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Why do people PAY for art?
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Charisma
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Posted: 11/8/2004 5:12:52 PM     Post subject: Why do people PAY for art?  

-More specifically furry art, which isn't exactly a rich investment, compared to say, a Francis Bacon or Dali piece.

This is something I've never understood.
Maybe it's because I'm an artist myself, but I'm sure other artists buy art too.
The only art I would buy is a 4 poster for my wall, but I don't see the point in buying a small picture for 20+ to put in a drawer. What can you do with a picture anyway?

Perhaps I'm naive, but I'd like you to enlighten me.
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DA
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Posted: 11/8/2004 5:18:12 PM     Post subject:  

Well in a commission case, they're actually paying out for an artist with more skill than they have to draw what they can't draw themselves.

IE say mcwolfiebutt wants his blue wolf character drawn but mcwolfiebutt can't draw worth crap, he comes to an artist and says I'll pay you to take time away from your schedule of other things and put your skills to use by drawing my character.

Basically most of the time they're paying for the artists skill and time not the finished piece really.

In the case of prints, I'm not really sure but I know people pay rediculous amounts for butt ugly work. I figure most people tack the non-porn stuff to their walls like I do and keep the porn stuff under the sink for masturbating material.

I also figure most of the furry fandom is stupid, for the prices they pay, I don't want something to stick in a drawer, I want something to hang on the wall.
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Sehvekah
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Posted: 11/8/2004 5:24:56 PM     Post subject:  

The only two ways to get something you want done are, 1: Do it yourself, or 2: Pay someone else to do it. In the case of paying for furry art, the precise reasons would depend on the particular buyer, but on average it'd come down do someone wanting a particular scene or charecter drawn a particular way, and the buyer not being able to do it themselves.

Nothing really complex here.

Besides, keep in mind we're taking about furries, thus it doesn't matter what they're paying for, there's a 50/50 chace it'll end up hanging on a wall somewhere rather than stuffed in a sock drawer.

As for what can you do with a picture, well consider that most furry art sold is porn.
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Charisma
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Posted: 11/8/2004 5:27:51 PM     Post subject:  

valid points there. I suppose there are people that have their own idea of a character and want to see it come alive in a visual form. But as for random characters or characters of the artist, usually you can find a good one just to print out yourself.

As for the furry porn, I can't see how that can be better than real porn. AGAIN, behold my naivity! -or naive-ness, or whatever.
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DA
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Posted: 11/8/2004 5:49:17 PM     Post subject:  

As for the furry porn, I can't see how that can be better than real porn. AGAIN, behold my naivity! -or naive-ness, or whatever.


It's simple, most furry porn behind the scenes is pretty extreme stuff, we're not talking simple naked vixens here. Some of the emails I've got from people asking me to do art for free have seriously made me want to vomit at what they're asking me to draw.

Also it being 'art' they can cloak looking at it in a 'art appreciation' label, rather than face the truth that they are just utter perverts who like spanking it to strange things.

it's a bit like the anime character who looks like a child reasoning, because they say she's 8,000 years old, of course she's old enough to be sexy and it's okay to masturbate over her even though everyone else looks at it and thinks it's little more than child porn.

It's all about pretending to be more noble which furries do a lot.
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ZenZhu
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Posted: 11/8/2004 6:43:50 PM     Post subject:  

As already stated, the two main reasons people pay for furry art is because they either can't draw what they want as well themselves, or they like the artist's style, regardless of their own ability.

With the exchange of images on the internet, purchasing art doesn't make a lot of sense depending on what you're wanting it for. If you're just wanting wank material, or you like a picture.. just not enough to buy it... then click and save. There's no intrinsic value in buying a piece if you're wanting to just have a copy for reference for various purposes.

Of course, there is also the work that some artists produce that you can't get online. A lot of the more competent artists like Dr. Comet go this route. Their website gives you a little bit of their stuff, and then they advertise prints or CDs or something that the rabid furry fans can snap up after getting a loan using a pack of Cheez-its for collateral.

I figure for some, buying furry art is like buying a copy of someone's autograph on Ebay. It's just a lousy signature.. but people see it as owning a piece of the person. It may also be like owning a hardcover copy of a book, rather than a paperback. For some folks, I'd guess there's just a certain sense of prestige or that the picture is somehow better because you can turn it over and see where the ink bled through the paper or something. It's not just the image, but the work and such that goes into that image.

IMO, most of the work I've seen from furry "artists" is hardly worth paying for. Still, I can't fault people for their varied reasons for wanting to buy a picture rather than downloading it or something. Regardless of that, however, I have to question someone's sense of the value of a dollar if they're paying $1,000 for a copy of a picture of Chester Ringtail sucking himself off.

But, people place different value on different things. If they want to go into debt for something they value.... well... it's a free country. Still, there are just some really wasteful things people buy. I once read a fellow chatting online about how he had saved up $5,000 to have a katana hand-forged. And for what? To hang on his wall? We're not talking about Duncan McCloud or freaking Yojimbo, here.... we're talking about some guy that looks like Comic Guy from The Simpsons. Of course, to him, my paying $40 for an overstock katana from Museum Replicas Ltd. was an insult. BFD.... It looks good on my wall. It's not like I'm going to be called to arms to brandish it someday. If someone ever breaks into my house and I snap it up while heading downstairs... it's not like I'm going to go into some kind of Rurouni Kenshin duel where the crook will snap my sword in two with his $5,000 Green Destiny or some crap.... it's a pretty baseball bat with a pointy end.

Still, to me $40 was fine for what I wanted. For him, $5,000 was what made him feel his investment was worthwhile. Why do people buy Precious Moments figures? Why do people buy Beanie Babies? Why do people throw down $40-$60 dollars for a game the day it's released when they could buy it for $20 a couple of months later, or get it for almost nothing by trading in a few of their other games? People value different things... and will pay varying sums for stuff depending on how they value it.

Not that that means we can't consider it stupid to pay $80 for some mediocre artist to spill grape jelly on picture and call it colored... but, then, huge government grants to the arts have been given for dumber stuff than that.

As for folks paying for furry porn... well.. people will pay a lot for their erections. Go to an adult video store and look at the prices they charge for stuff. If you look at the real niche videos.. like stuff that panders to fetishes or certain ethnicities... the prices start to go up. Anyone can find a wankworthy video in the $10 sale bin. But, if you're wanting to see Brazilian shemales in chiffon giving a clydesdale a footjob, you're going to be paying for it. Why? It's not like there's a high demand for it. It's not like it's some HDTV video or something. It's just because people know that someone that wants that will pay pretty much whatever they ask.

Look at gashapon on Ebay. For your standard assortment of Naruto, Ultraman, Grendizer, Mazinger, Saint Seiya, Utena, and Gundam figures... you'll pay about $20 for a set of 5 or 6. Some that are more popular, like the Naruto figures, can go up. But, if you hold out, you always find a good deal. But, if you look at the more mature figures.. ones with kimono babes with bare boobs or something... they often start around $40. The seller knows some horny schmuck will pay that much.

Furry porn is pretty much like this.. it's a niche market. It's even more so if you're talking about commissions.. because then, you're not just selling an image that happens to trips someone's switches. You're creating something specific to their fetishes. Anyone can go on line and find an Asian babe with big tits. But they have to go to someone else if they're wanting a My Little Pony with six boobs. With something like this.. you go well beyond the laws of supply and demand. Here, you're dealing strictly in the realm of "I have you between a rock and a hard place (no pun intended)..... how much can I milk you for?"

By furry porn or real porn being "better," I guess it's what the viewer wants. I can see how drawn images... like hentai or furry porn... can offer some benefits over photographs. With photos, you have to have props, lighting, etc. to generate an image. If you're wanting some kind of Sahara desert chamber maiden theme.. you have to look for the right costuming. With a drawing, it's easier to create more exotic themes on demand.

Also, the "real" porn will depend on where you are. If you're wanting youre standard and rather uninteresting fare of blondes with big tits in garter belts getting Danza-slapped, you can find those pretty easily. But, if you're wanting someone dressed in Hindu garb like something out of the Kama Sutra, or someone posing in a half-open qi pao... that's a little harder to come by*. It can be easily created with a little drawing talent, however.

So.. ultimately.. who knows. People value different things. If they want to pay stupid amounts of cash for something stupid... well... we can't really stop 'em.

It's simple, most furry porn behind the scenes is pretty extreme stuff, we're not talking simple naked vixens here. Some of the emails I've got from people asking me to do art for free have seriously made me want to vomit at what they're asking me to draw.

This is another reason I never really took commissions. I don't know you. I don't want to know you. I don't want to know what you think is the innermost expression of yourself. I don't want to know what kind of twisted things you masturbate to. And I if I agreed to draw it, I'd have to know a lot more about you than I want to. Furries have this strange notion that, if you can draw, and you put stuff online.. you're public property. They can email you out of the blue and divulge their life's story like you were their best friend since childhood. With all of the furry skritching and free love and crap, they don't have this whole concept of getting to know someone on a casual level before they start telling you their fantasies involving Cthulu tentacle rape.

It's all about pretending to be more noble which furries do a lot.

My dead wolf spirit wants to masturbate to some hermtaur dragon vore spooge. Can you do a pic for me? No? Why not!? I guess you're just too closed-minded and mundane to understand how enlightened my masturbatory requirements are.

*Blame this on growing up with National Geographic for your only source of bare tits, rather than a father with a stash of Playboys or something. All I can say is, for those of us who enjoy attire that is sexy on a slightly more global scale than Victoria's Secret....

Thank

goodness

for(nws)

the(nws)

internet...(nws)
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Anencephalic Baby Jesus
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Posted: 11/8/2004 8:13:46 PM     Post subject:  

I have a small measure of artistic ability myself, and have never commissioned anything... until just recently, when I commissioned 3 sketches from a particular artist. All of which, by the way, are spooge material. Not furry art, just regular humans (not anime either, it's more of a cartoon style.)

The reasons why I had her draw them for me, rather than drawing them for myself, were these:

- First, they were her original characters from a comic that she draws, and I wanted the characters to be in her style. I like her artistic style. It's not better or worse than mine, just different, and would have been hard for me to imitate.

- Second, I knew that the money was going to a charity cause, so I guess I felt like I was doing something for the greater good by commissioning these spooge pics.

Bonus: I get new wank material which IS going to be on display in my office here at home. Although I'll probably move the pictures if, say, my mom or somebody comes over.

I think it's just like anything else: if you think it's worth the money, then it's worth it, at least to you. I don't feel like I wasted my cash. As a matter of fact, I'm all excited about getting my pictures in the mail.
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Dr. Dos
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Posted: 11/8/2004 9:02:56 PM     Post subject:  

All of which, by the way, are spooge material.

- First, they were her original characters from a comic that she draws, and I wanted the characters to be in her style. I like her artistic style. It's not better or worse than mine, just different, and would have been hard for me to imitate.



If I had any drawing ability and had a comic or something and somebody asked for porn of my characters I would be so offended. :(
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Anencephalic Baby Jesus
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Posted: 11/8/2004 10:36:28 PM     Post subject:  

Even if the comic had porny parts in it already?
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Dr. Dos
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Posted: 11/8/2004 11:09:12 PM     Post subject:  

ok that works.
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Rankin
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Posted: 11/8/2004 11:14:38 PM     Post subject:  

NO SPESCIAL SNOWFLAEKSSSS!!!!!
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Dormin
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Posted: 11/9/2004 3:02:56 AM     Post subject:  

It's all about pretending to be more noble which furries do a lot.

My dead wolf spirit wants to masturbate to some hermtaur dragon vore spooge. Can you do a pic for me? No? Why not!? I guess you're just too closed-minded and mundane to understand how enlightened my masturbatory requirements are.

*Blame this on growing up with National Geographic for your only source of bare tits, rather than a father with a stash of Playboys or something. All I can say is, for those of us who enjoy attire that is sexy on a slightly more global scale than Victoria's Secret....

Thank

goodness

for(nws)

the(nws)

internet...(nws)


Who is this Goddess?
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Arbitrary Plaid
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Posted: 11/9/2004 3:55:55 AM     Post subject: Re: Why do people PAY for art?  

People pay for art because they like it (and have the resources, and are willing to pay). Why would the generalization "why do people buy X" mean more in a "furry" context?
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ZenZhu
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Posted: 11/9/2004 3:05:10 PM     Post subject:  

I think it stands out more in a furry context because it simply differs from the stuff people usually lust after........ and this is site where we talk about furries, y'know. :wink: We all have our own little things we buy that others may not see value in, but... y'know.... those zany furries and their mischief. Not to mention that it's harder to see the value in a picture of a shetland pony with an erection than, say, a new high-speed blender or a collection of Betty Page original photos.

With what some have probably observed with furries, we're also not exactly talking about people that typically have the resources to blow several hundred dollars in the dealer's den. With most furries and their typical income range, when you see some beardy fellow in a fanny pack, XXXL cobalt blue athletic shorts and a black Sabrina Online T-shirt walking to the elevator with his arms laden down with goodies like Anna Nichole Smith on a shopping spree, you know someone's utilities aren't getting paid for that month or something. Seriously, I saw more conversations involving someone lamenting how their landlord was threatening them with eviction because they used their rent money to buy porn or pay for their con trip in my MUCKing days than I can count.

We're not talking on average about dot-com millionaires dressing up in fursuits and spending the money they don't use to light their cigars on furry porn... we're talking about people that work part-time at a minimum wage job in a photo-developing booth.
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Charisma
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Posted: 11/9/2004 6:25:12 PM     Post subject: Re: Why do people PAY for art?  

People pay for art because they like it (and have the resources, and are willing to pay). Why would the generalization "why do people buy X" mean more in a "furry" context?


I wanted to just limit this to furry art because I can understand why people buy other types of art.

Fine art may be worth more later so people buy it in hopes of using it as an investment.
Also, theres teh obvious commersial commisions for ads and magazines etc.

I just couldn't entirely see why anyone would pay SO much for something they could easily find on the internet to print out for free. I guess its obvious to me now that people would want their own characters drawn if they can't do it themsleves...perhaps I should have specifically asked about places like Furbid and how people get so much for random character drawings.
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Ebonyleopard
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Posted: 11/10/2004 3:50:42 AM     Post subject: Re: Why do people PAY for art?  

-More specifically furry art, which isn't exactly a rich investment, compared to say, a Francis Bacon or Dali piece.

This is something I've never understood.
Maybe it's because I'm an artist myself, but I'm sure other artists buy art too.
The only art I would buy is a 4 poster for my wall, but I don't see the point in buying a small picture for 20+ to put in a drawer. What can you do with a picture anyway?

Perhaps I'm naive, but I'd like you to enlighten me.


Dali and Bacon cost too much and is too heavily guarded by Frenchmen with bad body odor.

But then, why would you buy a Dali or any art for that matter? It's really worthless really. Actually, nothing has any value on it until people decide it does. A diamond is of no value until people decided it had one. So basically, people will buy what the feel they like, want, and can't get anywhere else. It's up to the individual what they feel it is worth.

Me, I love Van Gogh, but I'm not paying a couple of mill for a loser who could only sell one painting while he was alive. (How about that for irony).
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ZenZhu
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Posted: 11/10/2004 6:00:55 PM     Post subject:  

As far as diamonds and, say, gold... value not only depends on how you view it, but the use in question.

With a Dali or Escher or something, you're basically talking about placing value on the visual appeal and work put into a piece. In that sense, it's a matter of taste.

With diamonds or gold, however, you can't say they have no value other than what people place on them. Being one of the hardest natural substances, diamonds have value for use in cutting and griding tools and such. Gold conducts electricity really well and isn't as subject to corrosion as some other materials often used in electrical contacts. So, things like that have value beyond being shiny baubles. It just depends on what angle you're coming at it from. I'm sure that's all readily apparent, though. It's just fun to point out when that point comes up.
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thegunman
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Posted: 11/15/2004 10:37:18 AM     Post subject:  

i don't know but i would pay to see most of it to go away. i guess i'll settle for just not looking at it.
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