Crush...Yiff...Destroy!

Repomancer · Apocrisiary Joined: 13 Jun 2003 Posts: 47

Hilarious livejournal drama going on.

For those of you unacquainted with the boy, Starblade is a Dragon. He decided it would be a good idea to discuss his Draconity on the livejournal "debate" community. The result is the funniest thing to happen this weekend. Basically, he defends his belief in being a dragon by claiming that since it can't be disproved, it must be accepted; much like holding up a huge disgusting insect and demanding that people pet it.

The lj debate.

Starblade's lj entry about same. The syncophants maintain that anyone who thinks "draconity" is loony must be some kind of Nazi. I forget who came up with the term "Bastard Culture" -- it was either 2 Gryphon or Kaijima Frostfang the Spherical Janitor -- but the Dragons have adopted it wholesale. They confuse "people who snicker at you" with "people who hate you", but that's ok with us bastard-culture types.

The shitstorm was intense enough to make it onto ljdrama.org. Look for the October 18th entry.

Mitch · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 290

Oh, Good God. I saw it linked from the eat_all_furries LJ community (see also our front page).

Yes, I do believe it was Kaijima who coined the "bastard culture" phrase in his essay In the Country of the Cruel.

Do you think he'll add CYD to his block list now??

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

This Ljdrama is a classic example of false consciousness.

We should feel nothing but a patronising pity and a slither of contempt for this poor young man.

Was it not written that: “the highest state of being for men is man”?

Yes, It was.
And people shall only know contentment when the materiel conditions are fair enough that we do not have to long for a fantasy world where there is justice for all and we are dragons.

It is only True social justice, which can prevent false consciousness like this.

Repomancer · Apocrisiary Joined: 13 Jun 2003 Posts: 47

Starblade is actually a good kid. I've corresponded with him for a while, off and on. He has a real aptitude for math, and a good heart. Like all furries/Otherkin, his Asperger's syndrome is self-diagnosed.

His lj entries alternate between (1) vowing to be nicer to people in the clearing (on some stupid furry MUCK or another), (2) vowing to learn more about advanced mathematics, and (3) vowing to further explore his sexuality -- which is all conducted online, and consists of vore, pouch, and unbirth fetishes -- you know, the important stuff. Lather, rinse, repeat, endlessly. He was over 200 pounds at age 18. Draconity is all about alienation. Frostfang's main spirit form is an anthropomorphic dragon that puts Ahhnold to shame (the alternate is a huge inflatable pool toy of some sort) but in real life, he's gotta be pushing 400 pounds, and it ain't muscle, fingerless gloves notwithstanding.

Masturbation is like sex in that it feels good, but unlike sex in that it does not produce life.

Starblade wants to become a game programmer, yet can't be lured away from the MUCKs long enough to learn to program. Nor (if you check his recent lj posts) can he even be bothered to figure out how to crop and rescale an image -- life is all about TinySex on the 'net, and not real contact with real caring humans (excuse me, hy00mans).

Sigh. I've just about given up on him. A lot of potential, yet such a disappointment.

But I still can't help liking the boy.

Genghis · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 186

Well, I don't know about the debate and all that shit, but it still remains to be said that whoever registered the "Gunnery Sergeant Hartman" LJ account is the greatest person in the history of the internet.

Wayd Wolf · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 456

Yup, I'm only imagining the existance of severely disturbed furries/scalies/etc... Yup, only imagining.

I've met a number of similar people disassociated from reality in furry and no matter how much you care, they will almost always do everything they possibly can to repetetively promise to try to improve while at the very same time redoubling their efforts to make themselves worse.

After a while, you haven't got any more tears to cry on their behalf and you get numb.

There's nothing you can do to stop them all by yourself, and too much of furry fandom doesn't give two sh*ts about turning the tide. It's like trying to redirect the Mississippi River with a ping pong paddle and harsh language. But sometimes, you're remiss in not trying.

DA · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 320

I was a dung beetle in a previous life :lol:

Why the hell is everyone always frikkin something impressive? I'm not impressed especially when they claim to be something imaginary.

Oh yeah, I think I'll tell everyone I'm really a bat-unicorn-dragon-elf-taur :wink: after all it can't be disproved can it?

:twisted: A clue for the furries who actually peddle this bullshit...

People like me spot the mistakes you make..

like the whole my spirit animal is a really great swordsman and he talks to me yet I draw picture of people with swords showing I have absolutely NO idea about them.

Or I am a really a mystical animal born into the wrong body despite coming from a different culture I don't remember how to speak the language yet I remember how cool my powers were and will talk about them for hours. In fact I know nothing about this culture I am poaching from and will waffle on how great I am to cover it up.

Michael Hirtes · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 519

Yup, I'm only imagining the existance of severely disturbed furries/scalies/etc... Yup, only imagining.

A joke I always like to use is "If furries are those who get off on fur, what do you call those who get off on herps?"

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

Starblade is actually a good kid

Well, I’m sure most of them are, if you flick through his friends list you can see that a common theme in a lot of these livejournels is that of alienation, for example one of them says:

“I cant show any "Public Displays of Affection" unless it is with the opposite sex of this species, and even then people are too afraid to sea it. Like it is un natural to show your love for someone while other people are around. I cannot be cute and cuddly because male humans are supposed to be as tough as nails and powerful, dominating. I can’t be female because my SHELL isn't female.

That is all.

Altenia Nadorian
Female Sea Dragoness, weather you like it or not”

Now, I reckon there are several factors there. The decay of civil society under the maw of the free market, The lo-pay high stress service sector being the only real job market ATM, lack of an NHS and Also, They lament that they cannot show affection to another male in public. Now I’d say that this might be an important part in alienation as well, caused by the lack of progressive social policies on the part of government.
They feel that they cannot be themselves, so they create an alternate self who is mighty and tough and stuff, to act as a vent so to speak.

The problem is, I so little way of changing the lives of all these people out there, without a serious change on the part of the governments of the west in their overall thrust of policy.

America is already like a third world country if you are poor, and Europe is moveing fast towards the American model.

Essentially, I think this can all be blamed on global capitalism and the free market, as the progenitor of most of the troubles.

I do not think any of these people are "bad" or "Stupid" or "Evil" in themselves, But they are products of their enviroment. and that is an enviroment which owes everyone much more.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

and too much of furry fandom doesn't give two sh*ts about turning the tide.

That’s because it can’t to a certain extent, because it cannot control civil society. Only the ruling classes can do that, but they don’t want to make things better for the majority of people, now or ever.
Thus it remains up to the people themselves to take matters in hand and demand change.

Now, the extent to which furry fandom (or rather the members of it) demands democracy and justice for all™ determines whether you can say that they don’t want change because they feel threatened, or indeed, it may be that some members benefit out of the current conditions.

Thus while you may be able to critique members for not wanting emocratic change, you cannot really blame furry fandom in itself for anything much.

It’s like if you never let a child read a book or talk to another person, you’d expect them to not be very clever at all.

Thus is the problems of furry fandom merely a byproduct as opposed to a cause.

Wakestar · Recusant Joined: 27 Aug 2003 Posts: 20

Hilarious livejournal drama going on.

For those of you unacquainted with the boy, Starblade is a Dragon. He decided it would be a good idea to discuss his Draconity on the livejournal "debate" community. The result is the funniest thing to happen this weekend. Basically, he defends his belief in being a dragon by claiming that since it can't be disproved, it must be accepted; much like holding up a huge disgusting insect and demanding that people pet it.

Christ. Just when u think ppl cant get any farther beyond hope. :cry:

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

Now, the extent to which furry fandom (or rather the members of it) demands democracy and justice for all™ determines whether you can say that they don’t want change because they feel threatened, or indeed, it may be that some members benefit out of the current conditions.

Thus while you may be able to critique members for not wanting emocratic change, you cannot really blame furry fandom in itself for anything much.

It’s like if you never let a child read a book or talk to another person, you’d expect them to not be very clever at all.

Thus is the problems of furry fandom merely a byproduct as opposed to a cause.

sort of,

i think one of the most major problems from the start was that furry fandom never had an extremely strong definition of what it was and what its purpose was. If it did, then it would be easy to write off fringe elements as just that.

this is the PRIMARY reason for the different views taken of other fandoms and furry fandom, and why people see furry fandom as being more fucked up, and the reason that the core of what it is supposed to be about is consistantly ignored.

any one person in it can define the whole because it never defined ITSELF (that or it defined itself WAY too broadly, and started incorporating fringy-ness that didnt need to be included INTO the definition of what it was)

couple that with the fact that people only see what they want to , and you get shit like now - where all furry comics end up getting ignored with the exception of ASB
(even the other gay furry comic 'circles' which was a complete 180deg turn from ASB gets ignored, most likely because there really isnt that much to joke about it)

the only other that i know of is genus: male
not sure when it came out, but it now stands at whopping 2 issues...where as the heterosexually oriented genus is around issue #60 or something..

gay fandom..i dont think so

anything good that comes out of the fandom is ignored as well or shot down..which ever

not too many peopel know what albedo is ...and its the comic that basically led up to / started the whole furry thing..its where stan sakai was discovered
hell , way too many FURRIES dont what it is ...

and thats fuckin stupid if you ask me

i think Wayd Hit the nail on the head on AFF when he said furry is
5% severe problem furries
10% problem furries
65% furries with thier heads up their asses ignoring the problems

20% still serious about anthropomorphics as a genre/style/application whatever you wanna call it

(err however wayd broke it down...seems accurate enough - want to repost it wayd?)

ive noticed that that serious % is tending toward dropping the word furry
and using 'anthropomorphic'...might be a good sign
times are a changin

web comics awards have an 'anthropomorphic' catergory..yea they might be "furries" doing the comics - it dosnt matter though,
yerf - same deal its mostly (ALL?) furries on there but i think yerf avoids using the term 'furry' for the most part..i think it gets mentioned with derision in the rules somewhere

so i think its a possibility that the dams gonna break and theres going to be a shift from furry fandom leaving only the trash behind

and if people start to network and form hubs, they damn well better learn from the mistakes of 'furry' and GIVE EVERYTHING A SOLID DEFINITION
that way the one guy acting like a fuckin lunatic has no effect , thats all they are

1 lone nutcase - that just happens to belongs to that group
or it is recognized as a fringe

Wayd Wolf · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 456

and too much of furry fandom doesn't give two sh*ts about turning the tide.

That’s because it can’t to a certain extent, because it cannot control civil society. Only the ruling classes can do that, but they don’t want to make things better for the majority of people, now or ever.
Thus it remains up to the people themselves to take matters in hand and demand change.

Nice nuclear megatonnage non-sequitr. Furries who ARE functional, have wifes, girlfriends, boyfriends, whatever, and hold serious jobs which they and their families rely on, and do not spend every last waking moment surrounded by furry have only themselves to blame for things getting this bad. Not society, ruling classes, etc.

As I said before, people with open minds so open their brains fell out tolerated the intolerable, welcomed the unwelcomable, and coddled those needing a boot to the head most. We went from a trippy bunch who at the worst were still functional in ordinary society if nuts in private to a cesspool topheavy with people afraid to take responsibility for what furry became and a smaller but increasing number of furverts, psychotics, and sociopaths.

We've got less reputable people involved in furry than the worst I've dealt with in Trek and I've met Trekkies who masturbated to signed pics of various original series stars, especially Nimoy for some twisted reason. To get worse than that, well... check out the furry pedophilia, furry vore, furry pedophilic vore, etc.

Never mind the insane preoccupation with hermaphrodites and gay spooge showing c*cks ten sizes larger than possible by the laws of physics being shoved up sphincters too small to pass feces much less be used for sex and in many pics, on obvious look of pain on the receiver. Some furs seem to think painful abusive sex is a great fantasy subject.

And STILL furs who DON'T fit into those embarrassingly unsightly groups refuse to speak out about it. Partly from a sense of opprobrium falling on themselves eventually domino style, partly from fear of alienating certain artists whose work they really really like and who they get off on being able to reference as personal friends. Well the alternative is what we have. A continuing psycho-social rot leading to the utter destruction of furry as a place of any redeeming value.

Michael Hirtes · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 519

ive noticed that that serious % is tending toward dropping the word furry
and using 'anthropomorphic'...might be a good sign
times are a changin

If you read the article by Jerry, there's always "critterologist".

Sadly though, so long as there are assclowns like Ostrich blathering at any reporter out looking to make a story, mercenaries like Kevin "Assinio" Duane, Brian O'Connell, and Mike "Romus Z" Caddell out to scam a buck at all costs, and badly-made comics like ASB (but are still insanely popular amongst the furry crowd, even to this day long after they went out of publication), I fear that the only way to save furry fandom is to tear it down 100% and start all over again.

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

ive noticed that that serious % is tending toward dropping the word furry
and using 'anthropomorphic'...might be a good sign
times are a changin

If you read the article by Jerry, there's always "critterologist".

Sadly though, so long as there are assclowns like Ostrich blathering at any reporter out looking to make a story, mercenaries like Kevin "Assinio" Duane, Brian O'Connell, and Mike "Romus Z" Caddell out to scam a buck at all costs, and badly-made comics like ASB (but are still insanely popular amongst the furry crowd, even to this day long after they went out of publication), I fear that the only way to save furry fandom is to tear it down 100% and start all over again.

thats all true, the only way to save it though, about tearing it all down...even still alot of these guys are going to continue doing what they are doing regardless
i always figured if a second fandom did start there would be a major clash almost immediatly just from overlap

seriously i think one way it could improve that would be a hell of a lot easier is just one major , really good furry produced or backed project that would attract more normal , balanced people to the fandom and just crowd these fuckers out

not likely because of the bad rep gonna keep people at bay, but attemptin to mainstream works such as comic books and cartoons from within the fandom , would be a good way to start

it would have the same effect as when the fandom first formed...it was good in the old days because everything was being built off high quality works, the fandom's own AND outside "mainstream" stuff

only time will tell i guess

i just hang around furry for the comics and stuff
im waiting for that new albedo from SFA to come out

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

also , i just wanted to add a few things

i tend to have this grasping at straws type of attitude when dealing with anything related to furry

i think in terms of
more of this, less of THAT
and this 'lesser of 2 evils' mentality (which i typically dont like, but it seems when it comes to furry - everythign you know is wrong)

like:
lets replace quozl, with hmm i dunno...fat goth chick
it would be like... almost refreshing
see?

i also think of it like a scale
right now the bad seems to outweigh the good

so for every 'doug winger' you need a 'mitchrooney'

for kevin duanes...you need disney animators to cancel that shit out

as far as the 'foxwolfies and bondage bobs'
were talking about needing ex-presidents and top celebrities now
1 for 1
thats not good

Wayd Wolf · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 456

(err however wayd broke it down...seems accurate enough - want to repost it wayd?)

Here it is. I've set a spoiler space to spare those who don't want to read swearing. Sorry I was busy Mouse.

(spoiler space follows... you've been warned...)

(turn back now if easily offended...)

(are you paying attention kids?)

(have you considered a good savings account? a retirement plan?)

(you might want tea or coffee or a small snack while navigating the blank space...)

"Swipecat" <dfarrance@furriesERASETHIS.info> wrote in message
news:542dov499cj4clpp7a67u1jkkn7u9eqrad@4ax.com...
> <generalisations snipped>
>
> But once again, it's broad brushstrokes from you. Go back and look at
> what you've written. You're heaping insults on the fandom. It still
> looks like you're trying to achieve exactly the same thing as Hirtes.
>
> --
> Swipecat

Still going with that "circle the wagons" mentality I see...

THE FANDOM IS FUCKED. Here's the villains:

5% Severe Problem Furries
20% Problem Furries
65% Furries Like You With Their Heads Stuck Up Their Asses In Denial

There's MAYBE 10% of the furry scene who aren't afraid to look at
the other 90% and shake their heads and find nothing much good to say
about them.

(edited on second thought because I've basically said all of that before)

Wayd Wolf · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 456

lets replace quozl, with hmm i dunno...fat goth chick
it would be like... almost refreshing
see?

Especially if they get nekkid on occassion. :twisted: As my all-purpose punch-line regarding anything unsightly goes, "I can get you a URL for that".

i also think of it like a scale
right now the bad seems to outweigh the good

so for every 'doug winger' you need a 'mitchrooney'

for kevin duanes...you need disney animators to cancel that shit out

as far as the 'foxwolfies and bondage bobs'
were talking about needing ex-presidents and top celebrities now
1 for 1
thats not good

Man, that would mean we need something like three Hollywoods and two Washingtons to balance it all out. :lol:

It's a telling thing when celebs who get screwed up on drugs, change spouses more often than some change their underwear, hold nothing but the iciest unpatriotic feelings for the US, and can't behave nearly as well as your average housewife from Akron are a step UP from furries.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

lets replace quozl, with hmm i dunno...fat goth chick
it would be like... almost refreshing
see?

Especially if they get nekkid on occassion. :twisted: As my all-purpose punch-line regarding anything unsightly goes, "I can get you a URL for that".

NONONO
NOOOO DONT

uhm...i said fat...to me thats a cop out
i wouldve said super-model...but my theme was lesser of 2 evils

i guess if you had a gun to my head id click the URL
(unless it was naked quozl thru the link)

Man, that would mean we need something like three Hollywoods and two Washingtons to balance it all out. :lol:

It's a telling thing when celebs who get screwed up on drugs, change spouses more often than some change their underwear, hold nothing but the iciest unpatriotic feelings for the US, and can't behave nearly as well as your average housewife from Akron are a step UP from furries.

eh

people like celebrities :roll:

Wayd Wolf · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 456

lets replace quozl, with hmm i dunno...fat goth chick
it would be like... almost refreshing
see?

Especially if they get nekkid on occassion. :twisted: As my all-purpose punch-line regarding anything unsightly goes, "I can get you a URL for that".

NONONO
NOOOO DONT

uhm...i said fat...to me thats a cop out
i wouldve said super-model...but my theme was lesser of 2 evils

i guess if you had a gun to my head id click the URL
(unless it was naked quozl thru the link)

OW!!!

Spoiler space, mouse! I just flashed on that concept and now I have to go get a Q-tip to clean the blood from my ears thanks to the sudden cereberal hemmorage. :shock:

Why can't people mention furs we WANT to see naked? Yeah, there are a few. All female.

Man, that would mean we need something like three Hollywoods and two Washingtons to balance it all out. :lol:

It's a telling thing when celebs who get screwed up on drugs, change spouses more often than some change their underwear, hold nothing but the iciest unpatriotic feelings for the US, and can't behave nearly as well as your average housewife from Akron are a step UP from furries.

eh

people like celebrities :roll:

They'd like 'em a lot less if one announced on Jay Leno that they were a furry fan. Can you see that? Who'd we want to see announce that? Beyonce? Ben Affleck? We'd get Carrot Top of course. Hopefully NOT naked...

OW!

(slaps self repeatedly, reaches for another Q-tip.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

Nice nuclear megatonnage non-sequitr. Furries who ARE functional, have wifes, girlfriends, boyfriends, whatever, and hold serious jobs which they and their families rely on, and do not spend every last waking moment surrounded by furry have only themselves to blame for things getting this bad. Not society, ruling classes, etc.

We are the product of our environments. If the enviroment is unsupportive and negative, then we cannot change or develop, and the any problems with furry, are merely the seeds sown, given shape.
We should look at the broader picture, not just furry alone.

Think for a moment,
What have we done?
We have gone to the moon, we can bring people back from the very brink of death, we can transplant organs, we can move mountains (quite literally), we can make clones and so much more.

And yet we cannot feed the starving (even though we grow enough food for all), we cannot ensure that those who need healthcare most get it, we cannot conjure up even the hollow shell of social justice.

Do you think that these people really want to spend their lives feeling alienated and obessesing over things they cannot have?

No.

So then why would they “choose” a path that would lead only to unhappiness?

They would not, no one would… unless they are forced into it, whether by mental illness, inequities or lack of societal involvement to rectify the situation.

People come in different strengths and beliefs, not everyone can resist the trials and suffering that life throws at them, some people change, some people break and some small few carry on.

What we have is we are forgetting our duty, which is of all to all.
The people have the power, but it is the government, which gives that power coherent shape and form.

And the governments are failing their people (and you can see that right now), which lead to problems such as this, where people feel so disconnected from a decaying civil society, from ruinous healthcare costs, which they may not even be able to afford.

If you were to look at most of these cases, which you decry, I am sure that so many of them would have such underlying problems and pressures such as mental illness not or inadequately treated, and such other inequities as modern life provides.

Wayd Wolf · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 456

Nice nuclear megatonnage non-sequitr. Furries who ARE functional, have wifes, girlfriends, boyfriends, whatever, and hold serious jobs which they and their families rely on, and do not spend every last waking moment surrounded by furry have only themselves to blame for things getting this bad. Not society, ruling classes, etc.

We are the product of our environments.

No, we most certainly are NOT. To claim that is a blatant refusal to take responsibility for yourself. It's been the crux of all your socialist blather. How nice to blame "ruling classes", "society", and so forth. You get a paradoxical feeling of both total powerlessness which fuels your pious victimhood and yet a feeling of powerful invulnerability where you're beyond blame for what you do. That's the exact sort of excuse making I hear from EVERY furvert, furfreak, and loony.

The above is exactly the reason they choose to behave this way. They get a shield against any blame for what they do to themselves and get to blame everyone else instead. Society didn't shove their weiner up the backside of a plush toy, ruling classes didn't make them dress up as a transexual unicorn, no one made them wank to spooge of such unimaginable horror that even Larry Flynt would retch. No one made them try to associate every fetish of theirs with anthropomorphics. No one made them live such pathetic lives.

They CHOSE to because they were lazy and cowardly and others never discouraged them from being that way and in some cases actually encouraged their behaviour. But they made a choice to encourage or by inaction encourage as well. Two groups choosing to make furrydom a sewer.

Swipecat · Qualificator Joined: 15 Jul 2003 Posts: 22

Hi, Wayd and mouse. Since I've been quoted as being one of those in denial, I'll repeat what I've said in alt.fan.furry:

A very slimy and devious furry fetishist that wanted to damage furrydom's anthropomorphics advocates and thus steer furrydom towards being a support group for his kinks would do this:

Join a group (alt.fan.furry) that's frequented by his opponents but very few of his kinky friends and then pretend to be one of his own opponents. He'd loudly and continuously describe all kinds of fetishes and decry them in language that implies that all furries indulge in them. He'd fill his posts with profanity and abuse and do his best to make the environment unpleasant for furries that simply want to talk about anthropomorphics. Not forgetting to direct especially vile abuse at former Burned Fur members, if they take him to task for his behaviour. Engage the few furry lifestlyers in the group and use really absurd arguments so that the lifestylers' responses appear to be a model of moderation and rationality. i.e. behave like the one and only mouse.

Wayd does much the same.

And it's furries like me that have issues?? :roll:

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

Hi, Wayd and mouse. Since I've been quoted as being one of those in denial, I'll repeat what I've said in alt.fan.furry:

A very slimy and devious furry fetishist that wanted to damage furrydom's anthropomorphics advocates and thus steer furrydom towards being a support group for his kinks would do this:

Join a group (alt.fan.furry) that's frequented by his opponents but very few of his kinky friends and then pretend to be one of his own opponents. He'd loudly and continuously describe all kinds of fetishes and decry them in language that implies that all furries indulge in them. He'd fill his posts with profanity and abuse and do his best to make the environment unpleasant for furries that simply want to talk about anthropomorphics. Not forgetting to direct especially vile abuse at former Burned Fur members, if they take him to task for his behaviour. Engage the few furry lifestlyers in the group and use really absurd arguments so that the lifestylers' responses appear to be a model of moderation and rationality. i.e. behave like the one and only mouse.

Wayd does much the same.

And it's furries like me that have issues?? :roll:

what burned fur did i direct "especially vile abuse" at? ken pick?
if he wants to nag at my capitalization and take shots at me then i repond ..too bad for him
and i wouldnt say anything i've done was "especially vile" either
if i was throwing around especially vile abuse..trust me you would know

and i said it already ..the burned furs didnt do shit
what you makes you think i was so supporting of thier goals ?
they never had any goals ..yeah, "clean up the fandom"...they never really stated it OR had any plan set out as to how they were gonna do that

burned fur, was a rant site and memberlist and thats it

and yeah i guess if i was a "cunning fetishist" (as you keep saying on AFF) then maybe i would be doing what you were saying i am...but then consider the fact that i wouldnt give a shit enough in the first place to bother

i doubt there are any lifestyler furries even smart enough to come up with that tired scheme.

if you want to believe that im some fetishist swipecat, go right ahead..what fucking difference does your opinion make to me ?

Swipecat · Qualificator Joined: 15 Jul 2003 Posts: 22

Ah mouse, so you don't give a damn about Burned Fur, but you're really determined to repeat their mistakes. Unlike you, though, they did have a stated plan, albeit a ludicrous plan. And it's ironic that YOU should criticize them for being nothing but ranters.

But I see that you don't deny being a fetishist? So what's a typical mouse day then? Start off by boffing the dog, then you exchange posts with your weirdo pals on alt.lifestyle.furry calling yourself Yiff Bandicoot or something. Later you boink your plushies, then for a real laugh, you mess up alt.fan.furry by posing as a reactionary headcase called mouse who couldn't do “constructive” to save his own life.

And even if you really are a reactionary ranter, you're just as much a furry drama queen as the extreme lifestylers. It's just two sides of the same coin. Furrreeee.

Michael Hirtes · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 519

OMFG! Cat's Wipe comes onto CYD. Bad move, loser. :)

Hi, Wayd and mouse. Since I've been quoted as being one of those in denial, I'll repeat what I've said in alt.fan.furry:

A very slimy and devious furry fetishist that wanted to damage furrydom's anthropomorphics

That's me.

advocates and thus steer furrydom towards being a support group for his kinks would do this:

Join a group (alt.fan.furry) that's frequented by his opponents but very few of his kinky friends and then pretend to be one of his own opponents. He'd loudly and continuously describe all kinds of fetishes and decry them in language that implies that all furries indulge in them.

But, they are.

He'd fill his posts with profanity and abuse and do his best to make the environment unpleasant for furries that simply want to talk about anthropomorphics.

Oh, I think they do more than that.

Not forgetting to direct especially vile abuse at former Burned Fur members, if they take him to task for his behaviour. Engage the few furry lifestlyers in the group and use really absurd arguments so that the lifestylers' responses appear to be a model of moderation and rationality. i.e. behave like the one and only mouse.

Hooray for Mouse.

Wayd does much the same.

And me. Don't forget me.

And it's furries like me that have issues?? :roll:

Furries suck, Wipey. Deal with it.

mouse · Coadjutor Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 662

Ah mouse, so you don't give a damn about Burned Fur, but you're really determined to repeat their mistakes. Unlike you, though, they did have a stated plan, albeit a ludicrous plan. And it's ironic that YOU should criticize them for being nothing but ranters.

But I see that you don't deny being a fetishist? So what's a typical mouse day then? Start off by boffing the dog, then you exchange posts with your weirdo pals on alt.lifestyle.furry calling yourself Yiff Bandicoot or something. Later you boink your plushies, then for a real laugh, you mess up alt.fan.furry by posing as a reactionary headcase called mouse who couldn't do “constructive” to save his own life.

And even if you really are a reactionary ranter, you're just as much a furry drama queen as the extreme lifestylers. It's just two sides of the same coin. Furrreeee.

i cant be bothered with your stupid bullshit swipecat

if you have anything to ask me you can reply to the email i sent you

Swipecat · Qualificator Joined: 15 Jul 2003 Posts: 22

OK, mouse.

And Mike!

Furrrreeee squared. I should have known that you'd be here. Well, of course, I know that YOU are a furry fetishist. You published the furry harem porn magazine called Furplay. You even sold me some copies :wink: But, of course, I'm glad to know that you're still buying furry harem porn for your own use - even after Furplay collapsed because you alienated the artists.

Wayd Wolf · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 456

Hi, Wayd and mouse. Since I've been quoted as being one of those in denial, I'll repeat what I've said in alt.fan.furry:

A very slimy and devious furry fetishist that wanted to damage furrydom's anthropomorphics advocates and thus steer furrydom towards being a support group for his kinks would do this:

Join a group (alt.fan.furry) that's frequented by his opponents but very few of his kinky friends and then pretend to be one of his own opponents. He'd loudly and continuously describe all kinds of fetishes and decry them in language that implies that all furries indulge in them. He'd fill his posts with profanity and abuse and do his best to make the environment unpleasant for furries that simply want to talk about anthropomorphics. Not forgetting to direct especially vile abuse at former Burned Fur members, if they take him to task for his behaviour. Engage the few furry lifestlyers in the group and use really absurd arguments so that the lifestylers' responses appear to be a model of moderation and rationality. i.e. behave like the one and only mouse.

Wayd does much the same.

And it's furries like me that have issues?? :roll:

Where have I heard this before? Oh yeah, every single time anyone claims there's a problem with furry, intimate that those pointing out the problems and damn near begging the fandom on their knees to open their eyes, stand up, and do something, are actually part of the problem.

Newsflash Swipe, that crap don't work. I wasn't on MTV. I'm not on these sites showing furry insanity and perversion. I wasn't the one casting death threats after someone's wedding at Anthrocon. I'm not the one publishing pictures of furry pedophilia, vore, rape, scat, and other ultra-extreme subjects. I'm not making out fursuit screwing to be an inherent part of furry. I don't screw plush toys.

What do I do? I write comedy and sci-fi/drama with an anthropomorphic bent. I'm married, own a house and car, have a career, and DO NOT LIVE SWIMMING IN FURRY much less in the cesspool end of things where so many others do.

You can either keep on denying there's a problem and by doing so keep watching as we end up with regular embarassments in the press and popular entertainment and watching furry after furry waste their lives in total uselessness, or you can take a stand. I find those who deny the problems, continuously attempt to obfuscate and make excuses, to be inexcuseably morally derelict and totally negligent in caring towards the very buttwipes who are at the core of the problem.

The question is, do you or anyone else care about these people pulling their heads out of their rumps and getting a life and finally finding the happiness they've heretofore not had the courage to go after the way countless millions of people do every day across the world without even thinking about it, or do you not care about anything but keeping the peace at all costs while that which is destroying furry keeps spreading like a cancer below the surface, eventually taking with it the entire thing, the reputations of those who aren't screw-ups, and the furverts as well?

So far as I can tell, the vast majority of those who aren't problem furs are uncaring about anything but their own little corner of furry and still not seeing their part in the collective failure of the fandom to do anything about its worst elements, and by so doing becoming even worse elements. Who's worse, the drug abusers and alcoholics, or the people who by doing and saying nothing about their self-destruction allow them to take everyone down with them? Society's answer to drunk driving if they followed furry would be to wink and smile at every drunk and hand them the keys.

Computolio · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 349

Sadly though, so long as there are assclowns like Ostrich blathering at any reporter out looking to make a story, mercenaries like Kevin "Assinio" Duane, Brian O'Connell, and Mike "Romus Z" Caddell out to scam a buck at all costs, and badly-made comics like ASB (but are still insanely popular amongst the furry crowd, even to this day long after they went out of publication), I fear that the only way to save furry fandom is to tear it down 100% and start all over again.

Wait, I'm feeling out of the loop here. I've heard about Brian O' Connell (of course), and I've heard some things (but not a lot) about Kevin Duane, but what's Mike Caddell's dramawhoring claim to fame? Besides wasting his talent on porn, that is.

Also: SWEARING GOOD

Swipecat · Qualificator Joined: 15 Jul 2003 Posts: 22

Wayd, Wayd, Wayd. Furrreeee cubed.

It's not WHAT you are attempting that's the problem; it's your METHOD. You'd have a fighting chance if you weren't so messed up yourself. The fact that you should get married at a furry con is a pretty good indication that you're in way too deep. And your rambling rants where you talk through your own problems while projecting them on furrydom are admittedly good entertainment, but they don't solve any problems. The "in denial" bit is the most glaring projection.

Swipecat · Qualificator Joined: 15 Jul 2003 Posts: 22

Wait, I'm feeling out of the loop here. I've heard about Brian O' Connell (of course), and I've heard some things (but not a lot) about Kevin Duane, but what's Mike Caddell's dramawhoring claim to fame? Besides wasting his talent on porn, that is.

Heh. As far as Mr. Michael "furplay" Hirtes is concerned, Caddell's biggest crime is to have sucess where he screwed up.

Michael Hirtes · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 519

Wait, I'm feeling out of the loop here. I've heard about Brian O' Connell (of course), and I've heard some things (but not a lot) about Kevin Duane, but what's Mike Caddell's dramawhoring claim to fame? Besides wasting his talent on porn, that is.
Heh. As far as Mr. Michael "furplay" Hirtes is concerned, Caddell's biggest crime is to have sucess where he screwed up.

This isn't AFF, loser. And you're not amongst your buddies here.

It's a very well known fact that Caddell is playing the furries for the sick (but free-spending) clods that they are. It's all one big act on his part. Like the old Cerebus shirt used to say, "He doesn't like you. He just wants all your money.".

As soon as things start getting lean for furrydom and the money stops flowing as freely, you can fully expect Caddell to pull up stakes and take his little sales tent to some other fandom.

I guess in a way, I should be happy that he's fleecing you goobers up a treat. More money into his pockets means less money for you clowns to hurt others with on different things.

Michael Hirtes · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 519

OK, mouse.

And Mike!

Furrrreeee squared. I should have known that you'd be here. Well, of course, I know that YOU are a furry fetishist. You published the furry harem porn magazine called Furplay. You even sold me some copies :wink: But, of course, I'm glad to know that you're still buying furry harem porn for your own use - even after Furplay collapsed because you alienated the artists.

Ancient history, doofus. Haven't you been reading any of these articles? There are a LOT of people who were ONCE in furry fandom, but left after it became too messed up to put up with any longer. To put in "Matrix" terms, you weirdos are the machines that took over, and CYD is like Zion. A refuge from toxic jackasses such as yourself.

Yeah, I did a zine back in the day when furrydom was something that it's not now: a genre where people were just fans of a particular art form and talked about it. God, how I miss those halcion days. Back then, those who felt "trapped in a human's body" or wanted to get a group together to rape some shetland pony were still in the extreme fringes. As we all well know (well, WE know. YOU seem to still have your head stuffed into your ass), those fringes took over and turned it into a nightmare.

I suppose you're going to bug the shit out of Reed Waller too for his past stuff, even though he's left all things Omaha behind years ago for a better life.

And as far as alienating the artists, apparently, you're mistaken. I have several commissions in the works from some recognisable names. I'm not going to tell you who they are because I don't want you bugging them, nutjob.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

This isn't AFF, loser. And you're not amongst your buddies here.

It's a very well known fact that Caddell is playing the furries for the sick (but free-spending) loons that they are. As soon as things start getting lean for furrydom, you can fully expect Caddell to pull up stakes and take his little sales tent to some other fandom.

I guess in a way, I should be happy that he's fleecing you goobers up a treat. More money to him means less money for you clowns to hurt yourselves with on other things.

Hee!
You make me laugh.
I think broadly speaking, Swipecat maketh good points.

There is no problem with “furry fandom” itself, nor with the content of it.
What is the problem is the utter failure of the governments worldwide to help the most vulnerable people, for example those suffering mental illness, depression or physical disabilities, or people who are “merely” poor or lacking in opportunities.

As you can see, some of these people participate in furry fandom, but it is the failure of the goverments and the ruleing classes to help them which is the real issue at hand here.

-Dave

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

and CYD is like Zion. A refuge from toxic jackasses such as yourself.

You mean it’s a place where you can peddle your rubbish without being spanked like you are on AFF.

If you can’t get attention by being creative and contributing something
You’ll just try and get it by being hated eh?

You deserve better, But an obsessive hatred for certain people within the furry fandom is your downfall.

You spend a lot of time hanging round furry related things, you hand around AFF, here and elsewhere.

Yet If you truly hated furry, you would have nothing whatsoever to do with it.

But as it is, you are a sad obsessive.

Swipecat · Qualificator Joined: 15 Jul 2003 Posts: 22

Heh. He makes me laugh too.

Publishing a furry harem bondange porn magazine, and then saying that it's everbody else's fault. And he's just admitted that some artists are producing some art for his personal use. What'd you bet that it's furry harem bondage porn? Good luck to them for taking furplay's money.

Hey Vasco, hows your Wayd rant generator coming along?

Michael Hirtes · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 519

This isn't AFF, loser. And you're not amongst your buddies here.

It's a very well known fact that Caddell is playing the furries for the sick (but free-spending) loons that they are. As soon as things start getting lean for furrydom, you can fully expect Caddell to pull up stakes and take his little sales tent to some other fandom.

I guess in a way, I should be happy that he's fleecing you goobers up a treat. More money to him means less money for you clowns to hurt yourselves with on other things.

Hee!
You make me laugh.
I think broadly speaking, Swipecat maketh good points.

There is no problem with “furry fandom” itself, nor with the content of it.
What is the problem is the utter failure of the governments worldwide to help the most vulnerable people, for example those suffering mental illness, depression or physical disabilities, or people who are “merely” poor or lacking in opportunities.

As you can see, some of these people participate in furry fandom, but it is the failure of the goverments and the ruleing classes to help them which is the real issue at hand here.

-Dave

I doubt this can be laid on the doorstep of any governmental negligence. I'm more than certain that even if this were a socialised society a la Northern Europe, the furries would actually be demanding subsidies for dogs to rape and a government check to have fursuits & plushies professionally tailored in Paris.

Oh dear Lord. That's the LAST thing we need to see on this already sorry-ass planet!

Michael Hirtes · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 519

Heh. He makes me laugh too.

Publishing a furry harem bondange porn magazine, and then saying that it's everbody else's fault. And he's just admitted that some artists are producing some art for his personal use. What'd you bet that it's furry harem bondage porn? Good luck to them for taking furplay's money.

Hey Vasco, hows your Wayd rant generator coming along?

"furry harem bondange porn magazine! furry harem bondange porn magazine! blahblahblahblah!"

Switch to another track, willya? That CD you're on now is stuck.

And guess what? I sold a lot of them in it's time. Apparently, there were a lot of people who wanted that sorta stuff too. How do you explain THAT, dickhead?

Is there a copy lurking around in YOUR collection, Wipey? :twisted:

SUCKER!!

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

watching as we end up with regular embarassments in the press and popular entertainment and watching furry after furry waste their lives in total uselessness,

I have seen several people waste their life (or rather have it wasted), not because they were furries (they were not furries at all), but because they were poor.

Some of them were very talented at things, music, writing et al.

But their comparative poverty meant they could not really afford to go to universitrty, to take their skills and talents further. One got involved in drugs, or they got thrown out by their parents, or they had to get menial jobs.

If you want to take a stand, oppose third world debt, support welfare schemes, agitate for FAPU healthcare, oppose globalisation, something like that.

Michael Hirtes · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 519

watching as we end up with regular embarassments in the press and popular entertainment and watching furry after furry waste their lives in total uselessness,

I have seen several people waste their life (or rather have it wasted), not because they were furries (they were not furries at all), but because they were poor.

Some of them were very talented at things, music, writing et al.

But their comparative poverty meant they could not really afford to go to universitrty, to take their skills and talents further. One got involved in drugs, or they got thrown out by their parents, or they had to get menial jobs.

If you want to take a stand, oppose third world debt, support welfare schemes, agitate for FAPU healthcare, oppose globalisation, something like that.

Those things are well beyond you & I, unfortunately.

There once was a sanctuary called Furry Fandom, but we all know what happened.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

Heh. He makes me laugh too.

Publishing a furry harem bondange porn magazine, and then saying that it's everbody else's fault. And he's just admitted that some artists are producing some art for his personal use. What'd you bet that it's furry harem bondage porn? Good luck to them for taking furplay's money.

Hey Vasco, hows your Wayd rant generator coming along?

I can’t be bothered with it anymore ATM.
But I think it’s sad really, If WAYD were to put half the energy into writing as he doth into ranting, I’m sure that he’d be churning out worthy story after worthy story.

If hirtes were to spend half the time he spends ranting and raving over furries, learning to draw or building bridges again with artists, or going out or whatever.
I’m sure he too could contribute in a positive manner to furry or even just keep away from it sucessfully.

If all the people who overtly rant and rave and froth, were to take action commensurate with “improving” furry or even just producing Anthromorphic animal work that of the sort that they want everyone else to make, It might be more worthy.

But as it is, it’s sorry tale of wrack and ruin.

-David S.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

watching as we end up with regular embarassments in the press and popular entertainment and watching furry after furry waste their lives in total uselessness,

Uhhh, Swipecat did not really write those things FWIW>
WAYD did, but I cut and snipped to hastily or something like that and misattributed it.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

Alt.Fan.Furry has sprung a leak! When can we return back to the scheduled show of laughing at idiots?

Swipecat · Qualificator Joined: 15 Jul 2003 Posts: 22

Alt.Fan.Furry has sprung a leak! When can we return back to the scheduled show of laughing at idiots?

Hey, come on. This place is comedy central right now. And you're complaining?

Swipecat · Qualificator Joined: 15 Jul 2003 Posts: 22

"furry harem bondange porn magazine! furry harem bondange porn magazine! blahblahblahblah!" Switch to another track, willya? That CD you're on now is stuck. And guess what? I sold a lot of them in it's time. Apparently, there were a lot of people who wanted that sorta stuff too. How do you explain THAT, dickhead? Is there a copy lurking around in YOUR collection, Wipey? :twisted: SUCKER!!

:roll: Didn't I say that you sold me some copies, furplay? $3 each for fanzines with a print run of 100 means negative return for you and small change out of my pocket. But how much are you paying for your commissions, eh? Now THAT is serious money. Who was the sucker, again?

Wayd Wolf · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 456

Wayd, Wayd, Wayd. Furrreeee cubed.

It's not WHAT you are attempting that's the problem; it's your METHOD. You'd have a fighting chance if you weren't so messed up yourself. The fact that you should get married at a furry con is a pretty good indication that you're in way too deep. And your rambling rants where you talk through your own problems while projecting them on furrydom are admittedly good entertainment, but they don't solve any problems. The "in denial" bit is the most glaring projection.

Get a clue Swipe. I was asked to hold the mock wedding with my fiance at Anthrocon by staffers who wanted to do something nice for me. It was supposed to be a quiet thing in the dealer room on the lower level on the raised platform at the rear which wasn't being used. It snowballed outside my having anything to do with it when they decided there'd be too many con-goers in the dealer room and it could be a complication so they moved it to the main ballroom in the middle of the costume contest.

Unlike a couple hundred other people, I was dressed in a business suit. I bought maybe five comics and two pieces of art that weekend TOTAL. I was combining this with my vacation in MA and drove all the way from the cape to Albany and back so as to not disappoint people who put a lot of work into making this happen.

Note that NO ONE made a peep about the fictitious wedding of RoxiKat and Jack Salem immediately following my own. Oh no, fursuiters getting their characters married is okay, but two REAL PEOPLE getting married isn't.

And you're still trying to insinuate that I'm one of the furverts. Prove it, dipstick. When have I EVER extolled the virtues of fucking in fursuits, fucking animals, fucking plush dolls, or just generally sitting around being a loser who spends all their time at the computer in furry fantasyland? NEVER, that's when.

In fact, when the CF8 nightmare blew up, I tried to stand in the middle and make some sort of peace. To calm down those who were enraged beyond belief and at the same time try to talk sense to those misbehaving. What happened? I got very nice words from Kishma Danielle on my take on the CF8 elevator incident, I got several good friends to this day, and a whole slew of enemies in both the Burned Fur(I was too much the peacemaker and laid back, not angry and hating enough) and FurvertXtreme(anyone questioning the righteousness of their lifestyle is their enemy, hence 99.9999999% of the Earth's current population) crowds.

All you have is veiled assertions and inuendo and not one thing. You certainly cannot argue in favor of the furverts and furfreaks and losers. You certainly cannot argue in favor of them remaining without real good friends, jobs that matter, signifigant others to spend their lives with, decent public reputations, and a future free of depressed self-pity and self-delusion.

Well, by continuing to sling mud at me personally, you're just joining the demented morons. Note that when I make points about furry asswipe behaviour, I don't mention specific names as they are well known enough, those who I reference. If you're waiting for me to turn this into a personal one-on-one mudslinging contest, you're wasting your time. I'm not a school-yard bully. I will be a drill instructor and kick ass one on one if need be.

Too bad you have nothing to contribute to fixing furry but to tear at those doing the repair work. I feel sorry for you.

Wayd Wolf · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 456

I can’t be bothered with it anymore ATM.
But I think it’s sad really, If WAYD were to put half the energy into writing as he doth into ranting, I’m sure that he’d be churning out worthy story after worthy story.

News flash, David. I NO LONGER HAVE ANY INTEREST IN WRITING FOR THE LOSERS WHO CANNOT APPRECIATE HARD WORK. Period. the ONLY reasons I bother to write any fiction anymore are my own amusement and for those friends of mine who still lurk through a.f.f.

And I am apparently about ten billion times smarter than you because in my head, I tend to write entire chapters while standing in line at McDonald's. I tend to conceive massive story arcs and intricate familial bloodlines in the space of time it takes me to finish a bowl of Dunhill Nightcap in a Hilson Fantasia.

Now, if you think that I can't get anything done because I'm too busy ranting, rude suprise here: those are throw-away clock cycles as it were. I wrote twenty-five episodes worth of Toon Girls in about two days. One rant takes only as long as it takes to type and I think about fifteen paragraphs ahead and the typing that I am doing at this instant is actually buffer fill.

Considering that I'm an amature next to some of the people I hang with all the time, you're not even coming close to being on the same shelf as me Dave. You have a very fancy education regarding English literature and history, but you're wasting way too much time if you can only do one thing at a time and not multitask. BTW, as I write this I am also going over about seven hundred cable audits from the past week in my head street by street, number by number. And on top of that, I'm balancing my proposed household budget for next year which my family will blow all to Hell like congress diddling what the executive branch formulates.

As I said, I'm not wasting large amounts of my time on ranting instead of writing. Unlike an artist, a storyteller can work without physical medium and do it all down on paper later. I'm not wasting my time in ranting either because those of you who respond just make yourselves look like furverts because you respond in the fashion of "methinks he doth protest too much". IOW, you feel my digs on furfreaks reflect on you, so you have to defend yourself. But I never single you out as one of those problem weasels, only an obstructionist.

And besides outing problem people whether hardcore ninnies or obstructionists, my rants are reaching a fair number of lurkers, and I've been e-mailed some very encouraging words. I'm not giving up on the plushfuckers and animal boinkers. I'm going to keep kicking their butts as a group and shaking from their twisted tree as many nuts that can be saved as possible.

So what are YOU doing to help any of the losers stop being losers and become winners? Oh yeah, you're counseling socialism and blaming society rather than self-reliance and facing reality. That's going to help. Sure...

Michael Hirtes · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 519

Didn't I say that you sold me some copies, furplay? $3 each for fanzines with a print run of 100 means negative return for you and small change out of my pocket. But how much are you paying for your commissions, eh? Now THAT is serious money. Who was the sucker, again?

Whatever, clown. All you're doing here is trying to contaminate the CYD forums with your AFF style antics. If you think it's going to crumble like the Burned Furs, you're in for a shock.

And by the way, it's T-Minus Eight Days left until that episode of C.S.I. airs, and the biggest exposure of furry fandom to ever be made (no more saying "Well, no one really reads Vanity Fair/No one really watches Mtv". You're being outted by the BIG Boys now.).

In that one night, more people will know about "furry fandom" (in all it's disturbing glory) than all the years of Loaded/Vanity Fair/Mtv/Marie Claire/Daily Show combined. And guess what? The results are NOT going to be pretty for "people" like you in the long run.

You may as well try to enjoy your last moments of relative peace instead of wasting them by trolling on CYD with your buttbuddy Vasco. Life as "one of those furries" is going to be sheer Hell for you from that moment on.

Wayd Wolf · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 456

And by the way, it's T-Minus Eight Days left until that episode of C.S.I. airs, and the biggest exposure of furry fandom to ever be made (no more saying "Well, no one really reads Vanity Fair/No one really watches Mtv". You're being outted by the BIG Boys now.).

If anything this is only going to further the outer world's interest in subcultures beyond Trekkies and computer geeks. CSI will make furries look like loons, and furries go out of their way to look like loons.

Once upon a time I said who cares what the outside world thinks? I DID NOT mean that furries should do everything they could to get noticed. You don't see BDSM freaks, infantilists, and other such fringe people trying desperately to claim that their behaviour is normal. Only furries go to great lengths to make their inane obsessions look not only acceptable, but cool.

Bring on CSI and the inevitable aftermath! I can hear the excuse makers getting their pencils sharpened already...

Michael Hirtes · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 519

If anything this is only going to further the outer world's interest in subcultures beyond Trekkies and computer geeks. CSI will make furries look like loons, and furries go out of their way to look like loons.

At this point, I'm glad. LET the furries be the sickest and saddest they can be, this accelerating their own demise. I consider it a case of karmic aversion therapy.

Once upon a time I said who cares what the outside world thinks? I DID NOT mean that furries should do everything they could to get noticed. You don't see BDSM freaks, infantilists, and other such fringe people trying desperately to claim that their behaviour is normal. Only furries go to great lengths to make their inane obsessions look not only acceptable, but cool.

And fail at it miserably.

Bring on CSI and the inevitable aftermath! I can hear the excuse makers getting their pencils sharpened already...

I can already guess that the furries will spin faster than a CD-R in a 48X drive. To me, that's further proof that they're so messed up that cannot see their own glaring faults, even if you put it right up into their faces and had a HUGE neon sign that said "THESE ARE YOUR GLARING FAULTS!!".

IMO, furry fandom is too far contaminated to be saved. The only thing to do is to utterly tear it down to the ground, and I hope C.S.I is only the tip of the iceberg to come.

Computolio · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 349

It's a very well known fact that Caddell is playing the furries for the sick (but free-spending) clods that they are. It's all one big act on his part. Like the old Cerebus shirt used to say, "He doesn't like you. He just wants all your money.".

Untold fuckloads of furries do this very thing; what makes this guy so unique?

As soon as things start getting lean for furrydom and the money stops flowing as freely, you can fully expect Caddell to pull up stakes and take his little sales tent to some other fandom.

I dunno. Although he can actually draw humans competently, that furry stigma sure sticks pretty hard. (The ability to render humans decently is a furry artist rarity, and the only real reason he stuck in my mind)

ALSO:

Alt.Fan.Furry has sprung a leak! When can we return back to the scheduled show of laughing at idiots?

TAKE NOTE BOYS AND GIRLS

Swipecat · Qualificator Joined: 15 Jul 2003 Posts: 22

Alt.Fan.Furry has sprung a leak! When can we return back to the scheduled show of laughing at idiots?

TAKE NOTE BOYS AND GIRLS

You hadn't noticed this before with the likes of Wayd, furplay, and mouse posting here?

Oh and furplay? Just rememer that there's a whole load of very cruel things that I could say here about you. I'm not going to though, despite that being a consideration that you seem incapable of yourself. Fragile spun glass houses, and all that.

Michael Hirtes · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 519

Alt.Fan.Furry has sprung a leak! When can we return back to the scheduled show of laughing at idiots?

TAKE NOTE BOYS AND GIRLS

You hadn't noticed this before with the likes of Wayd, furplay, and mouse posting here?

Oh and furplay? Just rememer that there's a whole load of very cruel things that I could say here about you.

Oh my. I absolutely shit my pants in terror.

I'm not going to though, despite that being a consideration that you seem incapable of yourself. Fragile spun glass houses, and all that.

Okay. Whatever. :roll:

DA · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 320

you know the real problem with the fandom, it's that the weirdos weren't kicked out when it started, therefore any idiot with a bizarre fetish ie beastiality, fursuiting sex or other stuff put their tent up under the whole furry thing because the relatively normal people in the fandom didn't say no-way and now there are way too many to ever remove.

Michael Hirtes · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 519

you know the real problem with the fandom, it's that the weirdos weren't kicked out when it started, therefore any idiot with a bizarre fetish ie beastiality, fursuiting sex or other stuff put their tent up under the whole furry thing because the relatively normal people in the fandom didn't say no-way and now there are way too many to ever remove.

Anyone ever seen those commercials with the CGI-ed toenail fungus (sorry, those outside the US, it's a domestic thing. See http://slate.msn.com/id/2085432/ for streaming video)? That kinda reminds me of furries. One gets in, starts to invite all of his "friends", and takes over the whole shebang with no mercy.

Wayd Wolf · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 456

you know the real problem with the fandom, it's that the weirdos weren't kicked out when it started, therefore any idiot with a bizarre fetish ie beastiality, fursuiting sex or other stuff put their tent up under the whole furry thing because the relatively normal people in the fandom didn't say no-way and now there are way too many to ever remove.

Pretty much the genesis of it, DA. People who were only slightly tweaked, trek types, SCA'ers, so on who probably thought, "hmmm, if I don't tolerate their behaviour, it might look badly for me later on... Maybe I better keep quiet and be tolerant and understanding."

Many years later...

Well, you can't tolerate the intolerable, try to understand that which passeth beyond all knowing, and be supportive of the unsupportable and NOT have it bite you in the arse. This is what we get for that long ago mistake.

BTW all, a number of the earliest participants in furry have dabled in the seedier things at points and this keeps getting brought up by some of the long time problem furs as yet another excuse. Mark Merlino and other furs who've come up in discussion since CF8 or even before, whatever their faults, are not a catch-all blanket to say, "it's okay because this (insert well known furry of yore here) was into (insert fetish here) or was (insert sexual preference here) so why is it not okay for me?"

It wasn't, still isn't, won't ever be.

CSI will show furry to be sad people with no lives who have to role-play all the time (and much, much, worse as we well know some) to keep from reaching suicidal bottom. No, I don't want them to just whack themselves and get it over with. I want them to straighten out (behaviouraly, not sexual-preference-wise) and learn to live the kind of better rounded life oh, say, six billion others do every day without being such dipsticks.

Why is that so hard for the detractors to grasp? Because, I think, deep down, they prefer a screwed-up fandom with worse examples than them exactly so they can point them out by name which I try to avoid doing, and say, "I'm not a weirdo, those guys are weirdos." Flash and company can keep on edging closer to unacceptable behaviour, maybe occassionally crossing the line, and still never be questioned (in their minds) as to whether they're a problem fur.

I am not accusing Flash personally because other than his smacks at me, I don't know him from Adam. But he has outed himself clearly as an obstructionist and obfuscator. That's a sad response to Loaded, Vanity Fair, Something Awful, Portal of Evil, MTV, CSI, and the ten thousand other places furry dysfunctionality keeps getting outed every year. More sad is that it is the majority response to criticism of the structural defects of today's furry fandom.

But you know something? I heard more praise of the Burned Furs in private than I ever head dissing. "They are a bit extreme, but..." was the general gist. You can either name problem furs by name and each and every incident by place and date and be called mean for attacking personally, or you can speak generally about people who know who they are and get called delusional and accused of making it all up. Either way, we who criticize will never be listened to. Even after it all implodes and incinerates in bad feelings and ill will in a few more years, the survivors will never point to those who made these points years earlier and say, "whe should have listened before (insert inevitable event here) occured." Acceptance of reprocussions for behaviour either passive or active is not a character trait of better than 95% of the furs I've ever run across.

Dave was about one thing. They DO need competent psychological help. But not non-judgemental acceptance. That's like telling a drunk driver or drug abuser that it is okay to do what they do. It isn't and if you care for the ones with the problems, you have to slap some reality across their faces.

DA · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 320

It doesn't bother me over much if someone wants to claim he's really a squirrel he can go live up a tree and eat nuts for all I care.

It's the one's who break the laws....the one's into so called 'cubs' artwork which is just a few feet away from child pornography, or beastiality that need to be outed and told they are unacceptable.

I don't care if little jimmy likes pretending to be a cyber vixen with jordan-esq figure, what freaks me out is that people do this stuff then try to pretend it's normal.... :? not only that but they need to broadcast it to all and sundry as well?

I've been in the fandom just over a year and I've met far more 'normal' people than I have the weirdos who proclaim their furriness from every damn hill they can find.

:twisted: it's like they're saying, I'm sick but i'm accepted here and theres nothing you can do about it. shame really....

Ethan A. Stanger · Rasophore Joined: 23 Oct 2003 Posts: 53

you know the real problem with the fandom, it's that the weirdos weren't kicked out when it started, therefore any idiot with a bizarre fetish ie beastiality, fursuiting sex or other stuff put their tent up under the whole furry thing because the relatively normal people in the fandom didn't say no-way and now there are way too many to ever remove.

The problem with the "furry fandom" is that it's a fandom and the problem with "furries" is that they're fans. Any fanbase and/or a fan is a problem.

What once was a good genre, form, subject of art became a moronic social group with their unaesthetic and unprofessional labels, where the mindset was created that anybody could draw and that anything remotely having to do with bipedal animals was "furry"! From there, it went straight to the gutter

Another problem is that the "furries" can't tell the difference between art and their pathetic social group. Granted that there isn't a lot of skillfully drawn material out there, but it's there if you look through the shit that is their "furry" art.

Wayd Wolf · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 456

you know the real problem with the fandom, it's that the weirdos weren't kicked out when it started, therefore any idiot with a bizarre fetish ie beastiality, fursuiting sex or other stuff put their tent up under the whole furry thing because the relatively normal people in the fandom didn't say no-way and now there are way too many to ever remove.

The problem with the "furry fandom" is that it's a fandom and the problem with "furries" is that they're fans. Any fanbase and/or a fan is a problem.

What once was a good genre, form, subject of art became a moronic social group with their unaesthetic and unprofessional labels, where the mindset was created that anybody could draw and that anything remotely having to do with bipedal animals was "furry"! From there, it went straight to the gutter

Another problem is that the "furries" can't tell the difference between art and their pathetic social group. Granted that there isn't a lot of skillfully drawn material out there, but it's there if you look through the shit that is their "furry" art.

Very true. It is very strange that furry fandom is one of the very few if not the only to spring from itself rather than some external source, no matter how much some reference Disney. Trek's center is obvious. Sci-fi has had writers just doing their thing independent of any fandom for years. We never really had anthropomorphics for the sake of that.

But then, do people write sci-fi for the sake of science fiction or are they telling a story? I've long thought sci-fi for the sake of sci-fi is more often crap than that which was merely a story in sci-fi clothing. The best in any genre merely happens to be in that genre, not actually be written just for it.

Similarly, we have a lot of crap in furry as you say simply because it has an anthropomorphic creature in it.

As to their social group, strip furries of furry characters and you get Trekkies stripped of the respectability of Trek which furry doesn't and never will have. And I don't mean respectability that covers their actions. No matter how good Trek is, it can't make slash fiction look normal, much less good.

But Trekkies are in my experience a lot less screwed in their extreme members than those similar in furry, and they have a lot fewer both in number and percentage. You'd expect if they were really alike to have more given the larger number of Trekkies but not that I've ever seen. The whole welcoming and tolerating thing snowballed and now...

Michael Hirtes · Coadjutor Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 519

Very true. It is very strange that furry fandom is one of the very few if not the only to spring from itself rather than some external source, no matter how much some reference Disney. Trek's center is obvious. Sci-fi has had writers just doing their thing independent of any fandom for years. We never really had anthropomorphics for the sake of that.

But then, do people write sci-fi for the sake of science fiction or are they telling a story? I've long thought sci-fi for the sake of sci-fi is more often crap than that which was merely a story in sci-fi clothing. The best in any genre merely happens to be in that genre, not actually be written just for it.

Similarly, we have a lot of crap in furry as you say simply because it has an anthropomorphic creature in it.

As to their social group, strip furries of furry characters and you get Trekkies stripped of the respectability of Trek which furry doesn't and never will have. And I don't mean respectability that covers their actions. No matter how good Trek is, it can't make slash fiction look normal, much less good.

But Trekkies are in my experience a lot less screwed in their extreme members than those similar in furry, and they have a lot fewer both in number and percentage. You'd expect if they were really alike to have more given the larger number of Trekkies but not that I've ever seen. The whole welcoming and tolerating thing snowballed and now...

But, here's the rub. You see, at least Trek's fandom has enough respect by the masses that corporations will actually CATER to them (just like some companies cater to anime fans with cable networks & translated manga/anime lines).

I mean, fer krissakes! There's a whole section of the Las Vegas Hilton dedicated to Star Trek (I recommend trying the "Warp Core Breach" at Quark's. It's one half cocktail, one half special effect)!! Trek and anime fans may have their fringe elements, but unlike in furry, they are the minority. THAT'S where the furries attempt to compare themselves to Trek is shot down in flames.

Fat freakin' chance of furry ever being able to get supported like this.

Wayd Wolf · Coadjutor Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 456

But, here's the rub. You see, at least Trek's fandom has enough respect by the masses that corporations will actually CATER to them (just like some companies cater to anime fans with cable networks & translated manga/anime lines).

I mean, fer krissakes! There's a whole section of the Las Vegas Hilton dedicated to Star Trek (I recommend trying the "Warp Core Breach" at Quark's. It's one half cocktail, one half special effect)!! Trek and anime fans may have their fringe elements, but unlike in furry, they are the minority. THAT'S where the furries attempt to compare themselves to Trek is shot down in flames.

Fat freakin' chance of furry ever being able to get supported like this.

Exactly, and what's worse is that legions of furs don't know it either. Sooooo many live in a fantasy world thinking that The Lion King was made just for furries and that the werewolves in Underworld were for them. If a movie was made strictly for the furry masses, it would suck beyond all other things ever made. Worse than Carrot Top doing porn with Estelle Getty, worse than Mike Tyson taking up opera, worse even than tiger guy getting his own show on Animal Planet dubbed in Croatian and subtitled in Vietnamese.

I shudder to even consider it.

I sometimes wonder what the professional animators who've worked on things like The Lion King think about large numbers of people jonesing to do the horizontal bop with Nala, or the way so many believe that Animalympics is solely the property of furries, or that Babs Bunny is hot.

Oh yeah, there's that whole Quozl, TTBS, and so on stuff to give us an idea.

Dogthing · Coadjutor Joined: 26 Oct 2003 Posts: 207

I have seen several people waste their life (or rather have it wasted), not because they were furries (they were not furries at all), but because they were poor.

Some of them were very talented at things, music, writing et al.

But their comparative poverty meant they could not really afford to go to universitrty, to take their skills and talents further. One got involved in drugs, or they got thrown out by their parents, or they had to get menial jobs.

If you want to take a stand, oppose third world debt, support welfare schemes, agitate for FAPU healthcare, oppose globalisation, something like that.

So by your logic, we would become the willing slaves of the needy?

Yeah, no third world debt and the end to world hunger and healthcare for all of earth's beautiful little children sounds real great, sweetheart. There's one problem though: There would still be the ruling class. Oh yes, the ruling class of the impovershed, the needy, the poor. They would rule the lives of tose of us who want to work for ourselves.

In your teenaged idealistic clusterfuck of a world, everyone would live a dull, grey, grinding life, no risk, no involvement, no chance to rise. Humans live for achievement.

We are achievers.

We would constantly have our hard work be devoured by those who are too lazy to make something of themselves, exert some effort to achieve something. Well, we simply wouldn't have a sense of purpose anymore. No reason to work but for some delusional crusader for equality in all's idea of a perfect world where the PEOPLE have the power, not the government. Yeah! Stick it to the man!

Without a sense of purpose, we have so sense of life, without a sense of life, we are dead. If we are dead, the world is dead. A dead, grey world, where people were simply machines to make oil for the not-as-well-oiled other machines.

Pleasant.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

In the furry fandom first came the fursuiters, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a fursuiter. Then came the plushy fuckers, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a plushy fucker. Then came the beastialists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a beastialist. Then came the furry pedophiles, unbirth, and vore fetishists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a furry pedophile, unbirth, or vore fetishist. Then it was just a sea of fucking depraved, loony degenerates and me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up.

Oh how I cannot wait for CSI's "Fur and Loathing".

Thank you for showing everyone what we've known for far too long.

SLaitila · Coadjutor Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 126

We are achievers.

You could say being blacklisted by the FBI in EVERY SINGLE POSSIBLE sex offender-category is an achievement.

Anonymous · Coadjutor Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 767

So by your logic, we would become the willing slaves of the needy?

Argument by extremes, you are putting your own slant on it, which has everything to do with your own prejudices and nothing to do with what I actually wrote.

I

Yeah, no third world debt and the end to world hunger

Did you know that we actually grow more than enough food to feed the world?
Unfortunately, It's not equally distributed, so we end up with bloated Americans who look like hot air balloons, and skeletal children in Africa.

and healthcare for all of earth's beautiful little children sounds real great, sweetheart. There's one problem though: There would still be the ruling class. Oh yes, the ruling class of the impoverished, the needy, the poor. They would rule the lives of tose of us who want to work for ourselves.

Civil society is what makes human achievement and human life, as you know it possible.
Civil society is the framework within which our materiel life as humans takes place.

You owe it to others, and they owe it to you, since the co-operation of all is required to build a working civil society.

One of the reasons why there is such high crime, murder, violence and unemplyoment rates in american ATM, and why you get kids dieing from preventable deaseses and why american is a third world country for those who arn't rich, is because of the decay of civil society.

Where would the businessman be without the man who makes his car?
Where would the pilot be, without the man who makes the planes?

On healthcare, even basic economics dictates that a healthy workforce is a productive workforce. FAPU healthcare is a long-term investment; of course, thinking anything beyond the short term is probably an alien concept to you.

Your reactionary stance is a purely ideological and hate driven one.

In your teenaged idealistic clusterfuck of a world, everyone would live a dull, grey, grinding life, no risk, no involvement, no chance to rise. Humans live for achievement.

The men who walked on the moon did not just up one day and fly off into space.
Despite the rubbish you would spout.

It was a collective effort (Know what that means?) on the part of thousands. Paid for by the taxes of millions.

We are achievers.

Notice the "we" bit?

We would constantly have our hard work be devoured by those who are too lazy to make something of themselves, exert some effort to achieve

Are you saying that poor people WANT to be poor?
Pardon me while I smirk at your teenage ignorance and belligerence. :o)

something. Well, we simply wouldn't have a sense of purpose anymore. No reason to work but for some delusional crusader for equality in all's idea of a perfect world where the PEOPLE have the power, not the government. Yeah! Stick it to the man!

In case you didn't realise genius, there is no meaning to life.
Also, The people do ultimately have the power, people can overthrow goverments in case you didn't notice, and if everyone in a country choose to strike say... that can bring a goverment to it's knees, for example see boliva, where the president has just gone or argentina.

Without a sense of purpose, we have so sense of life, without a sense of life, we are dead. If we are dead, the world is dead. A dead, grey world, where people were simply machines to make oil for the not-as-well-oiled other machines.

Pleasant.

If you're a selfish little shit, just say so, and stop makeing pretences to anything more pelase.

bobby · Rasophore Joined: 27 Oct 2003 Posts: 70

There are lots of poor people out there who are poor intentionally.

Bobby: heh. you need to get a job :>
furry: i cant even do a resume proper
furry: chances of theat are slim.
furry: that*
Bobby: well you don't plan to spend your life unemployed living with parents, do you?
furry: no.
furry: i unfortunitly just lack the drive to do so.

There's an example. Some random local furry starts sending me IMs wanting to meet up with me for god knows what reason. (I dig and he has a pounced.org profile, christ) He's 20, penniless, lives with his parents and has no desire or motivation to get a job or do anything productive with his life.

They're not the norm of course, I can't think of many poor people who LIKE being poor. But like it or not I can think of many more who are poor by their own means, not by the means of others. No motivation, saddled with children they shouldn't have had, saddled with debts from gambling or drugs, etc. One can say that as a demographic, poorer people tend to have less strong a will to succeed than successful people do.

It can be said to be a fault of society, however poor people have existed since the dawn of humanity, there's always been someone who was worse off than the rest of the cavemen due to being weaker or less strong-willed than the others were. That was a part of evolution. Humanity's problem is that societal conditions have usurped evolution as a condition for reproduction, because genetics no longer play the dominant role in who gets to reproduce or succeed in the societal chain of command.

It'll take us a long time to sort these problems out.

Wakestar · Recusant Joined: 27 Aug 2003 Posts: 20

Hey, I think I know that asshole. judging by the way he spells, anyways... He's a hopless case. He's not only usless, but he has a usless additude, and he likes to try to spread it around. No joke.
People like this are part of the problem.