about how he doesn't like most people.. and, you are a human, or at least act it(which is enough for me to call you human).

He doesn't "need" to listen to you, and I'm surprised he even did la-la-la at all and not just ignore you as you are quite a whiny piece of shit.. hardly worth anyones time. ;)

Well anyway, I'm not going to waste any more of my time..
Ta ta..

No,he doesn't.....he said to me that he hated ALL,I repeat ALL humans and wished they didn't existed. Try asking him that,missy whom is a human. And all's I did at first was asked if they wasn't a day he hated humans. If he hated most humans,he should make it revelent then to make himself act like an ass.

Yes,I am a human because of what I use in this world...but I'm a coyote in itself online sometimes. I don't think I am one inside...but I do see coyotes in dark places and sometimes when I close my eyes. Unlike dear Ebon Lupus(which I'm asking you why are you bringing this shit up again,this was in June!),I don't go around and prod myself like a show dog and tell people who tries(me) to be his friend when all he says is that he wishes the human race would be exinict.

How that not being atleast presentable to a human who loves wolves?

And the whole listen to me,who says he had to listen to me? I just said I do work outside and help wildlife. But if he(a 41-year old godforbid man) wants to act like a child,then let him.

And calling names much? That's childish,please stop lurking and deal that people stay stuff that you friend did.

I won't sink to that childish level of thinking.

So you and your lousy friend can suck my cloitis!:p

I told you that you're a waste of my time, why post to me again? Go crawl back under your rock where you can be sheltered from real life some more. :b

Snowolf · Qualificator Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

<...>Now tell me that's skill and not a paintover/manip. I can flip images and paint over them too, but I prefer to do real art.

I can say two things about those pictures:

1.) Ebon's picture isn't created from the one you've posted, though the pose of the right cub is very similar.

2.) I've taken a good close-up look at Ebon's image, and in my opinion it looks a little suspicious. There are things that point to the possibility of it being a photomanip. For one, you can't see any sketchlines. I've edited and looked at many drawings and it's very rare not to see sketchlines. But perhaps this is just overkill of the blur/smudge tool. The cubs do however look like there where once real and blurred all to hell to be used in this picture. Or that someone likes the blur tool too much when they're coloring.

Also, the quality of the cubs are much higher than the adult wolf, it's mildly suspicious. I find it a little hard to believe that someone skilled enough to draw those cubs so well, would draw that head on the adult wolf.

Edit: I made the mistake of looking through his gallery. I can say one thing, he makes sure his nutsacks are right in full view and that his tailholes are nice and puckered out.

The goggles... they do nothing.

1- How many artists do you know who do artwork that is even partially realisitic without using a reference? He doesn't like pups, and as such I can understand him needing or at least wanting to use a reference to do that picture..

2- The adult wolf is dead, little emotion can be shown through it in the image, so more work was done on the pups to bring them out, make them seem alive and full of emotion to help portray the meaning of the image..

3- As for sketch lines, well, seeing as it's done entirely on the computer with psp and many many layers, the chances of anyone finding "sketch lines" is kinda slim. ^.^

Again, he's been doing this for over three years :b

__
Edit: Here, have a couple examples of the beginning steps to his artwork..
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/8271628/
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/8279267/

Paul · Venter Joined: 01 Feb 2004 Posts: 215

Can someone confirm something for me? I've heard that our dear Ebola lupus's pictures are nothing but cheap paintovers/manips. Anybody got any proof?

I've seen how "Ebon" creates his artwork, the steps he takes, and I can assure you they are not paintovers/manips or anything of the sort. Like any kind of art, it takes time to develop a skill, he has been working on fur textures for well over three years and that gives a lot of time to get good at what he does.

Which explains why a friend recently dug up a photo that was almost an EXACT match for one of his wolf images once resized. I didn't realise that it was possible for a wolf cub to accidently mimic the pose he used.

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/swcbd/species/mexwolf/images/wolfpups.jpg

Vs:-

http://art.tailhole.org/gallery/tame/plane_evil

Now tell me that's skill and not a paintover/manip. I can flip images and paint over them too, but I prefer to do real art.

You can bet your sweet ass this is a paintover or photo manipulation. Look below, all I've done is flip the photo and scale it down. The cub in the photo and the one in Ebon Lupus' picture are the exact same. It might be a paintover; but more likely he's simply given the cub a replace colour, hue/saturation and brightness/contrast adjustment in PhotoShop (or whatever application he uses) and then blurred the whole picture to make the different bits and pieces he's used seem less out of place next to each other.

Edit: I made the mistake of looking through his gallery. I can say one thing, he makes sure his nutsacks are right in full view and that his tailholes are nice and puckered out.

I made the same mistake. This forum needs a "puke" icon.

Charisma · Prattler Joined: 03 Jan 2004 Posts: 163

Has anyone confronted him with those pictures? I'd be interested in his repsonse.

ZenZhu · Vociferator Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 669

Not to defend anything regarding the puppyfucker, but there really isn't one correct way to produce artwork. Using an existing image as a base is certainly a viable means of producing an image. I reference "sexy robot" artist Hajime Sorayama in another thread. He has a picture of a robot mermaid that you can tell was based on the first nude photo of Marilyn Monroe to ever appear in Playboy. But, I'm sure Sorayama will freely admit this.

Now, if DoggieraperLupus is claiming that the image is completely his own, that's a different story. The two pups are undeniably the same... even the shading is identical.

Photomanipulations can be considered a viable art form in themselves, but it's another thing if he denies it's a manipulation.

Of course, any piss-ant furry can write poetry and make drawings.. er.. photomanipulations and huddle in a corner and weep for the world. It takes a man* to get up off his duff and do something.. and not just protest.. but seek out viable ways for man and animal to live together.. so that animals aren't being shot to defend livestock, but so that ranchers aren't losing livestock.

But, then, he's not a man, is he? Maybe we can dress him up in a fursuit and set him out on the tundra. Fur and Loathing in Denali.

nnnnnnnnneeeeeoooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwww

KABLAM

"Well, from this height, it looked like a wolf."

What's funny is that I'm opposed to the idea of inhumane and unchecked measures of maintaining animal populations... such as ranchers shooting any wolf/coyote that gets near their livestock... but........... something about seeing Ebon's work makes me want to go line one up in the crosshairs. That's the funny thing with strong-arm "treehugger" tactics. Rather than rallying support to their cause, it often turns away people that would otherwise support it.

Call me crazy, but I wouldn't think anyone that truly felt for the plight of wolves would subjugate them into sexual objects like he does. That's kind of like a feminist group giving Larry Flynt a public service award.

*in the non-gender-specific sense of the word, of course...

Snowolf · Qualificator Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

Can someone confirm something for me? I've heard that our dear Ebola lupus's pictures are nothing but cheap paintovers/manips. Anybody got any proof?

I've seen how "Ebon" creates his artwork, the steps he takes, and I can assure you they are not paintovers/manips or anything of the sort. Like any kind of art, it takes time to develop a skill, he has been working on fur textures for well over three years and that gives a lot of time to get good at what he does.

Which explains why a friend recently dug up a photo that was almost an EXACT match for one of his wolf images once resized. I didn't realise that it was possible for a wolf cub to accidently mimic the pose he used.

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/swcbd/species/mexwolf/images/wolfpups.jpg

Vs:-

http://art.tailhole.org/gallery/tame/plane_evil

Now tell me that's skill and not a paintover/manip. I can flip images and paint over them too, but I prefer to do real art.

You can bet your sweet ass this is a paintover or photo manipulation. Look below, all I've done is flip the photo and scale it down. The cub in the photo and the one in Ebon Lupus' picture are the exact same. It might be a paintover; but more likely he's simply given the cub a replace colour, hue/saturation and brightness/contrast adjustment in PhotoShop (or whatever application he uses) and then blurred the whole picture to make the different bits and pieces he's used seem less out of place next to each other.

Edit: I made the mistake of looking through his gallery. I can say one thing, he makes sure his nutsacks are right in full view and that his tailholes are nice and puckered out.

I made the same mistake. This forum needs a "puke" icon.

Because someone uses a reference and does a good job at reproducing an image off of it they automatically just "had" to have manipulated a photo huh? Mmkay, keep tellin' yourself that kiddo.. I've posted links for how he does his artwork, beyond that is just your closed and sheltered mind that seeks so desperaitly to find something to bash.

Here's an idea, let's not waste time trying to find fault in people and do something, oh, I don't know... productive? Get a life, geeze.

Oh, and as for them having their testicles, sheath, penis, anus visable.. well, suppose i shouldn't try to explain it. You just seem sheltered. :)

Snowolf · Qualificator Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

Has anyone confronted him with those pictures? I'd be interested in his repsonse.

Define confronted? I've asked him about that image and he said he did use it as a reference, but knowing him he'd not have just copied, croped and edited it, he'd not have any pride in his work if that was all he did to make it. :b

Snowolf · Qualificator Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

Not to defend anything regarding the puppyfucker, but there really isn't one correct way to produce artwork. Using an existing image as a base is certainly a viable means of producing an image. I reference "sexy robot" artist Hajime Sorayama in another thread. He has a picture of a robot mermaid that you can tell was based on the first nude photo of Marilyn Monroe to ever appear in Playboy. But, I'm sure Sorayama will freely admit this.

Now, if DoggieraperLupus is claiming that the image is completely his own, that's a different story. The two pups are undeniably the same... even the shading is identical.

Photomanipulations can be considered a viable art form in themselves, but it's another thing if he denies it's a manipulation.

Of course, any piss-ant furry can write poetry and make drawings.. er.. photomanipulations and huddle in a corner and weep for the world. It takes a man* to get up off his duff and do something.. and not just protest.. but seek out viable ways for man and animal to live together.. so that animals aren't being shot to defend livestock, but so that ranchers aren't losing livestock.

But, then, he's not a man, is he? Maybe we can dress him up in a fursuit and set him out on the tundra. Fur and Loathing in Denali.

nnnnnnnnneeeeeoooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwww

KABLAM

"Well, from this height, it looked like a wolf."

What's funny is that I'm opposed to the idea of inhumane and unchecked measures of maintaining animal populations... such as ranchers shooting any wolf/coyote that gets near their livestock... but........... something about seeing Ebon's work makes me want to go line one up in the crosshairs. That's the funny thing with strong-arm "treehugger" tactics. Rather than rallying support to their cause, it often turns away people that would otherwise support it.

Call me crazy, but I wouldn't think anyone that truly felt for the plight of wolves would subjugate them into sexual objects like he does. That's kind of like a feminist group giving Larry Flynt a public service award.

*in the non-gender-specific sense of the word, of course...

And what would YOU do to save animals? You seem fond of them, at least by how you're wording things.. but what have or are you doing to help anyone or anything? o.O

Protest = peaceful, would you rather he filled a vehicle with explosives, drove it into your town and blew it up to demonstrate that he doesn't like what people are doing or such? I think that protesting is the best way to go about most anything, and it obviously works if you've managed to make it through high school and paid attention in history class..

And what's this about wanting to go shoot animals simply because an artist draws them anatomically correct? Have you ever looked closely at a wolf? Do you know what one looks like beyond simply saying "It looks like a big dog"? His art rarely is ment to draw support, it's ment to depict something he see's or feels, just like all artwork. Poetry, Paintings, Drawings, Music.. all are made to express things, and are not often made for anyone but their creator(s).

You think that because he draws wolves in sexual situations that he doesn't care about them? He knows more about them than just about anyone who isn't considered an "expert" on wolves. He spreads information about them and helps to distinguish the truth from the lies and misconseptions..

Hmm, but then since you are here "wanting" to hate someone, I suppose it's always easy to try and bitch and call names about someone who isn't there to defend themselves or the like. Humans call those sorts of people cowards ;)

Paul · Venter Joined: 01 Feb 2004 Posts: 215

Not to defend anything regarding the puppyfucker, but there really isn't one correct way to produce artwork. Using an existing image as a base is certainly a viable means of producing an image. I reference "sexy robot" artist Hajime Sorayama in another thread. He has a picture of a robot mermaid that you can tell was based on the first nude photo of Marilyn Monroe to ever appear in Playboy. But, I'm sure Sorayama will freely admit this.

Now, if DoggieraperLupus is claiming that the image is completely his own, that's a different story. The two pups are undeniably the same... even the shading is identical.

Photomanipulations can be considered a viable art form in themselves, but it's another thing if he denies it's a manipulation.

I agree, there's nothing wrong with the method in itself (although publishing a direct paintover/manipulation of a photo you haven't cleared the right to use is a copyright violation) - and from a purely technical viewpoint, Ebon Lupus' pictures aren't bad. The content on the other hand...

I just put up the comparative picture because

I've seen how "Ebon" creates his artwork, the steps he takes, and I can assure you they are not paintovers/manips or anything of the sort.

... which, at least in this particular case, obviously isn't true.

I've asked him about that image and he said he did use it as a reference, but knowing him he'd not have just copied, croped and edited it, he'd not have any pride in his work if that was all he did to make it. :b

Well if Snowolf is to be trusted, Ebon Lupus does claim the image is completely his own. Yeah, right.

Because someone uses a reference and does a good job at reproducing an image off of it they automatically just "had" to have manipulated a photo huh? Mmkay, keep tellin' yourself that kiddo.. I've posted links for how he does his artwork, beyond that is just your closed and sheltered mind that seeks so desperaitly to find something to bash.

And you refuse to acknowledge what's plain for all to see: It's a direct copy.

PS: I laugh at your puny invective.

Kadius · Venter Joined: 10 Feb 2004 Posts: 254

Because someone uses a reference and does a good job at reproducing an image off of it they automatically just "had" to have manipulated a photo huh? Mmkay, keep tellin' yourself that kiddo.. I've posted links for how he does his artwork, beyond that is just your closed and sheltered mind that seeks so desperaitly to find something to bash.

Here's an idea, let's not waste time trying to find fault in people and do something, oh, I don't know... productive? Get a life, geeze.

Oh, and as for them having their testicles, sheath, penis, anus visable.. well, suppose i shouldn't try to explain it. You just seem sheltered. :)

'
OH NOS YOU HAVE INSULTED US ON TEH INTARWEB.

I'm not bothered by the genitals/anuses. It's the attention he pays them.

You know, you're either obsessed with Ebon 'Dogfucker' Lupus, or you actually are him.

I'm voting on the later.

Snowolf · Qualificator Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

Because someone uses a reference and does a good job at reproducing an image off of it they automatically just "had" to have manipulated a photo huh? Mmkay, keep tellin' yourself that kiddo.. I've posted links for how he does his artwork, beyond that is just your closed and sheltered mind that seeks so desperaitly to find something to bash.

Here's an idea, let's not waste time trying to find fault in people and do something, oh, I don't know... productive? Get a life, geeze.

Oh, and as for them having their testicles, sheath, penis, anus visable.. well, suppose i shouldn't try to explain it. You just seem sheltered. :)
'
OH NOS YOU HAVE INSULTED US ON TEH INTARWEB.

I'm not bothered by the genitals/anuses. It's the attention he pays them.

You know, you're either obsessed with Ebon 'Dogfucker' Lupus, or you actually are him.

I'm voting on the later.

"Obsessed"? No.
Me Ebon? Wish I was..

No, he's a dear friend of mine and I've seen his art and how he makes it while standing behind him and looking over his shoulder.

But it's alright, you can think as you'd like. Lie to yourself/yourselves all you want.. You don't want to believe the truth and wish to say that he just can't make such beautiful pieces of artwork without having to jack bits from here or there.. what's more your rather unkind comments all seem to be based off the fact you're all sexually frustrated and can't stand to look at something that just might cause arrousal be it in yourself or others. :b

But seriously..
You all should go get laid.

Kadius · Venter Joined: 10 Feb 2004 Posts: 254

But it's alright, you can think as you'd like. Lie to yourself/yourselves all you want.. You don't want to believe the truth and wish to say that he just can't make such beautiful pieces of artwork without having to jack bits from here or there.. what's more your rather unkind comments all seem to be based off the fact you're all sexually frustrated and can't stand to look at something that just might cause arrousal be it in yourself or others. :b

But seriously..
You all should go get laid.

I love your attempts at being condescending, but such comments are old hat to me, sorry. And the part about his art being 100% original. It's clearly not, as the two pictures Paul posted show. There's no denying it.

As for Ebon's pictures being arousing, you must forget WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WOLVES. I'm sorry, but I'm not a zoophile. Having sex with animals in only for deranged and desperate individuals. But ,I thought you liked his art for it's artistic merit. Right?

Would you like to try again, or are you going to throw a verbal temper tantrum because someone doesn't doesn't agree with your opinion?

Quatrewolf · Qualificator Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 39

Snosheep,go away.

All you do is baa baa talk! :lol:

I don't care for sex....unlike you,I didn't read your comments,but thanks for coming anyway. You've been laughable!

If I'm such a waste of time,why bring this up again when you could've did this in June?

Oh,go shoo you mutt!:P

The New Meat · Vociferator Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 403

what's more your rather unkind comments all seem to be based off the fact you're all sexually frustrated and can't stand to look at something that just might cause arrousal be it in yourself or others. :b

But seriously..
You all should go get laid.

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAA

Please never change.

OMG HE'S SO RIGHT UH TOTALLY FAPPING IT TO WOLVES NOW

MagKnightX · Prattler Joined: 04 Dec 2003 Posts: 196

Although I cannot truly speak for anyone other than myself, I have never known anybody who was aroused by a picture of a wolf, much less one who expressed arousal.

Here's to EbonLupus- may a wolf bite his testicles off and his disgusting fetishes be exposed on the six o'clock news.

Genghis · Venter Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 214

Again, he's been doing this for over three years :b

You're shitting me, right?

Three WHOLE years?

I mean, someone who's been doing something for three years must be a grandmaster of their craft, completely above reproach as an ART GOD!

Oh wait, that's not even enough time to complete a degree.

Tit.

Snowolf · Qualificator Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

I don't care for sex....unlike you,I didn't read your comments,but thanks for coming anyway. You've been laughable!

I'm sorry you can't get any *comfort*

No really... I am..

...not.. xD

Snowolf · Qualificator Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

Although I cannot truly speak for anyone other than myself, I have never known anybody who was aroused by a picture of a wolf, much less one who expressed arousal.

I'll take it you've not seen his pictures or the tons of people who comment on them that get aroused by them, but then, you must not know a lot of people, or perhaps it's just your hate that doesn't let those around you who might like them or things like them, keep from admiting it :b

If you have anyone around you..

Snowolf · Qualificator Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

Again, he's been doing this for over three years :b

You're shitting me, right?

Three WHOLE years?

I mean, someone who's been doing something for three years must be a grandmaster of their craft, completely above reproach as an ART GOD!

Oh wait, that's not even enough time to complete a degree.

Tit.

Hmm, no, saying that 3 years is more than enough time to get to the level he is at with his artwork. :b

You must not be an artist or you'd understand how much you can improve in one year, let alone three. *pats* It's alright, I won't hold it against you.

Kadius · Venter Joined: 10 Feb 2004 Posts: 254

Merry Christmas Snowolf. Hope it helps.

Ebonlupus · Qualificator Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 30

Here's to EbonLupus- may a wolf bite his testicles off and his disgusting fetishes be exposed on the six o'clock news.

Apparently a Wolf has already bitten off your testicles, sir, as you lack the balls to tell it to my face.

Kadius · Venter Joined: 10 Feb 2004 Posts: 254

Here's to EbonLupus- may a wolf bite his testicles off and his disgusting fetishes be exposed on the six o'clock news.

Apparently a Wolf has already bitten off your testicles, sir, as you lack the balls to tell it to my face.

I like how you addressed just that one thing and said nothing to defend yourself.

You sir, get a gold star.

Quatrewolf · Qualificator Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 39

I don't care for sex....unlike you,I didn't read your comments,but thanks for coming anyway. You've been laughable!

I'm sorry you can't get any *comfort*

No really... I am..

...not.. xD

BAA BAA BAAAAAAA!!

You know what?! You REALLY don't know me,domestic dog!

If you did then you know I have no care for sex..at all. Like you do.

"Oh wah wah! I can't get laid like a human female should,oh I cry so many rainbows of angst!" :roll:

:twisted: Bullshit! If you can't sniff people though 'teh intarweb',then you and Ebonmutt sure as hell can't call anybody human-like more than you both have an overactive sexdrive willst I don't..and pretty much don't need it to live.

Now be a good sheep....GET OVER IT!

Your wasting my time and the few seconds of my life bringing this shit back up when your 'cowardly sheep to Ebon's hoilness' self could of went gun-ho on me in June in his Deviantart site instead of here. Now if you did THAT in the first place I would rethink what I did to "DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT I HATE MOST HUMANS EVEN WHEN I WANT THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE DEAD",I would say sorry. But since you waited for a whole damn month and come and defend when nobody gives a fuck anymore,< roleplay>I turn my online tail around at you and pee on your disgraceful mongrel face.< / roleplay >

Then I shall :roll: at you and go back to writing my modern coyote trickster tales and drink tea.

Grow up and get over it....and have a nice fanbrat life. 8)

Ebonlupus · Qualificator Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 30

I like how you addressed just that one thing and said nothing to defend yourself.

It's nearly amusing to think that insecure, envious, untalented creatures, such as those present, should start a forum for the express purpose of spreading hate and lies about others. To be logical with the likes of those present would be nothing less than casting pearls before swine.

Quatrewolf · Qualificator Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 39

I like how you addressed just that one thing and said nothing to defend yourself.

It's nearly amusing to think that insecure, envious, untalented creatures, such as those present, should start a forum for the express purpose of spreading hate and lies about others. To be logical with the likes of those present would be nothing less than casting pearls before swine.

Okay,Ebon...

You wanna talk,here's your chance.

I won't call names and you will atleast listen...look,I don't care if you and your dog get along well or hate most humans.

I just want to ask some non-hateful questions,do you want to do that?

Or are just going to sling names like a human child would do?

*Sits stern and waits with tail on the ground*

Ebonlupus · Qualificator Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 30

BTW, I just happened to find this picture I decided to photo-manipulate. I hope you enjoy it.

http://art.tailhole.org/gallery/wolves/dogs/on_your_back_looking_up_scr.sized.jpg

Ebonlupus · Qualificator Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 30

I just want to ask some non-hateful questions,do you want to do that?

Or are just going to sling names like a human child would do?

I'm always open to calm discussion. What I give back is what I get. Let's see how long you can go without posting an ad hominem comment.

The New Meat · Vociferator Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 403

BTW, I just happened to find this picture I decided to photo-manipulate. I hope you enjoy it.

http://art.tailhole.org/gallery/wolves/dogs/on_your_back_looking_up_scr.sized.jpg

HOT

On second thought, what? Why are there two sets of balls?

edit: Oh, I get it. It didn't load properly. It's one wolf ass fucking another. Yay.

Kadius · Venter Joined: 10 Feb 2004 Posts: 254

It's nearly amusing to think that insecure, envious, untalented creatures, such as those present, should start a forum for the express purpose of spreading hate and lies about others. To be logical with the likes of those present would be nothing less than casting pearls before swine.

You think a bit too highly of yourself, bud.

You speak as if you know the lives of everyone in this forum. You do not. I am neither envious of you or insecure. For being untalented, I'm sure many of us are far better at some things than you are. As for lies being told, you are a liar if you deny that parts of that picture are photomanipulation.

And you, a dogfucker, consider yourself to be better than any of us? You amuse me Ebon. Truly. You try to sound sophisticated but end up proving your foolishness through your own hypocrisy. Spreading hate when you're chastising us for it.

Edit: Just what I wanted to see, a wolf fucking another wolf up the ass. Which one represents you Ebon?

Ebonlupus · Qualificator Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 30

And you, a dogfucker, consider yourself to be better than any of us?

Absolutely; I don't seek to attack anyone. I draw my art and write my poems and mind my own business. I share my ideas and feelings with those who have a like mind. I don't need to feel better than anyone by attending an "I'm better than you" forum to bash what I am unable to understand like you and other's here do, so therefore I must conclude that I am better already.

The New Meat · Vociferator Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 403

And you, a dogfucker, consider yourself to be better than any of us?

Absolutely; I don't seek to attack anyone. I draw my art and write my poems and mind my own business. I share my ideas and feelings with those who have a like mind. I don't need to feel better than anyone by attending an "I'm better than you" forum to bash what I am unable to understand like you and other's here do, so therefore I must conclude that I am better already.

I don't think we even really need to debate anything since the fact that you are pro dog fucking means that you are automatically wrong about everything. By the way, don't you also have a wolf spirit or something?

Quatrewolf · Qualificator Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 39

I just want to ask some non-hateful questions,do you want to do that?

Or are just going to sling names like a human child would do?

I'm always open to calm discussion. What I give back is what I get. Let's see how long you can go without posting an ad hominem comment.

Okay...Here goes:

At first I was trying to be your friend at DA by asking if there wasn't a day that you hated the whole human race?

Now I know you hate most,but it seems with that mood icon at that time that I asked you. There's some humans I dislike(because hate is a bad thing that gets people nowhere),but I don't condemn a whole species,like cockroaches.(beside cockroaches are numerous because of (my) our species tearing woodlands down).

Now,what I ask is why do you insult some who are trying to be friends with you when you said,"Now be a good human and don't tear down forests and such"?

I didn't yell at you or anything,I just said I don't have the want nor mentality to do such things. Plus,I happen to have alot of feral cats in my neighborhood who I check offen because of the flood my street had.

I could get pissed off by a human being.....but I can't get pisssed at an animal.

If your still listening,here's something:

A rottie had been loose in a nearby neighborhood,I decided to go over to him and try to pet him unaware that he COULD have killed me at that point,but he didn't. Matter of fact he was very playful..and big :shock: until his owners took him away.

Seeing I did that,I can never be mad at rottweilers,some are bad tempered...but I blame the owners. No dog is bad unless you mistreat it.

If I can do that?

Maybe you can not insult the friends(I was trying to..until you insulted me and I'm a big beliver of 'An eye for an eye') when they aren't the one who call you 'Dogfucker' or other bad names.

Kadius · Venter Joined: 10 Feb 2004 Posts: 254

I don't need to feel better than anyone by attending an "I'm better than you" forum to bash what I am unable to understand like you and other's here do, so therefore I must conclude that I am better already.

I understand completely, you're a sick, sad individual living in a fantasy world. You feel as if you're some sort of god because you have people of 'like mind' who worship you for your 'art'. At the end of the day, you're still a dirty, weak human being, just like the rest of us.

And no, you are not better. Though if you wish to delude yourself by thinking so, be my guest.

Ebonlupus · Qualificator Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 30

Quatrewolf,

"At first I was trying to be your friend at DA by asking if there wasn't a day that you hated the whole human race?"

I don't hate the whole human race. I hate people who abuse animals or defile the natural world. I hate people who kill for pleasure and don't give a fuck for anything but their own amusements and pleasures. I especially hate people who molest and kill Wolves.

"Now,what I ask is why do you insult some who are trying to be friends with you when you said,"Now be a good human and don't tear down forests and such"?"

Do you consider that an insult? I consider it sarcasm. I wont be responsible for what you want to read into things.

Maybe you can not insult the friends(I was trying to..until you insulted me and I'm a big beliver of 'An eye for an eye') when they aren't the one who call you 'Dogfucker' or other bad names.

I don't understand what you are saying here, really. I don't consider being called a Dogfucker an insult. It's a fact of life ;)

Quatrewolf · Qualificator Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 39

BTW, I just happened to find this picture I decided to photo-manipulate. I hope you enjoy it.

http://art.tailhole.org/gallery/wolves/dogs/on_your_back_looking_up_scr.sized.jpg

HOT

On second thought, what? Why are there two sets of balls?

edit: Oh, I get it. It didn't load properly. It's one wolf ass fucking another. Yay.

Hate to sound nitpicky,but that's the 'dog with the penis dripping"'s knot.
My first dog had one..

How I know this? I don't know...my dog use to hump alot of things before being nutured. :?

Kadius · Venter Joined: 10 Feb 2004 Posts: 254

I hate people who abuse animals or defile the natural world. <...> I especially hate people who molest and kill Wolves. <...>I don't understand what you are saying here, really. I don't consider being called a Dogfucker an insult. It's a fact of life ;)

Do I need to say something here?

Quatrewolf · Qualificator Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 39

Quatrewolf,

"I don't hate the whole human race. I hate people who abuse animals or defile the natural world. I hate people who kill for pleasure and don't give a fuck for anything but their own amusements and pleasures. I especially hate people who molest and kill Wolves."

QW:I'm on the same boat...unless it's for food.(You don't wanna go to the taxidermy auction that I used to work next to. Shamey!) But we got sheep and cows for that. People forget that...and how about insects,good protein! There everywhere!:)

"Do you consider that an insult? I consider it sarcasm. I wont be responsible for what you want to read into things."

QW:But after I have said that I wouldn't and could not do that,you replied to me saying that it was 'endless monkey blabble'.

No offense,but that led to believe that it was an insult....and that you ignored me. I grew up around alot of people who did that and it offen doesn't lead to anything kind or nice.

"I don't understand what you are saying here, really. I don't consider being called a Dogfucker an insult. It's a fact of life ;)"

I meant in a mean and hateful way..I have talked to two people last year who didn't like the word harshly.

m_estrugo · Prattler Joined: 13 Nov 2003 Posts: 189

And you, a dogfucker, consider yourself to be better than any of us?

Absolutely; I don't seek to attack anyone. I draw my art and write my poems and mind my own business. I share my ideas and feelings with those who have a like mind. I don't need to feel better than anyone by attending an "I'm better than you" forum to bash what I am unable to understand like you and other's here do, so therefore I must conclude that I am better already.

I doubt you don't seek to attack anyone. The picture you have just uploaded to this thread can be considered as a direct attack, especially after those posting here have shown their discomfort with the theme the picture displays. This is, to say the least, a provocation, and in the worst of the cases, a direct incitation to fight.
I also doubt that, as you say, you 'mind your own business'. If you did, you would be doing exactly that at this moment instead of putting that kind of pictures on this forum. Unfortunately for your cause, and in the event you haven't realized already, this isn't a forum crowded by people with a like mind.
On the other hand, I do perfectly understand what zoophilia is: I consider it as a mental illness rather than a mere hobby, afition or lifestyle, especially when the affected person is unable to find sexual arousal any other way. Even despite how frustrating is being like you are, you refuse to seek for help simply because you are too comfortable with your current state.

Allow me to repeat that. In my opinion, and despite your claims, you've got a rather frustrating life. Let's face it, we are all humans and as such we need to have social interaction up to certain degree. A human being can express emotions much better than simpler animals like canids, and we are -hardwired- to expect such sophisticated emotions from a sexual partner. In your case, animals are a mere substitute for something that you feel the urge to have, a mate. Let's go back to the theme and we'll find that your only cause is to dismiss the whole humanity by whatever the reason, as I'm sure there's something deeper than the abuse some people give to animals. I'd dare to say that you have felt rejected and misunderstood and as such have decided to go against logic and declare the war to the whole mankind, thus including yourself on your hate.

No matter how you try to ornate with pretty words: the truth is that you've fallen in a spiral of self-destruction, privated of basic human needs like tenderness or affection, but are too stubborn to even accept it even if you may have the hint that something isn't going right. You try to convince yourself that, after all, you're beyond human beings, when the sad truth is that you are just another one of us, as pityful and miserable as any other person you seem to detest so much.

The New Meat · Vociferator Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 403

On second thought, what? Why are there two sets of balls?

edit: Oh, I get it. It didn't load properly. It's one wolf ass fucking another. Yay.

Hate to sound nitpicky,but that's the 'dog with the penis dripping"'s knot.
My first dog had one..

How I know this? I don't know...my dog use to hump alot of things before being nutured. :?

Oh. Okay. In any case, this still sucks.

DA · Vociferator Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 355

I like how you addressed just that one thing and said nothing to defend yourself.

It's nearly amusing to think that insecure, envious, untalented creatures, such as those present, should start a forum for the express purpose of spreading hate and lies about others. To be logical with the likes of those present would be nothing less than casting pearls before swine.

Excuse me while I laugh, envious? insecure? Pray tell person who knows everything about me evidently why on earth I would be envious of you when I can paint easily to the same level as you when I can be bothered, as for anything else I don't know do you have anything I could be envious of?

Insecure? me? On another planet maybe, you know I love how anyone who says 'I don't agree with Ebon' is automatically insecure, it's probably your own insecurity speaking.

Interesting factoid: Humans make decisions then rationalise it, hence why hypnotised people will bend logic in pretzels to explain their reasons for the oddball actions the hypnotist makes them do. So you can justify anything if you can bend logic far enough including beastiality, don't you ever stop and question your logic? I mean if you die and find out oh no you were deluded and wrong all along you might be a bit embarassed no?

And you still haven't answered why those two pictures are so close, at the very least it's heavily referenced for which an ethical artist would have obtained permission and given credit where credit was due. I still think it's a cheap ass paintover though.

Kadius · Venter Joined: 10 Feb 2004 Posts: 254

HEY GUYS. DID I DO A GOOD JOB?

Ebonlupus · Qualificator Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 30

I doubt you don't seek to attack anyone. The picture you have just uploaded to this thread can be considered as a direct attack, especially after those posting here have shown their discomfort with the theme the picture displays. This is, to say the least, a provocation, and in the worst of the cases, a direct incitation to fight.

I also doubt that, as you say, you 'mind your own business'. If you did, you would be doing exactly that at this moment instead of putting that kind of pictures on this forum. Unfortunately for your cause, and in the event you haven't realized already, this isn't a forum crowded by people with a like mind.

By attacking me and my art on this forum, those here drew first blood and thus invited my response. You people provoked the fight.

On the other hand, I do perfectly understand what zoophilia is: I consider it as a mental illness rather than a mere hobby, afition or lifestyle, especially when the affected person is unable to find sexual arousal any other way. Even despite how frustrating is being like you are, you refuse to seek for help simply because you are too comfortable with your current state.

You have an opinion about what zoophillia is... but you are nonetheless a clueless fuckwit.

Allow me to repeat that. In my opinion, and despite your claims, you've got a rather frustrating life. Let's face it, we are all humans and as such we need to have social interaction up to certain degree. A human being can express emotions much better than simpler animals like canids, and we are -hardwired- to expect such sophisticated emotions from a sexual partner. In your case, animals are a mere substitute for something that you feel the urge to have, a mate. Let's go back to the theme and we'll find that your only cause is to dismiss the whole humanity by whatever the reason, as I'm sure there's something deeper than the abuse some people give to animals. I'd dare to say that you have felt rejected and misunderstood and as such have decided to go against logic and declare the war to the whole mankind, thus including yourself on your hate.

As I woofed, you're a clueless fuckwit.

No matter how you try to ornate with pretty words: the truth is that you've fallen in a spiral of self-destruction, privated of basic human needs like tenderness or affection, but are too stubborn to even accept it even if you may have the hint that something isn't going right. You try to convince yourself that, after all, you're beyond human beings, when the sad truth is that you are just another one of us, as pityful and miserable as any other person you seem to detest so much.

LOL

Ebonlupus · Qualificator Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 30

And you still haven't answered why those two pictures are so close, at the very least it's heavily referenced for which an ethical artist would have obtained permission and given credit where credit was due. I still think it's a cheap ass paintover though.

Yes, I did indeed use that image as a reference. Generally when one uses a reference photo, one is attempting to mimic it. That pup was standing exactly as I wanted the pup to stand in the image I was arranging... worked out very nicely.

Any ethical person wouldn't be putting someone down behind their back on a petty gripe forum without confronting them face to face... so... point a finger and have three pointing back at yourself.

Shmeckopolis · Prattler Joined: 31 Mar 2004 Posts: 140

Damn, Estrugo just handed a psychological beatdown!

Buy that man a beer!

Donotsue · Venter Joined: 17 Jan 2004 Posts: 209

Caz · Recusant Joined: 16 Apr 2004 Posts: 9

You openly admit to humping animals. Draw pictures and post them publically then get in a huff over someone ridiculing you for it or even commenting?

Its one of the primary things I can't stand about the fandom is when they post the images of six titted hermie lactating behemoth beanbag ferret wizards and wonder why folks make fun of them. Or dog fucking, pick your poison.

Shmeckopolis · Prattler Joined: 31 Mar 2004 Posts: 140

Donotsue, you have effectively re-ruined my appetite. And I was just recovering from Sir Dogshtupperous' ever-disgusting doggie love pic....

...Fitting satire, though....

mouse · Vociferator Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 740

<...> I'd dare to say that you have felt rejected and misunderstood and as such have decided to go against logic and declare the war to the whole mankind, thus including yourself on your hate.

As I woofed, you're a clueless fuckwit.

As you woofed?

You're the only clueless fuckwit here, far as Im concerned.

Hey dude, do you actually fuck dogs? cuz thats what I heard. I'd like to hear it direct from you though.

PS your "art" blows.

DA · Vociferator Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 355

And you still haven't answered why those two pictures are so close, at the very least it's heavily referenced for which an ethical artist would have obtained permission and given credit where credit was due. I still think it's a cheap ass paintover though.

Yes, I did indeed use that image as a reference. Generally when one uses a reference photo, one is attempting to mimic it. That pup was standing exactly as I wanted the pup to stand in the image I was arranging... worked out very nicely.

Any ethical person wouldn't be putting someone down behind their back on a petty gripe forum without confronting them face to face... so... point a finger and have three pointing back at yourself.

Already done so, heard enough of your convoluted logic the first time, don't really need a crawful of your nonsense a second time around.

I just enquired for more information, got a comment back that it was wrong without proof so showed what I had and asked the person to prove it wrong, I haven't really put you down, you'd know if I did that.

And I've yet to see any damn proof that isn't a paintover and quite frankly I think it damn well is, I'm even being nice enough to doubt it's a manip considering I've noticed several of your 'artworks' have seriously wonked anatomy where it looks like you've copied a picture then tried to change a piece to match you vision rather incompetently.

Referencing generally is using a picture to extrapolate your own interpretation, if you're just gonna copy get a xerox machine.

Paul · Venter Joined: 01 Feb 2004 Posts: 215

It's nearly amusing to think that insecure, envious, untalented creatures, such as those present, should start a forum for the express purpose of spreading hate and lies about others. To be logical with the likes of those present would be nothing less than casting pearls before swine.

Let's see how long you can go without posting an ad hominem comment.

Uh-huh...

As I woofed

QUOTED FOR EMPHASIS

Hey dude, do you actually fuck dogs? cuz thats what I heard. I'd like to hear it direct from you though.

I don't consider being called a Dogfucker an insult. It's a fact of life ;)

I think he's admitting to it right there, mouse.

As for the two wolf cubs, maybe, just maybe, it isn't a paintover/photo manipulation. Some people do have the skill to draw an exact replica of a photo they've looked at. That's photographic memory. But I wouldn't count on it, because some parts of Ebon Lupus' pictures are photorealistic, while other parts aren't. That suggests a collage. Also, while the ability to copy a picture without paintover/photo manipulation is indeed impressive, so what? It's still a direct copy. And I fail to see the point of doing it that way when you can get the exact same result with seven minutes of work in PhotoShop.

And DA is right of course, referencing does not mean copying something right down to every minuscule detail.

PS: This is the funniest thread ever!

SLaitila · Prattler Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 165

If there ever was a rock album which would represent the imagery of this thread:

m_estrugo · Prattler Joined: 13 Nov 2003 Posts: 189

I'm always open to calm discussion. What I give back is what I get. Let's see how long you can go without posting an ad hominem comment.

You have an opinion about what zoophillia is... but you are nonetheless a clueless fuckwit.

Those two statements contradict each other.

Besides, rather than an opinion about zoophilia, I've just applied the current psychological approach to your case. Zoophilia is considered as a paraphilia, a case of sexual disfunction. Even if you refuse to consider it, you are a person in need for psychological help.

"The Paraphilias are characterized by recurrent, intense sexual urges, fantasies, or behaviors that involve unusual objects, activities, or situations and cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning."

In other words, a fetish so intense that alters the person psyche.

For the modern psychology, zoophilia is at the same level than exhibitionism, fetishism, frotteurism, pedophilia, masochism and sadism, transvestic fetishism, voyeurism, telephone scatologia, necrophilia, partialism, coprophilia, urophilia, and klismaphilia. In other words, according with psychology, your position is exactly as (little) defendable as those from a kid raptist, a telephone harraser or a tomb prophanator.

The reply to the message I wrote to you says it all. You can't counter my affirmations with a rationalized, coherent message, instead, you try to insult me by calling me "a clueless fuckwit". That's because there is no rationale behind your position, no real reasoning, just an assembly of notions you repeat to yourself to convince you're right, as an attempt to justify yourself and your acts.

You still have to bring a simple proof to demonstrate that your ideas of superiority and your whole position about this issue aren't caused by a psychological condition.

m_estrugo · Prattler Joined: 13 Nov 2003 Posts: 189

Ack. Double post. Apologies for being redundant.

Charisma · Prattler Joined: 03 Jan 2004 Posts: 163

I remember going over to EbonLupus' message board when i first came across him to question his beliefs and sexuality. I told him I was quite disturbed by his art and had decided to ask him face to face what his exact motives were behind his pictures.

Although I have absolutely no problem with his admiration of wolves and the fact he believes humans and animal should live in harmony, as you probably know by now, I see it as morally wrong for a human to have sex with animals. No matter how it is performed I believe sex with animals is as immoral as sex with children. Animals cannot consent. a 14 year old girl may seem as if she likes having sex with a 55 year old man, but it does NOT make it right, let alone legal. The same goes for animals in my opinion.

I don't care about how 'graphic' EbonLupus' art can be, what everyone cares about here is the MOTIVE behind the art. Surely you can understan that Ebon? Surely you an understand how sick that makes most people feel? Can you see why? It is not because we are deluded or 'fuckwits'. We are concerned about animals just as you think you are.

ZenZhu · Vociferator Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 669

Well, I had this big post prepared yesterday, but then my connection munched it. Wow.. 3 pages.. a lot has happened since we last saw our heroes heading for the canyon in a runaway stagecoach.

Since things have turned a bit, I'll clip and snip to what is relevant to a few things that have cropped up.

And what would YOU do to save animals? You seem fond of them, at least by how you're wording things.. but what have or are you doing to help anyone or anything? o.O

I worked summer jobs at animal shelters as a teen. I now work 50-70 hours a week as an environmental consultant helping people, businesses, and industries regulate their activities, develop more responsible operating methods, recycle what they can, and remediate environmental impacts like hazardous waste spills. On top of that, a fair portion of my charity dollars used to go to the Sawtooth pack before I shifted my charity focus to animal shelters. I generally take my own bags to the grocery store to reuse (or just don't use a bag if it's 1 or 2 items), or, at the very least, save all of them and take them to be recycled, along with papers, magazines, etc., when there's enough of them to merit a trip.

How about you, big guy?

I think that protesting is the best way to go about most anything

Protesting is a mixed bag. You get some visibility, but, if you go to extremes, you turn more people away from your cause than to it.

And what's this about wanting to go shoot animals simply because an artist draws them anatomically correct?

Bzzzt.. try again. I implied that bleeding heart drivel and armchair environmentalism makes me want to line one up in the crosshairs just to be contrary. It has nothing to do with doggie dicks and everything to do with wanting to see do-nothing furry idealists get a few more doses of reality in the hopes that it will inspire them to do something more productive to the situation than simply pretending they're not a part of the human race.

Have you ever looked closely at a wolf? Do you know what one looks like beyond simply saying "It looks like a big dog"? His art rarely is ment to draw support, it's ment to depict something he see's or feels

I was an art major before becoming an environmental hydrogeologist. Before I decided an art career wouldn't meet my goals in life, I was aspiring to be a wildlife artist. I've drawn almost every animal there is out there. Wolves used to be one of my favorite animals. I've done numerous watercolors of them.

just like all artwork. Poetry, Paintings, Drawings, Music.. all are made to express things, and are not often made for anyone but their creator(s).

Exactly. It's all fine and dandy to howl at the moon and write painting and poetry about the plight of wolves. But, if you're just doing it for yourself, rather than even doing so much as doing artwork for animal rights campaigns, then you're not doing much of anything, anyway. I could rally "Free Tibet!" all over an insignificant little webpage.. write poetry.. do artwork for those ideals.. but, if I'm just doing it for myself, all I've done is make myself feel good.

Now taking from what's transpired since yesterday...

I hate people who abuse animals or defile the natural world. <...> I especially hate people who molest and kill Wolves. <...>I don't understand what you are saying here, really. I don't consider being called a Dogfucker an insult. It's a fact of life ;)

Do I need to say something here?

You can rest assured, you don't, Kadius. It speaks volumes on its own.

No matter how you try to ornate with pretty words: the truth is that you've fallen in a spiral of self-destruction, privated of basic human needs like tenderness or affection, but are too stubborn to even accept it even if you may have the hint that something isn't going right. You try to convince yourself that, after all, you're beyond human beings, when the sad truth is that you are just another one of us, as pityful and miserable as any other person you seem to detest so much.

The funny thing is, while I don't know much about Ebon, himself, I see much of the path I was on in my furrier days with him. While I didn't sexually assault animals, notions of being something more/less than human crept in from time to time. I was developing a respectable dislike for the human race, based on frustration over what Mankind has done and continues to do to the planet. I never denied I was human, but like many furries we've seen, I wasn't thrilled with it. In retrospect, I came to see how a lot of that was an extension of the natural frustrations people experience as teenagers and young adults. I eventually came to realize that being human is the best thing possible, since we are best capable of putting an end to the mistakes we make regarding the environment. Being human isn't a liability, it's an empowering asset for those wanting to take on the task of helping to guide the rest of humanity towards a more responsible approach to interacting with the envrionment.

So, I understand some of where folks like Ebon come from more than they might realize.

Regarding bestiality, it's obviously a nonproductive area of discussion. Ebon is not going to be able to convince us that it is an "enlightend" approach to interacting with animals. We are not going to convince him of our assessment that it as animal abuse.

For the record, my own outlook is that is abuse based primarily on the notion that we cannot, at present, effectively understand and communicate with animals. While a dog may mount you if you drop your trousers, a dog will also mount a teddy bear. It's just doing what feels good. As I stated in another thread, this gets into a gray area, since the animal is achieving gratification from it. When a human, however, mounts an animal, I consider it a violation of the trust that has been built up between man and animal over the centuries. If the animal is too small, it can also lead to physical injury.

If we're going to suggest that animals can, in fact, demonstrate consent to humans for sexual activity, we have to also assume that animals have the capacity for mental and emotional trauma stemming from the sex act in the same way that a child might be coerced into having sex with an adult, and suffer mental and emotional trauma after-the-fact as they lack the ability to fully rationalize what happened. Therefore, it cannot be assumed that because an animal may "present themselves" to a human, that any sexual interaction with a human does not create mental and/or emotional scars afterwards.

Hell, even adult humans can consent to sex and then have negative reprocussions/thoughts/feelings afterwards that lead to mental and emotional anguish.

Therefore, my opposition to human/animal sexual interaction is based primarily on 1)humans using animals for their own gratification* and 2)we cannot, at present, understand animal communication clearly enough to assume a dog wants our dick in it's ass. Someday in the future, when we have decoded the mysteries of an animal's communication patterns and have a handy little Star Trek translator that allows a sheep to say "Oh, baby, I want your cock so ba-a-a-a-a-ad." without any ambiguity.. then, hey... go for it. The sheep wants it.. you want it.. party on Wayne, party on Garth.

*The aforementioned gray area crops up when stimulating an animal to collect specimens for selective breeding and such. Any time one human uses another creature.. human or animal... for selfish gratification of their own desires without regard for the needs or comprehension of the level of consent, it could constitute abuse.. from the fellows in Arkansas that used dish soap to lube up a german shepard and ruptured it's vagina to a CEO bending his secretary over the copier in exchange for a raise.

Anyway, that's my take on it. I'm not here to debate it, as none of us are likely to be swayed one way or another. But, there it is for the record. Like Charisma said, our opposition to animal molestation is not because we are "unenlightened fuckwits," but because we care very much about animals and, in our view, sexual molestation of animals is a form of abuse. If we didn't care about them, we wouldn't care if you fucked them, gutted them, and used their entrails for a mardi gras necklace.

So, now that we have the grand poobah of the Wolf Tribe, himself, here, there are two things I would like to see coherently and sufficiently addressed.

1) There is obviously much debate on how your artwork is created. While just about anyone can rapidly achieve a decent level of competence with digital painting, your artwork is contested as a photomanipulation, which you deny, stating that, in the cited example of the image of the wolf cub, the photo was used as a reference.

Now, even wildlife art greats like Robert Bateman use photographic references. They go to zoos, our out into the wild, and photograph the animals there. In some cases, they may mimic something they photograph heavily. After all, artists depicting humans, such as Boris Vallejo, will have models pose for them. Photographing animals obviously proves more beneficial in wildlife art, since you can't ask a bear to sit still for an hour........... except maybe in the dead of winter, assuming you're painting a sleeping bear. :D They will also used published images for reference, but they will not copy those images "verbatim," as it is artistic plagarism.

Of course, there is nothing wrong with photomanipulation. Just look at those stupid greeting cards of the dogs and cats with stretched heads and googly eyes. Obviously those are photomanipulations, and accepted as commercial art. But, it can be contentious if one insists that a photomanipulation is an original work. It's like if I bought a Sara Lee cheesecake, put a few icing flowers on it, and served it to guests. Nothing wrong with that. But, if I insisted I baked the whole thing myself, rather than merely decorated it, that becomes contentious.

I believe the contention surrounding your art in light of the comparitive images of the cubs comes from the fact that the two are practically carbon copies, barring the coloring. The pose, the shading, and even the outline if superimposed are practically identical. Coming from an art background, I can attest that three years is not a sufficient amount of time to attain a level of mastery that would allow one to reproduce such an image so flawlessly, even with the ease of digital imagery. I can only assume you've been at it longer than the three years Snowolf has been familiar with your work.

So, it might quiet the masses to some degree if you can address what steps in your creative process might account for such precise replication of the image. If the shading were a bit different, or the position of the paws was not so spot-on that you could match them up by superimposing the images, many of us might find it easier to believe that this is not a photomanipulation.

If you would, please, give us a brief description of your creative process, from the sketching/conceptualizing phase (even if sketched through digital tablet) through fleshing it out and coloring it, and reference how the reference images factor in. Do you sketch over them and rough out key areas like the shading in the fur layers? Do you actually paint over them with a transparency layer or something? There's nothing wrong with doing that... it just means that the image is not a completely original work, but is more of a digitally enhanced collage. Collage is a perfectly viable form of art.

So, if you could elaborate?

2)Admittedly, my impression of your expressive side is biased by my experiences with other artists and furries who hold high ideals, but do little more than create art and poetry for their own purposes. I knew many artists in my early college days who painted a lot of fine paintings speaking out against polluting the environment, but would recoil at the very notion of actually going out along a highway and picking up trash. It's all well and good to express high ideals in one's artwork and literature... but it falls short if one is not willing to actually apply those ideals in a working sense to the real world. It's dandy to put poems in a LiveJournal and feel superior as one sits in a corner of their room, weeping for the fate of the world (not to suggest you do this... just speaking in a generalized sense). But, if that is all one does, it amounts to nothing.

On the other hand, if one applies one's artistic skills to, say, produce pamphlets for Earth Day, or for community recycling drives, that is a more productive extension of their talents and ideals. Use one's literary skills to organize community newsletters for tree-planting events and such. These are creative outlets that achieve much more real good than simply amassing a collection of idealistic images on a small corner of the web that only select individuals stumble across.... which falls equally short if the page only appeals to like-minded individuals, rather than planting the seeds of ideas in the minds of those not so like-minded.

So, while it is unfair, I must admit my assessment of your work as being idealistic and little else is based on experiences with similar individuals. If you could, perhaps you might share with us what you do to contribute to your causes of environmental and wildlife preservation that actually can amount to tangible results in the real world. How about in your home life? How many bags of trash to you throw out a week, compared to us hy00mans? One family profiled on The Discovery Channel generates only 2-5 bags a year, recycling everything from milk cartons to bathwater. Now there's someone who lives up to their ideals and proves humans have the potential to minimize our impact on the envrionment.

While I may never share your views on the appropriateness of intimate interaction between humans and animals, speaking for myself, I would afford you a bit more credibility if I knew your art and literature amounted to something more than actionless idealism..... not that I figure gaining my credibility is anywhere on your list of priorities. :)

Also, while we're on the subject, if your art is designed to enlighten viewers about the plight of wolves and dispell the myths about them, don't you think that your more "mature" works might not be the best PR move? Regardless of your own opinion of how "enlightened" intimate relations with animals might be, you have to realize the public at large is not going to share those opinions, and is going to be turned away by the depiction of homoerotic nonanthro wolf images. If you offer them an art piece speaking out against the inhumane practice of aerial hunting in one hand, and a dripping wolf phallus in the other...... doesn't that strike you as kind of a bad PR move for your original message of wolf preservation? Don't you think maybe your personal tastes and agendas might hurt the public credibility of your ideals communicated through your protest art? Let's face it.... for the public at large that might come to your page looking up info on wolves... the protest art depicts you as compassionate, the zoo art protrays you, in the public eye, as a loon. Offering the two together may actually be doing more damage to your wishes for greater preservation efforts on the part of Mankind than good.

Ebonlupus · Qualificator Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 30

This is cute. Too bad the "fox" - looks more like a coyote to me - has a humanish penis. I could do without the ugly human butt too - humans are just about the ugliest things on earth; on every level - but then I guess that's just part of the humor. The flies are a nice touch as humans create a lot of trash and attract them. I'm not fond of bestiality (humans and non-humans together sexually) in art, but to each his/her own.

I have no other comments for this board... same old shit.

Vitae · Recusant Joined: 13 Apr 2004 Posts: 4

This thread is quite entertaining and informative.

Caz · Recusant Joined: 16 Apr 2004 Posts: 9

Agreed Vitae. This was quite informative.

And that "As I woofed" part was indeed funny.
I should come back here more often, some of these threads are fuggin sidesplitting riots. The insight into the fandom becomes several stages scarier with every new major posting.

Oh, and Ebonlupus, as unfortuante as it is for the rest of us, you're a Human Being dude. Not a wolf.

Kadius · Venter Joined: 10 Feb 2004 Posts: 254

This is cute. Too bad the "fox" - looks more like a coyote to me - has a humanish penis. I could do without the ugly human butt too - humans are just about the ugliest things on earth; on every level - but then I guess that's just part of the humor. The flies are a nice touch as humans create a lot of trash and attract them. I'm not fond of bestiality (humans and non-humans together sexually) in art, but to each his/her own.

I have no other comments for this board... same old shit.

Sssssh, sleeeeeeeeeeeep. You've been pwnd, there's no denying it. You haven't and aparently can't defend yourself against most of these accusations. Get your shit straight, you came here looking to pick a fight; and you got one didn't you? I'm tired of you contradicting yourself. You say you're against bestiality and openly declare you do such things. Do you not consider yourself human? Aparently not, which makes you even sadder than I had once believed. Now why don't you go back to living in your messed up, self centered little fantasy world and shut the fuck up?

Cry.

Ebonlupus · Qualificator Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 30

ZenZhu,

I was going to exit, but you posted a respectable comment so I'll address it.

I generally use photos as reference, mostly to get perspective and form correct. After that I add as many details from the reference as I like. I created plane evil by request for some Wolf activists and it was used in a vigil in Alaska to protest aerial Wolf hunting.

I had never drawn Wolf puppies before so I was very uncertain of how they should look. When this happens I tend to put as much detail from the reference as I can into a drawing to compensate for my lack of practice.

I took oil painting courses in collage so I tend to use a method of starting with general forms and adding details until it's satisfactory to me. I'm a perfectionist for the most part, and I try to make every drawing a little better than the last. I like photorealism, I want my Wolves to look real, and if you look at my older stuff you will see how far I've progressed in this over the years.

There are a few examples of how I lay out and detail drawings on DeviantArt. I put them there because others have been curious about how I draw fur. I would post links to them, but currently DeviantArt is down for maintenance... as usual... but they may be found in my "scraps" gallery if you are sincerely interested: http://ebonlupus.deviantart.com/scraps/

---

As for bestiality, I know it is a sensitive topic for a lot of people. This doesn't bother me. What would bother me more is complete indifference to the possibility that animals are being sexually abused; and I think they are in the bestiality porn that is running rampant online. Something that does bother me are people who assume things about me... deriving imagination-based opinions that focus on religious dogma of which I do not subscribe - like if I don't live exactly as they do I'm evil... and then being judgmental, prejudicing me, telling lies about me, spreading imagined claims as though they are empirical facts, and then stalking me on the internet and trying to discredit me behind my back. If this wouldn't piss you off, then what would?

I subscribe to mutually loving relationships between humans and non-humans; be it sexual or not. I do not subscribe to rape, pedophilia, or necrophilia. I do not abuse animals as those who know me personally can attest. I have been investigated twice due to complaints, and neither a police interview/inspection nor a veterinarian review of my very happy - extremely healthy - canine companion revealed any indication of abuse. Claims that I abuse animals are therefore totally contrived by people's imagined opinion about who I am and what I do. Their fears are a matter of emotionalism and jumping to conclusions.

---

If you don't like my art I suggest this one rule of thumb: I didn't create it for you; neither did I create it for the purpose of oppression or offending you. I created it for myself and the enjoyment of those who see Wolves as sensual, beautiful, sexual beings as I see them. There are actually a quite a few of us out here who see this way.

Ebonlupus · Qualificator Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 30

Kadius,

Your world is black and white, isn't it?

Kadius · Venter Joined: 10 Feb 2004 Posts: 254

Kadius,

Your world is black and white, isn't it?

Rarely, but there are many shades of grey.

Bleh... if only all your responses where well thought out and calm. Childish behavior begets childish behavior, hate leads to more hate...

But seriously, you need to quit screwing the animals. It's sick, immoral and illegal.

Ebonlupus · Qualificator Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 30

Kadius,

Your world is black and white, isn't it?

Rarely, but there are many shades of grey.

It might behoove your insight to see some of them.

ZenZhu · Vociferator Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 669

humans are just about the ugliest things on earth; on every level

Kadius · Venter Joined: 10 Feb 2004 Posts: 254

Kadius,

Your world is black and white, isn't it?

Rarely, but there are many shades of grey.

It might behoove your insight to see some of them.

There's a great differance between truth and percieved truths. Almost anything can be viewed as wrong/false if viewed from the right position. That is all I was saying.

Unfortunately for you, we are not of the 'like mind' as your cronies are.

Ebonlupus · Qualificator Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 30

ZenZhu,

I understand what you are attempting to show by giving the examples above. Please understand that I do not see human females the same as you do. When I look at them I see monkeys... so ashamed of their natural bodies they have to drape things around them... so insecure about their looks they must smear makeup around their eyes and powder their cheeks... so offended by their own scent they must wear perfume and artificial scents. To me human beings are ugly and artificial. I do not see people as you do... neither can you see Wolves as I do.

This difference in sight should not be a problem between us, unless we make it one.

Ebonlupus · Qualificator Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 30

Unfortunately for you, we are not of the 'like mind' as your cronies are.

It's not unfortunate for me... you mean nothing to me. I have noticed people see what they want to see... which is fine until it becomes a hate crime.

Shmeckopolis · Prattler Joined: 31 Mar 2004 Posts: 140

Men with very good aim.

And I'm sorry, but you'd HAVE to have a mental defect not to find this at all cute. But then again Estrugo pretty much pegged this guy. Almost scarily precise about it, too.

Honestly, You all need to give up, because this fella's too far gone. Crippling zoophilia and high self-righteouness can make quite a combo, as seen here, but damn if it ain't funny. The contradictions, the elementary school name-calling, it's all priceless. Comedy like this doesn't come that often, and makes me glad I come here.

ZenZhu · Vociferator Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 669

ZenZhu,

I was going to exit, but you posted a respectable comment so I'll address it.

I generally use photos as reference, mostly to get perspective and form correct. After that I add as many details from the reference as I like. I created plane evil by request for some Wolf activists and it was used in a vigil in Alaska to protest aerial Wolf hunting.

I had never drawn Wolf puppies before so I was very uncertain of how they should look. When this happens I tend to put as much detail from the reference as I can into a drawing to compensate for my lack of practice.

That I can definitely understand, especially when trying to deal with something that you don't have a lot of practice in. So, in this case, did you overlay the work over the digital photograph? As it stands, it does look very much like that... but not to say there's anything wrong with that.

What we might be looking at here is differing definitions of "photomanipulation." If you take an image, pass it through a few filters, and play with the hue and saturation and such, that is kind of stepping into using someone else's work as a fair bit more than just reference. Looking at the comparative images, what I'm assuming is that you took the image and digitally painted over it.. using the form as a guide... almost like how one might lay tracing paper over an image, break out the outline, form and shading, and then transfer that image to paper to continue the process. While such an approach borrows heavily from the original image, I think it constitutes a viable part of the artistic process, as opposed to using a collage of images, running it through some Photoshop filters, and calling it completely original.

I took oil painting courses in collage so I tend to use a method of starting with general forms and adding details until it's satisfactory to me. I'm a perfectionist for the most part, and I try to make every drawing a little better than the last. I like photorealism, I want my Wolves to look real, and if you look at my older stuff you will see how far I've progressed in this over the years.

I can see how these skills would transfer. Using blur brushes in a program would probably be most comparable to oil paints, as it mushes the color around a bit more than, say, acrylics or watercolor, where the paints blend very quickly.

As for bestiality, I know it is a sensitive topic for a lot of people. This doesn't bother me. What would bother me more is complete indifference to the possibility that animals are being sexually abused; and I think they are in the bestiality porn that is running rampant online. Something that does bother me are people who assume things about me... deriving imagination-based opinions that focus on religious dogma of which I do not subscribe - like if I don't live exactly as they do I'm evil

Some of the very reasons I turned from Christianity to Buddhism.

I subscribe to mutually loving relationships between humans and non-humans; be it sexual or not. I do not subscribe to rape, pedophilia, or necrophilia. I do not abuse animals as those who know me personally can attest. I have been investigated twice due to complaints, and neither a police interview/inspection nor a veterinarian review of my very happy - extremely healthy - canine companion revealed any indication of abuse. Claims that I abuse animals are therefore totally contrived by people's imagined opinion about who I am and what I do. Their fears are a matter of emotionalism and jumping to conclusions.

Hopefully by "fears" you are implying concerns about the animals. At least for those of us around here who have been abundantly exposed to zoophilia and such, it's not a case of xenophobia over someone's sexual practices.. it's concern over whether or not an animal is being abused.

I really don't want to go into your practices.... potential TMI, you know. All I can really say is that if a human forces themselves upon an animal for self-indulging gratification, then... yes.. I would count that as abuse and intolerable. But, as I said.. if it's a case where someone is letting the dog mount them... or masturbating while they stimulate the dog, horse, etc.... well...... it's kind of iffy, but I can't really say anyone or anything is being harmed. If you're brushing a horse and he gets a stiffie, and you play with it a bit... if the horse doesn't mind.... well, it's hard to say that the horse definitely wants Joe Rancher to wank him.. but.... given our present ability to communication with them, you can't assert any damage is being done, either. It's not too much different than enticing an equine into pumping into a sleeve to collect semen for selective breeding. So, I couldn't defend such actions.. but neither could I confidently denounce them, either.

If you don't like my art I suggest this one rule of thumb: I didn't create it for you; neither did I create it for the purpose of oppression or offending you. I created it for myself and the enjoyment of those who see Wolves as sensual, beautiful, sexual beings as I see them. There are actually a quite a few of us out here who see this way.

Coming from my own standpoint, it's not so much viewing animals as sexual that is off-putting, as the utter contempt displayed for humans. I hope you understand that asserting that humans are one of the ugliest creatures on earth isn't going to win you any support.

Obviously, certain animals are seen to exude a certain manifestation of human sexuality... such as horses and bulls being symbols of virility. Naturally, folks are going to be caught off-guard if someone asserts that they find wolves to be sexy... but, in this day and age.. not much may be thought about it.

If, on the other hand, one asserts that wolves are sexy, and humans are ugly in almost every way imaginable.... you've not only put forth an opinion that is a bit quirky, but followed it up with one that is likely to be insulting to your listener. With the exception of very like-minded individuals, asserting your contempt for the appearance and overall disposition of the human race is going to suggest to your audience that you hold them in contempt... and people aren't going to react well to or want to be around someone they feel holds them in contempt. Furthermore, such statements from a fellow human being are going to portray an element of self-loathing that is also going to turn people away.

Of course, you're welcome to your opinions. I'd concur that the human race could use a few good filters in the gene pool. But, I hope you understand how your views themselves can generate hostility, as well as your occasionally less-than-diplomatic assertion of them, as some of them are downright insulting, not only to your audience, but to yourself as well.

I understand what you are attempting to show by giving the examples above. Please understand that I do not see human females the same as you do. When I look at them I see monkeys... so ashamed of their natural bodies they have to drape things around them... so insecure about their looks they must smear makeup around their eyes and powder their cheeks... so offended by their own scent they must wear perfume and artificial scents. To me human beings are ugly and artificial. I do not see people as you do... neither can you see Wolves as I do.

Well, that's one way to look at it. Of course, clothing is not only for modesty, but protection from the elements as well, and adornment. Take tribes in Africa (I tried to find a native African woman to put up, but couldn't find one readily) who wear very little clothing, or the ones in.. hmm.. New Guinea(?) what do wear almost nothing... yet they still make necklaces and such for adornment. Some of American society has taken modesty to extremes.. and, yes, there are folks ashamed of their bodies. But, clothing can also be viewed as adornment (besides practical protection from sun, cold, ect.). Take your own wardrobe, for example? Do you wear a generic white t-shirt and jeans as the bare minimum to get by for the sake of conforming to societal taboos? Or, do you have shirts you like to wear because of the print on them? If clothing is simply a product of being ashamed of our bodies, why do you have clothing you like to wear? Wouldn't it make more sense to save money and just by whatever is cheapest and most effective at covering you? Why did you choose the shirts you wear, the pants, the shoes? Why would it matter if the shirt fits you, or is 3X too large... since both would cover you just as well?

As for perfume, people like things that smell good. Most people are not offended by our natural odors. Just look at comic book conventions..... or France. :D Hell, the slight musk of women is arousing to most men. Perfumes and colognes provide variety. Wearing deoderant doesn't say "I'm ashamed of my body and would never leave the house if I had to go all-natural." It says "in extremes, I can get a little stinky, and I'd rather not be stinky." With humans, strong odors can reflect unhealthy conditions.. which is one reason we're programmed by nature to have an aversion to them. As for perfume/cologne in general, however, you could say humans are actually mimicing the animal kingdom, rather than going 180 from it. Since we don't have the senses to detect pheromones from each other on a truly conscious scale, we utilize scents that generate certain responses to advertise as animals might through plumage, displays, scents, etc. Humans are a tool-using species, and perfume and cologne are tools. Makeup, likewise, can be seen as a kind of replication of breeding plumage... bright colors and patterns that say "Hey... look at me! Get to know me! Get into my pants!" Again... it's a tool... as we are tool-using creatures.

If you want to talk about artificiality, one could suggest that generating a sexual relationship between a human and an animal.. a "mateship" if you will, is an artificial construct. Two wolves mate for life. A wolf and a rabbit.. or a wolf and a hummingbird.. or a wolf and a bobcat... do not form lasting, loving relationships. Therefore, one could suggest that a loving, nurturing, and even sexual relationship between a man and an animal... bit it a cowboy and his trusty horse, a widow and her precious cats, or a fellow and his dog being on intimate terms... is an artifical construct.

You could look at it as humans being artificial... or humans being creative and inventive.

I'm not trying to start anything here... merely expressing an opinion... but, reading your appraisal there, one would almost interpret it as suggesting that you are more ashamed of human nature than most humans are. Your views on humanity may say more about you, and your relationship with yourself, than the state of human affairs in modern times.

Sometimes, how a situation is depends on how you choose to look at it. Take being stuck in traffic. One could look at it as a bother and a very irritating situation.. or one could look at it as a chance to look at the clouds passing overhead.. listening to some favorite tunes, etc. In many cases.... a situation remains the same. It simply depends on how you choose to look at it.... our perceptions can heavily influence our reality.

One can choose to see the bad in Man, or the good. One can dwell on Man's shortcomings, or try to realize Man's potential. One can see Man as an irreparable pox on the globe, or simply a part of a greater whole that, somewhere along the lines, lost its way. One can consider Man an errant child of Earth, forever separated from her breast.... or the prodigal son, which will someday return stronger, wiser, and more willing to be an active and responsible member of this global family. One can denounce Man's faults, or one can laud Man's assets. One can huddle in darkness, dwelling on the past, and casting a shadow on the present and future.. or one can look to the future, and help lead the way, helping his fellow human beings to live up to their potential greatness.. one day at a time.. one person at a time.... moment to moment.. even by simply being the best one can be, even when all alone.

Thank you for your responses, and helping us to understand a bit more about you.

Caz · Recusant Joined: 16 Apr 2004 Posts: 9

ZenZhu,

I understand what you are attempting to show by giving the examples above. Please understand that I do not see human females the same as you do. When I look at them I see monkeys... so ashamed of their natural bodies they have to drape things around them... so insecure about their looks they must smear makeup around their eyes and powder their cheeks... so offended by their own scent they must wear perfume and artificial scents. To me human beings are ugly and artificial. I do not see people as you do... neither can you see Wolves as I do.

Oh I'm sure many here CAN see wolves as you do, its just that they don't WANT to see wolves as you do. Its sick. Wolves are not sexual creatures, as you put it. And if one must accept that they ARE, then they are sexual to each other because they are part of the same species. They are not sexual for you or any other human being to take advantage of.

Donotsue · Venter Joined: 17 Jan 2004 Posts: 209

" I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species. I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You move to an area, and you multiply, and multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet, you are a plague, and wolves are the cure. "

Agent Lupus! =)

Ebonlupus · Qualificator Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 30

ZenZhu,

I understand what you are attempting to show by giving the examples above. Please understand that I do not see human females the same as you do. When I look at them I see monkeys... so ashamed of their natural bodies they have to drape things around them... so insecure about their looks they must smear makeup around their eyes and powder their cheeks... so offended by their own scent they must wear perfume and artificial scents. To me human beings are ugly and artificial. I do not see people as you do... neither can you see Wolves as I do.

Oh I'm sure many here CAN see wolves as you do, its just that they don't WANT to see wolves as you do. Its sick. Wolves are not sexual creatures, as you put it. And if one must accept that they ARE, then they are sexual to each other because they are part of the same species. They are not sexual for you or any other human being to take advantage of.

These are your OPINIONS, right? This is how YOU see the world, correct? This is YOUR point of view, am I right? Who are you to know things better than I? Yes... I'm sick... I'm a twisted, depraved, unusual fuck, and this delights me beyond words :)

Shmeckopolis · Prattler Joined: 31 Mar 2004 Posts: 140

And I think that humans = virus crap was pulled from one of the more convoluted animes...

Donotsue · Venter Joined: 17 Jan 2004 Posts: 209

Matrix... =)

I thougth quote'd fit.. since that's what Ebon seemsta think!

Shmeckopolis · Prattler Joined: 31 Mar 2004 Posts: 140

Ah yes. Though I still swear I heard it in an anime (it as in the humans = virus premise). One of the bad ones.

And yer right, it did fit pretty well.

Ebonlupus · Qualificator Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 30

Donotsue,

Unfortunately Wolves aren't the cure; they are a victim. They will be dead long before humanity destroys the earth and then themselves via environmental collapse. Humanity will turn everything gray... the water... the air... the soil... all beauty and love will be leached away and replaced by mindless amusements for a multitude that cares only for escape from the hell it's made for itself. A symptom of thinking they know it all... clueless of where the dominoes will fall.

ZenZhu · Vociferator Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 669

These are your OPINIONS, right? This is how YOU see the world, correct? This is YOUR point of view, am I right? Who are you to know things better than I? Yes... I'm sick... I'm a twisted, depraved, unusual fuck, and this delights me beyond words :)

Hopefully, you are cognizant that your opinions you stated about humans... ashamed, artificial monkeys... are just that.. your opinions. Not necessarily the truth of the human species... but simply your assessment.

I can't speak for anyone else here, but, really, I'm trying to get a sense of you, moreso than assault your ideas. I'm not trying to say "Well, your opinion is an opinion, too, hypocrite." I'm just trying to get a feel as to whether or not you understand that humans aren't necessarily a pox on the planet.... but that that is merely your opinion and appraisal of the human condition.

We're not perfect. We've made some pretty damn big mistakes. But we're learning. Personally, I think we can figure it out and turn things around before it's too late. We have a long way to go.. but if we're all willing to try...... and as we teach newer generations to be more responsible, we get that much closer.

Wolves are sexy... wolves aren't sexy. Humans are the bane of the planet. Humans are the hope of the planet.... it's all just opinion and perception.

Sometimes the difference between hope and despair is simply how you look at a situation. Since we're tossing out quotes here...

"There's always hope, if you're willing to look hard enough for it." - Vash the Stampede

The Outsider · Coadjutor Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Posts: 100

all beauty and love will be leached away and replaced by mindless amusements for a multitude that cares only for escape from the hell it's made for itself. A symptom of thinking they know it all... clueless of where the dominoes will fall.

Sounds like some elements of furdom rather than humanity.

The Outsider

Ebonlupus · Qualificator Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 30

Personally, I think we can figure it out and turn things around before it's too late. We have a long way to go.. but if we're all willing to try...... and as we teach newer generations to be more responsible, we get that much closer.

So when are we going to start? From what I have observed very few are "willing to try" and the ones making the $god$ call all the shots... and they don't care about the future of the earth... they care about their comforts here and now. We fight amongst ourselves at every turn and no one can agree where to go.

Another quote: "A house divided against itself cannot stand."

Ebonlupus · Qualificator Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 30

all beauty and love will be leached away and replaced by mindless amusements for a multitude that cares only for escape from the hell it's made for itself. A symptom of thinking they know it all... clueless of where the dominoes will fall.

Sounds like some elements of furdom rather than humanity.

Are you saying furdom isn't human? What is it then? I know I haven't a clue... furries, weres, zoos, and therians all blow my mind - what does it all mean? I think you are right about them being modes of escape... the symptom I was mentioning.

SLaitila · Prattler Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 165

So when are we going to start? From what I have observed very few are "willing to try" and the ones making the $god$ call all the shots... and they don't care about the future of the earth... they care about their comforts here and now. We fight amongst ourselves at every turn and no one can agree where to go.

You're going straight to hell buddy.

Ebonlupus · Qualificator Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 30

You're going straight to hell buddy.

Already there.

m_estrugo · Prattler Joined: 13 Nov 2003 Posts: 189

You're going straight to hell buddy.

Already there.

I told you. :)

ZenZhu · Vociferator Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 669

So when are we going to start? From what I have observed very few are "willing to try" and the ones making the $god$ call all the shots... and they don't care about the future of the earth... they care about their comforts here and now. We fight amongst ourselves at every turn and no one can agree where to go.

Another quote: "A house divided against itself cannot stand."

As I said, you can look at the positive, or dwell on the negative. Sure, you have to be mindful of the negative and learn from mistakes.... but if all you're going to do is cast aspersions, then nothing will be accomplished. It's easy enough to denounce Man's shortcomings, and feel smug, but, while you sit there, typing on the 'net with your computer..

which took natural resources to build...

which will contribute to a landfill when components are no longer useable...

which runs on electricty...

which probably comes from hydroelectric generators...

which are located in some area where they had to alter the natural water flow to create the back-pressure required to drive those generators...

where people work...

where they had to use cars to get to work...

which used gas...

which deplete natural resources...

which contributes to the buildup of pollutants in the air...

the air over the factory where your clothing was made...

where some animal's habitat was cleared out to build the factory...

where some group of Asians or Indians are being paid barely enough to survive on...

where one of their other family members built components for your air conditioner....

which discharges freon...

which depletes ozone...

etc.. etc... etc....

Sitting there.. feeling superior to "unenlightened" humans.. typing away in your home, on your computer, thinking about what to eat for dinner.. wearing the clothing you chose to wear to conform to our awful taboos.. generating waste and trash and consuming the products of your society.......... you are just as much a part of the problem as the fellow in the airplane setting his sights on some cubs' mother and pulling the trigger.

By judging the human race by your personal standards, you are as guilty as the Christians you dislike judging you and others by their own beliefs of what is right and wrong.

In the end, Ebon, you are just like any human, and just as much a part of the problem as any human. No matter how enlightened you'd like to think you are, you are the same as all of us. You contribute to consumption of natural resources. You contribute to consumerism that fuels that consumption. You generate waste and pollution in your daily actions. You judge by the same processes you are judged by.

You, me, Kadius, Wayd, Mike, Merlino, George W., Kerry and Edwards, Martha Stewart, the Pope, Wiccans, Jacques Chirac, the fellow on the street wearing Kleenex boxes for shoes and carrying his entire life in a shopping cart... the fellow passing him on the corner in his BMW...... we are all the same. We are all part of the problem. We can all be part of the solution. None of us is any better than any other, or any less.

Welcome to the human race. We have a welcoming basket for you.... some scented soaps, a ham, and a coupon for Blockbuster.

Ebonlupus · Qualificator Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 30

ZenZhu,

You have told me nothing I am not already painfully aware of. Thank you, though, for reaffirming my deepest dreads... the world is hell and people are both the tortured souls and the devils in it.

I don't feel superior to anyone or anything. I feel inferior to a maggot... for in the natural process a maggot serves greater purposes in the earth's ecology than a human being. Although my soul has within it the essence and thoughts of a Wolf who is dead, my body, in the here and now, is quite depressingly human.

ZenZhu · Vociferator Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 669

ZenZhu,

You have told me nothing I am not already painfully aware of. Thank you, though, for reaffirming my deepest dreads... the world is hell and people are both the tortured souls and the devils in it.

I don't feel superior to anyone or anything. I feel inferior to a maggot... for in the natural process a maggot serves greater purposes in the earth's ecology than a human being. Although my soul has within it the essence and thoughts of a Wolf who is dead, my body, in the here and now, is quite depressingly human.

Well, I tried. I had hoped by the end of this you might share some shred of hope for the world and humanity. It's hard to see someone live without hope. But, you're obviously determined to remain content in your dismal view of the world. That's fine. At least now I can't really hate you. Rather, you make me feel kind of

Snowolf · Qualificator Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

I remember going over to EbonLupus' message board when i first came across him to question his beliefs and sexuality. I told him I was quite disturbed by his art and had decided to ask him face to face what his exact motives were behind his pictures.

Although I have absolutely no problem with his admiration of wolves and the fact he believes humans and animal should live in harmony, as you probably know by now, I see it as morally wrong for a human to have sex with animals. No matter how it is performed I believe sex with animals is as immoral as sex with children. Animals cannot consent. a 14 year old girl may seem as if she likes having sex with a 55 year old man, but it does NOT make it right, let alone legal. The same goes for animals in my opinion.

I don't care about how 'graphic' EbonLupus' art can be, what everyone cares about here is the MOTIVE behind the art. Surely you can understan that Ebon? Surely you an understand how sick that makes most people feel? Can you see why? It is not because we are deluded or 'fuckwits'. We are concerned about animals just as you think you are.

Hmm, i'll assume you didn't get a reply because your post wasn't horribly offensive.. but here is what I think, and Ebon will correct me if I'm wrong with anything here.. ;b

I question what you consider morals.. and I question what you consider as consent. A bitch in heat will turn herself towards just about any animal and flag her tail in her "need" to be mated, would that not be considered consenting? When in heat a bitch very much believes she "needs" to be mated, it is a part of the chemicals released into her brain and without being mated it will cause her mind and her body to take a great deal of additionall stress which is never healthy for any creature, so would it be immoral to help her with something she needs?

I think perhaps you view it all as if all animals who mate with humans are purely on the recieving end of things.. However that is not always the case and more often than not, they are the ones giving.. mounted up on top of whomever they are mating with, or at least standing on equal terms with. And as far as things being legal, well, will you tell me that you've never broken a law? That you've never flat out disagreed with laws made? Or opposed a law that may be passed due to what you think of it? If you dislike a law deeply enough, will you break it? Will you care if you do?

_

Motive behind artwork? Most artists' motives are simply to create a piece and depict a scene, emotion or thought they have. Look at the images he has created, ones with four wolves, hermaphrodite wolves, etc. What could his motives be behind those? What do you mean by motives? Artwork is a form of expression.. in fact, a good few of his sexual drawings are simply done to show scenes from fantasy stories he has written in his spare time, however few seem to wish to see them as such.

There is nothing wrong about being concerned about animals, I'm sure that everone who has posted on the thread so far is deeply concerend about them and just hold different views than others. I see nothing wrong with a human mating with a non-human so long as it isn't simply to please the human. It's the same idea of a domestic dog mating with, say, a sheep or such. Interspecies matings happen frequently in the world, and it is because of such we have many of the species' we do today. But don't think they always mate to simply create offspring, many animals mate simply for the pleasure of mating.. If that were not so, there'd be, "very little" homosexuality in the wild. (edit: not that there's anything wrong with homosexuality or that pleasure is the sole reason for it's existance within the human and/or non-human worlds) :b

However humans "do" abuse and rape non-humans, which I can understand perfectly as humans will abuse and rape just about everything and have little respect for lives of anyone or anything beyond their own(not "all" humans, this is just a general thought not ment to target anyone here or such). Yet there are and can be many truely loving relationships and have been for many many years and will be thoughout all time, fact of life.

The fact there is abuse and rape of animals by humans for self gratification no doubt is what causes such hostility for those who would practice a loving realtionship with a non-human within this forum. I understand that much, however I do not understand how everyone can flat out disreguard the fact that there are those who don't actually rape or abuse them.. *shrugs*

Perhaps someone can make that clear for me?

ZenZhu · Vociferator Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 669

This is conversation:

This is what this conversation seems to have reached:

Any questions?

Snowolf · Qualificator Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

Well, I tried. I had hoped by the end of this you might share some shred of hope for the world and humanity. It's hard to see someone live without hope. But, you're obviously determined to remain content in your dismal view of the world. That's fine. At least now I can't really hate you. Rather, you make me feel kind of "sad"

You know ZenZhu, you've shown you have an open mind far greater than anyone else i've yet seen post here and I thank you for your willingness to be civil and remain calm..

There are a great many people who hold a great deal of dislike if not hate for humanity and what it has and will do. And many who dwell purely on the negative things that have come from man, however everyone holds hope.. Just not all hold any hope that mankind will right its wrongs..

"I" hope that all of humankind will simply die out before the rest of the world is dead.. but I am but one man, and while I can't take steps to bring about that hope, I can, and do, work to try and right the wrongs done thus far. (I also work on teaching tolorance for others thoughts, beliefs and ideas, but I do not advocate tolorance towards attacks of any kind on another. :b Granted I did post a few earlier, but I am not without flaw :b)

But, you're obviously determined to remain content in your dismal view of the world.

Just two thoughts:
1) Those who think as they do likely arn't going to change because of a thread on a forum..
2) Those who think as they do likely don't want to change. :b

But again, thank you for being as open as you have been.

DA · Vociferator Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 355

You know what I see? I see a whole lotta talking but I don't see anything that actually consititutes proof. I am a rational creature, I do not believe blindly, it is possible to convince me with logic and Zenzhu is the only one who has made me think in this thread in interesting ways.

Hey Ebon I don't know what that picture was supposed to do but I still don't believe you, I'm sitting here and I wondering what the hell that was, for all I know that's just a print of the finished 'piece' As for your scraps? Checked don't see nuthin that shows me how you 'create' I can deconstruct my working, can you?

And you know something, Human's are pretty. I learned that from day one, they're a work of art in terms of whatever god/evolution's picture of the world is, why? Because humans are neither inherently bad nor good, they simply are just like any other species.

Genghis · Venter Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 214

Any questions?

Yeah, why is Shane Ritchie talking to a bunch of toffs?

Ebonlupus · Qualificator Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 30

humans are neither inherently bad nor good, they simply are just like any other species.

I disagree. Poluting the environment with toxic things no other animal produces and driving entire species to extinction makes them differnt.

Paul · Venter Joined: 01 Feb 2004 Posts: 215

I don't feel superior to anyone or anything. I feel inferior to a maggot... for in the natural process a maggot serves greater purposes in the earth's ecology than a human being. Although my soul has within it the essence and thoughts of a Wolf who is dead, my body, in the here and now, is quite depressingly human.

If you truly believe you are an animal spirit stuck in a human body, why continue to contribute to mankind's alledged destruction of the planet? You can live in harmony with nature if you want to. Some indigenous people, mostly in Papua New Guinea and the Amazonas region, still live as hunter/gatherers and live off what nature offers without doing any damage to it. You could live like that too - put your money where your mouth is, so to speak. Of course that means giving up all mod cons including computer and internet plus running the risk of dying from something as banal as appendicitis or an infection.

Using the human-made appliances of modern human civilization to put down the very human race seems to me pretty hypocritical or at least very inconsistent.

Ebonlupus · Qualificator Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 30

Paul,

I lived that way for six years until my health failed. I would live that way now if I could... bad genetics beyond my control. Have you ever tasted warm doe blood as it pumps from the wound in her thoat? There's nothing like it in the human world.

Yes. I'm, a hypocrite, we all are... it's part of being human... bad genetics beyond my control.

ZenZhu · Vociferator Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 669

You know ZenZhu, you've shown you have an open mind far greater than anyone else i've yet seen post here and I thank you for your willingness to be civil and remain calm..

Well, the temptation to flame was ever-present, but I didn't really want to flame Ebon. I wanted to understand him better. I could see from some of his other posts that being snippy would get nowhere, so, why not actually encourage civil discourse.

On top of which, I can't verify any of the claims made about him. I sense in him something that tells me he wouldn't actually abuse an animal. I cannot say that any intimate contact he may have with an animal does not seem like it would leave any trauma... but I can't say that it seems likely it would, either. He seems to exist in that gray area between what might be considered simply indulging an animal's natural instincts, and indulging one's own selfish desires and rationalizing it after-the-fact. IMO, however, he leans more toward simply indulging the animal.

One note I failed to mention earlier was the concept of "misplaced souls." Now, I can certainly buy into the idea of a Jungian archetype related to those attributes humans project into animal behavior. But, in most traditional views of reincarnation, there really isn't a migration of one, single soul from one form to the next. Any one lifeform's present "soul" is, in many views of reincarnation, a mixing of fragments of other souls. In the Buddhist traditions, there isn't even really a "soul" per se. Karma is the energies we put into the cosmos by our actions.. good and bad. It carries something of us with it, but, really, there is no soul to be transferred from one life to the next... no real consciousness.. just energies that meld with other energies and conglomerate into the next form.

Additionally, I typically view a soul as formless, genderless, speciesless.... it is like water.. it takes the shape of the vessel that contains it. Saying one is a wolf soul, or bear soul trapped in a human body.. or even that one was formerly Caesar or Napoleon... is like saying you poured square water into a round container... and it stayed square.

But, I'm not contesting the idea of former animal souls. I'm just offering up an alternate interpretation on soul transferrence.

Offhand, in the infinite wisdom animal spirits are attributed with.... doesn't it seem like they'd know what they were doing, choosing to occupy a human form? Might it not be possible that Ebon's "wolf spirit" is not actually a case of a wolf doomed to waste away in a human shell.... but that it was a wolf spirit that chose to occupy a human form to have the opportunity to act through it? Would not accepting the attitude that one is destined to rot away in a human body, then, be kind of a waste of the "wolf spirit's" energies and an insult to whatever plan it may have sought to fulfill?

Just a notion.

There are a great many people who hold a great deal of dislike if not hate for humanity and what it has and will do.

Of course, no one can predict what Man will do. Man may doom himself, he may be the planet's savior.

Or Lur of the planet Omicron Persei 8 will come in and raise the Earth's temperature by one million degrees each day in an effort to see the final episode of Jenny McBeal.

Just for some info to mull over, there is the concept of the Four Noble Truths in Buddhism. Maybe there's something there that'll be helpful.

1) Life is suffering.
2) We are the cause of our own suffering through attachment.
3) The cessation of suffering is achievable.
4) There paths that lead to the cessation of suffering (in Buddhism, there is the Eightfold path.. but, in reality.. and even the Dalai Lama himself would tell you this... there are many, many paths.. not just one right one.)

Anyway... food for thought.

"I" hope that all of humankind will simply die out before the rest of the world is dead.. but I am but one man, and while I can't take steps to bring about that hope, I can, and do, work to try and right the wrongs done thus far.

Unfortunately, harboring the hope that mankind will wipe itself out before it messes stuff up too much probably does more harm than good. It might lead toward a self-fulfilling prophecy, rather than an actual realization of destiny.

Just two thoughts:
1) Those who think as they do likely arn't going to change because of a thread on a forum..
2) Those who think as they do likely don't want to change. :b

No, I wouldn't think so. It just seems in Ebon's case that it's not merely an acceptance of what he thinks is the unavoidable human condition.. but that he doesn't want to believe otherwise.... that part of him realizes that Man is not inherently evil... that Man can change.... but he'd rather kill that part of him than even harbor the uncomfortable notion that his views might be misplaced. As you said... there are those whose minds cannot be changed for the simple fact that they will not allow them to change. For all of the closed-mindedness he feels humans exhibit, he, himself, is exhibiting that same closed-mindedness by not being open to the possibility that maybe.. just maybe... humankind isn't as bad as he makes it out to be.

But again, thank you for being as open as you have been.

Well, it was a good opportunity to practice some of my Buddhist teachings. I guess, in the end, I'm just a little frustrated that his condition seems so sad. Folks like him usually wind up as a name in A.F.F. followed by the details of how they hung themselves, shot themselves, or hurled themselves onto the pavement. Star's Pyre comes to mind. Hopefully, he can at least find some solace to make his life fulfilling.

Don't get me wrong... I do think that he's off his rocker in some respects, and I would not want to be in room with him and multiple sharp objects. But, as long as he isn't actually harming anyone or anything.. including himself... I can afford him respect as a fellow being.

At any rate, I think I've about expended myself in this discourse. I sense we're starting to get into a holding pattern here. Thanks on both sides for what civility was exercised, and the exchange of ideas that, hopefully, added a little to everyone's understanding.

ZenZhu · Vociferator Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 669

Paul,

I lived that way for six years until my health failed. I would live that way now if I could... bad genetics beyond my control. Have you ever tasted warm doe blood as it pumps from the wound in her thoat? There's nothing like it in the human world.

I dunno.. I think Twinkie filling has doe blood in it......

Or is that chicken drippings?

Ebonlupus · Qualificator Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 30

Paul,

I lived that way for six years until my health failed. I would live that way now if I could... bad genetics beyond my control. Have you ever tasted warm doe blood as it pumps from the wound in her thoat? There's nothing like it in the human world.

I dunno.. I think Twinkie filling has doe blood in it......

Or is that chicken drippings?

Twinkies scare me.

ZenZhu · Vociferator Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 669

What does ze Tvinkie zay zat zcares you?

DA · Vociferator Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 355

You know, one of these days I'm gonna figure out what it is about Ebon at sets off my other sense...The one that screams there's something very off-kilter about what he has to say. It's never been wrong yet.

I disagree. Poluting the environment with toxic things no other animal produces and driving entire species to extinction makes them differnt.

You seem to have conveniently forgotten how animal species will wipe each other out in competition for food.

One word for you: Methane, all animals produce it and guess what it does? It destroy's ozone.

I must say I love how you selectively reply to stuff and ignore the rest, either you can't answer or won't answer, either way you should say once and for all.

Ebonlupus · Qualificator Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 30

ZenZhu,

I think you need more input before you can make your final determination regarding this Wolf. Here is how an essay regarding nurturing of Wolf soul, I am working on, opens. It will be used on http://wolfsoul.org ... which is my under construction webpage on this topic.

For those of us with a lucid animal spirit within our soul life can, at times, seem confusing. These spirits can influence us in strange ways and alter our behavior. However, unless we have allowed the world to disease our wits, we have the final choice of what path we follow... the path of our human, the path of our totem spirit; Wolf, or the middle path between them. I think in the end we must choose the middle path in order to find peace in our lives. We must be willing to accept that there are traits in the human worthy of mastering as well.

Human traits are those which allow us to further ourselves in the human world, comprehend people, co-exist with them, and show them errors in their ways. If one does not try to teach other's what one perceives as wrong then how can one ever expect to effect changes? What if we, ourselves, are wrong? Then time shall tell. The world is a half-silvered mirror, whereupon we impose an image of the self. If we look into it clearly we can also see beyond the self and learn from others. We can test our opinions against others, and if we learn to listen and think, hone the edge of our understanding to sharpness. This is true especially if we have learned to trust and love our Wolf and see his or her wisdom in life's trials.

How do we nurture our Lupine spirit so that we may prosper by it, rather than suffer for it? This is a question I have indulged in for many years now, and what follows is an attempt to explain the solutions I have found. Please understand, dear reader, that these are not the only solutions, nor may they be the best solutions. The truth lies within yourself... the truth is an introspective embrace between you and your Wolf... together you will achieve the Tao of your own enlightenment.

Snowolf · Qualificator Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

Don't get me wrong... I do think that he's off his rocker in some respects, and I would not want to be in room with him and multiple sharp objects. But, as long as he isn't actually harming anyone or anything.. including himself... I can afford him respect as a fellow being.

I've spent a good deal of time around him with sharp things about, not once have I ever felt as if he'd do anything to harm me or anyone else. Having a strong dislike or hate for someone, something or group, doesn't always lead to violence. ^.~

Snowolf · Qualificator Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

You know, one of these days I'm gonna figure out what it is about Ebon at sets off my other sense...The one that screams there's something very off-kilter about what he has to say. It's never been wrong yet.

I disagree. Poluting the environment with toxic things no other animal produces and driving entire species to extinction makes them differnt.

You seem to have conveniently forgotten how animal species will wipe each other out in competition for food.

One word for you: Methane, all animals produce it and guess what it does? It destroy's ozone.

I must say I love how you selectively reply to stuff and ignore the rest, either you can't answer or won't answer, either way you should say once and for all.

Wow, let's recap what was said.. ebon said "poluting the enviroment with toxic things no other animal produces and driving entire species to extinction".. now, lemme think..

The "no other animal" thing would kinda mean, polutiants OTHER THAN things such as methane as animals naturally create it. *gasp*

And as for animals "wiping eachother out" for food, sure, it happens, but not GLOBALLY. In select areas one species may die out, but animals wont go hunting down all remaining members of a species to remove it from the face of the earth..

*ponder* Would it be too much to ask you to read everyone else's posts at least once before replying to them? :)

Ebonlupus · Qualificator Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 30

You seem to have conveniently forgotten how animal species will wipe each other out in competition for food.

No other animal kills off an entire species, driving it to extinction. An environmental disaster like a meteor... a volcano exploding... or an ice age might. If you have an example to prove that an animal species other than man has driven a species to extinction then please show me your reference. Thanks :)

One word for you: Methane, all animals produce it and guess what it does? It destroy's ozone.

Before human beings came along and started factory farming, methane emissions were in balance. Because humans concentrate livestock and they themselves have now far exceeded their sustainable population for the resources available to them, methane is indeed worrisome.

I must say I love how you selectively reply to stuff and ignore the rest, either you can't answer or won't answer, either way you should say once and for all.

I'm glad there is some love in you, at least.

ZenZhu · Vociferator Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 669

ZenZhu,

I think you need more input before you can make your final determination regarding this Wolf. Here is how an essay regarding nurturing of Wolf soul, I am working on, opens. It will be used on http://wolfsoul.org ... which is my under construction webpage on this topic.

Sorry, but I have to count you as a biased source. If I want to delve more into the idea of animal souls, I'll do my own research from what I would consider more reputable sources of info.

In the end, no one can define what the nature of the soul is. My definition is no more right or wrong than yours... and, by the time we're in a form that will comprehend it's true nature.... it's a bit too late to post on the Internet. ;) That's one of the things I love about Buddhism... doesn't matter who has the right definition, so long as folks live a good life. We could all be wrong.. the soul could be a pizza for all we know.

Stuffed-crust soul.

At any rate, I've gotten most of what info I wanted clarification on. The question as to what degree the wolf cub was photomanipulated hasn't been sufficiently addressed, but at least some insight was gained. I may not see anywhere near eye-to-eye with Ebon or Sno.. but I can at least respect that their views are their own, and relatively harmless. (Just don't ever let your desperation get you down, guys... I don't want to hear about either of you swallowing the business end of a shotgun cuz you couldn't put up with being human any longer.)

As far as the pluses and minuses of the human species... oi vey.... I have better things to do with my time than try and climb that mountainous molehill of Internet forumitude. With all due respect to Ebon and Sno, trying to argue that would be as productive as trying to bore through a steel wall with a feather. So, I'll leave that to anyone else who wants to tackle that fool's errand. Anything more on my part would just be going in circles, the very thought of which makes me dizzy.

I will say one good thing has come out of this.. it's reaffirmed my faith in humanity and the general goodness of life.

La dee dah dee dah dum.....

Plus, I found a ton of kimono babe pictures.

Computolio · Vociferator Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 405

Donotsue,

Unfortunately Wolves aren't the cure; they are a victim.

This just made my fucking day. You're such a fucking tool that we can hold you at bay with quotes from THE fucking MATRIX. The dumbest most pretentious ripoff of the dumbest most pretentious ripoff anime shows laced heavily with a broken as fuck stoner philosophy and Donotsue just BEAT YOU OVER THE FUCKING HEAD WITH IT.

I guess this means that I've gotta go re-watch Evangelion and play Metal Gear Solid 2 to prepare for our next round of debate. Toodles!

Snowolf · Qualificator Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

I may not see anywhere near eye-to-eye with Ebon or Sno.. but I can at least respect that their views are their own, and relatively harmless. (Just don't ever let your desperation get you down, guys... I don't want to hear about either of you swallowing the business end of a shotgun cuz you couldn't put up with being human any longer.)

Speaking for myself of course, I may hate this body I'm stuck in, but at least I can do something with it, better than nothing right? I've found a good few others like myself and Ebon and I don't feel too alone anymore. I feel safely out of the suicide depression zone and into the "bleh" zone now.. Can't get much worse, and not expecting it to get better.. In short, I'm alive. ^.~

Snowolf · Qualificator Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

Donotsue,

Unfortunately Wolves aren't the cure; they are a victim.

This just made my fucking day. You're such a fucking tool that we can hold you at bay with quotes from THE fucking MATRIX. The dumbest most pretentious ripoff of the dumbest most pretentious ripoff anime shows laced heavily with a broken as fuck stoner philosophy and Donotsue just BEAT YOU OVER THE FUCKING HEAD WITH IT.

I guess this means that I've gotta go re-watch Evangelion and play Metal Gear Solid 2 to prepare for our next round of debate. Toodles!

Now, I think you lost me in that post.. were you admiting to be a stoner? Or is there another explaination to what you tried to say? ;b

Paul · Venter Joined: 01 Feb 2004 Posts: 215

Paul,

I lived that way for six years until my health failed. I would live that way now if I could... bad genetics beyond my control.

That's very understandable. Now, an animal will not enter human civilization to take advantage of the help that can be gained from modern living conditions or medicine, but will stay out in nature and die from whatever cause at whatever age. So it seems the human part of you is the strongest after all. So why not if not accept mankind's failings at least come to some kind of peace with it? Your view of humans is very negative. While I gather you're not concerned that most people will be offended by your condescending assesment of humanity, a less negative view of it might give yourself a less frustrating stay here in the human part of the world. You're obviously not content with things... and a slight change of attitude might ease that a bit. I fully acknowledge man's capacity for horrors, but I certainly also acknowledge his capacity for all manner of good things. Basically, I think being a human is great.

Have you ever tasted warm doe blood as it pumps from the wound in her thoat?

Can't say that I have. I've tasted human blood, and I didn't like it enough to start on that of other species. But hey, there's no accounting for taste.

Computolio · Vociferator Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 405

So mr. EBONERLOLupus...

If it wasn't for the piles and piles of soft-focus-traced non-talking-real-life wolf smut, I'd be convinced that you were the greatest prank the internet has ever known. Your writing sounds like an elegantly clever parody of every Linkin Park song written and yet to be written. Your devestatingly ineffective attempts at argument sound like every furry argument trick in the book ramped up so far beyond absurdity that fucking POOKIE could probably get a laugh or two out of you. It's a degree of whiny that would have put me in tears of laughter if it wasn't for it's accompaniment by said soft-focus-traced-non-talking-wolf smut.

It just might be that you REALLY BELIEVE that you are a reincarnated animal, as opposed to believing that you believe you are a reincarnated animal as do most of the otherkin types I tend to see. If not, congratulations on creating the most convoluted justification for fucking your dog EVER. I already would love to see you dead but perhaps you would have dulled that desire somewhat if you just said AH FUCKS MAH PETS and left it at that.

I hate people who abuse animals or defile the natural world.

Well, it just so happens that we have one thing in common! You abuse animals (and of course never admit it's abuse because it's JUST SO VERY DIFFERENT when YOU fuck your dog) and defile the natural world with your interpretation of it being your sexual plaything (also: using that as justification for being a dogfucker). Get off my internet. Seriously. Get out.

I'm all for keeping the internet weird, but you are in fact not just weird but rather dangerous. And that's where I draw the line, that's where the Portal Of Evil Prime Directive ends. I'd like, try to call the cops on you and stuff but that's already been done and by your own admission you've been investigated several times. Of course they don't have enough dirt on you* but I think everyone here can agree that a slip-up on your part that gets you shoved in jail (or at least puts you in debt for the rest of your life and gets your SPECIAL WOLFIES taken away from you) is a good thing to hope for.

*fun theory: what if they DID? For all we know he could have had his pets taken away from him years ago and there's no real way we'd know. In fact, what if he's pulling a Trigem and never owned a dog? I tell you now, that'd make all this even funnier than it already is.

Snowolf · Qualificator Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

While I deeply hate that I am human and such, I won't say there arn't things I don't like..

1) I love my thumbs
2) I love my thumbs
3) I love my thumbs
...
hmm.. alright, I suppose there is a "thing" that I like about being human.. lol

Snowolf · Qualificator Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

Well, it just so happens that we have one thing in common! You abuse animals (and of course never admit it's abuse because it's JUST SO VERY DIFFERENT when YOU fuck your dog) and defile the natural world with your interpretation of it being your sexual plaything (also: using that as justification for being a dogfucker). Get off my internet. Seriously. Get out.

I'm all for keeping the internet weird, but you are in fact not just weird but rather dangerous. And that's where I draw the line, that's where the Portal Of Evil Prime Directive ends. I'd like, try to call the cops on you and stuff but that's already been done and by your own admission you've been investigated several times. Of course they don't have enough dirt on you* but I think everyone here can agree that a slip-up on your part that gets you shoved in jail (or at least puts you in debt for the rest of your life and gets your SPECIAL WOLFIES taken away from you) is a good thing to hope for.

*fun theory: what if they DID? For all we know he could have had his pets taken away from him years ago and there's no real way we'd know. In fact, what if he's pulling a Trigem and never owned a dog? I tell you now, that'd make all this even funnier than it already is.

Well, being that I know Ebon quite well and I'm sitting here able to see one of his canine companions laying in the far corner of the room taking a nap(unsure where the other is at the moment) I can vouch that he does indeed have them. ^.~

Oh, and since you seem a bit clueless:

a·buse ( P )
tr.v. a·bused, a·bus·ing, a·bus·es
1- To use wrongly or improperly; misuse: abuse alcohol; abuse a privilege.
2- To hurt or injure by maltreatment; ill-use.
3- To force sexual activity on; rape or molest.
4- To assail with contemptuous, coarse, or insulting words; revile.
5- Obsolete. To deceive or trick.

In all the time I've spent with/around Ebon not once have I heard or seen him say or do anything that falls under the cadegory of abuse. He does not "use" his companions. He does not harm them in ANY way(as vets can vouch for). He has never forced himself on them(as such would be very apparent in several ways, from vet checks to how they'd behave around him(rape causes fear in all animals, human or not)).

However one might say YOU are abusing him through your words you use, assult.

And what does it matter what he believes? He has the right to think as he wants, just as I have the right to think that you're the saddest, piss-poor excuse for a man I've ever seen.. a little sherry-sipping Frenchman in a latex mini-skirt. - However, doesn't give me the right to "say" such, just to think it. ;)

Computolio · Vociferator Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 405

However one might say YOU are abusing him through your words you use, assult.

And what does it matter what he believes? He has the right to think as he wants, just as I have the right to think that you're the saddest, piss-poor excuse for a man I've ever seen.. a little sherry-sipping Frenchman in a latex mini-skirt. - However, doesn't give me the right to "say" such, just to think it. ;)

I am loving you so much right now on a level you will never be able to understand.

Paul · Venter Joined: 01 Feb 2004 Posts: 215

While I deeply hate that I am human and such, I won't say there arn't things I don't like..

1) I love my thumbs
2) I love my thumbs
3) I love my thumbs
...
hmm.. alright, I suppose there is a "thing" that I like about being human.. lol

That is a truly sad statement.

... and I still think this is the funniest thread ever.

Kadius · Venter Joined: 10 Feb 2004 Posts: 254

Paul,

I lived that way for six years until my health failed. I would live that way now if I could... bad genetics beyond my control. Have you ever tasted warm doe blood as it pumps from the wound in her thoat? There's nothing like it in the human world.

Yes. I'm, a hypocrite, we all are... it's part of being human... bad genetics beyond my control.

So, you killed animals ate nothing but meat for six years? Tell me, did you use an evil human device to take them down or did you do it like the wolf you pretend to be? Did you sleep in a tent or on the cold ground? I'd really like to know.

Snowolf · Qualificator Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

However one might say YOU are abusing him through your words you use, assult.

And what does it matter what he believes? He has the right to think as he wants, just as I have the right to think that you're the saddest, piss-poor excuse for a man I've ever seen.. a little sherry-sipping Frenchman in a latex mini-skirt. - However, doesn't give me the right to "say" such, just to think it. ;)

I am loving you so much right now on a level you will never be able to understand.

Just so long as you're loving me with a condom and water based lubes and not oil ones sweety ^.~ <3

Snowolf · Qualificator Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

Paul,

I lived that way for six years until my health failed. I would live that way now if I could... bad genetics beyond my control. Have you ever tasted warm doe blood as it pumps from the wound in her thoat? There's nothing like it in the human world.

Yes. I'm, a hypocrite, we all are... it's part of being human... bad genetics beyond my control.

So, you killed animals ate nothing but meat for six years? Tell me, did you use an evil human device to take them down or did you do it like the wolf you pretend to be? Did you sleep in a tent or on the cold ground? I'd really like to know.

A knife is all that's needed, but no doubt you'll cry over it being an "evil human device" but then we don't have lupine bodies.. no fangs, jaws far less powerful and legs far less swift.. And even a wolf will find shelter during storms mind you ^.~

Ebonlupus · Qualificator Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 30

I don't want to hear about either of you swallowing the business end of a shotgun cuz you couldn't put up with being human any longer.

Wolves do not kill themselves; it's against their nature. To kill myself would dishonor my Wolf... make me unworthy of him; this is something I will not do. A wolf will hunt with a broken leg.

Ebonlupus · Qualificator Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 30

Computolio,

You're an asshole. *lix you*

Ebonlupus · Qualificator Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 30

Have you ever tasted warm doe blood as it pumps from the wound in her thoat?

Can't say that I have. I've tasted human blood, and I didn't like it enough to start on that of other species. But hey, there's no accounting for taste.

Human blood is bitter and far too metallic for my tastes too. Maybe a reason Wolves wont hunt them?

Kadius · Venter Joined: 10 Feb 2004 Posts: 254

Wolves do not kill themselves; it's against their nature. To kill myself would dishonor my Wolf... make me unworthy of him; this is something I will not do. A wolf will hunt with a broken leg.

Animals don't have honor. That's a (rare) human trait. Wolves and other animals are too stupid to ponder their own existance. There's nothing magical about any animal, they're all sacks of filth. This includes humans. AND WOLVES.

While I'm on the subject of wolves, I'd like to make something clear to you.
YOU ARE NOT A WOLF.
YOU ARE NOT A FUCKING WOLF.

Do you understand?

Ebonlupus · Qualificator Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 30

So, you killed animals ate nothing but meat for six years? Tell me, did you use an evil human device to take them down or did you do it like the wolf you pretend to be? Did you sleep in a tent or on the cold ground? I'd really like to know.

Actually there are a lot of things to eat in the forest besides meat... berries, mushrooms, candy flowers, wild cabbages dandelions. I used a rifle, a pistol, and a very large Buck knife because this human body is not designed to be a predator but a gatherer. If you cannot understand that it's not the body but the spirit within that matters then there is nothing I can ever woof to you that you'll understand.

I've been face to face with a cougar, two bears, lots of coyotes, and even befriended an elk herd with carrots once. Kissed an elk cow on the mouth and was challenged by her bull. Best time of my life.

Oh... most of the time I slept on the ground.

Ebonlupus · Qualificator Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 30

Kadius,

How long have you been a bully... did it start in third grade? Do you really feel so small inside you have to pull yourself up by trying to knock others down? You are virtually everything I hate about humanity. You are even less than man.

Fuck you.

Snowolf · Qualificator Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

Animals don't have honor. That's a (rare) human trait. Wolves and other animals are too stupid to ponder their own existance. There's nothing magical about any animal, they're all sacks of filth. This includes humans. AND WOLVES.

While I'm on the subject of wolves, I'd like to make something clear to you.
YOU ARE NOT A WOLF.
YOU ARE NOT A FUCKING WOLF.

Do you understand?

Since you seem to know everything, oh wise one, should I call you god and kiss your feet? Or should I treat you like the ignorant, stuckup, son of a cunt you've shown yourself to be?

Who are you to try and say what anyone but yourself is. Physically Ebon, myself, many others, are not a wolf, but until you can somehow shrink your ego(and while at it the rest of yourself) to fit into our heads and see through our eyes I suggest you learn your place, you filthy human, and shut the fuck up. :)

Khroan · Qualificator Joined: 29 Dec 2003 Posts: 38

jesus christ this thread is a trainwreck

DEAR EBONWOLF AND CO.: shut up and get off of this internet, then strip naked and run around in the snow before you just lay there and die because you couldn't go 24 hours without a twinkie because you are so GROTESQUELY OBESE

love, khroan

Snowolf · Qualificator Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

jesus christ this thread is a trainwreck

DEAR EBONWOLF AND CO.: shut up and get off of this internet, then strip naked and run around in the snow before you just lay there and die because you couldn't go 24 hours without a twinkie because you are so GROTESQUELY OBESE

love, khroan

If only twinkies would help me gain weight and not just rot my teeth.. *sigh* :(

Kadius · Venter Joined: 10 Feb 2004 Posts: 254

Kadius,

How long have you been a bully... did it start in third grade? Do you really feel so small inside you have to pull yourself up by trying to knock others down? You are virtually everything I hate about humanity. You are even less than man.

Fuck you.

Actually, I've never been a bully, quite the opposite actually. I just hate your fucking guts because you refuse to understand that you're in a fantasy world and how you've acted towards everyone here. You need to get over your superiority complex. You're sick, mentally. Delusions of grander and of having a wolf spirit.

And did I ever claim to be more of a man than you? No. I said that we are all humans and there's no escaping it. I'm not trying to build myself up by doing this. I just enjoy pissing you off now.

And yeah, fuck you too. Ebon.

Since you seem to know everything, oh wise one, should I call you god and kiss your feet? Or should I treat you like the ignorant, stuckup, son of a cunt you've shown yourself to be?

Who are you to try and say what anyone but yourself is. Physically Ebon, myself, many others, are not a wolf, but until you can somehow shrink your ego(and while at it the rest of yourself) to fit into our heads and see through our eyes I suggest you learn your place, you filthy human, and shut the fuck up. :)

I would say you may idolize me if you wish. But my humbleness of character and disgust towards you and Ebon tells me to say no. Also, my ego is perfectly in check. I don't need to see through your eyes, nor do I wish to. Both of you are wrong, period. No matter how many times you state that you aren't. I thought I had social problems and had a misconception of the world around me. But after reading what you two have posted, I feel much better about myself. Thank you.

And as for me being a filthy human, you and Ebon are too. It's like the pot calling the kettle black. This kind of stuff doesn't bother me at all. You're going to have to try harder to insult me. Please.

Edit:

I used a rifle, a pistol, and a very large Buck knife because this human body is not designed to be a predator but a gatherer. If you cannot understand that it's not the body but the spirit within that matters then there is nothing I can ever woof to you that you'll understand.

But isn't using a gun below you? And again, no wolf spirit, just a deranged human one.

Hehe, he said "woof" again.

Tailgunner · Prattler Joined: 28 Oct 2003 Posts: 175

In that photo, it is obvious that the hunter in the aircraft is no good. I mean come on! He popped that wolf about 5-6 times. It's stupid I tell you.

What he should have done is pop that wolf twice, then pop one bullet into each of those annoying cubs! Geez, if you are going to do something, you might as well do it right!

Snowolf · Qualificator Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

lol, poor closed minded fool ^.^

Tailgunner · Prattler Joined: 28 Oct 2003 Posts: 175

I have been told that I have a narrow view in life. That is due to the fact that my outlook is usually through a rifle scope.

Khroan · Qualificator Joined: 29 Dec 2003 Posts: 38

lol, poor closed minded fool ^.^

^.^

edit: lolz i bet kadius I WIN THE INTERNET

Kadius · Venter Joined: 10 Feb 2004 Posts: 254

WARNING: Generic furry insult ahead:

lol, poor closed minded fool ^.^

Khroan: A winnar is you! *^-^*

Tailgunner · Prattler Joined: 28 Oct 2003 Posts: 175

Believe me, wolves only look cool until they bare their fangs. Those creatures are vicious, souless abominations fit only to consume other creatures and wouldn't give a second thought to biting your hand off after freeing one from a trap. Just ask any wildlife official if you don't believe me.

Tailgunner · Prattler Joined: 28 Oct 2003 Posts: 175

Awe man, just when I was getting a good troll going on, they leave.

mouse · Vociferator Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 740

Paul,

I lived that way for six years until my health failed. I would live that way now if I could... bad genetics beyond my control. Have you ever tasted warm doe blood as it pumps from the wound in her thoat? There's nothing like it in the human world.

Yes. I'm, a hypocrite, we all are... it's part of being human... bad genetics beyond my control.

So, you killed animals ate nothing but meat for six years? Tell me, did you use an evil human device to take them down or did you do it like the wolf you pretend to be? Did you sleep in a tent or on the cold ground? I'd really like to know.

It just goes to show you how fucked in the head this guy is. Its only wrong to aerially shoot wolves because they are wolves, and its ok for him to bite open live deer because he is a "wolf"....give me a fucking break. If he did do that, it shows even further what a worthless sack of shit this sad excuse for a human being really is.

Re: everything else i this thread up to this point.
Almost felt bad for Ebonlupus, just because how completely totally damaged he is. almost, but not really so much at this point.

I really don't like recommending such a thing...but this unbelievably pretentious shithead seriously belongs in a rubber room somewhere - preferably for the rest of his pathetic life.

Dogthing · Venter Joined: 26 Oct 2003 Posts: 257

Well, I don't know about this you guys! From the "art" by Ebonlupuss that was posted earlier, I'd say he is everything he says he is! A wolf! At least in spirit, of course!

You see, I found this out because I noticed that he seems to have the need to piss all over something and declare it his! It is all so obvious you fools!

And this Snowolf guy, he is truly wonderful! HE uses such cute and interesting and not at all bandwagon-y smilies, and has a unique perspective on all of us here at cyd! He is very very correct! We are all very close minded fools (^.^ DID YOU SEE THAT I USED HIS WONDERFUL SMILIEY I AM TRULY AWESOME 8) 8) 8) )!

Having an open mind is what everyone should have! My own mind is very open, and that is why I let hookers into my house to engage in crack deals! At first I wouldn't let their dealers in because I know that would trash my house because they are quite the rowdy folk (^.^ THERE'S THAT SMILEY AGAIN YOU CLOSEDED MINDED FOALS, LOOK AT IT HA HA ^.^) but I eventually let them in because my mind is very open to their suffering and all they need is love and understanding and the use of my house to deal their very mind-expanding wares!

It is the same with wolfs!!!!! We must accept their spirit with open arms and open minds because a closed fist is like a closed mind did you see that there? I pretended like I know Kungrate a minute there because I'm a wolf/martial artist.

ANYWAYS MY FRIENDS, I am saying that wolfses should be treated with respect and kindness and very neighbourly! After all their spirit is so great and artistic and intelligent even though wolves have very little intelligence and will often kill each other's young, but it doesn't matter because their SPIRIT is what counts because it is so BIG AND WONDERFUL and it makes your mind OPEN, and wolves cannot make a CLOSED FIST (WHICH IS LIKE A CLOSED MIND MY SENSEI ^.^ TOLD ME THAT) because they have no prehensile thumbs with which to do it! It must make them so GREAT

and that is all I hope you all open your mind and understand

Snowolf · Qualificator Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

Any of you thought of perhaps taking anger management classes? I seriously would recommend looking into it, as you all seem to have some issues.. ahahaha

mouse · Vociferator Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 740

Any of you thought of perhaps taking anger management classes? I seriously would recommend looking into it, as you all seem to have some issues.. ahahaha

ohoho!

That is really fucking funny ! you have NO idea...

Dogthing · Venter Joined: 26 Oct 2003 Posts: 257

Any of you thought of perhaps taking anger management classes? I seriously would recommend looking into it, as you all seem to have some issues.. ahahaha

Yes I agree, being angry is very un-wolfly behaviour my fellow wolf!!!!! Snarliing is just a show of fierce and that ripping and tearing and killing each other's young is all just spirited playtime because our spirits are SO HUGE AND GREAT like an xbox

Kadius · Venter Joined: 10 Feb 2004 Posts: 254

Any of you thought of perhaps taking anger management classes? I seriously would recommend looking into it, as you all seem to have some issues.. ahahaha

Hehehehehe.

Edit:Beaten to it.

Snowolf · Qualificator Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

Any of you thought of perhaps taking anger management classes? I seriously would recommend looking into it, as you all seem to have some issues.. ahahaha

Yes I agree, being angry is very un-wolfly behaviour my fellow wolf!!!!! Snarliing is just a show of fierce and that ripping and tearing and killing each other's young is all just spirited playtime because our spirits are SO HUGE AND GREAT like an xbox

You quite obviously don't know shit about wolves, but then they say ignorance is bliss and you sure seem happy to continue beliving in lies so I'll not atempt to change your views.

Know simply that you're an ignorant man and should perhaps stop talking about things you know nothing of. :)

Kadius · Venter Joined: 10 Feb 2004 Posts: 254

You quite obviously don't know shit about wolves, but then they say ignorance is bliss and you sure seem happy to continue beliving in lies so I'll not atempt to change your views.

Know simply that you're an ignorant man and should perhaps stop talking about things you know nothing of. :)

WOLVES ARE THE PATH TO ENLIGHTENMENT.

Dogthing · Venter Joined: 26 Oct 2003 Posts: 257

You quite obviously don't know shit about wolves, but then they say ignorance is bliss and you sure seem happy to continue beliving in lies so I'll not atempt to change your views.

Know simply that you're an ignorant man and should perhaps stop talking about things you know nothing of. :)

Are you mean to say that the discovery channel was lying to me this whole time!?!?!?!?!?!?!? D:

This is truly unfortuant!

I must truly also be an ignorant man. Tell me sir, if you are such a paragon of intelligence and such an esteemed philosphical thinker, what say you my claim that you are a piggish solipsist, with rose-tinted vision about some imagined "spirit" that is present in the latest in a long line of primitive, simple canids with no chance of ever having the ability for logic or reason?

What say you to the simple fact that you are the, perhaps, most asinine and hypocritical person I've ever seen spew his worthless diahhrea posts on an internet forum? Strike that, that would probably be JJCoolJ, but I digress. You are certainly an ignoramous, to say the least.

Your first, and perhaps the most glaringly stupid aspect of your whole gimmick of a life is thinking that you a member of family canidae. Of course not in physical form, you say! Only in spirit! Aha. And what lends you thought that such a lupine spirit exists? What lends you thought that spirits exist at all? Can you see them, touch them, feel them, hear them? Can you honestly believe that you HAVE something so obscure and unlikely as a spirit?

You are asinine. Stop living, please. Do the world a favor, and hide yourself from it. We don't want you here, reject. Give yourself over to the wolves you identify with so closely, hope that they will see you WONDERFALL SPIRAT and let you join the pack, when instead you will join their last bloody meal in their gut, and eventually the leaves on the ground as their shit.

You would be wolfshit. I daresay it's an improvement.

Edit: :) :) :) :) :) :) hehe you are ignant hehe issues etc :) :) :) :) ^.^

Snowolf · Qualificator Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

Praytell "Dogthing" how have I been hypocritical?

Oh, and note that the Discovery Channel rather well enjoys telling only facts, whereas your post prior to your last in which you'd said they like to slay whelps and whatnot was based on lies that have been propogated by those whom hate and distrust wolves for whatever reasons they hold.

And what you'd said is not fact, and thus I cannot and refuse to, believe any of that garbage you spewed forth was from the Discovery Channel or any such group. :)

Khroan · Qualificator Joined: 29 Dec 2003 Posts: 38

WOULD YUO LIEK TO COME INTO MY VAN??????

IT IS FULL OFF CANDY!!!! AND DEAD HOOKERS!!!!!!

(god i am so late and UNFUNNY :( :( )

DA · Vociferator Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 355

Wow, let's recap what was said.. ebon said "poluting the enviroment with toxic things no other animal produces and driving entire species to extinction".. now, lemme think..

The "no other animal" thing would kinda mean, polutiants OTHER THAN things such as methane as animals naturally create it. *gasp*

And as for animals "wiping eachother out" for food, sure, it happens, but not GLOBALLY. In select areas one species may die out, but animals wont go hunting down all remaining members of a species to remove it from the face of the earth..

*ponder* Would it be too much to ask you to read everyone else's posts at least once before replying to them? :)

You know, If you lived where I am I could take you out into the countryside and tell you about a lot of ancient animals who used to live here and nowhere else who are now extinct not because of humans but because they lost out to other species.

Locusts cause mass species wipe out, the red squirrel is almost wiped out being pushed out in the competition for food by the grey squirrel. It's called *gasp* Evolution. Chimpanzee's if I recall rightly are actually responsible for wiping out another species of primate by hunting them to extinction. Point is humans are not the universal automatic enemy's of all species.

You missed my point, my point is that every animal 'pollutes' it's environment, perhaps we humans are the only ones who can take a step back and actually think about our impact on the environment. A cow doesn't think oh I shouldn't fart so much because it might harm the environment but a human would consider ways to use the methane so it didn't harm the environment.

I find a lot of people go around saying 'hyoomans are horrible' without realising the utter potential humans represent as indeed do all species.

Rankin · Vociferator Joined: 03 Jan 2004 Posts: 727

..this is why we can't have nice things!

Damn it. I seem to have missed the guts and glory - I must admit that seeing Donny's old vomit-retxching pictures make me grimace, Miguel's intellecualizing the basis of someone wanting to have sex with their personal represntation of purity, love, or whatever the fuck it is just sealed it - when he was "dismissed" with merely a (try not to use euphemisms here) flagrant insult, I was a bit disappointed.

Regardless, I spent the evening scavenging parts to build the 80 year old next door lady a computer so she can email her children and grandchildren.

No offense, guys, but after being away from here, and all aspects of the fandom, pro, or con - both start looking pretty damned loony for bothering. Still, I guess people need hobbies, and some choose to walk there pets, the others, fuck them. Meh.

Rankin · Vociferator Joined: 03 Jan 2004 Posts: 727

Believe me, wolves only look cool until they bare their fangs. Those creatures are vicious, souless abominations fit only to consume other creatures and wouldn't give a second thought to biting your hand off after freeing one from a trap. Just ask any wildlife official if you don't believe me.

I hate to take any side here, but if I was stuck in a fucking trap and you came to 'help', I'd probably lash out as well. Regardless, this is a rather broad, baiting statement, and aren't we above such things?

(There, I took the bait. I wanna see your followup. ;) )

DA · Vociferator Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 355

No other animal kills off an entire species, driving it to extinction. An environmental disaster like a meteor... a volcano exploding... or an ice age might. If you have an example to prove that an animal species other than man has driven a species to extinction then please show me your reference. Thanks :)

Before human beings came along and started factory farming, methane emissions were in balance. Because humans concentrate livestock and they themselves have now far exceeded their sustainable population for the resources available to them, methane is indeed worrisome.

I'm glad there is some love in you, at least.

http://www.paradisepark.org.uk/conserv/redsquirrels.htm <---red squirrel totter on verge of extinction thanks to the grey.

In Hawaii the Nene goose is dying off because of the mongoose, admittedly though that is because some idiot human decided to introduce the mongoose to control the rat population forgetting mongooses hunt during the day and the rats are active during the night.

The manatee are struggling because of their low reproduction rates.

http://www.nhptv.org/natureworks/nwep16.htm source for the above.

Comment
It may well have been better for many individual native animals who have been subjected to unnecessary predation if cats had never been introduced to Australia. But the global ecosystem is a system in constant flux, even without the influence of industrialised humans. It may not now possible to remove cats - or other introduced animals - from the Australian ecosystem without doing far more harm than good.

Taken from

http://www.animalsaustralia.org/default2.asp?idL1=1274&idL2=1310

Also another theory for Dinosaur extinction is that perhaps they were somehow wiped out by their own interactions.

The point I'm trying to get at is that humans are not the sole species to wipeout others, it doesn't mean it's any more justifiable but to the earth it's probably not as important as most people make out.

Also methane was hardly in balance, you ever seen what happens when a volcano chain goes up? Hawaii isn't called the endangered species capital of the world for no good reason. One good eruption and say goodbye to a couple of species probably. Volcano's contrate methane, also the huge herds that used to roam the american savannah probably produced the same amount as the cows that now take their place.

You know people just get my back up once they start jumping up and down and screaming hyoomans are horrible. Especially when with a little research any idiot knows that globally anything we do could have been done by any species if they had evolved along the same lines and some is done by species regardless of evolution.

Zeis Montero · Apocrisiary Joined: 16 Mar 2004 Posts: 50

And don't forget about the pandas. They're becoming extinct not just because people are cutting down bamboo forests, but because they're very very choosy about when they fuck.

As for me, I wouldn't even bother shooting wolves from an airplane. I'd just drop some nape on the whole area!

m_estrugo · Prattler Joined: 13 Nov 2003 Posts: 189

As I type this, there are 166 replies on this thread. We've counted with the amusing presence of a Snowolf and the very same Ebonlupus, a person who has posted -30- times in only 36 hours or so of activity.

What have I learned of this?

I've learned that there's no real philosophy or reasoning behind the behavior of the person behind Ebonlupus, Mr. James Greathouse. He had the chance time after time to explain his position and reasonings and he systematically eluded any critical questions by closing himself on his supposed superiority. I say -supposed- superiority because the only thing he's doing is feigning it, -acting- like he's superior, trying to make his opponent feel inferior to him, because, in fact, there is nothing at all to demonstrate that superiority. In other words, this individual is manifestating delusions of grandeur.

Reading some of the replies Mr. Greathouse has given to this thread, you can find traces of his behavior. Far beyond that mask of self-sufficience he tries to wear while he posts on this thread, it seems it's evident that Mr. Greathouse has constant mood swings, as the tone of his posts seem to indicate. Sometimes, he feel indestructible to fall in a pit of self-pity a couple of posts later and lament on how sad is life and how evil human being are and the stuff.

Even if 30 posts aren't enough to do an exaustive analysis, and I lack the academical preparation to give an accurate diagnosis, mr. Greathouse seems to suffer a severe case of schizoaffective disorder.
It's useless trying to reason with him. His perception of reality is strongly deformed by his delusions, and his position defies logics or a reasonable explanation, since it's materially impossible to defend.
It seems that his mental illness will worsen with time and will ruin his life even more. He could search for a cure, but only in the case he realized he's ill and needs help. In order to do that, he'd need the care and support of relatives and familiars to help him change his mentality.

Ladies and gentlemen, I don't think it's fair to poke fun of Ebonlupus. I also thinlk it's impossible to reason with him, or even understand him. Offering help thru an illusional means like the Internet is useless. All we can do is watch how Ebonlupus gets lost in the intrincacy of his own mind.

Kadius · Venter Joined: 10 Feb 2004 Posts: 254

Estrugo, you put it so much more eloquently than me. :)

Donotsue · Venter Joined: 17 Jan 2004 Posts: 209

Oh no.. What will happen to my red squirrel spirit now?
It'll never get into the right body if reds go extinct! =)

DA · Vociferator Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 355

I'm supposedly mentally sick and unstable but I still manage to live a normal life, I'm sure some of the stuff I get up to behind the scenes would shock some of the people here (it's less weirder than 90% of furry but it's still weird by most peoples standards and it's definitely not as weird as anything Ebon does) I suppose the differences is between knowing you're fucked up and actually accepting people won't accept it and so keeping it private and actually parading around that fucked-up ness and expecting people to not only understand but fully agree. That and my weirdness harms no-one not even me and that can be proved, whereas Ebon's is potentially harming his 'companions' except that can't be proved one way or the other. Which any sane person would accept and err on the side of caution, if there is a potential it's wrong then perhaps it's not a great idea to do it.

The point is, being fucked up is one thing, when you start affecting others with it is a bad thing, That and I've heard the same sad reasoning from people who have been harming someone/something with their abnormality's as I've heard from Ebon lupus and crew. You can justify anything and you can especially convince yourself anything is normal and healthy if you want to, the capacity of humans to self-delude is incredible.

That and I don't have any respect for any 'artist' who isn't up front about how they create their work and who doesn't credit sources.

Donotsue · Venter Joined: 17 Jan 2004 Posts: 209

Dogthing · Venter Joined: 26 Oct 2003 Posts: 257

Praytell "Dogthing" how have I been hypocritical?

Oh, and note that the Discovery Channel rather well enjoys telling only facts, whereas your post prior to your last in which you'd said they like to slay whelps and whatnot was based on lies that have been propogated by those whom hate and distrust wolves for whatever reasons they hold.

And what you'd said is not fact, and thus I cannot and refuse to, believe any of that garbage you spewed forth was from the Discovery Channel or any such group. :)

Jesus, how stupid are you? You're hypocritical because the only way you have any ability to fancy yourself as something that you are not is by being human. You say you have the "SPIRIT OF WOLF GHURR" when you are merely falling victim to an all-too-common human behaviour, which is pretense. Rabbits do not pretend to be bears, pigs do not pretend to be dogs, and flies do not pretend to be rats. Wolves do not pretend to be human. Pretending to be someone or something else is a solely human trait. Believing it is a disease.

That you like to think of yourself as a fancy-schmancy noble wolf spirit totem happy doggy wolf whatever is proof of your being a prime example of human vileness and self-deceit. You are a hypocrite because you claim to be not human, when, in fact, you are OVERWHELMINGLY human through the simple process of pretense. Now why don't you take my advice and grow up a little bit? You're probably a bit too old to playing pretend.

MagKnightX · Prattler Joined: 04 Dec 2003 Posts: 196

Oh, this thread reminds me:

People who pretend they are wolves are dumbasses.

The New Meat · Vociferator Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 403

I lived that way for six years until my health failed. I would live that way now if I could... bad genetics beyond my control.

While I'll give you some credit for at least trying to live like an OMG REAL WOLFIE, you do realize what a complate fucking cop-out this is, right? No wolf - or any animal for that matter - gets to excuse itself from this nasty brutish dog-eat-dog dodgeball game of survival and sit on the sidelines just because it has "bad genetics." No, in the wild, you see, if you have bad genetics, then you just die. Nothing to be done, that's just the way it is. You may have spent a few years dancing naked through fields, but all you've proven is that ultimately you couldn't cut it as an animal. If you want to be an animal, the first thing you have to lose is the human belief* that your life is somehow more important than any other creatures' and thus that you deserve some kind of get out of jail free card whenever Mother Nature drops shit on you.

* Okay, yeah, I'm sure animals sorta think this, as far as animals can think, but you know what I mean.

edit: Oh, and not having claws is a fucking lame excuse for using a gun. If you want to live as an animal, eat fucking berries and pinecones.

(Sorry if someone's already addressed this point, but, c'mon, this thread is like twelve pages. Cut me some slack if I missed something.)

Snowolf · Qualificator Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

Poor children.. I pitty you all for being so blind to the world and to the way life is.. Perhaps one day (doubtful however) your minds will mature to a point that you may understand that not everybody shares the same opinions as yourself.. and hopefully at which point you will understand that your life will never be whole so long as you constantly fight and atempt to suppress that which you do not wholely agree with.

As for animals being killed out by other animals:
The panda: Granted they are picky with when and whom they mate, however they have lived their lives in such a way for many hundreds of years and only recently, with mankinds foolish actions have they started to decline.
The red squirrel: The gray squirrel may indeed be the leading cause of death for the red squirrel at this time, however if it wasn't for mankind the gray squirrel (which was in the past even kept as a pet) wouldn't have quite so large a range. Mankind has spread it's territory into that of the red squirrel. They had their own territories that remained constant long before man came to fuck things up.
The manatee: It's numbers have never been large, the only known predator of the manatee is man and if they survived this long, then mankind and their boats are solely to blame for their decline.

As for the chimpanzee's or whatnot, they're damn close to humans, I'd not call them non-human and I'd not put it past them to whipe out another species.. I'd actually think that for most monkies (which i call humans as well). :)

Rankin, I'd have to agree, any wolf caught in a trap is going to be rather upset, even upon being freed and will likely attack the one who free's it out of fear more than hate. If a Wolf is caught in a trap, that's the same as being cornered, and if he/she cannot run, then there leaves one option..

DA, perhaps you should stop thinking as if we're children and realize that we don't type ALL that we know. Ebon and I have long researched things about the destructive habits of humanity as have many other people and if you were to look (and I mean seriously look) you would find a good deal of data from what you likely would be willing to consider "respectable" sources about how badly humans have fucked the world over. Do you think any other animal would have decided to strip-mine for rocks? How about pump decayed matter from the earth to burn it? Or pile mountains of waste that will not decompose into small areas? Or how about making bombs that whipe out all life in a localized area or nuclear reactors that can melt down and render a large area totally unliveable for all sentient life? - Alright, those are the bads, not all of them to be sure, but that's a few of the worst. I won't say there arn't some good things.. humans have at least learned that some of the shit they do does cause harm and work at undoing a bit of it. Active recycling programs are what I would consider one of their best achievements yet.. However as far as the world is concerend, humanity brings all life two or more steps closer to total destruction, and recycling brings it one step back, if even that..

Mentioned above was the idea that Ebon Lupus hasn't said how he makes his art, yet I have read a number of posts from him on what he does, as well as have I spoken with him and told you his steps myself. Yet still you all wish to believe he manipulated a photograph or such and that he should be crediting the one who took the photograph. I could point out that someone took and cropped a pup from his image and posted it on here beside the original pup, yet they themselves did not credit either the photograph's creator OR Ebon Lupus, as such that is against the law and while Ebon has every right at this point to take legal action, I doubt he will but advise that each here think before they act.

You may call me a hypocrite for believing as I do, but it is part of my heritage, something my people have long believed. So you calling me crazy, mentally ill, a hypocrite, what-have-you, means nothing to me. They are but words, and I am not hurt by them. Your words simply show how young and immature your minds are; how insecure, sheltered and afraid of those who are different than you.. You can say it is sick, or wrong, or that I'm going to hell, but in the end it all boils down to you fearing what you do not know or understand. Speak lies and see half truths all you'd like, I and Ebon are still here, and at our backs are hundreds more, we have always been here, and we always will be. Your petty half-truths and insults have done nothing but defame yourselves.

I cannot say this forum, or at least this thread, hasn't brought me a few long hard laughs the last few days, it has also brought me a few tears at how closed minded and self-centered many of you are. However I find the time I've wasted here, trying to shead light on shadow and teach full truths instead of half ones, could have been better put to use elsewhere on things that make a difference in the world. Thank you to those whom have read this and remained neutral, or read it and understood Ebon Lupus' or my viewpoints yet not said anything to keep from getting into the fire. An extra thank you to those who did post and were civil and calm, holding open hearts and minds and were willing to at least "atempt" to see through the eyes of others and not simply say "My way is right and yours is wrong."

I wish you all no ill will. I hope you can one day see through open eyes.

do' da da go' hv i

The New Meat · Vociferator Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 403

Poor children.. I pitty you all for being so blind to the world and to the way life is.. Perhaps one day (doubtful however) your minds will mature to a point that you may understand that not everybody shares the same opinions as yourself.. and hopefully at which point you will understand that your life will never be whole so long as you constantly fight and atempt to suppress that which you do not wholely agree with.

As for animals being killed out by other animals:
The panda: Granted they are picky with when and whom they mate, however they have lived their lives in such a way for many hundreds of years and only recently, with mankinds foolish actions have they started to decline.
The red squirrel: The gray squirrel may indeed be the leading cause of death for the red squirrel at this time, however if it wasn't for mankind the gray squirrel (which was in the past even kept as a pet) wouldn't have quite so large a range. Mankind has spread it's territory into that of the red squirrel. They had their own territories that remained constant long before man came to fuck things up.
The manatee: It's numbers have never been large, the only known predator of the manatee is man and if they survived this long, then mankind and their boats are solely to blame for their decline.

As for the chimpanzee's or whatnot, they're damn close to humans, I'd not call them non-human and I'd not put it past them to whipe out another species.. I'd actually think that for most monkies (which i call humans as well). :)

Rankin, I'd have to agree, any wolf caught in a trap is going to be rather upset, even upon being freed and will likely attack the one who free's it out of fear more than hate. If a Wolf is caught in a trap, that's the same as being cornered, and if he/she cannot run, then there leaves one option..

DA, perhaps you should stop thinking as if we're children and realize that we don't type ALL that we know. Ebon and I have long researched things about the destructive habits of humanity as have many other people and if you were to look (and I mean seriously look) you would find a good deal of data from what you likely would be willing to consider "respectable" sources about how badly humans have fucked the world over. Do you think any other animal would have decided to strip-mine for rocks? How about pump decayed matter from the earth to burn it? Or pile mountains of waste that will not decompose into small areas? Or how about making bombs that whipe out all life in a localized area or nuclear reactors that can melt down and render a large area totally unliveable for all sentient life? - Alright, those are the bads, not all of them to be sure, but that's a few of the worst. I won't say there arn't some good things.. humans have at least learned that some of the shit they do does cause harm and work at undoing a bit of it. Active recycling programs are what I would consider one of their best achievements yet.. However as far as the world is concerend, humanity brings all life two or more steps closer to total destruction, and recycling brings it one step back, if even that..

Mentioned above was the idea that Ebon Lupus hasn't said how he makes his art, yet I have read a number of posts from him on what he does, as well as have I spoken with him and told you his steps myself. Yet still you all wish to believe he manipulated a photograph or such and that he should be crediting the one who took the photograph. I could point out that someone took and cropped a pup from his image and posted it on here beside the original pup, yet they themselves did not credit either the photograph's creator OR Ebon Lupus, as such that is against the law and while Ebon has every right at this point to take legal action, I doubt he will but advise that each here think before they act.

You may call me a hypocrite for believing as I do, but it is part of my heritage, something my people have long believed. So you calling me crazy, mentally ill, a hypocrite, what-have-you, means nothing to me. They are but words, and I am not hurt by them. Your words simply show how young and immature your minds are; how insecure, sheltered and afraid of those who are different than you.. You can say it is sick, or wrong, or that I'm going to hell, but in the end it all boils down to you fearing what you do not know or understand. Speak lies and see half truths all you'd like, I and Ebon are still here, and at our backs are hundreds more, we have always been here, and we always will be. Your petty half-truths and insults have done nothing but defame yourselves.

I cannot say this forum, or at least this thread, hasn't brought me a few long hard laughs the last few days, it has also brought me a few tears at how closed minded and self-centered many of you are. However I find the time I've wasted here, trying to shead light on shadow and teach full truths instead of half ones, could have been better put to use elsewhere on things that make a difference in the world. Thank you to those whom have read this and remained neutral, or read it and understood Ebon Lupus' or my viewpoints yet not said anything to keep from getting into the fire. An extra thank you to those who did post and were civil and calm, holding open hearts and minds and were willing to at least "atempt" to see through the eyes of others and not simply say "My way is right and yours is wrong."

I wish you all no ill will. I hope you can one day see through open eyes.

do' da da go' hv i

Kadius · Venter Joined: 10 Feb 2004 Posts: 254

Poor children.. I pitty you all for being so blind to the world and to the way life is..

lolz "I pity u cuz u don haev a wolf spirit and think ur a hyooman!!1onethree"

I cannot say this forum, or at least this thread, hasn't brought me a few long hard laughs the last few days, it has also brought me a few tears at how closed minded and self-centered many of you are. However I find the time I've wasted here, trying to shead light on shadow and teach full truths instead of half ones, could have been better put to use elsewhere on things that make a difference in the world.

So the attempt to convert us all to wolfism failed? OH NOS. And uhm, I believe everyone here has a better grasp of reality than you or Ebon do. But again, if you wish to delude yourself and live in your fantasy world, be my guest.

Edit: New Meat beat me to it. ): And yes, it does make baby Jesus cry.

Vitae · Recusant Joined: 13 Apr 2004 Posts: 4

humans are just about the ugliest things on earth; on every level

(pretty pictures from Zen)

How could one possibly argue with such lovely pictures? Are humans STILL ugly to you, Ebon?
If so, I'm sorry.. I pity you.. and I don't pity easily.
:roll:

Vitae · Recusant Joined: 13 Apr 2004 Posts: 4

humans are neither inherently bad nor good, they simply are just like any other species.

I disagree. Poluting the environment with toxic things no other animal produces and driving entire species to extinction makes them differnt.

In my humble opinion, we.. Humans, are the dominate species. We can do as we see fit to OUR planet.
In my humble opinion, this is OUR planet. If we see fit to destroy it in a mass of toxic waste and pollution.. SO BE IT!
It's our destiny, we are the only ones who can control it.
This, however, as I said, is my... humble... opinion.
Why am I stating it?

...because, I can.

Do I expect anyone to change their opinion?
No.

However, stating it, gets it off my chest.

Kadius · Venter Joined: 10 Feb 2004 Posts: 254

Warning: Gruesome pictures.

You know, I just thought of something.

Why bother protesting:

When you should be protesting things like:

It just doesn't compare.

MagKnightX · Prattler Joined: 04 Dec 2003 Posts: 196

BECAUSE KADEEUS DONT YUO KNOW WOLVESES ARE BETTTER THAN TEH HYUOOMENS!!!!@

Gene Ternruh · Recusant Joined: 10 Mar 2004 Posts: 18

It's pronounced "EWW-MANS"

I MEAN DUH.

Genghis · Venter Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 214

o hay vitae

Anything interesting come of that dramafast on your journal? You know, the one where postvixen, xydexx and crew started lambasting you for daring to suggest that some of the fandom are less than perfect? And that being an SA member is somehow BETRAYING TEH NOBLE FURRE?

Paul · Venter Joined: 01 Feb 2004 Posts: 215

Mentioned above was the idea that Ebon Lupus hasn't said how he makes his art, yet I have read a number of posts from him on what he does, as well as have I spoken with him and told you his steps myself. Yet still you all wish to believe he manipulated a photograph or such and that he should be crediting the one who took the photograph. I could point out that someone took and cropped a pup from his image and posted it on here beside the original pup, yet they themselves did not credit either the photograph's creator OR Ebon Lupus, as such that is against the law and while Ebon has every right at this point to take legal action, I doubt he will but advise that each here think before they act.

You need to work on your threats, because they're as inept as your insults. What I did was post an excerpt for the purpose of critique, which is the one perfectly legal way you can publish something without prior permission.

Also, I like how you shot both yourself and Ebon in the foot by referring to the cub in the photo as "the original pup", even though you've tried to convince us that no paintover or photo manipulation was used to create Ebon's exactly matching cub.

Wayd Wolf · Vociferator Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 522

Wow. This thread has added absolutely nothing to my day, my life, or my spirit.

What an achievement.

No, just kidding.

It's no sort of achievement at all.

But I was serious about it adding nothing.

DA · Vociferator Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 355

I am amused, you know I feel quite sorry for both Ebon and Snowolf, I have dealt with the utmost evil one human can do to another, I am scarred from head to toe, inside and out, yet I can still look around me and see potential and hope something they cannot and will not feel.

Come both of you, live my life, you wouldn't survive it. Because you don't have the hope that enabled me to survive when death tried to call me home so many times.

When you've done that you can then spout about close mindedness and about how evil humans are. Because I've seen the darkest pits of humanity and yet still know how to look for the potential.

Dogthing · Venter Joined: 26 Oct 2003 Posts: 257

Poor children.. I pitty you all for being so blind to the world and to the way life is.. Perhaps one day (doubtful however) your minds will mature to a point that you may unders

AGDHGAGHDAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH
DFAHGDHADGHAGDBHEGVYEDBVKURGKBV

Vitae · Recusant Joined: 13 Apr 2004 Posts: 4

o hay vitae

Anything interesting come of that dramafast on your journal? You know, the one where postvixen, xydexx and crew started lambasting you for daring to suggest that some of the fandom are less than perfect? And that being an SA member is somehow BETRAYING TEH NOBLE FURRE?

Nah, went ahead and made a new journal, get away from that bullshit.. blah-dee-blah.
You're still welcome to read it if you like, it's in my sig.

Rankin · Vociferator Joined: 03 Jan 2004 Posts: 727

Which one's who again?

Quantum Coyote · Coadjutor Joined: 12 May 2004 Posts: 89

Donotsue Wrote:

Oh no.. What will happen to my red squirrel spirit now?
It'll never get into the right body if reds go extinct! =)

Then its the Naked Mole Rat for you!

MagKnightX · Prattler Joined: 04 Dec 2003 Posts: 196

I nominate this topic for the award of "A topic."

Charisma · Prattler Joined: 03 Jan 2004 Posts: 163

13 pages worth of this already? This is what happens when I have to go to work at the weekend. poo.

Even though this thread is obviously getting a bit silly, I just have to ask this...

Why a wolf?
Isn't that a bit conveiniant? Isn't that a bit good?
I've heard of people that even believed they were tigers, but why not a catterpillar spirit? Why not a naked mole rat (nicely pictured above!)?
.....Maybe because they're not very APPEALING things to be.

Or, Ebon Lupus, if you're still reading this, are you a rare exception?

MagKnightX · Prattler Joined: 04 Dec 2003 Posts: 196

Maybe he just figures because he's randy for Rover, he's really one of them.

Rankin · Vociferator Joined: 03 Jan 2004 Posts: 727

Why a wolf?
Isn't that a bit conveiniant? Isn't that a bit good?
I've heard of people that even believed they were tigers, but why not a catterpillar spirit? Why not a naked mole rat (nicely pictured above!)?
.....Maybe because they're not very APPEALING things to be.

Or, Ebon Lupus, if you're still reading this, are you a rare exception?

It's because wolves are charismatic, omnious, and, let's face it - they look cool. They can be vicious, yet appear so cute and fuzzy - all of the documentaries we've seen have taught us over the years a bit of respect for these wild doggies.

Of course, it's convieniant - it's something virtually everyone's capable of knowing at least some aspects of.

The reason that fewer folk are the uglier animals is that the entire point of self-delusion is the fact of delusion itself. There's quite a bit more grandure in thinking you could be a 'leader of the pack', rather than some whiny old cable guy, or some slob who likes to watch dogs screw, and wants to join in.

Donotsue · Venter Joined: 17 Jan 2004 Posts: 209

Mahn.. that molerat is HOT! =)

Rankin · Vociferator Joined: 03 Jan 2004 Posts: 727

Mahn.. that molerat is HOT! =)

"Bill, your mom is hot!"
"Shut up, Ted!"

'sup, Donny? Long time, no see!

Dogthing · Venter Joined: 26 Oct 2003 Posts: 257

'sup, Donny? Long time, no see!

Why don't you ever talk to me anymore rankin :cry:

Rankin · Vociferator Joined: 03 Jan 2004 Posts: 727

'sup, Donny? Long time, no see!

Why don't you ever talk to me anymore rankin :cry:

Because you're always underfoot! You, and... and your pink thing!

Awww. Don't cry... come here. Sit on daddy's lap and give him a wet smooch. That's a boy!

Ok... have we had enough faggotry in this thread to close it yet?

Quatrewolf · Qualificator Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 39

you've not only put forth an opinion that is a bit quirky, but followed it up with one that is likely to be insulting to your listener.

I agree,he did not listen to my last reply,did he?*shakes head*

He addressed everyones (including mine) except ZenZu's comment as same old shit.

Ebon? You say your open to discussion..but you ignored mine when I wasn't picking on you. How is that?

Please explain if your still here?