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It may be just me, but...
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m_estrugo
Venter
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 222

Posted: 10/31/2004 7:19:17 PM     Post subject: It may be just me, but...  

... well, to be honest, it seems like CYD is slowly degenerating.

I mean, when I came around, insightful messages and articles were somewhat common. CYD was more or less a reference site with lots of material and opinions about why the furry fandom became into what it became.

A sizeable percentage of the posters were ex-furries, from the earlier times, so those messages I liked to read were written by people that knew what they were writing about. Messages abounded with memories from past times (both for the better and the worse) and included lots of references outside of CYD's site.

I'm not going to hide the fact that there was a lot of silliness and such on the messages posted a while ago. However, most of the times that silliness was 'on the point', and most posters wouldn't forget a topic's main point. In other words, it was rather hard to see a thread to go off-topic.

The situation is slowly changing. On-topic messages are much scarcer than they were a while ago. As of late, there's been a lot of "Feh" threads with bazillions of follow-up messages. Those threads are usually off-topic, off-point and even off-text (the latest fashion is to feature a photoshopped image as a reply to a message; a trend probably inspired on other sites) and they're sometimes funny... but, most of the times, they're just a lot of incoherent, pointless blabber.

To me, it's a little shocking to see those threads to pop up and see how many people behave on them. L33t speaking, and general childness are rampant on those threads. Threads with contents like this:

what
what
what


It's just me, and my opinion... but I guess CYD may be getting way too stupid to worth a visit.
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Undercover Agent Zenu
Recusant
Joined: 30 Oct 2004
Posts: 13

Posted: 10/31/2004 8:14:01 PM     Post subject:  

Being that CYD only has about a half-dozen 'regulars', and that they tend to get bored and, yes, silly, does not change the forum all that much - good posts are still few and far between - the only difference is that there are more updates on the forums... even if they're fairly pointless.

I honestly can see where you're coming from, but I don't really see what reason there is to complain: If we have nothing to discuss or bitch about, what are we supposed to do? Manufacure reasons? That's more of a SomethingAwful/PoE thing, in my experience.
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Anonymous
Vociferator
Joined: 01 Jun 2003
Posts: 766

Posted: 10/31/2004 9:01:49 PM     Post subject:  

what
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BAliBASE
Rasophore
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 52

Posted: 10/31/2004 9:08:48 PM     Post subject:  

If you think things are heading down hill, make a concerted effort to fix things. Every forum eventually gets newbies, but it's ability to survive depends on its users' ability to deal with any influx that disrupts the "balance". Educate them! Remind people on occasion to keep on topic! Create topics that will have a longer lifespan and won't go off topic! Do something besides bitch about it!

I find it pretty funny that you're complaining the off topic forum is too stupid, as well. Apparently you have never been to most major forums on the internet. Sometimes acting "childish" is a good way to release the pressure of being an adult the rest of the time.

Edited for politeness.
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m_estrugo
Venter
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 222

Posted: 10/31/2004 9:12:58 PM     Post subject:  

Being that CYD only has about a half-dozen 'regulars' and that they tend to get bored and, yes, silly, does not change the forum all that much - good posts are still few and far between - the only difference is that there are more updates on the forums... even if they're fairly pointless.

Whoa. Half a dozen 'regulars'!?
I don't quite understand what you mean with this. Do you really mean "active posters"? Do you mean "Posters that usually post messages to the threads you read"? Or maybe you mean "Posters that post at least once per day?"
'Cause, you know, there's a nifty utility on this board that lets you check all the registered members. And, as fallible as that tool may be, you can easily check that:
1) There are 230 members on this forum.
2) From those, 210 ever posted at least a message.
(...)
3) From those, 43 managed to post at least 50 messages.
4) From those, 29 managed to post at least 100 messages.

It's true, many people left, due to a reason or another. But there's still a sizeable amount of people posting on this forum quite often.

And I'm afraid one of these reasons may be that the board is becoming too stupid.

Trust me, between a half-empty forum and another forum full with stupidity, I'll ALWAYS prefer the half-empty one.

I honestly can see where you're coming from, but I don't really see what reason there is to complain: If we have nothing to discuss or bitch about, what are we supposed to do? Manufacure reasons? That's more of a SomethingAwful/PoE thing, in my experience.

There's no reason to manufacture reasons or whatever. Still, I don't understand why some people WON'T shut up even if they've got nothing to say. there may be some attempt to look funny, or witty, or sharp... but, dammit, that kind of humor gets old, quite old, after a few attempts. :b
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BAliBASE
Rasophore
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 52

Posted: 10/31/2004 9:18:56 PM     Post subject:  

Still, I don't understand why some people WON'T shut up even if they've got nothing to say. there may be some attempt to look funny, or witty, or sharp... but, dammit, that kind of humor gets old, quite old, after a few attempts. :b


Maybe they're trying to get rid of the tepid activity of the forum. I like to go to a forum where there's a least ONE NEW COMMENT A DAY. Any fewer and it's a waste of time.

Edit: You said you didn't care if things were silly as long as it's on topic. We'll make things on topic so you will not complain about how we all suck now.
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Mitch
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Joined: 01 Jun 2003
Posts: 362

Posted: 10/31/2004 10:50:17 PM     Post subject:  

If you think things are heading down hill, make a concerted effort to fix things. Every forum eventually gets newbies, but it's ability to survive depends on its users' ability to deal with any influx that disrupts the "balance". Educate them! Remind people on occasion to keep on topic! Create topics that will have a longer lifespan and won't go off topic! Do something besides bitch about it!

I have been far too lax, is the problem. Plenty of people have joined the forum and fit in very nicely. Those who don't or can't or won't, I should have kicked as soon as the fact they were idiots became apparent. The only way to keep any forum in order is to ruthlessly exclude people who don't fit in. No warnings, no PMs, just a firm wielding of the banhammer.
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Paul
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Joined: 01 Feb 2004
Posts: 297

Posted: 10/31/2004 11:59:52 PM     Post subject:  

Still, I don't understand why some people WON'T shut up even if they've got nothing to say. there may be some attempt to look funny, or witty, or sharp... but, dammit, that kind of humor gets old, quite old, after a few attempts. :b

Maybe they're trying to get rid of the tepid activity of the forum. I like to go to a forum where there's a least ONE NEW COMMENT A DAY. Any fewer and it's a waste of time.

I think there's a fair amount of good comments and insightful discussion here still. But I see what Estrugo means - there's been an influx of irrelevant stupidity lately. The good stuff is still here, it's just that in the last few weeks it got to the point where you had to wade through irrelevant crap posts to get to the good bits. I'm glad to hear Mitch is pulling out the artillery. And I for one am glad to see SquareSoft0 gone; that guy posted the vast majority of the irrelevant crap posts that was cluttering up perfectly good threads.
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Undercover Agent Zenu
Recusant
Joined: 30 Oct 2004
Posts: 13

Posted: 11/1/2004 1:54:30 AM     Post subject:  

Whoa. Half a dozen 'regulars'!?
I don't quite understand what you mean with this. Do you really mean "active posters"? Do you mean "Posters that usually post messages to the threads you read"? Or maybe you mean "Posters that post at least once per day?"


I mean that there are at most, about six folks who have something to say that's worthwhile. Many folks just read without having anything to submit - and the recent influx of stupidity as been a bit fun at times - but yes, is mostly just retarded.

It seems that Mitch means business when he said he's going to start wielding the 'banhammer'. It's nice that he's willing to take a proactive response - although, yes, it is cutting down on the noise:signal ratio - it's still going to be fairly empty here.

Ah well. I guess it might be the lesser of evils.
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MagKnightX
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Joined: 04 Dec 2003
Posts: 286

Posted: 11/1/2004 2:45:12 AM     Post subject:  

no u :oops:
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BAliBASE
Rasophore
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 52

Posted: 11/1/2004 7:00:50 AM     Post subject:  

I have been far too lax, is the problem. Plenty of people have joined the forum and fit in very nicely. Those who don't or can't or won't, I should have kicked as soon as the fact they were idiots became apparent. The only way to keep any forum in order is to ruthlessly exclude people who don't fit in. No warnings, no PMs, just a firm wielding of the banhammer.


Good call on that one. Sorry if I went too off topic here and there, I'll be good now. :o
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Quantum Coyote
Prattler
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 143

Posted: 11/1/2004 3:20:09 PM     Post subject:  

Err, I have a question, more of a comment really. When your main forum is sub-titled "General blabbering and lip-flappery." it doesn't sound like you EXPECT everything to meet a high standard. Maybe I'm just putting too much creedence into formalities. And of course you could have a forum "Knitting For Fun" wherein all you talk about are formula one racecars, it IS a private board, I'm not discounting that.
Well, I'm hoping CYD isn't 'slowly degenerating', and hoping as well that I have had little part in said degeneration if it is occuring. This is (as far as I know) quite a unique place and I would hope it can continue to be a beacon of rationality(well, most of the time :) in this furry jungle of an internet.
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Donotsue
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Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 310

Posted: 11/1/2004 6:07:51 PM     Post subject:  

How bout we all take some time off... =)

Mitch puts this on Auto Cruise mode so that the forum plays itself from the beginning. =)

Then noobies can just follow it all and we, the old timers, come back in 18 months!
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ZenZhu
Needs to get out more
Joined: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 897

Posted: 11/1/2004 6:48:14 PM     Post subject:  

In the recent influx of newbies, we've had some real winners and some real losers. Given the associations this site is misinterpreted to have with PoE and SA, it's unsurprising we'll see a few "Furries suxx0rz" folks. We've also seen a few that are at least mildly part of the problems we speak of that have felt some need to come on here and attempt to gain our approval by insisting they're not "that kind" of furry. Still, there are a few new folks that seem to be finding their footing here.

Maybe CYD isn't necessarily going downhill. Maybe we're just getting punchy.. like you do after a long road trip or something. You can't expect looking at images that make you want to bleach your eyeballs to not take a toll. Furthermore, as we learn more about each other here, I think it's natural to want some form of interaction that doesn't revolve around bashing or at least discussing furries.

I think, also, that one can only talk/analyze/bash furries for so long before you either get used to it all, or get whatever it was that bugs you about furries out of your system. Let's face it.. we're not really going to figure out what makes them tick. We can come up with some good theories and some close approximations, but we'll never really understand why they do what they do. I think some of us here originally came here to simply understand why we did what we did when we were doing what they do... de doo doo doo de da da da.

I also think that you can only mock the antics of folks for so long before you start to wonder if you're moving on into simple mean-spiritedness. Furries provide a lot of stuff that's mockworthy.. but, after a while, you start to see that it really doesn't amount to a hill of beans. As long as minors, animals, and such aren't being harmed.... it really doesn't matter if two beardy sacks of flesh want to dress up in diapers and wolf ears. Sure, we may find it completely laughable... but our own unique interests are not necessarily any better or worse. And with folks like Kimmaugh.. they provide a source of comedy, but mocking them is really like shooting fish in a barrel.

Once you reach a point where you've seen enough dicks flying away into the mouths of carnivorous, six-breasted herm plants..... you haven't necessarily seen it all, but you've seen enough that things start to lose their shock value. At that point, there's only so many more times you can go "OMG MY EYES!" You can only deconstruct so many shitty comics before you see they're all fairly equally crappy, and not necessarily worth discussing. That doesn't mean it isn't still fun... but when you hash through the same comments time and again for different subjects, you'll eventually be able to boil down your reactions to a few words, or even an image link. You're not saying anything you haven't said before... so why spell it out in detail again.

Basically, you can only pound your head against a wall for so long before you pass out or get loopy from the concussion.

For myself, I'm reaching a point of "peace" with furries. As long as we're not talking about pedophiles or animal molesters, I can agree to disagree. I may think the idea of a "wolf trapped in a human's body" is complete and utter bullshit.... but, if someone wants to convince themselves that's the reason they can't hold a job or find a girl.... well.. I suppose the only harm it's doing me is they're sponging off my tax dollars. Of course, there's plenty of non-wolf souls out there doing that. If someone wants to fuck Barney the Dinosaur... well.. what the hay. Sure, I wish I could purge my mind of the knowledge of these things. I wish I could reclaim all of those hours I spent doodling in my sketchbook trying to figure out "what animal really fits me." But, y'know, I can't. So, if these dinguses want to flock to California once a year to buttfuck each other in Tigger costumes, it's no skin off my nose. If they want to whine about their bad image and do nothing to salvage it.... it's annoying, but I can learn to ignore it. So, while this place is still fun, the thrill is kind of gone. I figure I will be too, eventually. But, in the meantime, this lull is not only unsurprising, I figure it's probably a logical progression of events.
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Computolio
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Joined: 01 Jun 2003
Posts: 462

Posted: 11/2/2004 2:39:26 AM     Post subject:  

The site's whole approach to the subject of making fun of furries needs a rework. Saying "hey furries are fatass losers" is about as old as anime sites trying to make fun of hentai by saying "rape is bad/nuke japan/etc." We're going to need to work hard to come up with something a hell of a lot more original... and frankly I don't think I was ever up to the task.

By the way, I'm also totally in favor of shutting the forums down for a while. There's some real problems here that need working out.
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M0us3_Zero
Venter
Joined: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 278

Posted: 11/2/2004 5:10:54 AM     Post subject:  

You know, this place could easily be more about comedy than anything else. I know there just have to be some shining Jems in this field of coal that is the Furry Fandom. Perhaps we should, at least once in a while, show off some good stuff.

I'm all for just trying to shoot for more quality, but, then again some of the off-topic stuff is quite funny. It's a good laugh at the end of a long day.

I can't really say much else. Since when I had first arrived at this site's doorsteps, I was just curious about the Furry culture. I didn't trust those within it itself, since it did seem like alot of drama. At least here I could see all sides of the matter and put myself in the proper perspective.

So, I thank CYD for that. I just hope this place doesn't loose it's charm and get too stuffy or rigid. I like being here and you're a great bunch of guys. Seriously.
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what
Recusant
Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 4

Posted: 11/2/2004 5:21:53 AM     Post subject:  

Been a while apparently since I got banned, if it's about my bot it was meant to keep someone from stealing ops in the IRC channel, but didn't quite work out when I had to leave town for a friend's emergency. If it's about the bot I already got rid of it, if not then I'll just leave. Sorry for whatever it was that got me banned. -SquareSoft0
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mouse
Needs to get out more
Joined: 13 Jul 2003
Posts: 817

Posted: 11/2/2004 5:25:42 AM     Post subject:  

Been a while apparently since I got banned, if it's about my bot it was meant to keep someone from stealing ops in the IRC channel, but didn't quite work out when I had to leave town for a friend's emergency. If it's about the bot I already got rid of it, if not then I'll just leave. Sorry for whatever it was that got me banned. -SquareSoft0


I can only guess at you were banned for but I know for sure it wasnt the bot

re the bot tho:
The reasons I didnt op your bot was
1. I don't / didn't really know how
2. Its not my channel
3. When I said I was going out - I actually did leave that instant and wasn't back for like 3 hours.
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Undercover Agent Zenu
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Joined: 30 Oct 2004
Posts: 13

Posted: 11/2/2004 6:32:50 AM     Post subject:  

...SquareSoft0


I believe you were banned for acting like an ass on the forums. It's been done too much, and Mitch opted to make an example out of you, in hopes that you would stop posting worthless shit.
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mouse
Needs to get out more
Joined: 13 Jul 2003
Posts: 817

Posted: 11/2/2004 7:00:45 AM     Post subject:  

The site's whole approach to the subject of making fun of furries needs a rework. Saying "hey furries are fatass losers" is about as old as anime sites trying to make fun of hentai by saying "rape is bad/nuke japan/etc." We're going to need to work hard to come up with something a hell of a lot more original... and frankly I don't think I was ever up to the task.


Actually I think most of that that went on was on the forums, if anywhere. The articles and everything on the front page don't really say that.

I've always liked how CYD was a mix of humorous articles and commentary, and some more analytical stuff. Im not a writer and I cant really do 'funny', so I havent really made any effort to contribute to the site in that regard.

Its definately not easy.



Just in general, pertaining to the initial topic of this thread:

Its kind of funny to me that some of the people responsible for what Miguel is talking about seem to be the ones totally unaware of what he's talking about. And thats completely natural, nothing surprising (or even wrong) with that.

Someone brought up threads going way off topic and derailing.. but thats really not what he was refering to at all. Threads have always gone off topic here and its never really been a problem (other than OT political). Its more that this forum has always been a kind of free-for-all while at least maintaining some sort of IQ while doing it. You can, in many ways, be dumb as hell here as long you have something to say. Look at how many posts trolls and spazzing furries are allowed to have before the plug finally gets pulled.

To put this as mildly as I can at this point: clique humor is like in-jokes. No one other than the people involved get it. And theres some of that here - but what I refer to came (largely) from here. Hell, I don't even know what that "For the Love of Darkness!!" on here was all about. I must have missed that post somehow. For that matter this whole site is only going to be funny to people who know what furries are. To some guy who doesn't use the internet much, or watch CSI, these forum posts might as well be written in an alien language.

Some people go around to different forums thinking thier catchphrases and clique humor from other places is always going to fit right in because its just funny as hell. And its really not. Some places might be more conducive to it than others, but thats not the rule

just for an example ( I've never seen it here, tho Im sure I will now :) )

Apperently, to many, the size of the xbox was goddamn hilarious, but I have no idea why. And I really don't care, either. I have no problem not being 'with it' or just not getting something. Im sure that the xbox thing was laugh-your-balls-off-funny the first time ever someone said it. Maybe its just funny because it has no context at all - But I wasnt there that time and the 50th time later I hear it... its just fucking annoying by that point. Its precisely the reason why a lot of people hate when someone yells out "I'm Rick James, Bitch!" or any other quote from Chappelle's show. (especially people who don't watch it, don't like it, and yet know exactly what it is)

Theres a bunch of people here who do like that kind of humor, thats cool - but too much, too often and its going to rub everyone else the wrong way - thats all. Anything in small doses is fine, but it seems its been somewhat excessive lately.
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what
Recusant
Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 4

Posted: 11/2/2004 12:51:02 PM     Post subject:  

Well right now I do know what he was talking about, but in my opinion it isn't too important to stay on topic or stay out of the stupid-shit zone in a forum with the word 'yiff' in its name. I'm going to go with my 'what' thing topping off what had been a trail of stupid-shit posts of mine. I would really rather not have this tension and would most likely give up on posting unless I had something pertinent to the situation if Mitch would give me a second chance. If not, it's his forum and he can do whatever he wants.
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Quantum Coyote
Prattler
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 143

Posted: 11/2/2004 3:56:25 PM     Post subject:  

Well right now I do know what he was talking about, but in my opinion it isn't too important to stay on topic or stay out of the stupid-shit zone in a forum with the word 'yiff' in its name.


I dunno man, if you can't appreciate the humor of the title (and it is humorous in several ways, as well as being informative about the intentions of most of the folks here) you should really.. you.. ugghh.. I was about to insert expletives and put downs, but these damn bleedin' heart genes of mine just make me feel a bit sorry for you.
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Kadius
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Joined: 10 Feb 2004
Posts: 370

Posted: 11/2/2004 8:14:59 PM     Post subject: Not meaining to be an ass, but...  

Been a while apparently since I got banned, if it's about my bot it was meant to keep someone from stealing ops in the IRC channel, but didn't quite work out when I had to leave town for a friend's emergency. If it's about the bot I already got rid of it, if not then I'll just leave. Sorry for whatever it was that got me banned. -SquareSoft0
The following actions may get you banned:

"HIYA GUYS I'M NEW HERE" type posts. Please..... don't.
Regaling us with the tedious minutiae of your lives.
Posting links to copyright infringing material and/or Bittorrents.
Posting anyone's personal details, such as address, phone number, etcetera.
Importing fannish grudges from elsewhere that nobody else knows zip about, like how {insert furry artist name} stabbed you in the back when he/she refused to draw your hermskunktaur back in 1991.
Including gigantic table-breaking images in your posts because I begrudge the 30 seconds of my life it takes to edit them out.
Posting NSFW (Not Safe For Work) imagery. Just post a link instead.
Posting stupid damned image macros that we have all seen a million times before.
Trying to instigate forum/guestbook/Livejournal invasions.
Possession of annoying and/or obscene avatar images and/or .sigs.
Fucking stupid ONE LINE OMG ALL CAPS posts.
Posting offtopic crap outside the Off Topic forum which is there for a Goddamned reason. You know who you are.
Now, I'll be the first to admit that I've done 2 or 3 things on that list. But I believe the key is moderation. Also, I almost always resize pictures before I post them here. Because I remember what it was like before I got cable.
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Skunkfuckers Inc.
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Joined: 20 Jan 2004
Posts: 254

Posted: 11/3/2004 3:37:38 AM     Post subject: Re: Not meaining to be an ass, but...  

I was surprised SquareSoft0 got banned for that, though it was annoying. The key is you can get away with pretty much anything if it's funny, but those images were really unfunny crap. And for some reason he just started doing a lot of them in some pointless "OMG PWND JOO" themed campaign. Absolute shit.

I'm not sure why he did it, but if he was bored with the forums and just wanted to jerk off all over them then he should probably take a break from posting here anyway. No point in hanging around if this place doesn't hold any interest for you (I've thought about doing the same lately myself).
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ZenZhu
Needs to get out more
Joined: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 897

Posted: 11/3/2004 3:58:34 PM     Post subject:  

Importing fannish grudges from elsewhere that nobody else knows zip about, like how {insert furry artist name} stabbed you in the back when he/she refused to draw your hermskunktaur back in 1991.

Wasn't Square the one that kicked off his residency here with his grudge against Ken Sample, or was that someone else? I couldn't find the thread where that took place, so I couldn't jog my memory.
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Paul
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Joined: 01 Feb 2004
Posts: 297

Posted: 11/3/2004 4:34:10 PM     Post subject:  

Wasn't Square the one that kicked off his residency here with his grudge against Ken Sample, or was that someone else? I couldn't find the thread where that took place, so I couldn't jog my memory.

Naw, that was Big Evil Ogre, in this thread. And some read-worthy discussion came out of it still.
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Strychnine Velcro
Qualificator
Joined: 05 Oct 2004
Posts: 23

Posted: 11/4/2004 4:36:42 PM     Post subject:  

I enjoyed drawing and reading anthropomorphic stuff years before I had a computer. Perhaps if I'd discovered furry earlier than I did then I might have got involved in the fandom, perhaps it used to be something less creepy and obsessive. CYD has been my haven of sanity in a non-registered way for a long, long time, and it would be sad to see it shut down, but it would be equally sad to see it become clogged with inanity. I voluntarily decided to repent for my sins and lurk more, but you can't expect others to. Give people a second chance yeah, but not a third.
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creature
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Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 221

Posted: 11/5/2004 7:55:14 AM     Post subject:  


I have been far too lax, is the problem. Plenty of people have joined the forum and fit in very nicely. Those who don't or can't or won't, I should have kicked as soon as the fact they were idiots became apparent. The only way to keep any forum in order is to ruthlessly exclude people who don't fit in. No warnings, no PMs, just a firm wielding of the banhammer.


In some cases the people that don't or can't or wont have provent themselves very entertaining to screw with. Not that that is a bad thing, but still.
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