Crush...Yiff...Destroy!

Michael Hirtes · Vociferator Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 612

You may have heard about the sad case of turn-of-the-century artist Louis Wain, who was famous for his paintings of cats in anthropomorphic settings (sort of an Edwardian-era Ken Mitcheroney).

But then, things took a turn for the worse. Mr. Wain had developed schizophrenia, and as the disease took it's toll, his paintings became more and more disturbing.

Watch the tragedy unfold before your very eyes:

A typical example of his pre-insanity period.

Then, as the disorder first began to rear it's ugly head:

Eventually, he went totally Smeagol and his corrosion was complete:

I put this before you in asking if this case may be a good example of how furry fandom started out as a quirky hobby about "funny animals", only to degenerate into a nightmarish dungeon of the mind?

Skunkfuckers Inc. · Prattler Joined: 20 Jan 2004 Posts: 159

I put this before you in asking if this case may be a good example of how furry fandom started out as a quirky hobby about "funny animals", only to degenerate into a nightmarish dungeon of the mind?

WTF (seriously this time), that has nothing to do with furry. As much as we may joke about furries being crazy, schizophrenia is an actual physiological disorder, a chemical imbalance in the brain. The change in his work has no parallels to any shift in anthropmorphic art as a whole over the years.

The only question posed is "if this guy had lived today, what position would he be in". Aside from the fact that having access to modern medicine would have no doubt saved him a lot of personal turmoil, would he have turned into a furry fucktard? Or would he have become another embittered 'anti-furry'? Or possibly might he have never even encountered furries at all, and ended up working for an ad agency or Disney or something?

There are just too many what-if's in there for me, but I will say his work is very good; he could have done more with it, instead of wasting away like that. That said, though his art was obviously affected due to his increasing mental instability, the change could have been just as radical had he not gone insane. There are other artists that have shifted focus that much over time.

EDIT: Someone might get away with using it as a metaphor, depending on your definition of the word, but any intelligent person would probably see it as an undeserved slap in the face to Louis Wain and his artwork.

To put in perspective, how many here -still living and able to defend themselves- could say that they've been unjustly associated with furries and their 'fandom', simply for being amongst the wrong group of fans at the wrong time?

MagKnightX · Prattler Joined: 04 Dec 2003 Posts: 196

Watch the tragedy unfold before your very eyes:

A typical example of his pre-insanity period.

Dude, that cat should, like, totally have six tits. With dicknipples. Oh! Oh! And a huge, pulsing cock. Oh, and make me into wolf okay

Eventually, he went totally Smeagol and his corrosion was complete:

Those are the coolest pictures of cats I have ever seen. That's so... trippy.

Ebonyleopard · Coadjutor Joined: 15 Sep 2004 Posts: 92

You may have heard about the sad case of turn-of-the-century artist Louis Wain, who was famous for his paintings of cats in anthropomorphic settings (sort of an Edwardian-era Ken Mitcheroney).

But then, things took a turn for the worse. Mr. Wain had developed schizophrenia, and as the disease took it's toll, his paintings became more and more disturbing.

Watch the tragedy unfold before your very eyes:

I put this before you in asking if this case may be a good example of how furry fandom started out as a quirky hobby about "funny animals", only to degenerate into a nightmarish dungeon of the mind?

I suppose it all depends on if a person thinks that furry has ever been anything but a quirky hobby about funny animals. The idea and concept of what 'furry fandom' is, seems to be totally dependent on the individuals mindset. So long as people think it's a "nightmarish dungeon of the mind" then that is all that person will ever see and they will only seek out things in it that justify those beliefs. Somewhat like a selffulling prophecy.

If you think, okay, it's got it's wierd people in it, but so do most fannish things (Like, the fact that Star Trek fans just got national attention on Conan O'Brain, because someone it it was paying women to take nude pictures done up as Klingons), but in general it's the media and materials produced in it I'm interested in, then you'll not have much problem.

I still say, just from observation, the big problem with much of the negative response I see here has a great deal to do with how things out there on the west coast went with those conventions and the people who ran them back in early 90s late 80s. Since many people's I guess inital exposure to the fandom from a live action point of view came from those west coast cons, then the way those people ran those cons is what is burnt most in their minds. It's said cons follow the flavor of the people who decide to put them together.

And the media attention to the fandom has always come out of the west, where over the top sensationalism is the flavor of the month, so they're just going to look for the most crazy thing in what they report. (I mean, afterall Jimmy Kimble had to hire people to go around and do stuff at that one con he reported on, so obviously that con wasn't "WEIRD" enough to make it worth reporting on on its own).

As to Wain, I like his art, particularly the later years. Reminds me of how Van Gogh's art dramatically changed as he started to mentally decline. It's almost like they become more creative the further they slip into their disorder.

Paul · Venter Joined: 01 Feb 2004 Posts: 215

I agree with Skunkfuckers Inc. - too many what ifs. Wain was working in a long-established tradition of putting animals in human situations. Lots of artists have done that. Most artists, also today, who make anthropomorphic art, have nothing to do with furrydumb (even though furries would certainly like to claim those artists as closet furries or something).

Ebonyleopard · Coadjutor Joined: 15 Sep 2004 Posts: 92

I agree with Skunkfuckers Inc. - too many what ifs. Wain was working in a long-established tradition of putting animals in human situations. Lots of artists have done that. Most artists, also today, who make anthropomorphic art, have nothing to do with furrydumb (even though furries would certainly like to claim those artists as closet furries or something).

One thing I learned when I went to Chicago Wizardworld and had my work critiqued, it doesn't matter if you do stuff using animals with the intent of being furry or not, you're still going to be perceived even by non-furries as being furry, so it's a generic term folks mind as well get used to.

It's HOW you do what you do that matters. Was crtiqued by Aspen Comic and got very good reviews on the work. One critquer even laughed at the fact that the animals were well drawn enough for them to actually recognize what animal (a ferret in this case) was supposed to be.

She did at first ask before looking at it, knowing it was 'furry' art, "Is this okay to look at?" It's breaking down those preconceived notions that furry is all about adult stuff that has to take place, like anime had to go through.

As to Wain, I like his later art really more than his earlier.

SLaitila · Prattler Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 165

http://www.kajstenvall.com/

Finnish, and awesome.

Paul · Venter Joined: 01 Feb 2004 Posts: 215

I agree with Skunkfuckers Inc. - too many what ifs. Wain was working in a long-established tradition of putting animals in human situations. Lots of artists have done that. Most artists, also today, who make anthropomorphic art, have nothing to do with furrydumb (even though furries would certainly like to claim those artists as closet furries or something).

One thing I learned when I went to Chicago Wizardworld and had my work critiqued, it doesn't matter if you do stuff using animals with the intent of being furry or not, you're still going to be perceived even by non-furries as being furry, so it's a generic term folks mind as well get used to.

Well, Chicago Wizardworld is for "insiders" who know about the various little fandoms - furry, superhero, trekkies, whatever. "Ordinary" people don't have that knowledge or that frame of reference. Disney movies with animal characters aren't made by furries, and probably 99% of the audience aren't furries either. To most people "furry" simply means covered with fur, and "furries" is a non-existing term. Maybe your comic somehow, by content or distribution, has acquired a large audience of furries, so naturally that audience will say, "oh, Shawntae Howard's a furry artist". But if your audience consisted overwhelmingly of "ordinary" folks it would be different. Nobody claims Michael Fry and T Lewis are furries because they make Over the Hedge.

It's HOW you do what you do that matters. Was crtiqued by Aspen Comic and got very good reviews on the work. One critquer even laughed at the fact that the animals were well drawn enough for them to actually recognize what animal (a ferret in this case) was supposed to be.

She did at first ask before looking at it, knowing it was 'furry' art, "Is this okay to look at?" It's breaking down those preconceived notions that furry is all about adult stuff that has to take place, like anime had to go through.

Again, that was only because she knew of the grotty reputation of furry fandom. In the French and Belgian comics world, there's no such thing as furries, so there, funny animal comics (not furry comics!) get treated like just one of many perfectly ordinary aspects of how comics can be made.

In the final analysis, I'd say furry fandom has done more bad than good to the art it was once built around.

mouse · Vociferator Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 740

You may have heard about the sad case of turn-of-the-century artist Louis Wain, who was famous for his paintings of cats in anthropomorphic settings (sort of an Edwardian-era Ken Mitcheroney).

Then, as the disorder first began to rear it's ugly head:

I like all his stuff that I've seen..all of it. Even the crazy shit. Actually those right in the middle ones are pretty cool. Id like big posters of those hehe.

Cassius Marcellus Coolidge did the same sort of work... roughly the same time period too - except with dogs. (the 'Dogs Playing Poker' was this guy, and he did a bunch of other stuff similiar.)

Those are the coolest pictures of cats I have ever seen. That's so... trippy.

The cool thing is Wain didn't need LSD and acid-rock to create those either :)

Come to think to think of it.. Id like to travel back in time and hang out with Wain when he was doing stuff like this..just for a day :lol:

Shmeckopolis · Prattler Joined: 31 Mar 2004 Posts: 140

I've heard of this guy before. His work was in an art book back when I was in school, actually. It's still neat to watch the mental degression through his work.

....Except now that last one will forever remind me of Meatwad on pills....

Michael Hirtes · Vociferator Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 612

I've heard of this guy before. His work was in an art book back when I was in school, actually. It's still neat to watch the mental degression through his work.

....Except now that last one will forever remind me of Meatwad on pills....

Ah, so you caught that too, huh? I was saddened to not see one post about that at rec.arts.animation (the uncultured heathens <g>).

Rankin · Vociferator Joined: 03 Jan 2004 Posts: 727

Those are some rather amazing pictures. The later geometric cats...brrr. They elict a bit of fear in this ol' boy.

ZenZhu · Vociferator Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 669

I think the real lesson here, kiddies, is that even a schizophrenic old man can produce better art than your average VCL-ite.

I learned another lesson here, too. I was surfing Google's image search for "furry" to find a picture to post (since VCL doesn't allow image linking and I was too lazy to save an image and post it elsewhere so I could have it show up in the message) to imply Wain's stuff PWNS about 95% of what's on VCL. In my search, I found this:

(This was from a home-made bikini contest at the Hog's Breath Saloon in Key West, FL. She is, of course, done up as a hog.)

Maybe if more fursuiters were like this babe, and less like some beardy Virgina ham crammed into Daphne the Daffy Herm Slutpuppy costume, furry cons would be a place to party with the cast of The Man Show, rather than something derided by The Man Show.

Maybe that's what's needed to save the fandom... more babeilicious women in skimpy animal costumes. Maybe that would drive away the pervy geeks that are afraid to be within 50 ft. of a real woman, the bears and bois that despise anything with a vagina, and the "misplaced animal spirits" that won't hump anything with less than 4 legs. At least if there were more babes like this on the con floor, skimpy outfits and spontaneous displays of BDSM would be a GOOD thing. :)

Maybe that's what's wrong with the fandom... not that there's too many pervs... but that there's too many obese, disgusting pervs that wouldn't know what to do with a real woman if she crawled in their lap and said "Take me now!" :D

"Where? I'm low on gas, and you need a sweater."

Shmeckopolis · Prattler Joined: 31 Mar 2004 Posts: 140

He did a particularly bizarre one that caught my eye. Thought I'd share it.

I take it this was before the geometric cats, but post koo-koo.

The New Meat · Vociferator Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 403

That cat with the monocle looks like it should be a macro about..uh..something.

Rankin · Vociferator Joined: 03 Jan 2004 Posts: 727

He did a particularly bizarre one that caught my eye. Thought I'd share it.

I take it this was before the geometric cats, but post koo-koo.

If memory serves, this one is entitled something like "I'm a bit off myself", which I take to be him knowing that he's fucked in the head.

Michael Hirtes · Vociferator Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 612

He did a particularly bizarre one that caught my eye. Thought I'd share it.

I take it this was before the geometric cats, but post koo-koo.

If memory serves, this one is entitled something like "I'm a bit off myself", which I take to be him knowing that he's fucked in the head.

The drawing he did on the flipside of that same sheet certainly didn't leave any doubts.

Rankin · Vociferator Joined: 03 Jan 2004 Posts: 727

The drawing he did on the flipside of that same sheet certainly didn't leave any doubts.

Whoa. His inner demons wanted him to admit to being a dog person, but his fame created by cats had nurtured him to this point... Tsk. Poor boy. :wink:

Wayd Wolf · Vociferator Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 522

Yeah, it could be a metaphor. Especially if you believe that people interacting can be akin to a larger version of interacting neurons in a single mind. That is, the interaction and synergy between people in a society can be akin to a hive mind. Furry could then be said to be something that for whatever the internal fine grain reasons has behaved like a singular individual gone absolutely skitzo and MPD.

Problem is, the equivalent of the necessary meds would be smacking sense into well over five thousand people, de-virginizing about half forcibly, and monitoring their behaviour for an indefinite time to keep them from being recidivist.

More amusing is to simply watch the steady downhill slide. And since it isn't a single individual with mental illness but thousands of individuals who through their inane idiocy create the illusion of a single deranged individual, we need not feel guilty for taking pleasure in the watching.

Of course, some furries are themselves mentally ill. Anyone's guess as to the percentage. Shall we take a pool? Winner gets to buy Rankin new fuzzy slippers.

Rankin · Vociferator Joined: 03 Jan 2004 Posts: 727

Shall we take a pool? Winner gets to buy Rankin new fuzzy slippers.

I don't have any fuzzy slippers, old, or new. :(

I also can't vote, because then it'd be a conflict of interest. Bugger.

Sean · Qualificator Joined: 05 Nov 2003 Posts: 26

Problem is, the equivalent of the necessary meds would be smacking sense into well over five thousand people, de-virginizing about half forcibly...

I willingly consent to treatment.

The forced devirginizing, that is, not the smacking around bit.

::scrawls his signature in purple crayon::

comicartist42 · Recusant Joined: 11 Sep 2004 Posts: 9

I love Louis Wain. He's one of my all-time favourite artists!

The fact that he was crazy only proves that he was great, because most great artists are, like most geniuses, crazy. There's a fine line between genius and madness... Many artists just wind up crossing the line. It's something about the makeup of a mind that can create art or ideas or whatever that seems to lend itself to a lack of social skills and general eccentricity...

Okay, I'm done lending thoughtfulness to this conversation. ;)

Skunkfuckers Inc. · Prattler Joined: 20 Jan 2004 Posts: 159

Okay, I'm done lending thoughtfulness to this conversation. ;)

That's okay, you didn't.