That guy wants too fucking much for hand coloring. $80 dollars for a commission someone else didn't want? Fuck that shit. I could get two commissions for that with three characters in the pic! As for coloring, the fandom seems like it's overflowing with so called color masters who would do it for free anyway..

That guy wants too fucking much for hand coloring. $80 dollars for a commission someone else didn't want? Fuck that shit. I could get two commissions for that with three characters in the pic! As for coloring, the fandom seems like it's overflowing with so called color masters who would do it for free anyway..

Tsk tsk tsk... Bad Hirtes, baaaaaad. Can no one please him?

http://www.livejournal.com/users/j3t/

Haven't been here in a while and J3T's journal reminded me of the great drama of this place (subject to opinion)

Great new icon up there with the banner by the way. It gives a visual hint of what the place is about for all the lazy people that can't read the FAQ or site.

Tsk tsk tsk... Bad Hirtes, baaaaaad. Can no one please him?

Aparrently not a shackeled siamese... or whatever the fuck that is.

Aparrently not a shackeled siamese... or whatever the fuck that is.

Whatever the fuck that is exactly! It was like a "Here! I have your money and now I drew you something you didn't want and I drew it halfassed after several weeks of keeping you waiting. Now I'm sending it to you and you have to take it whether you like it or not, because I'm teh ubbar artiste."

Uh, wha? I don't think so.

It looks nice. Not 80 dollars of nice, but it's kind of cute. But inquiring minds want to know: what did you ask her for?

Anyone who pays 80 bucks for furry porn deserves what they get.

Quick story: Artist takes money for commission, draws what they want (even if it wasn't what you had in mind) after goofing around for several weeks (how long does it take to draw a piece, anyway? It's not the like anyone asked them to paint a cathedral's ceiling, you know). Artist claims that following emails didn't reach her when told about unwanted art and tries to foist it on me anyway. Your's truly gets sick of it and asks for refund.

After the scamming I got from O'Connel and "Natasha Kat", I've adopted a Zero Tolerance Policy. If an artist starts to jerk around too long, I pull the plug. No way am I gonna go through that shit which can go on for months or maybe years. I couldn't even get my $$$ back via Paypal after getting ripped by NK because Stupid Me allowed more than 30 days to go by between payment ( alot of scammer artists count on this policy of Paypal's, it seems). After that hard lesson, I've decided that if a pic can't be done within 30 days, then they shouldn't be taking in commissions at all, should they?

I don't know why Hirtes didn't just pay her $80. He could have easily made that money back by selling prints of it, like he did for years with commisions he got from other artists.

That generally only worked once per artist, though.

The poor thing's worth more than what he paid me for. Took more time than needed.

Anyone who pays 80 bucks for furry porn deserves what they get.

Anyone who pays 80 bucks for furry porn deserves what they get.

I second this.

I don't get how someone who actually pays for drawings of salacious naked anthromorphs and PUBLISHED A FUCKING ZINE OF THEM has any place to bitch about the furry with as much vitriol as Hirtes seems to.

You've probably got some minor justification after getting shafted but don't have unreasonable expectations of artists.

Though I admit I think she's blowing it out of proportion a bit and I don't think the sketch is all that great myself.

I don't offer commisions for the very fact I'm not organised enough. But hey, she's going to do it anyway if she's usually getting around $80 a time no matter what. I don't blame her!

Looking at the picture in question, however, it still sounds like a case of just dicking around if it took more than 30 days to get to the point that is shown in the image on FurBid. That doesn't even look like what would be a finished piece.. that looks like a concept sketch. That's a finished piece for, like, $5.

Minor? Think several hundred dollars sprouting wings and flying away. That's no chump change.

I know. I've had to play "Whack-A-Mole" this weekend because she went to every form she could find (LJ, DA, VCL, etc.) shooting out her tampon. She must really be wrapped up in herself and her ubbar talents if she's going this batshit over a piddly ass drawing. And let's face it, DA. Do you think she really needs a month or more to put out something basic like that?

Sigh. Here comes that old "Once a furry, always a furry" schtick.

Sometimes I'd love to find a yearbook of each of these clowns, produce enlargements of their photos and mount them on foamboard, and ask them why they still aren't walking around looking like they did in their photos, mullet hair and all.

Sigh. Here comes that old "Once a furry, always a furry" schtick.

Sometimes I'd love to find a yearbook of each of these clowns, produce enlargements of their photos and mount them on foamboard, and ask them why they still aren't walking around looking like they did in their photos, mullet hair and all.

Hey man, I'm not the one who just recently shelled out $80 for a naked bondage cat, okay?

Hey bumbletard, I didn't shell out $80 either. You read it where she was asking $80 to stroke a colored marker over the pic a few times and call it "colored", and you assumed that I paid $80.

Before you try flaming me, perhaps you actually need to read the thread a little more thoroughly. One thing for you to be a flamer, but another when you're being a lazy flamer.

This whole thread is gay.

OMFG!!!11 HIRTES COMMISSIONED SOMETHING! THE HORROR! LOL!! HE IS TEH SUXOR!!

Hey Rankin, sort those typos!

OMFG!!!11 HIRTES COMMISSIONED SOMETHING! THE HORROR! LOL!! HE IS TEH SUXOR!!

IF IT WASN'T FOR HIRTES (and Sibe), THERE WOULDN'T BE AN UNDERGROUND FANDOM!

Still, dude, for being rehabbed, spanking it to furry pr0n does not strengthen your case. It just makes you seem more and more like a delusional 2 - only without the following.

who cares.

I don't.

I don't.

And you care so little that you have to tell us all that you don't care, right?

God, you're so easy, Michael. Trolling furries is easy, because they're hyper-sensitive, but you make normal furries look positively iron-plated because you're wrapped in dozens of layers of denial. Watching you have fights on newsgroups with other hyper-sensitive furries is like watching hemophiliacs duel with straight razors; the slightest nick and there's screaming and blood covering the walls.

But what I've never understood is why you keep coming back for more. Is it some kind of masochism? Some kind of hair-shirt thing? Do you feel the need to be scourged, in order to make up for the guilt you feel for spending years of your life distributing an animal-head stroke-book you hand-assembled on Xerox machines?

See, everybody here knows that you never quit being a furry, Michael, no matter how many times you post an "I JUST BURNED ALL MY FURRY PORN" thread. The fact that you can't drag yourself away from a.f.f., and you keep commissioning smut from artists over the internet, and all of the other proof... And that wouldn't be a bad thing, by itself. It's your steadfast denial of it that's absolutely hysterical, the way that you try to hang out with the "cool kids" on CYD to keep your "anti-furry cred" going, when everybody here is giggling at you behind your back.

By all means, keep it up, Michael. You're a riot. You're the "ex-gay" man at the Christian fellowship who preaches how homosexuality can be cured, but who keeps the secret stash of musclebuilding magazines in his dresser drawer. It's not the gay that's funny, Michael, it's the denial, and you've got that in absolute spades.

Frakenstein never quite grasped the good things about fire. :(

Anthro Art: Good

Furry Fandom: Bad

But Michael, you are Furry Fandom.

Even the Great Wall of China isn't long enough to put all of those whom I want to put up against a wall.

And porn. 'Cause, you know, you invented the pornographic furry 'zine. God knows furry fandom wouldn't be where it is today without you, the Grandfather of Furry Pornography.

Did I forget anything? I'm taking suggestions.

Something about how CYD isn't AFF

Something about how CYD isn't AFF

Whenever Mike says something about how CYD isn't AFF, you take a shot.

Something about how CYD isn't AFF

Whenever Mike says something about how CYD isn't AFF, you take a shot.

At the rate things are going, you'll be swigging less.

I have a suggestion: When are you going to stfu? That's what I've been wanting to do, if you'd just let me.

Here, I'll demonstrate how easy it is and not post again in this thread. I know you have this desperate need to have the last word in these sorts of meaningless confrontations, so you can have it if you want it. But really, I think you should show some willpower and resist the urge. It might be the beginning of a new Golden Age for a.f.f., in which threads actually end.

you win at the internet

Mmmm... windshield bacon.

Seriously, there's four things you could acquire that would eventually arm you against the need for most commissions:

"How to Draw the Human Figure" by Jack Hamm
"How to Draw Animals" by Jack Hamm
"Dynamic Figure Drawing" by Burne Hogarth
"How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way" by Stan Lee

So many years ago when I still thought that furrydom was harmless eccentrics instead of the hopelessly mentally damaged people they tend to be, I toyed with the idea of a furry art agency of sorts where commissions and money for said commissions pass through the agency, money goes to escrow, and nothing changes hands to the final end people until all conditions previously contractually agreed upon are met.

*Turnaround time for the concept sketch

*Terms and conditions stating that once the concept sketch is approved by the client, the final piece will be based on that. This helps avoid the "Oh.. I just changed my character's design. I have red stripes instead of blue ones now. Can you change the pic to reflect that? What do you mean you already colored the stripes???"

*Estimated time of completion once the concept sketch is approved - genereally based on consideration of the artist's current schedules and workload. All possible negotiations of time to be made up front, so the client knows the turnaround might take 7 weeks instead of 5 because the artist will be going on vacation or something.

*A statement outlining that, occasionally, time considerations may have to be renegotiated to allow for unexpected events, and that all changes will be discussed between the artist and client to reach a mutually agreeable solution.

*A statement providing the client with protection if the artist takes too long, and outlines what steps would be necessary to dissolve the contract and obtain a refund... for, example, if the original time frame was estimated to be 5 weeks, and it had to go to renegotiations to extend the deadline to 7 weeks, then, if the client is being put off again at the 7 week mark, they may want to start considering a refund. The protocols would have to be established by the agency's operators. Most clients would probably be fairly flexible, but, in the case where someone starts making unrealistic time demands, the artist is also protected from total loss. Basically, if the job falls apart for one reason or another, there are procedures in place that help determine who is at fault for the difficulties and what kind of protection each party is afforded. That way, artists can't dick clients around for increasingly large amounts of time, but clients can't pull their funding just because they got impatient. They have to do A, B and C before a refund will be issued.

*Maybe some allowance for partial refunds to help cover the artist's time. If the artist just completely jerks off, the client may have a full refund coming. But, if something just didn't work out.... the client decided to pull the plug halfway through the job... the artist had a family emergency that put things off longer than the client wanted.. etc... a mutually agreeable solution can be attempted. Maybe like they get a 2/3 refund if the work was pencilled, but not inked or colored.. 1/3 if it was pencilled and inked, but not colored, etc... and they get the work in its current state.

Those are just a few considerations.

Let's not engage in it here either. There's more than enough at alt.fan.furry and the thought of people here continuing to reactionarily act the same makes me wonder what the whole point of CYD is if everyone acts like a furry. Maybe forums all have that degenerating effect on people. But I'd like to think the majority here can practice some self control and not allow themselves to sink to that AOL-ish behaviour.

People with those good qualities (some would say baseline average capabilities of Homo Sapiens Sapiens) should be able to deal with each other without such things.

Besides, furries don't see themselves as subject to such things. We'd end up with 90% of the contracts going to court, and small claims court at that.

Besides, furries don't see themselves as subject to such things. We'd end up with 90% of the contracts going to court, and small claims court at that.

Four words that back up that suspicion: DON'T FORGET MY INTERNET!!!

http://www.livejournal.com/users/j3t/

Haven't been here in a while and J3T's journal reminded me of the great drama of this place (subject to opinion)

Great new icon up there with the banner by the way. It gives a visual hint of what the place is about for all the lazy people that can't read the FAQ or site.

Oh yeah. Was wondering when it would reach the CYD realm. LiveJournal never ceases to impress me with it's drama.

Quick story: Artist takes money for commission, draws what they want (even if it wasn't what you had in mind) after goofing around for several weeks (how long does it take to draw a piece, anyway? It's not the like anyone asked them to paint a cathedral's ceiling, you know). Artist claims that following emails didn't reach her when told about unwanted art and tries to foist it on me anyway. Your's truly gets sick of it and asks for refund.

After the scamming I got from O'Connel and "Natasha Kat", I've adopted a Zero Tolerance Policy. If an artist starts to jerk around too long, I pull the plug. No way am I gonna go through that shit which can go on for months or maybe years. I couldn't even get my $$$ back via Paypal after getting ripped by NK because Stupid Me allowed more than 30 days to go by between payment ( alot of scammer artists count on this policy of Paypal's, it seems). After that hard lesson, I've decided that if a pic can't be done within 30 days, then they shouldn't be taking in commissions at all, should they?

Yeah, I know I'm being an hardass, but I refuse to be a sucker ever again, especially by a furry artist who has a very lopsided view of the deal between themselves and their clients. Isn't anyone else getting tired of shelling out money up front to artists and then waiting around forever while they take their own sweet time sitting around, doodling random sketches in front of the TV, even doing commissions for other people who ordered after you? Would you put up with that kind of crap if you were asking for a PC or house to be built?

So like I said, I got fed up with her crap, asked for a refund (which I did get), and regarded that to be the end of that. Deal gone bad. Money returned. Parted ways. Fini, right?

Hello? This is furry fandumb, remember?

I later find out that she was whining on her LJ and threatens horrible, bashing vengence upon me. Then, after I dropped LJ's TOS on her ass, she's now taking a "Oh, this isn't worth my time and I'm chuckling" spin. Uh huh. Right.

As I know it now, J3T turns out to be yet another LJ-posting whiner and drama queen who rages to her little clique about the big bad Hirtes. Apparently, she's not used to her customers showing some backbone. How fucking dare I not know my place, huh?

I heard about her before in a cruel.com link. Seems she has a track record of being snotty to people (go to http://www.cruel.com/archive.php/2002/11 and scroll down to the "No Fury Like A Furry Scorned" link).

Oh well. Another furry hates Hirtes. Take a fucking number, bitch. :twisted:

Tsk tsk tsk... Bad Hirtes, baaaaaad. Can no one please him?

Aparrently not a shackeled siamese... or whatever the fuck that is.

Whatever the fuck that is exactly! It was like a "Here! I have your money and now I drew you something you didn't want and I drew it halfassed after several weeks of keeping you waiting. Now I'm sending it to you and you have to take it whether you like it or not, because I'm teh ubbar artiste."

Uh, wha? I don't think so.

Besides, furries don't see themselves as subject to such things. We'd end up with 90% of the contracts going to court, and small claims court at that.

Four words that back up that suspicion: DON'T FORGET MY INTERNET!!!

So, now you're admitting to pedophilia? That cat thing did look kind of young, but I'm rather certain that Dive/Shaw likes little boys. ;)

Isn't Ebonyleopard with us anymore? =)

Read the posts more thoroughly now, and I've gotta ask, cause I've always wondered and since I have not interest in this sorta stuff, just what is it that makes people like Bondage Bob and well, heh Harem Mike want to have pictures of furry females either tied up or subjugated anyway? What's the appeal?

Read the posts more thoroughly now, and I've gotta ask, cause I've always wondered and since I have not interest in this sorta stuff, just what is it that makes people like Bondage Bob and well, heh Harem Mike want to have pictures of furry females either tied up or subjugated anyway? What's the appeal?

Kind of odd you'd be puzzled as to why a person might be into something so... mainstream. I'd say as far as sexual things go bondage has gone from "fetish", to "kinky", to intimate dinner conversation pretty quickly over the decades.

Many average couples do the bondage thing, and for them it's really about trust. Yes there's a thrill to be the one relinquishing power to another, but you wouldn't be doing that unless you trusted the other person. The same is true for the dominate one; he or she knows just how far to take it and is careful not to really hurt or frighten their partner.

There's also the emotionaly liberating qualities of being physicaly bound. Whaaaat? Yes, it can be freeing to be tied up and helpless, where you can just let yourself go and let the other person take control. Some prefer that, while others like to be the ones in control, and still others (I think most) like to take turns to varying degrees.


But you were talking about something slightly less romantic?

Harem = lots of women = male presiding over a bunch of hot females. Classic King of the Castle alpha male type desire, plus that'd be a whole lot of juicy poontang at your beck and call wouldn't it?

Subjugation = dominance over a female. Could point to a shortcoming in a male's psyche (if it's a full-blown fetish), but I think goes back to the true 'root of all evil' that lies in all of us; see, want, have. In some case could be a reflection of the culture the man is a part of (Japan, the Middle East, etc.).

Either one of these can get into dangerous misogynistic extremes like rape fantasy, sexual imprisonment, humiliation, but in their most basic forms are fairly down-to-earth vanilla flavors of kinkiness. You should be able to figure the rest out on your own.

So when people dress up in sick rubber Gimp outfits once inna while, it's a kink...
But if they do it all the while, it's a fetish? =)

I just have few measily boring kinks then... and they don't involve humiliating wimmen... even if I am somewhat a chauvinist pig! =)
... for women's equality usually involves opressing the men!

Sorry D, got caught up with life off of the net, but my "Furry-senses" were tingling and knew something dumb must have been posted here.

Read the posts more thoroughly now, and I've gotta ask, cause I've always wondered and since I have not interest in this sorta stuff, just what is it that makes people like Bondage Bob and well, heh Harem Mike want to have pictures of furry females either tied up or subjugated anyway? What's the appeal?

EDIT 2: Hirtes, offers of free porn still stand. Show me your darkest desires, you big hairy old man you. You don't trust me? I understand. You've been burned. But you can trust me. And it free, I not lie. I take your details and draw you something, ok? I explain I not problam with bondoge, I draw that dn other stuff if you want. What you details say, right? I make real prefesional picture for you.

So, now you're admitting to pedophilia?

So, now you're admitting to pedophilia?

Uh, wha? :shock:

So, now you're admitting to pedophilia?

Uh, wha? :shock:

"Don't forget my Internet', AKA DiveFox is a known baby raper. His name is William Shaw, and he lives in Topeka, KS, last I heard.

That would be one of these two fellows then, I take it?

Egads.. why is a baby raper allowed to partake in furcons... are the furs only people who don't beat the shit out of them?

Oh, would this be the Otter Nekobe wanted to yiff? =)

http://www.furtropolis.com/~arcturax/Morphicon2004/Morphicon2004-Images/88.jpg

That would be one of these two fellows then, I take it?

The one on the right. He was actually on Judge Mathis (that crappy ripoff of People's Court). Mathis forced him to pay back his ex-roommates who he leeched off of, and coined Don't forget my internet!

That would be one of these two fellows then, I take it?

The one on the right. He was actually on Judge Mathis (that crappy ripoff of People's Court). Mathis forced him to pay back his ex-roommates who he leeched off of, and coined Don't forget my internet!

So when people dress up in sick rubber Gimp outfits once inna while, it's a kink...
But if they do it all the while, it's a fetish? =)

I just have few measily boring kinks then... and they don't involve humiliating wimmen... even if I am somewhat a chauvinist pig! =)
... for women's equality usually involves opressing the men!

Sorry D, got caught up with life off of the net, but my "Furry-senses" were tingling and knew something dumb must have been posted here.

Or, that you're just another furrydumb shark that smelled blood in the water.

Read the posts more thoroughly now, and I've gotta ask, cause I've always wondered and since I have not interest in this sorta stuff, just what is it that makes people like Bondage Bob and well, heh Harem Mike want to have pictures of furry females either tied up or subjugated anyway? What's the appeal?

Sorry to inform you that not everyone has a kink for X-Men ripoffs either, buddy. If you're going to be mocking people for their own particular tastes in art, then you're gonna be a very busy little boy. It's the bland-ass ones who don't have a particular preference that you should be concerned about.

OOOh. Yeah, I saw that one! That's the guy that rolled over his friends car and didn't think he had any obligation to pay for it right?

(Anyway, what were you getting so mad about the commission for anyway. I mean, it's not like you'd have been burned out of money you worked for anyway. It was free cash.)

(Anyway, what were you getting so mad about the commission for anyway. I mean, it's not like you'd have been burned out of money you worked for anyway. It was free cash.)

I wish someone would invent an emoticon that represents "ignore".

Maybe this will just have to do till then. :roll:

TUBER HERO HEARD DIVE FOX PUNCHED A GUY AT ANTHROCON 2002 ONCE

THEY GOT IT ON VIDEO




SHIT WAS HEINOUS

Shawntae, pretend to be a lost harem girl. Put on a burka and gold. He might try to marry you. :twisted:

TUBER HERO HEARD DIVE FOX PUNCHED A GUY AT ANTHROCON 2002 ONCE

THEY GOT IT ON VIDEO




SHIT WAS HEINOUS

TUBER HERO HEARD DIVE FOX PUNCHED A GUY AT ANTHROCON 2002 ONCE

THEY GOT IT ON VIDEO




SHIT WAS HEINOUS

Actually. No. DiveFox was the one getting hit. AC dance, he was being a dick. Someone he was stalking had a collar and chain on, and he decided to attempt to be a Dom. Didn't work out for him as he ended up on his ass.

TUBER HERO HEARD DIVE FOX PUNCHED A GUY AT ANTHROCON 2002 ONCE

THEY GOT IT ON VIDEO




SHIT WAS HEINOUS

Actually. No. DiveFox was the one getting hit. AC dance, he was being a dick. Someone he was stalking had a collar and chain on, and he decided to attempt to be a Dom. Didn't work out for him as he ended up on his ass.

Diazynon: I AM NOT VERIX GET BACK IN MY CHAT I HAVE QUESTIONS FOR YOU
Jamie Forius: no
Diazynon: ok then at least answer my questions for you on the internet
Jamie Forius: ok
Diazynon: I actually only have one question and it is the details of your beating up of one person, namely rootdown, aka myself, at some furry con I never went to
Jamie Forius: I punched your nigger ass in the face
Jamie Forius: I hit you in the face, and I have video to prove it.
Diazynon: ok I would like to see it please
Jamie Forius: Now, Mr Root, would you like to leave me alone, or do I have to kill you?
Diazynon: no I need to see this video
Jamie Forius: Maybe you don't understand
Diazynon: ok go on I have lots of time
Jamie Forius: I had no problem breaking your nose at AC
Diazynon: sir
Diazynon: it is logistically impossible for you to have punched me at a furry con I never went to
Jamie Forius: then, Mr. Brian Root, of California, how did you come to be in front of my fist when I hit you at Anthrocon?
Diazynon: THIS IS WHAT I AM DYING TO KNOW
Jamie Forius: You tell me
Jamie Forius: You're not the one who hit you; the burden of proof is on you
Diazynon: dude I saw you on that judge mathis video you can't even move your arm fast enough to throw a viable punch
Diazynon: you don't even know what I look like
Jamie Forius: And for the record, this is being LOGGED and posted for ALL THE WORLD TO SEE on chasersystems.com
Diazynon: oh man you are awesome
Jamie Forius: And that Mathis episode was after I had a brain injury.
Jamie Forius: Have you no respect for the crippled?
Diazynon: actually, no
Jamie Forius: You're a mental cripple, anyhow
Diazynon: so I have a question for you
Diazynon: another question anyway
Jamie Forius: I don't play with those weaker than me
Diazynon: if you know where I live
Diazynon: and you know where I live, correct?
Diazynon: please tell me you know where I live
Jamie Forius: Starblade showed me your house, yes
Diazynon: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Jamie Forius: One problem. I live in Australia.
Diazynon: starblade has never been to my house
Diazynon: DIVE FOX I LIVE IN A COLLEGE DORM
Diazynon: I LIVE IN A COLLEGE DORM AT CSU MONTEREY BAY YOU BUMBLING RETARD
Jamie Forius: *shrugs* I just have the information I am given, and now I know where you live.
Jamie Forius: *shrugs*
Diazynon: ok I will leave you alone now please don't forget my internet

(Anyway, what were you getting so mad about the commission for anyway. I mean, it's not like you'd have been burned out of money you worked for anyway. It was free cash.)

I wish someone would invent an emoticon that represents "ignore".

Maybe this will just have to do till then. :roll:

(Anyway, what were you getting so mad about the commission for anyway. I mean, it's not like you'd have been burned out of money you worked for anyway. It was free cash.)

I wish someone would invent an emoticon that represents "ignore".

Maybe this will just have to do till then. :roll:

---

Hell, if I was into BDK with bondage issues, I might spank to it, myself, but - I'm not, I'm not, and HA HA HA HA.

Shawntae, pretend to be a lost harem girl. Put on a burka and gold. He might try to marry you. :twisted:

What's the emoticon for Totally Grossed Out with vomit so strong it burns a hole in my stomach? I know, Picture the CYD icon.