Hey, did you know that five years ago, Shawn was a fursuiter with "anatomically correct" strap-ons. His fursuits are skeller, skeller2, and skeller3:
http://fursuit.timduru.org/view/Fursuits/FurryCon/Baycon/Baycon97
Curious, no?

Hey, did you know that five years ago, Shawn was a fursuiter with "anatomically correct" strap-ons. His fursuits are skeller, skeller2, and skeller3:
http://fursuit.timduru.org/view/Fursuits/FurryCon/Baycon/Baycon97
Curious, no?

The story goes that Shawn constructed his rabbit suit and entered it in a costume contest as an experiment. The contest was SUPPOSED to judge the BEST constructed furry costume... no more than that, right? Yeah, right!!

Well, there were many, many entries that night, and some VERY well crafted costumes, many very much better than Shawns suit.

Nevertheless, Shawn's rather crude costume took first place above all the superior fursuits simply because his suit had a cock attached to it. Quite a hit with those in attendence it seems;) Apparently, 'ol Blackberry had a thing for the suit, who knows?

Hey, did you know that five years ago, Shawn was a fursuiter with "anatomically correct" strap-ons. His fursuits are skeller, skeller2, and skeller3:
http://fursuit.timduru.org/view/Fursuits/FurryCon/Baycon/Baycon97
Curious, no?

If you think this "revelation" will make us magically and spontaneously lose respect for the man, you're wrong.
That was then. This is now. We give less than a shit.

Hey, did you know that five years ago, Shawn was a fursuiter with "anatomically correct" strap-ons. His fursuits are skeller, skeller2, and skeller3:
http://fursuit.timduru.org/view/Fursuits/FurryCon/Baycon/Baycon97
Curious, no?

Something's funny about you, Cat's Wipe (and not in the "ha ha funny" sense either). You seem to think that "Once a furry, ALWAYS a furry".

Besides, even then, I'm sure Shawn was NEVER thinking of himself as a "animal trapped in a human's body". Nor had any urge to sodomise himself with a rubber donkey dong.

Something's funny about you, Cat's Wipe (and not in the "ha ha funny" sense either). You seem to think that "Once a furry, ALWAYS a furry".

But you see, that's partially true. The slime takes YEARS to come off - if it even comes off at all.

However, if people are trying to escape from the furry culture they should be given all the encouragement and assistance possible to do so.

Besides, even then, I'm sure Shawn was NEVER thinking of himself as a "animal trapped in a human's body". Nor had any urge to sodomise himself with a rubber donkey dong.

Mitch's "experiment" quote holds an insane amount of merit. Matt "GreatLemur" Sheridan conducted a similar experiment when he scribbled out a dickgirl pic and posted it on FurBid just to see what kind of offer he'd get. I suppose this makes him a furry then?

PROTIP: NO

Cool it, mouse. You're beginning to sound like Wayd & Hirtes: Too much emotional investment in the subject. "Furry" is just a label. But yes, the "once a furry, always a furry" does have merit.

The "experiment with a crude fursuit" that was mentioned doesn't sound very convincing. Especially since every other account says that Shawn's fursuits were some of the finest that the fandom could produce. So what's more likely: hundreds of hours of work for an experiment, or is furryfans.com another example of the basic psychological principle of someone's greatest disdain being projected self-contempt? Occam's razor.

Cool it, mouse. You're beginning to sound like Wayd & Hirtes: Too much emotional investment in the subject. "Furry" is just a label. But yes, the "once a furry, always a furry" does have merit.

im starting to believe the word 'furry' itself is the biggest problem with the fandom - BY FAR

mouse wrote:

im starting to believe the word 'furry' itself is the biggest problem with the fandom - BY FAR

Well, the fandom is using the word "furry" out of context, to the point where it's not a word anymore, it's an ugly label.
You can't really use "furry" to describe a piece of art or a movie, unless the art actually is consisting of real fur or the box that the movie comes in is made out of fur, so forth and so on.
The real description of the "furry" is in a dictionary and believe me, it has nothing to do with art, fandoms or people...unless they're hairy guys of course.

mouse wrote:

im starting to believe the word 'furry' itself is the biggest problem with the fandom - BY FAR

Well, the fandom is using the word "furry" out of context, to the point where it's not a word anymore, it's an ugly label.
You can't really use "furry" to describe a piece of art or a movie, unless the art actually is consisting of real fur or the box that the movie comes in is made out of fur, so forth and so on.
The real description of the "furry" is in a dictionary and believe me, it has nothing to do with art, fandoms or people...unless they're hairy guys of course.

mouse wrote:

im starting to believe the word 'furry' itself is the biggest problem with the fandom - BY FAR

Well, the fandom is using the word "furry" out of context, to the point where it's not a word anymore, it's an ugly label.
You can't really use "furry" to describe a piece of art or a movie, unless the art actually is consisting of real fur or the box that the movie comes in is made out of fur, so forth and so on.
The real description of the "furry" is in a dictionary and believe me, it has nothing to do with art, fandoms or people...unless they're hairy guys of course.

well theres a unique problem then

because its only an ugly label to certain groups

http://mupress.com
has a sectionof thier catalog mu furry

www.sofawolf.com
"furry" literature (best in show)

radiocomix i dont think used the word furry specifically, (ie furrlough is and always has been the "funny-animal anthology") but the ads in the comics are furry conventions etc
And radio does about a 50/50 anthropomorphic/manga


a lot of the people producing the stuff ARE calling it furry ...even some people who stuff is only marginally connected to 'furry' (whatever defintion youre using)


and going the other way also:
furry fetish porn and a donald duck are both anthropomorphic (another huge problem) unavoidable, but still

and even more to the point if its anthropomorphic its gonna get labeled furry by someone regardless

a lot of the people producing the stuff ARE calling it furry ...even some people who stuff is only marginally connected to 'furry' (whatever defintion youre using)


and going the other way also:
furry fetish porn and a donald duck are both anthropomorphic (another huge problem) unavoidable, but still

Unfortunaly, we have companies (real or otherwise) who cater to this ugly label and the ugly fandom it's attached to. They're in it for the money, of course. It's a "supply and demand", much like the artists who participate in this specific fandom.

Anthropomorphic is rather an intelligent way of describing subject matter that consists of bipedal animals. To shorten it to just "anthro" and applying it to art, movies, books... your basically saying human art, movies, etc..

and even more to the point if its anthropomorphic its gonna get labeled furry by someone regardless

That would make it sort of a fallacy. It's like the analogy of people calling an orange, an apple. So, people calling something that represents bipedal animals, "furry", either makes them stupid, wrong or both.

there is enough of the original fandom left that that definition still works with some people

they might be catering to a fandom
this is also split - are you talking about someone who doesnt like to draw a certain type of art, but does because it will sell or
in the world of 'furry' comics where its almost the opposite

at any rate , these people know damn well how furry comics sell overall
so they arn't in it for the money

if you want money be a plumber, a machinist, a welder , something.

they might be catering to a fandom
this is also split - are you talking about someone who doesnt like to draw a certain type of art, but does because it will sell or
in the world of 'furry' comics where its almost the opposite

I'm talking about both. The "furry" artist motto, "We're the best damn sell outs you'll ever come across".

at any rate , these people know damn well how furry comics sell overall
so they arn't in it for the money

I'm pretty sure they sell pretty well, especially if they're very well drawn comic books, unlike the majority of these so called, "furry" comics.
As comic books with anthropomorphic characters is concerned today, Havoc Inc. or Blacksad are probably the best. You go show a real artist that comic and they'll say, "That's a good, if not great effort for a comic".

Calling yourself a furry artist while trying to make it as a professional illustrator or animator is a quick way to artistic suicide, unless you've got enough fandom popularity to keep a steady income on through freelance work from furry fans. But to pull that off, 99% of the time you have to either have been around for very long, or be willing to draw the same trite crap over and over again with as little variation as possible in order to stay appealing to the niche you've made for yourself.

On the other hand, if you're an artist who just happens to draw those 'animal-head people' while keeping an otherwise broad skill base, nobody in the more professional circles seems to care at all, so I've noticed. It's when your art focuses on the fact that the character(s) are -~`*furries!*`~- that you're limiting yourself to a small niche of people, and probably going to get laughed out of wherever you're showing your work. If the work you have that involves anthropomorphic animals focusses more than just the character being furry and take it to the point where the image would be just as interesting if the character were a human, people tend to be less concerned with the anthro-animal element and just enjoy the larger picture.

Okay- here's my pet peeve. This continued myth that if you like furry stuff you
will NEVER get work in your whole entire life. Yes, it has happened to some
people, but I'm pretty much 100% sure that those people probably didn't comport
themselves in a professional manner, and that's why they didn't get the jobs.
(Or in some cases, maybe just weren't what the studios were looking for, and
sought an excuse for why they didn't get hired. A persecution complex makes for
great rumors.) Instead of harping on their situations, I'm gonna name the
people that I know FOR A FACT either worked or have worked in animation and/or
comics.

1. Cindy Crowell. She loves furry stuff, I've been to her office, and she's got
furry stuff all over the place. Cindy worked as an animator for Star Toons in
Chicago, on the Animaniacs, and some other stuff I can't remember, and recently
worked at Heart of Texas on Space Jam, Quest for Camelot and a bunch of other
stuff. She has furry/rockabilly tattoos and also plays in a rockabilly band. I
don't see that liking and drawing furry stuff has hurt her career any. She also
works on Filthy Animals for us.

2. Dave Kuhn. He's a lot quieter now, but Dave was an active fan. And now--
ta-daa-- he works for Disney as a key animator! How can this BE?! (That's
sarcasm there... sorry) Weirder yet, Dave works for Disney and actually owns
fursuits.

3. John Nunnemacher. John worked in furry comics for a good long while there
and was in fanzines. And last I heard, he was working for Disney also! Under
Dave Kuhn! Guess that fandom connection really stifles stuff... ^_-

4. "Stan Jinx". (Not his real name, but he doesn't want his son to eventually
know about his adult comic work.) Also an animator at Heart of Texas, he writes
and draws Filthy Animals. And does character designs for other people. And now
he works at a company in Dallas that designs children's meal toys for fast food
places. Decent work if you can get it! He also used to work for DC Comics. And
all that time he liked furry stuff.

5. Shon Howell. Now you're probably going- huh?! Shon? But even though Shon has
always drawn naked furry babes, he's also done a lot of work in unusual places-
he worked for the Japanese animation company Gainax, and also did toy design
work for Marvel/ToyBiz. Currently, Shon's planning to do some work for a local
museum, in sculpting dioramas (as an assistant to the main diorama guy- who
knows about Shon's furry stuff!)

6. Stephanie Gladden. She does the great Hopster's Tracks comic from Bongo. And
worked on a ton of other Bongo and Dark Horse comics. And I'm pretty sure she's
done some animation work. According to her pal, Joe Rosales, she's always liked
funny animal stuff, which is why they are in her comic. She's also the only
person to have ever gotten funny animal characters into Action Girl from Slave
Labor.

7. Sondra Roy. She's on Yerf, her art is awesome-- AND she worked on those
super-cute Old Navy commercials with John K. And worked on the Simpsons. Those
are some nice creadits for someone who likes furry stuff.

8. Mike Kazaleh. Likes furry stuff, did furry comics and fanzine work and still
works in animation. Recently spotted his name in the credits of Lionhearts and
Monster Farm.

9. Ken Mitchroney. In pretty much the same boat as Kazaleh. Still getting work.

10. Marc Schirmeister. Another long-time furry fan, he started Rowrbrazzle- and
still works for an animation studio (which I can't remember the name of-
D'OH!). He also worked on Monster Farm for Saban.

11. Robert Guthrie. Draws furry stuff of a saucy nature. But he also works for
Warner Brothers. Hey, a job's a job!

12. "Dutch". He does work for Genus and Furrlough and also worked at Heart of
Texas. In fact, people at Heart of Texas advised him to send his comic art to
us. Amazing!

13. Erica Missey. She was in Wild Life wa-a-a-y back when. But she used those
pages in her portfolio when she applied at Heart of Texas- and she worked there
for a while in the animation department.

14. Joe Rosales. Gets much work outside of furry fandom for local businesses
(usually designing and drawing furry mascot characters)- and was also given
Heidi McDonald's seal of approval. For those of you who don't know, Heidi
McDonald is the editor of Disney Adventures magazine which has a huge
circulation. Joe tried out for it, using *gasp* furry characters, and Heidi
didn't spit on him or anything. She likes his stuff and actually gets issues of
Furrlough or Hunca Munca (my fanzine) that Joe is in. While we still don't know
if Joe will be working for Disney Adventures in the future, I thought this
would be good to bring up, to show that furry artists are not universally
reviled.

15. Fred Perry. Not exactly a furry artist, but furry enough for government
work. Fred has a successful comic- so successful there are guys at Image who
scan Gold Digger to get "inspiration". GD was successful enough to have an
action figure made- of the furry character no less!

16. Stan Sakai. Stan has been in comics for years, and is one of the nicest
guys you could hope to meet. Usagi Yojimbo is critically acclaimed and popular,
and has many dedicated fans. Stan has actually won two Eisner Awards (one for
Talent Deserving of Wider Recognition). Not bad for a guy who just likes to
draw bunnies.

17. Carl Gafford. Carl is an active fan also. But he's also worked in comics
since before I was born (literally! I have some of the comics with his name in
them to prove it!) at DC, Topps, and many more companies I can't even remember.


18. Dark One. He does the book Animal Mystic for Sirius Comics. And he
definitely likes furry characters, since he keeps sticking them into his books.
(Plus he told me so when he came by the table to get issues of Furrlough and
Genus.) Hasn't hurt his sales any, or his popularity with more mainstream comic
fans.

19. Terrie Smith. Terrie's a big name in fandom. But she has also done
animation work, and I know she sells a lot of fantasy art that isn't furry.
She's able to make a living off of art- not bad!

20. Linda Medley. While I don't think she's an actual fan, Castle Waiting has
many furry characters, and she even got a Xeric Grant to do the book. She won
Eisner Awards this year, and her book has furry characters in it. Amazing!

21. Carla Speed McNeil. She does furry stuff AND mature furry stuff, and won
the Friends of Lulu New Talent Award for women in comics for Finder. Which has
furry characters in it. And it still gets rave reviews.

22. Finally, me and Pat. We're treated pretty well in the industry, even though
everyone knows we publish furry books. We get a little light ribbing from
friends occasionally, but that's it. People are pretty much impressed at books
which have issue numbers in the 30's and 70's respectively. And even though Pat
drew Mighty Tiny: Mouse Marines and publishes Furrlough and Genus, he still
gets work from Dark Horse Comics, Oni Press, Image Comics, and various other
companies. He doesn't go to them- they come to him. Despite this "furry thing".
I know people all through the industry at large and small companies, and no one
spits on me or insults me or gives me heaping piles of crud. I've gotten
positive comments about that furry book I write (Tales of the Fehnnik) from
Linda Medley, Mark Crilley, Jaime & Gilbert Hernandez, Andi Watson (who drew
his first ever furry pinup for the first issue), Stan Sakai, Elizabeth Watasin,
Terry LaBan, Dave Stevens, Adam Warren and Somtow Sucharitkul. I think in the
entire comic industry there are maybe four or five sour apples who have decided
not to talk to Pat or I because we publish furry stuff, and that's about it. No
one else really seems to care- as long as we can make a living at comics, they
seem to think we have just as much right to be there as they do.

That's more than enough for now. I'm sure I've left people off the list. But
this was what I knew for sure. I also didn't even want to go into the gaming
industry where I know MANY furry people work. This post would have been HUGE.
(not that it isn't now...)

Final point- your career is what you make it. Behaving in a professional manner
and basically giving the companies what they're looking for are usually the
best ways to get you hired. Your personal interests are your own business.

--Elin, co-owner, publisher and editor, Radio Comix

"Remember, Zip, evil spelled backwards is live, and we all want to do that!"
-Mok, "Rock'n'Rule"

well not quite in the case of Steve Martin (?) putting his tiny toons porno (C) in his portfolio and applying for a job yes

also as fucked as Guthrie is, he did (does?) work at WB

(Stuff)

(Stuff)

These artists that Elin Winkler mentions, probably never used "furry" in their careers until it was coined in the early 90s(?). When "furry" became the norm, a lot of people started using it, because it sold (for that specific group).
20 years ago, "furry" as a misused label, didn't exist. I still think it doesn't really exist, it's just a moronic conception of fans. As we all know, fans are worthless so their ideals don't mean shit.

These artists that Elin Winkler mentions, probably never used "furry" in their careers until it was coined in the early 90s(?). When "furry" became the norm, a lot of people started using it, because it sold (for that specific group).
20 years ago, "furry" as a misused label, didn't exist. I still think it doesn't really exist, it's just a moronic conception of fans. As we all know, fans are worthless so their ideals don't mean shit.

Posted by Bob Guthrie
(A) Which means NO Furry porn.
(B) ...Which did NOT contained any Copyrighted characters.
(C) That Rumor is actually derived from a "Tale" that Steve Martin actually tried to pitch a Pornographic version of "Tiny Toons Adventures" to some WBTA Suits (riiiight,...)

also as fucked as Guthrie is, he did (does?) work at WB

Oh?. Pray tell me why i'm so "fucked," Mouse? (D.) Is this a personal opinion, somebody else opinion, or the whole "Lola Bunny" Fiasco? (Which i already addressed this to Mitch, which was quite an amicable person to deal with. No yelling, insults, threats or rude behavior when corresponding with him.)

If it's the "Lola Bunny" Fiasco, i already made my point to Mitch about, which he asked if he could post such on his site. If it's something else, care to discuss it?. Thanks.

(D) May i ask who i'm debating with?.

Pretty much sums up what I was going to reply with.

I doubt most of the artists had their portfolios made up of furry art.

These artists that Elin Winkler mentions, probably never used "furry" in their careers until it was coined in the early 90s(?). When "furry" became the norm, a lot of people started using it, because it sold (for that specific group).
20 years ago, "furry" as a misused label, didn't exist. I still think it doesn't really exist, it's just a moronic conception of fans. As we all know, fans are worthless so their ideals don't mean shit.

no thats incorrect,

the only one who wanted nothign to do with furry , and was openly against it was mitchrooney - thats it

heh , you also miss the point that many of the artists were ALSO fans
furry fandom used to blur the line between pro and fan

and alot of these people have and currently do contribute to RowrBrazzle

thats a FURRY APA


kazaleh WAS furry fan


as to people like Rosales , Howell, "Dutch" , Daphne Lage, Schirmeister, Terrie Smith and
Elin herself ..

are you actually gonna try and dispute those?

Elin Winkler

Pretty much sums up what I was going to reply with.

I doubt most of the artists had their portfolios made up of furry art.

funny..


ok well why would people who primarily draw anthropomorphic/funny animal/furry, whatever the fuck you wanna CALL it, art

not have it in thier portfolio ?


christ, these arguemnts dont even make sense anymore

Hmm...perhaps Mr. mouse, these artists are using "fan" out of context also?

Listen, "furry" is not a real label. It never was, it never will be. Read a dictionary, look at "furry", I don't see it used to describe a social group or art, it's a false label. So, stop using it.

youre neglecting the important point - no fans of anything? nothing succeeds
i know you are using "fan" in the derogatory sense but the fact is artists, musicians, whoever..when they dont respect thier fans they dont deserve success ..if they didnt have a fanbase they wouldnt get where they are

That's a false statement. People succeed without fans and fanbases. Fans are worthless, they don't contribute anything but their money and they're stupid enough to give it away. Artists, musicians, actors, etc.. deserve success based on their talent, skill, ambition, and desire to get to the top.
And what is success?

That's a false statement. People succeed without fans and fanbases. Fans are worthless, they don't contribute anything but their money and they're stupid enough to give it away. Artists, musicians, actors, etc.. deserve success based on their talent, skill, ambition, and desire to get to the top.
And what is success?

just what the fuck are you talking about ?


yes talent absolutely

but i dont get how someone who appreciates someone elses work is 'stupid'

if thats your attitude

and you actually produce anything

i pray to god you fail miserably at everything you ever attempt

its the snobby stuck up 'artiste' thats get spit on the worst
seriously

'asshole' trumps 'talented' - everytime! :wink: >

it(')s the whole lola bunny thing(.) (I')d say goin(g) around telling people you created something you didn(')t classifies (it) as 'fucked'

And either Ken Pick or Brian Henderson said that Martin had pornographic Tiny Toons material with him and he didn(')t feel it was that big of a deal.

(W)hy are you a better source of information?(.)

Actually, to tell you the thruth, i have to kick myself for participating in this thread. I keep telling myself "Don't get involved, don't get involved, don't get involved" on All matters Furry, pro or con, as it is just 360' vicious circlejerk, changes nothing, and i just get a headache of the whole (thing).

That's a false statement. People succeed without fans and fanbases. Fans are worthless, they don't contribute anything but their money and they're stupid enough to give it away. Artists, musicians, actors, etc.. deserve success based on their talent, skill, ambition, and desire to get to the top.
And what is success?

just what the fuck are you talking about ?


yes talent absolutely

but i dont get how someone who appreciates someone elses work is 'stupid'

if thats your attitude

and you actually produce anything

i pray to god you fail miserably at everything you ever attempt

its the snobby stuck up 'artiste' thats get spit on the worst
seriously

'asshole' trumps 'talented' - everytime! :wink: >

There's a difference between appreciating an artist's work and being a fan of an artist's work.

Well, i will have to say that you should read the CYD archives on that matter before making such statements; it helps your point a little bit. But just to paraphrase: No, I didn't create Lola Bunny. That was actually a decision by WBCP CEO Dan Romanelli and Director Ivan Reichman(?) to add a Love interest for Bugs Bunny, which was made late in the production of the film. I did an oficial WBCP Lola turnaround (Modelsheet,) for accuracy use in the making of Lola Bunny products or design (See the following thread for information on the matter: http://www.animationnation.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006346#000000,) since that's my animation title/job, Senior Animation Character Artist.

HmmmI don't know,... Maybe because i am/have been Steve's room mate for the last past 10 years?. Or talked personally with the person(s) involved in the interview fiasco?. Or talked to Cindy Crowell, which was the first one i heard from about the supposed TTA Porn Version pitch?,... Do these qualify as "a better source of information?."


Actually, to tell you the thruth, i have to kick myself for participating in this thread. I keep telling myself "Don't get involved, don't get involved, don't get involved" on All matters Furry, pro or con, as it is just 360' vicious circlejerk, changes nothing, and i just get a headache of the whole (thing).

So let's agree about disagreeing, Mr. Mouse, and i will just leave you be with the rest of this thread.

BMG

funny..


ok well why would people who primarily draw anthropomorphic/funny animal/furry, whatever the fuck you wanna CALL it, art

not have it in thier portfolio ?