Crush...Yiff...Destroy!

GoManVanGogh · Prattler Joined: 18 Nov 2003 Posts: 194

Maybe the problem with phurrae isn't so much the over-abundance of sex...

As it is the noticeable lack of drugs and rock & roll! :twisted:

mouse · Vociferator Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 740

Actually the problem is a lack of 'hot chicks'. If furry fandom was full of 'hot chicks' - no one would notice the bloated retards running around. There would be much better scenery to look at. And of all the geek fandoms.. furry is probably the only one that would have lots of girls. I hear girls like a man in uniform, but I don't think they meant a star trek uniform. A lot of girls like cute stuff. And whats cuter than cartoon animals ? nothin! All kinds of hot college art majors running around. It would be great. They arn't there cuz they don't like being slobbered on and accosted with grotesque commission requests.

The other problem is that furries are fucking stupid. They will draw a cartoon dog with a giant dick on a napkin and scan and upload it to thier VCL account - When they should be drawing a cute cartoon puppy holding out flowers on a napkin and giving it to that hot bartender girl with their tip. Furries I dont think have ever done anything smooth like that with any of thier mediocre talents. I would almost say its shocking, but then I realize, not really.

ZenZhu · Vociferator Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 669

I wouldn't really even say sex itself (or the presence of sexually-related materials and foci, for those that want to quibble the concept of "furry sex") in furrydom is the "problem." The sexual stuff and general freakishness in furrydom, IMO, is a problem.. if you can really call it that... more from three standpoints:

A) The continual blurring of the line between sexual kinks and fetishes and anthropomorphic characters. There is no such thing as a "furry diaper fetish," unless your fetish is diapers made of fake fur. There's diaper fetishes, and then there's furries that happen to have those fetishes. While someone may be into furries and diapers, furries and diapers really have no real correlation.

B) Furrydom's insistence that the "fandom" on the whole isn't colored by the presence of bestialists, bears 'n' cubs, hermtaurs, pulsing phalluses 3x the size of the character they're attached to, etc. I can understand the "furrydom isn't about sex" argument. But, the spoogemongers are present, visible, and there to stay. Furrydom will forever have both an adult element and a freak factor. So, why not just admit it.

C) If you're going to wear fake ears and a tail and tell people you're the displaced spirit of a dead wolf, people are going to look at you funny. Stop crying "fursecution" and carrying around a big chip on your shoulder because of it. You chose to wear the tail. You chose to reveal your "true animal nature" to them. So don't turn into a big crybaby when they call you a freak. You know damn well what you're doing is considered unconventional by most people's standards, so don't piss and moan about how unfair the world is that you decided to be a little different.

Furrydom may, in time, be able to salvage some face, but, it will pretty much forever remain a freakshow in the minds of the non-furry public. The more furries try to push "tolerance" and "acceptance" of furrydom*, the more they end up looking like bigger freaks than they are. If they were truly as okay with their "furry nature" as they claim, they could fess up to the fact that there are casual furry hobbyists, lifestylers, people deluded enough to think they're misplaced animal spirits, and folks with a whole host of fetishes congregating under one umbrella.

Between Trekkies and furries, I'll give Trekkies credit in that they've come about more to the mindset of "I'm considered a nerd and a goofball for wearing my Starfleet uniform on my wedding day... but, that's okay." Furrydom takes itself so bloody seriously, though. Y'all don't have to tell everyone you meet about your animal soul or furry lifestyle or entertainment preferences. Most people don't care until you make an issue of it.

Just, wear your ears, watch your Balto, howl at your little moon, cradle your little pangolin spirit, beat off to your hermtaur spooge, and get on with it. Furry is what furry is. Just admit it and go have yer fun an' stop trying to be all deep and misunderstood and pretending you're the gateway to some utopian mindset where humans and animals sing and dance and talk to each other and french kiss and stuff. So, people look at you funny for dressing up like a mylar cheetah. BFD. Get on with life and yer congoing and stuff.

Mouse, I refer you back to this babe from a bikini contest at the Hog's Breath Saloon.

If she was representative of your typical congoer, furry=sex would be a good thing.

*Furrydom creates some of its own problems by the militant pushing of "tolerance" and "acceptance" of furrydom. In many a furry mind, "You're furry? That's nice for you." isn't tolerant or accepting enough. "Tolerance" and suitable "acceptance" are only achieved when the party on the receiving end of this news raises the furry on some kind of pedestal for their hobby/lifestyle/whatever and gives them a pat on the head or something.

The New Meat · Vociferator Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 403

Seems to me that there actually are a lot more girls involved in furry than in other geek fandoms. Of course, most of these girls are either screaming pre-teen kawaiians ^______^ or giant gravy-oozing hambeasts. But beggars can't be choosers.

mouse · Vociferator Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 740

i'm well aware that you are chemically imbalanced -
but i'm the kind of guy that likes a challenge -
from a crazy kind of girl -
who lives in her own world... who is legally insane

i'm not afraid and i will rise to the occasion
and i'll remind you when it's time for medication !
for a mixed up little girl - alone in this big world
...who is legally insane

you need someone who's there -- when you're losing all your faculties
you need someone who understands all your abnormalities
... i understand all the problems you got ....i'll stay up nights on a suicide watch for youuuu -- fucked up girl.

sorry, had to

:)

Its "f'd up girl" by the Vandals.. good song

Big Evil Ogre · Apocrisiary Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 44

Too much sex, yup.
But not enough drugs... hmmm... I think a lot of these guys abuse Prozac and snort powdered Xanax.
Rock n' roll in furry pretty much consists of N Sync or Buttstreet Boys.

I think one of the big problems in furry is how publishers tend to use the stories they deal with as political soapboxes to force feed everyone thier opinions. Shanda Fantasy Arts is particularly bad.
Also artists and authors who treat everyone like shit *coughcoughtyggercough* and artists who don't want anything to do with the furry public, yet still wants everyone to buy thier stuff *Coughcoughkensamplecoughfiskcough*
But it over sexed, not enough rock n' rolled, and they're on the wrong drugs. But hey. I'm Indian, I can smoke pot and still pass a drug test.

Maybe the problem with phurrae isn't so much the over-abundance of sex...

As it is the noticeable lack of drugs and rock & roll! :twisted:

ZenZhu · Vociferator Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 669

Well, they had rock and roll, but they filked it all up by putting references to Disney's Robin Hood in Drowning Pool songs. They would have drugs, but Pocky, Nutella, and Taco Bell do not count as illegal substances.

GoManVanGogh · Prattler Joined: 18 Nov 2003 Posts: 194

Uhhh... Hey, baby!

Y'know, I hear PETA's going to raid this hotel, so it's not really safe for you to be dressed in that fur...

If you come back to my room, I'd be glad to help you remove it! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

GoManVanGogh · Prattler Joined: 18 Nov 2003 Posts: 194

Too much sex, yup.
But not enough drugs... hmmm... I think a lot of these guys abuse Prozac and snort powdered Xanax.
Rock n' roll in furry pretty much consists of N Sync or Buttstreet Boys.

Naw, man, I mean think about it!

Instead of yet another chock-full-of-angst wank-rag being crapped out the collective ass of the phurrae publishing world, wouldn't you love to see something like...

SCUM BUNNIES?

A punk-rock group of foul-mouthed, ultra-violent, revoltingly despicable anthropomorphic rabbits who, when they aren't performing, partake in binge-drinking, drug orgies and doing things with groupies that would make Larry Flynt join the clergy!

It would be a collectors item, only lasting 10 issues before the entire cast meets their demise in some gruesomely hilarious manner!

THAT'S what we need to bring fandom back to it's roots! :D

ZenZhu · Vociferator Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 669

Uhhh... Hey, baby!

Y'know, I hear PETA's going to raid this hotel, so it's not really safe for you to be dressed in that fur...

If you come back to my room, I'd be glad to help you remove it! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

This little piggy went to market. This little piggy stayed home. This little piggy had my long, hard roast beef. This little piggy could put her ankles behind her head. This little piggy cried in orgasmic extacy......

Oh my.... all out of piggies....

Big Evil Ogre · Apocrisiary Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 44

Too much sex, yup.
But not enough drugs... hmmm... I think a lot of these guys abuse Prozac and snort powdered Xanax.
Rock n' roll in furry pretty much consists of N Sync or Buttstreet Boys.

Naw, man, I mean think about it!

Instead of yet another chock-full-of-angst wank-rag being crapped out the collective ass of the phurrae publishing world, wouldn't you love to see something like...

SCUM BUNNIES?

A punk-rock group of foul-mouthed, ultra-violent, revoltingly despicable anthropomorphic rabbits who, when they aren't performing, partake in binge-drinking, drug orgies and doing things with groupies that would make Larry Flynt join the clergy!

It would be a collectors item, only lasting 10 issues before the entire cast meets their demise in some gruesomely hilarious manner!

THAT'S what we need to bring fandom back to it's roots! :D

That sounds both like something you'd see in a Savage Squirrel comic... or in my highschool days during study hall.

Ebonyleopard · Coadjutor Joined: 15 Sep 2004 Posts: 92

Why don'tyou all do something of your own? It's not like there aren't enough capable artists and obviously enough people with ideas to pass as writers to actually do something that surpasses anything that is furry.

Or at least, it seems to be the case.

Be like NIKE, Just Do It.

Rankin · Vociferator Joined: 03 Jan 2004 Posts: 727

Why don'tyou all do something of your own?

Much of this is due to the fact that it's much easier to bitch reactively than proactively work. Most can claim apathy; myself, however, I'm as talentless as a slug.

- S

Big Evil Ogre · Apocrisiary Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 44

I tried actually. Problem is a few things. I know I'm no Steven King but every time I tried to post my story that was 100% yiff free I was pretty much flamed until I took it down. Fifteen years of work, 1400 pages later I have a whopping 2 fans. One of them I can't really can't because I slept with her.
The other, for it to work there's a few looks an artist would have to be able to pull off. No one I have asked is willing to try it. One person was but wants $30 a page.
Also... Mr. Curtis doesn't think too highly of me. The feeling there is mutual.
So I gave up on it.

Why don'tyou all do something of your own? It's not like there aren't enough capable artists and obviously enough people with ideas to pass as writers to actually do something that surpasses anything that is furry.

Or at least, it seems to be the case.

Be like NIKE, Just Do It.

Wayd Wolf · Vociferator Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 522

Why don'tyou all do something of your own? It's not like there aren't enough capable artists and obviously enough people with ideas to pass as writers to actually do something that surpasses anything that is furry.

Or at least, it seems to be the case.

Be like NIKE, Just Do It.

That's yet another piece of evidence you're trolling for the a.f.f crowd and not taking this place or the regulars seriously. If you understood anything yet, you'd understand that 90% of everyone here ALREADY HAS.

We're disgusted by the freakery, the perversions, the fetishes, the geekery, the crap, the utter horseshit taking over anthropomorphics, making it impossible to partake of the genre without being tarred and feathered.

In case you haven't noticed, and it seems you haven't grasped this yet, is that the open minded do your own thing mindset has resulted in brains falling clean out, and all things being excusable. Various notable furs have engaged in fursuit sex, animal sex, and other things, wrapped their bullshit in anthropomorphics, and everyone else LETS THEM GET AWAY WITH IT.

We tried. We were outnumbered by schmucks. Now we're sounding off.

DA · Vociferator Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 355

I tried actually. Problem is a few things. I know I'm no Steven King but every time I tried to post my story that was 100% yiff free I was pretty much flamed until I took it down. Fifteen years of work, 1400 pages later I have a whopping 2 fans. One of them I can't really can't because I slept with her.
The other, for it to work there's a few looks an artist would have to be able to pull off. No one I have asked is willing to try it. One person was but wants $30 a page.
Also... Mr. Curtis doesn't think too highly of me. The feeling there is mutual.
So I gave up on it.

1400 page? what's it about? I could always use something to read ;) PM me with some details please?

Paul · Venter Joined: 01 Feb 2004 Posts: 215

Why don'tyou all do something of your own? It's not like there aren't enough capable artists and obviously enough people with ideas to pass as writers to actually do something that surpasses anything that is furry.

Or at least, it seems to be the case.

We're all here for different reasons. But I don't think anyone's here because they're on a mission to save furry fandom from itself. We have no obligation to.

I'm here because I find the fucked-up-ness of furrydom entertaining, and it's fun to discuss that with other people. But I don't subscribe to Wayd's view that anthropomorphics as such have been tainted. There's plenty of anthro art and artists out there that have nothing to do with furrydom. (A few comics examples: Arne Anka, Blacksad, Donjon, Lapinot, Over the Hedge.)

Sure, some people connected with furrydom have made good works. But overall, furrydom taints any work that has a connection with it - and some of the artists involved with the fandom clearly have problems with the fandom's dark side. The author of one furry webcomic - I forget which at the moment - makes a point of stressing she's not a furry herself. And I recall David Hopkins (author of the webcomic Jack) at one point posted a long rant on his site about how the fandom needed to get its act together. It read a bit like the Burned Fur manifesto, and we all know how much reform that brought about: none.

So if you want to work within the framework of the fandom, you're going to have to put up with a lot of crap. If you don't want to do that, avoid the fandom like the plague and have your works published by someone outside it (this requires that your work has qualities making non-furries interested, of course).

ZenZhu · Vociferator Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 669

Why don'tyou all do something of your own? It's not like there aren't enough capable artists and obviously enough people with ideas to pass as writers to actually do something that surpasses anything that is furry.

Or at least, it seems to be the case.

Be like NIKE, Just Do It.

Everyone here has their own and perfectly valid reasons for not hopping on the bandwagon to actually raise the bar in furry works. Many have the sentiment Wayd expressed, which I also share. Some of us have been into furries as far back as the mid-80s. I remember my first glimpse of it was a little comic mag.. Amazing Comics, I think.. that had an issue focusing on anthros. Seeing a mention of Albedo, I picked up what few copies the local comic shop had. So, some of us are familiar with furrydom and funny animal comics from back when there were only a few, but quite talented artists and writers producing funny animal comics. At the time, Omaha was about the only comic anyone really heard of with furry characters in sexual situations. Albedo had the occasional titilation, but nothing as explicit as Waller and his popcorn shrimp pubes. (I always thought Omaha was in serious need of a bikini wax... or a least a little trimming of the hedges, y'know.)

Between about 1989 and 2001, I'd been involved in furrydom in one fashion or another. I exchanged letters and sketches with folks like Terrie Smith, Tom Verre and Steve Gallacci. I even did character design sketches for Steve for a project that, as far as I know, never got off of the ground (his admitted weakness in drawing human characters led him to ask me to help flesh out his concepts.. it was something similar in fashion to Kikaider, though the android heroine didn't have super strength or anything like that). I did contributions for a couple of Alston's little fanzines.

I never did go to cons, however. You couldn't pay me to go to a con of anything, except maybe to raid the toys and CDs at an anime con. Even then, it'd be a get in, grab the loot, get out surgical strike. I just can't be around folks so fixated on something. My brother goes to quite a few of the furry cons, though, since he lives in California.

Still, through regular surfing of VCL and almost nightly chatting on MUCKs, I could see where furrydom was going, even if I couldn't substantiate everything claimed to go on at cons. I could see from con reports that dealers' rooms were gaining a growing smut contingent. Some of the MUCKs became little more than cybersex dens. VCL went from a collection of talented and semi-talented artists, among whom the likes of Doug Winger stood out as "the weird one" to a huge archive of near talentless hacks all trying to gain their 15 minutes of glory by drawing Sonic the Hedgehog spooge. Steadily, using Doug Winger as the measure by which depravity was rated (though I know a lot of Doug's motivations are purely comedic value) became useless, as more and more work came in that made Doug's look tame. Hyperphalluses gushing enough spooge to fill an Olympic-sized pool became pretty commonplace.

With so much of furrydom consisting of so many folks (teens, young adults, middle-aged virgins) with their share of sexual frustration, it's not entirely surprising that it would become an outlet for sexual tensions. In that respect, I can't fault furrydom for degressing into what it is today... not that I support it, but, neither do I find it entirely surprising, the more I think about it. I do fault, however, the folks in furrydom that contributed to its degression by pushing their personal philosophies and agendas, and the mindless tauting of "open-mindedness."

I always say, you want to keep your mind open enough to be receptive to new ideas, but not so open that your brains spill out onto your shoes. The furry concept of open-mindedness, however, quickly became a militant drive to stifle any voices that suggested there are lines between what should and shouldn't be tolerated. Tolerance became little more than a moniker for furry lobotimies.

Around 2001, I really started turning around in my involvement with furry stuff. I had finished school, gotten engaged, and gotten my first serious job on my chosen career track (though I'm presently trying to switch trains :wink: ). It was then that I feel in with a group of folks that were really starting to take a bit of action regarding furrydom. It wasn't an outright declaration of war as the Burned Furs had recently decreed, but a more subversive movement. Among these folks was the now semi-infamous Random, and Sonny Windstrupp, better known as Kobus. A few of our ranks were folks that really just wanted to harass furries. Most of us, however, wanted to do something in an attempt to turn furrydom's image around, and at least put a few controls in place. We knew the spooge contingent could never be contained, but we hoped to encourage furries to exercise a little more common sense.

Our methods of "encouragement," admittedly, were a bit strongarm. I think it was around 2001 that we began communicating with hotels hosting furry cons. What we did was approach them as furry fans that were concerned about what the public might come in contact with at the cons the hotels were hosting. Figuring that the con planners would convey the likes of ConFurenece to be all sunshine and lollipops, we tried to let the hotels know that they should expect some adult material to be quite visible. We stressed that furry was not solely a pit of spooge, but that they should be aware of what was actually present at cons, lest they suffer complaints from their non-furry patrons.

We sent them links to photos from previous cons. We provided URLs to both Yerf and VCL, trying to maintain a balanced image in what we provided, so that they wouldn't think it was little more than a porn trade show.. but that they also realized it was not like having Disney brought to their doorstep.

About this time, news broke that one con.. I forget which.. was going to have to find a different hotel, as the one that they had planned to have host it severed their contract, citing some terms that were convenient loopholes. I can't say we were responseble for this. Allegedly, it was the result of a phone call... we only sent emails. Still, the timing was coincidental enough that I can't say we weren't responsible for putting a couple of nails in that coffin.

The timing of another turning point.... the first stink over a hotel requiring post-it notes covering bared breasts and genitalia.. was also rather coincidental with some informative letters we had sent. So, again, I can't say we were responsible for the hotel making such stipulations, but I can't say we weren't either.

The business with the post-it notes was more of our objective than having a hotel pull its hosting for a con. We weren't trying to flat-out harass furries (though, admittedly, such effects delighted us to no end). We were simply trying to go over their heads to set some controls in place that might make them a little more mindful of what they present to the public eye.

Of course, public-mindedness doesn't stop furries from making asses of themselves in front of TV cameras. But, at the very least, someone, if not us, had struck a blow to say "Hey, guys... non-furries are going to be seeing some of this, even if in passing. Let's have a little decorum and not make the whole con look like a porn fest." Still, unless a hotel stipulates it, the idea of keeping adult works under the table, or obscured in black binders... or somewhere other than on completely public display.. seems to be a foreign concept to a lot of furries. As Ebony has suggested, however, such things seem to be more prevalent at west coast cons. (One may be quick to point out my admission that I've never been to nor ever would go to a con... but con reports and photographs make it pretty evident when you have more responsible artists, and when you have a smutfest.)

While I have nothing to prove my claim, I also believe I was responsible for a crackdown on VCL a few years back. VCL was becoming pretty prevalent with furry porn depicting copyrighted characters like Sally Acorn, Lola Bunny, etc. Hell, I even saw porn of Sebulba.. the pod-racer champion from Star Wars: The Phantom Menace (he looked like a dessicated camel walking on his arms). Shortly after some communications with Nickelodeon, Disney, Warner Brothers, and Lucas Studios, all copyrighted characters were pulled from VCL. I never got a letter from Ch'marr or anything, but my ISP wound up being blocked. Of course, an anonymizer site made it easy to surf there anyway.

Like I said, we weren't trying to encourage furry genocide. We were just taking somewhat strongarm measures to get furries thinking about what they were presenting to the public eye. Extreme adult art, some of the more infamous con hijinks, and posting personal fantasies of Lola Bunny where the non-furry public can witness this stuff isn't doing furrydom any favors.

As much as furries would like to insist that the non-furry public should be more "tolerant" and "open-minded," furrydom in general has displayed little willingness to take a responsible approach and see that some decorum on their part is required. Tolerance is a two-way street wherein both parties show a certain respect for the others. I'll respect a furry's belief that they're a misplaced dragon spirit if they'll respect my desire to not hear or give a rat's ass about said dragon spirit. But, the furry drive for external validation makes it hard for them to rope in their behaviors, because they want to carry on in hedonistic fashions and have everyone tell them it's hunkey dorey.

Flash forward to the present. What am I doing now to contribute to the positive image of furrydom? Two things.. Jack and shit... and Jack left town. There's a few reasons for this. First is that I personally think furrydom is beyond "saving." Not necessarily because it's so fetid that it can never be salvaged.. but because furrydom doesn't want to be salvaged. My first lesson in this was when the admins of FurryMUCK caught wind of the stuff the group I mentioned was doing. Since I had been the spearhead of our efforts for some of these letter-writing campains and the VCL thing, they banned me. The official reason was that they thought I had been allowing Random, who was banned, to use my account. This, however, was untrue and easily disproven by the information admins have about where a player is connecting from and such. It was just a smokescreen to attempt to limit my access to FurryMUCK and prevent me from using details about it as dirt on furry behaviors. It was also basically an attempt to punish me for my "crimes against furrydom." It didn't really matter, however, as I had not played on FM much anyway. In fact, I told the admins they were doing me a favor... invoking the phrase "Keep your friend close, and your enemies even closer."

Folks like Ebony have noble sentiments about raising the bar in furrydom, but, it's a fools errand. Furrydom doesn't want the bar raised. It wants to be what it is today, and will actively protect its spooge. Sure, furries bitch about their image.. but to turn their image around... they'd have to stop telling people about their misplaced wolf spirit and start making adult sections of sites like VCL require verification of adult status. And I don't simply mean a disclaimer saying you agree.. I mean requiring a credit card number or something. Salvaging furrydom's image would require effort, responsibility, and self-discipline... three things many furries avoid like the plague.

Furrydom's image is like an alcoholic... an alcoholic has to want to recover for himself/herself. They can't be forced into it. They have to want to change. Furries will have to want to actively take responsibility to change, and they'll have to take it upon themselves. Until the numbers change in favor of folks with aspirations like Ebony's, then furrydom in general will continue to crawl back into the bottle.

So, there's one reason I don't contribute to furrydom's salvation... I think it's a fool's errand.

The second, and probably most important reason is that I just really don't do the furry thing any more. The only thing I've drawn in the past year is doodles in the steam on my shower door. About a year ago, I bought a few of those How to Draw Anime books with the aspirations of taking back up the anime drawing bit... but, really, art just isn't one of my pasttimes anymore. I that career change I mentioned, I'm hoping to draw on my art background... but I don't plan on being an artist. If I don't have much interest in producing art for my own enjoyment, then obviously I don't have much interest in producing art to contribute to a fandom. If I pick up a brush these days, it's to learn some new kanji.

I'm just one of those folks that grew up and found he no longer enjoys some of the things that gave him satisfaction as a youth. Not to say you're a failure as a human being if you don't have a minivan, a mortgage, and 2.5 kids. But, people change. Some folks will love drawing and comic books to their dying day. Nothing at all wrong with that. Other folks, however, move on to other things. The free time I used to spend drawing and MUCKing are now spent exercising, cooking, learning to do bonsai, meditating, and hoping to get back into Aikido. That's not to suggest that that is somehow better than someone spending their time drawing and such. If people didn't continue to pursue that, I wouldn't have Inuyasha or Case Closed to watch. But, it's just not for me, anymore.

So, if furrydom doesn't really do it for me anymore, why come here and bitch about it? Well, admittedly, it's a release, for one thing. I wouldn't say I'm aiming all of my frustrations in general at furrydom in some act of projection... but I won't suggest I'm not capable of such erroneous behavior. I figure in some way, I also harbor something of a grudge against the furry freak contingent that brought the fandom to what it is today. There's probably some resitual resentment from the days when I was really into furries. I would like to think I was above such grudge-bearing, but I'm sure that factors in somewhere. I am only a human, after all.. and not some foxdragonwolfspiritthingy that has the answers to all of life's questions <snerk>. While furrydom doesn't really do much for me anymore, I still enjoy seeing morphs.

Overall, though, I'd have to say that the whole history and phenomenon with furrydom is just too fascinating. Having been witness to furry history, it's interesting to discuss and compare theories with other folks that have seen this stuff going on. It's the train wreck phenomenon... don't want to stare, but you can't look away. I think many of us are trying to figure out what happened and when. What events really tipped the scales? Was it all a slow progression, or are there events and people that really pushed things to where they are now? The sarcasm and "OMG MY EYES!" is, in a way, just enjoying some comedy amidst the attempt to understand the hows and whys of furrydom's current state.

I think, too, some of us may be trying to understand it to understand ourselves. We see ourselves as we were in furries today, and we're trying to figure out how the hell we ever got into it. In a way, I think exploring the current state of furrydom is an attempt to make peace with it. Sure, we say we don't care what the freaks do, so long as they don't hurt anyone.. but then we keep coming back here. Obviously, we care in some capacity.

Speaking for myself, I was a contributer of adult furry material, including pencils for one segment of a Wild Kindgom. I had passing thoughts of animal souls and stuff. I did explore the whole animal totem mystique. So, I see some of what I was in the furry freaks. Rather than lashing out at them in an attempt to really lash out at myself, however (as furries are often quick to attempt to suggest), I think I'm just trying to understand why the heck I was ever like them.

Every so often, here, we seem to have new insights into "the furry condition." Every time I have an epiphany as to why furries might be the freaks they are, I actually become a little more okay with their existence. The more I think I come to understand why there are people that draw dripping hyperphallic hermtaurs, or run naked through the woods behind their house and howl at the moon in some desperate attempt to avoid facing reality.... the more I become okay with it. As long as no one's preying on little kids or abusing animals.... the more I understand the harmless freaks, the less I really care that they're out there. Eventually, I figure I'll understand enough about them and how I was ever like that that I'll just kind of fade from here and never really give furry much thought beyond that.

Big Evil Ogre · Apocrisiary Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 44

Well, most of it is hand written or done on a word processor. I started over with my first computer and only got a few chapters down. Right now I only have an origins chapter and about 20 pages of the actual story, before any real action starts.
It's what you'd get if you mixed Dog the Bounty Hunter with Harry Potter. A buncha magic using badass bounty hunters/law enforcers. I have been told there's a strong influence of horror B movies and Silent Hill games in it, which I didn't see until I was told.
"Oh yyyeah. I see that now."
I am a horror nut. I get a kick outta getting scared. Hence why I Have a best time of getting to work at 140 MPH and climbing. I bet I can push to 160.
The thing about the artists is I need someone who can draw humans. The chharacters are largely lycanthrope. But still spend time as humans. I also heavily indulge in one of my greatest loves... hotrods. Almost every character has a custom street machine. (I know, corny, it's how I decide what I'm going to do on any real life cars I have going)
You can get an idea of characters at my website. www.landslide302.homestead.com

I tried actually. Problem is a few things. I know I'm no Steven King but every time I tried to post my story that was 100% yiff free I was pretty much flamed until I took it down. Fifteen years of work, 1400 pages later I have a whopping 2 fans. One of them I can't really can't because I slept with her.
The other, for it to work there's a few looks an artist would have to be able to pull off. No one I have asked is willing to try it. One person was but wants $30 a page.
Also... Mr. Curtis doesn't think too highly of me. The feeling there is mutual.
So I gave up on it.

1400 page? what's it about? I could always use something to read ;) PM me with some details please?

Sean · Qualificator Joined: 05 Nov 2003 Posts: 26

You can get an idea of characters at my website. www.landslide302.homestead.com

::browses site; jaw drops onto keyboard; turns green with envy::

Holy crap, you got a commish from GEORGE F'N TROSLEY~~!!

My brother Dave and I were huge "CARtoons" magazine fans in our youth. We loved Trosley's art the most of all, and agreed his Krass & Bernie comics and How To Draw segments were the greatest thing ever committed to paper.

(Sadly, our stash of back issues, which I thought was safely in storage, has gone missing somehow...and I had plans to scan the T-shirt iron-ons from each copy, print them out on transfer paper, and make a shitload of unique retro-Ts for us to wear...pray for their safe recovery...)

Anyways, good sir, I salute you and your incredible good fortune. ::salutes::

Big Evil Ogre · Apocrisiary Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 44

Yup, Got George, in fact that pic was also on his fliers for like a year. SADLY though, because his wife liked that commission so much she made him up his commission price (He or his wife, I think it was the wife) to $200. Last I checked he still does them, just give him a pic of your ride and he'll draw it.
Another one I got, though just a very quick sketch done with a Sharpie, was Ed Roth. He was at a carshow out here in Grand Junction a few years back, I think one year before he died. My father actually got it for me, he didn't charge anything. It's really rough but Ed wasn't feeling well, age and 110 degree weather. Anyway, when I had to leave dad forgot to get the pic. But ol' Ed Roth went around that massive car show looking for me to give me the pic, asking local hotrodders if they knew how to get ahold of me. No one did. I ran into him at Wal Mart where he just wanted to sit and talk to me for a while. He admitted the guy who won the car show didn't deserve it, mom's 66 Corvette deserved it. Mine had a better design but I wasn't as skilled with the body and paint.
Ed was an honest to goodness, real live nice person. I know there's a special place in heaven for him. I hope to meet him there someday to thank him for his kindness.

You can get an idea of characters at my website. www.landslide302.homestead.com

::browses site; jaw drops onto keyboard; turns green with envy::

Holy crap, you got a commish from GEORGE F'N TROSLEY~~!!

My brother Dave and I were huge "CARtoons" magazine fans in our youth. We loved Trosley's art the most of all, and agreed his Krass & Bernie comics and How To Draw segments were the greatest thing ever committed to paper.

(Sadly, our stash of back issues, which I thought was safely in storage, has gone missing somehow...and I had plans to scan the T-shirt iron-ons from each copy, print them out on transfer paper, and make a shitload of unique retro-Ts for us to wear...pray for their safe recovery...)

Anyways, good sir, I salute you and your incredible good fortune. ::salutes::

Big Evil Ogre · Apocrisiary Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 44

Yeah! He still takes them I think. $200 for a commission of your street machine. George also has a compilation CD of his Krass & Bernie episodes.
I also managed to get a quick sketch from Ed "Big Daddy" Roth. Gave him a sharpie and a peice of paper and he was good to go. He did the sketch while I guarded my Camaro there. I had to leave for work, dad was supposed to pic it up for me (He was the one who tracked Ed down for me to get it) but forgot. Ol' Ed Roth searched the isles for me, not feeling well from old age and massive heat. But he treid to find if anyone knew me to get me my art. I ran into him at Wal Mart the next morning. He wanted to sit and chat with me, and honest to goodness REAL LIVE nice guy. He will be missed.

You can get an idea of characters at my website. www.landslide302.homestead.com

::browses site; jaw drops onto keyboard; turns green with envy::

Holy crap, you got a commish from GEORGE F'N TROSLEY~~!!

My brother Dave and I were huge "CARtoons" magazine fans in our youth. We loved Trosley's art the most of all, and agreed his Krass & Bernie comics and How To Draw segments were the greatest thing ever committed to paper.

(Sadly, our stash of back issues, which I thought was safely in storage, has gone missing somehow...and I had plans to scan the T-shirt iron-ons from each copy, print them out on transfer paper, and make a shitload of unique retro-Ts for us to wear...pray for their safe recovery...)

Anyways, good sir, I salute you and your incredible good fortune. ::salutes::

The Outsider · Coadjutor Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Posts: 100

Yup, Got George, in fact that pic was also on his fliers for like a year. SADLY though, because his wife liked that commission so much she made him up his commission price (He or his wife, I think it was the wife) to $200. Last I checked he still does them, just give him a pic of your ride and he'll draw it.

If I had a couple c-notes free, I'd commission an illo of Ol' Reliable.

Another one I got, though just a very quick sketch done with a Sharpie, was Ed Roth. He was at a carshow out here in Grand Junction a few years back, I think one year before he died. My father actually got it for me, he didn't charge anything. It's really rough but Ed wasn't feeling well, age and 110 degree weather. Anyway, when I had to leave dad forgot to get the pic. But ol' Ed Roth went around that massive car show looking for me to give me the pic, asking local hotrodders if they knew how to get ahold of me. No one did. I ran into him at Wal Mart where he just wanted to sit and talk to me for a while. He admitted the guy who won the car show didn't deserve it, mom's 66 Corvette deserved it. Mine had a better design but I wasn't as skilled with the body and paint.
Ed was an honest to goodness, real live nice person. I know there's a special place in heaven for him. I hope to meet him there someday to thank him for his kindness.

And I seriously doubt there's another artist who'd do that. It shows that the legends have class. It reminds me of the Atlanta Fantasy Fair in 1990 when Jack Kirby approached me and struck up a conversation. Or when I met my all-time favorite inker Joe Sinnott at San Diego Comic-Con in 1995.

The Outsider

Donotsue · Venter Joined: 17 Jan 2004 Posts: 209

Waah... only famous people I have ran into are Glen Keane, Don Rosa (Barks' successor) Gilbert Shelton (Freak Bros) and Hunt Emerson (Firkin)
and norweigians here should know the artist who goes under the name of *The Walters*(Pervo Kris) =)

So Ogre and Mouse here also like muscle cars? =) Hey Ogre, have ya seen my crappy ride.... www.furnation.com/donotsue/kit.html ?
Of all the europe, Finns especially luhv to build oldies tho they are expensive to maintain and gas costs 4 times as much as in US.
Laws are looser in Sweden so they can do more special HotRods..

Hope this don't de-rail the thread...<<<=)

DA · Vociferator Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 355

You can get an idea of characters at my website. www.landslide302.homestead.com

Fairly interesting but also fairly generic in terms of character design, I hope you have a good story for them.

Genghis · Venter Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 214

Of all the europe, Finns especially luhv to build oldies tho they are expensive to maintain and gas costs 4 times as much as in US.

Yes, but Europe tends to balance this out because we don't consider 15mpg to be "economical".

ZenZhu · Vociferator Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 669

I would think about the only people that would consider 15 mpg economical would be the Hummer crowd... which, IMO, is one of the dumbest things out there on the road for personal use.

Big Evil Ogre · Apocrisiary Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 44

HEY! I can appreciate the work in that, especially the body work needed to paint it black like that. It's so hard to get a car's body perfect enough to do that.
What kind of engine do you have under the hood?
My 1969 Camaro Z/28 is propelled through the quarter mile by a 355 CI small block V8 with Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, original Z/28 aluminum dual plane manifold topped with a Holley 750 double pumper, 1.6 ratio roller rockers, 292 hydraulic cam, forged pistons, Muncie four speed trans and 373 Posi rear end. The best time I got out of it is 13.2 through the quarter, but I can't shit like I used to with bad feet and in 1969 the Camaro Z/28 did not come with an auto even as an option. It was arace only application (though street legal so I guess it's not really race only)
I am also currently 1/4 of the way done with my 1929 Dodge Bros four door sedan, and building my mom a 1936 Chrysler 5 Window Coupe. Also in the family is a 1926 Ford Track T, 1929 Woodie Wagon (NYAHA, I got a Woodie! Bad joke) 1927 Oldsmobile 2 Door Sedan, and a 1966 427 Corvette Stingray.

Waah... only famous people I have ran into are Glen Keane, Don Rosa (Barks' successor) Gilbert Shelton (Freak Bros) and Hunt Emerson (Firkin)
and norweigians here should know the artist who goes under the name of *The Walters*(Pervo Kris) =)

So Ogre and Mouse here also like muscle cars? =) Hey Ogre, have ya seen my crappy ride.... www.furnation.com/donotsue/kit.html ?
Of all the europe, Finns especially luhv to build oldies tho they are expensive to maintain and gas costs 4 times as much as in US.
Laws are looser in Sweden so they can do more special HotRods..

Hope this don't de-rail the thread...<<<=)

Big Evil Ogre · Apocrisiary Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 44

Pretty basic visually. Landslide (Most often seen as the black and white cat) is a type of lycanthrope. He has seven different animal forms and his human form. (Some American INdians beleive there are seven totems, one for each cardinal direction, North South East and West and above, below, and "here in the middle". Landslide is mostly American Indian by blood and was invited to come to Pledia (Some Cherokee believe a star named Pledia is the source of all life in the universe, other's think only Cherokee came from Pledia). The metal in his body is basically made of his soul which had been "forged" after he was killed in prison.
Sierra is pretty much the same story. She's most often seen as a tigress. She's the leader, between jobs when it's slow she's a professional boxer. She has a more powerful magic ability than the others.
The only character who I felt was truely unique was Gravedigger... until I got into Todd McFarlane's stuff.
I use a lot of horror movies and games for inspiration.
I like to think the story was good. But the masses pretty much agreed I suck donkey ass when it comes to that. So when I dp work on the story it's only because it's a stress relief for me.

You can get an idea of characters at my website. www.landslide302.homestead.com

Fairly interesting but also fairly generic in terms of character design, I hope you have a good story for them.

mouse · Vociferator Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 740

My 1969 Camaro Z/28 is propelled through the quarter mile by a 355 CI small block V8 with Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, original Z/28 aluminum dual plane manifold topped with a Holley 750 double pumper, 1.6 ratio roller rockers, 292 hydraulic cam, forged pistons, Muncie four speed trans and 373 Posi rear end.

The setup is almost identical to my friends 73 Chevelle. 355 4 bolt main block, forged crank/pistons, headers, fuelie 202 heads (port and polished), edlebrock RPM intake.. err actually its the one thats low-end off idle to 3000 or whatever. Mild cam to go with the intake and T350 auto trans with a shift kit and 3.73s in the back, though he needs to get posi for it. Much smaller carb, 550. I dont even know what its putting out .. I estimate conservatively at 350hp. Its nice because its all set up for low-end power.

I am also currently 1/4 of the way done with my 1929 Dodge Bros four door sedan, and building my mom a 1936 Chrysler 5 Window Coupe. Also in the family is a 1926 Ford Track T, 1929 Woodie Wagon (NYAHA, I got a Woodie! Bad joke) 1927 Oldsmobile 2 Door Sedan, and a 1966 427 Corvette Stingray.

damn. I wish I had a collection of cars like that. What I have I dont have the money to do anything with :)

I bought a 6x2 intake manifold for the 394 in my '64 olds, but I dont have the skill or money to assemble that kind of setup right now. Let alone have the money or space to fix and paint it.

Muscle car prices are the thru the roof right now, which is ok, cuz while I'd like one at some point (69 roadrunners and 70 superbees..different mopars as far as muscle cars go) - lately I've been leaning more towards 50's and early 60's cars anyway. Not that I could go out and just buy something like that anyway.. I still need to buy a good winter vehicle

Skunkfuckers Inc. · Prattler Joined: 20 Jan 2004 Posts: 159

I would think about the only people that would consider 15 mpg economical would be the Hummer crowd... which, IMO, is one of the dumbest things out there on the road for personal use.

The puny Hummer is a girly-truck compared to the testosterone dripping, diesel guzzling monster that is the International CXT. It's like, the Incredible Hulk of pickups.

Big Evil Ogre · Apocrisiary Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 44

I agree. That's a good setup he has. Torque is what makes a car fun to drive. In my opinion the carb I have on my Camaro is too big. That 550 your freind has will give him great throttle response. Too large of a carb results in the air not moving past the venturi fast enough causing the air fuel mix to not atomize right.
That 6X2 setup had to be wild! A nightmare to tune I imagine but once in tune a nice setup, and hot looking. I had wanted Holborn fuel injection for the 1929 Dodge I'm building, but I know nutzing about it, so I'm going with tri power in it. Three dueces on a Pontiac 389 out of a 61 Bonneville. TH350 out of a Ventura, 1975 Camaro front clip...
It will be hot hot hot!

My 1969 Camaro Z/28 is propelled through the quarter mile by a 355 CI small block V8 with Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, original Z/28 aluminum dual plane manifold topped with a Holley 750 double pumper, 1.6 ratio roller rockers, 292 hydraulic cam, forged pistons, Muncie four speed trans and 373 Posi rear end.

The setup is almost identical to my friends 73 Chevelle. 355 4 bolt main block, forged crank/pistons, headers, fuelie 202 heads (port and polished), edlebrock RPM intake.. err actually its the one thats low-end off idle to 3000 or whatever. Mild cam to go with the intake and T350 auto trans with a shift kit and 3.73s in the back, though he needs to get posi for it. Much smaller carb, 550. I dont even know what its putting out .. I estimate conservatively at 350hp. Its nice because its all set up for low-end power.

I am also currently 1/4 of the way done with my 1929 Dodge Bros four door sedan, and building my mom a 1936 Chrysler 5 Window Coupe. Also in the family is a 1926 Ford Track T, 1929 Woodie Wagon (NYAHA, I got a Woodie! Bad joke) 1927 Oldsmobile 2 Door Sedan, and a 1966 427 Corvette Stingray.

damn. I wish I had a collection of cars like that. What I have I dont have the money to do anything with :)

I bought a 6x2 intake manifold for the 394 in my '64 olds, but I dont have the skill or money to assemble that kind of setup right now. Let alone have the money or space to fix and paint it.

Muscle car prices are the thru the roof right now, which is ok, cuz while I'd like one at some point (69 roadrunners and 70 superbees..different mopars as far as muscle cars go) - lately I've been leaning more towards 50's and early 60's cars anyway. Not that I could go out and just buy something like that anyway.. I still need to buy a good winter vehicle

Big Evil Ogre · Apocrisiary Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 44

That looks like it'd be fun to drive! Bet the insuranc is killer though. Being
diesel powered it might get decent mileage. throw a flatbed on there and use it for road trips with the hotrods on the trailer!

I would think about the only people that would consider 15 mpg economical would be the Hummer crowd... which, IMO, is one of the dumbest things out there on the road for personal use.

The puny Hummer is a girly-truck compared to the testosterone dripping, diesel guzzling monster that is the International CXT. It's like, the Incredible Hulk of pickups.

Kadius · Venter Joined: 10 Feb 2004 Posts: 254

The puny Hummer is a girly-truck compared to the testosterone dripping, diesel guzzling monster that is the International CXT. It's like, the Incredible Hulk of pickups.

It's a fucking semi with a bed.

I drive a hotwheels car. Now, what was this thread about again?

Skunkfuckers Inc. · Prattler Joined: 20 Jan 2004 Posts: 159

Now, what was this thread about again?

I actually had to look, but it was about the problem with furry not having enough sex, drugs, rock & roll and, I'd assume, nice cars. Because furries are lame.

mouse · Vociferator Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 740

I agree. That's a good setup he has.

Well I know its 9:1 compression on the motor, I know he runs usually just 87 octane, sometimes 89... and from what he said , he gets 18mpg highway , which isnt bad considering the performance overall.
You said you had a prob with your leg for the shifting, you could look into an automatic and put a shift kit in it. You can get that real hard shift like it was stick. If he really really jumps on it hes chirped the tires into 3rd before with that.

Or even better since you race your car - get a transmission lock.

>That 6X2 setup had to be wild! A nightmare to tune I imagine but once in tune a nice setup, and hot looking.

I don't have much experience, so building the linkage for that would be a bitch. What I wanted, tho (and this is just day dreaming but.. ) I wanted to have 6 holes in the hood and 6 velocity stacks or 6 frog mouth (modified - extended) scoops coming off the carbs thru the hood .. paint it flat black and leave all the stainless steel and chrome trim on. maybe skirt the rear tires and lower it. Its a big 60s 4-door family sedan. '64 Super 88

>I had wanted Holborn fuel injection for the 1929 Dodge I'm building, but I know nutzing about it, so I'm going with tri power in it. Three dueces on a Pontiac 389 out of a 61 Bonneville. TH350 out of a Ventura, 1975 Camaro front clip...
It will be hot hot hot!

Thats what was in the early GTO's right ? tri-power 389? It'll be very nice.

Donny should wedge that type of motor into that firebird. :)
I forget what those formulas had in them .. hell I dont even know offhand what year firebird KITT was, 89?

Of all the europe, Finns especially luhv to build oldies tho they are expensive to maintain and gas costs 4 times as much as in US.
Laws are looser in Sweden so they can do more special HotRods..

Oh yeah , you gotta find shops that will pass your inspection, you gonna get tickets for loud exhausts etc. Its all a bunch of bullshit over here. Its just like "comes with the territory".

I read Car Kulture Deluxe magazine, and I think they covered a few hot rods events in Finland, so I know they are into it over there. (Australia too) Kulture is more 50's stuff , but I know what you mean, theres definatly a scene for cars there.

http://www.overdrive.fi/
http://www.backtoroots.net/

mouse · Vociferator Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 740

It's a fucking semi with a bed.

Heh, that was exactly my first thought when i seen it. Depending on the motor they use... those internationals are like 300hp and 1000ft-lbs torque. I checked a few of the motor specs. You could drive uphill with a heavy load like it was nothing. Probably idle thru a brick wall.

Big Evil Ogre · Apocrisiary Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 44

It should have had a 350 in it, though a lot of those Firbirds had a 305. I beleive that year came after they started fitting all Pontiacs with Chevy V8s, though Icould be wrong. If it's the 305 it's pretty underpowered because for emissions purposes they ground the crank's timing slot for the woodruff keyto retard the timing valve timing. I don't think they did that to the 350s.
If I had to choose an engine to drop in that Firebird I'd go with 377 CI mall block Chevy with a nice multi port fuel injection and around a 277 degree hydraulic roller cam, with a 700R4 auto trans and a 3.73 rear posi. that'd be a good reliable driver with plenty of power to be fun, but not so much power you have to fight it to keep in control.

I agree. That's a good setup he has.

Well I know its 9:1 compression on the motor, I know he runs usually just 87 octane, sometimes 89... and from what he said , he gets 18mpg highway , which isnt bad considering the performance overall.
You said you had a prob with your leg for the shifting, you could look into an automatic and put a shift kit in it. You can get that real hard shift like it was stick. If he really really jumps on it hes chirped the tires into 3rd before with that.

Or even better since you race your car - get a transmission lock.

>That 6X2 setup had to be wild! A nightmare to tune I imagine but once in tune a nice setup, and hot looking.

I don't have much experience, so building the linkage for that would be a bitch. What I wanted, tho (and this is just day dreaming but.. ) I wanted to have 6 holes in the hood and 6 velocity stacks or 6 frog mouth (modified - extended) scoops coming off the carbs thru the hood .. paint it flat black and leave all the stainless steel and chrome trim on. maybe skirt the rear tires and lower it. Its a big 60s 4-door family sedan. '64 Super 88

>I had wanted Holborn fuel injection for the 1929 Dodge I'm building, but I know nutzing about it, so I'm going with tri power in it. Three dueces on a Pontiac 389 out of a 61 Bonneville. TH350 out of a Ventura, 1975 Camaro front clip...
It will be hot hot hot!

Thats what was in the early GTO's right ? tri-power 389? It'll be very nice.

Donny should wedge that type of motor into that firebird. :)
I forget what those formulas had in them .. hell I dont even know offhand what year firebird KITT was, 89?

Of all the europe, Finns especially luhv to build oldies tho they are expensive to maintain and gas costs 4 times as much as in US.
Laws are looser in Sweden so they can do more special HotRods..

Oh yeah , you gotta find shops that will pass your inspection, you gonna get tickets for loud exhausts etc. Its all a bunch of bullshit over here. Its just like "comes with the territory".

I read Car Kulture Deluxe magazine, and I think they covered a few hot rods events in Finland, so I know they are into it over there. (Australia too) Kulture is more 50's stuff , but I know what you mean, theres definatly a scene for cars there.

http://www.overdrive.fi/
http://www.backtoroots.net/