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Crush...Yiff...Destroy! The CYD Forum Archive
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Naylor vs Hirtes - a battle to the DEAF!
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Rankin
Needs to get out more
Joined: 03 Jan 2004
Posts: 891
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Posted: 10/24/2004 9:28:04 PM
Post subject: Naylor vs Hirtes - a battle to the DEAF! |
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Yep.
Jay's now caught up in Mike's mental issues. As viewed here:
Oh my.
I remember Michael Hirtes from back in the 1990s. My bemusement at CYD only became more acute when I realized the kind of people that were contributing. Just about every creator that's had any experience in the fandom in the 1990s has a story about Michael Hirtes. The creature that is Hirtes is such an odd example of desperate, helpless anger and frustration, that I can't imagine why he hasn't been the subject of a CYD article to date. When I first encountered Hirtes, he was publishing several fanzines that were selling through MailBox books. This was back when the internet was just reaching maturity and the days of vast online art archives were yet to be realized. A lot of work was still traded in embarassingly sad black and white booklets featuring individual pinups of varying quality from page to page. New talent would use them as stepping stones to publication, and when he asked me for work, I sent a few pieces his way. Why people paid for these books, I'll never fathom, but he seemed to have a relationship of charitable sympathy with MailBox Books, which would purchase batches of his booklets every time he put one out.
Hirtes lived in some Midwestern city at the time that I knew him, managing to scrape a living off of his Government disability check. He never revealed the nature of his disability to anyone who asked, and it lead most people with any degree of experience with him to conclude the disability was mental, if anything at all. Every phone conversation with him was sort of like speaking with a twelve year old. Somewhat on the verge of adult thinking, yet never quite there. Never quite having had that big life responsibility enema that everyone stumbles into at one point in their life where they finally resolve to get their shit together. Most of it consisted of begging for new pictures to put in his books. Because I'd contributed a few of them, and didn't block his phone calls, and he hadn't managed to hack me off to the degree where I refused him, I was invited to get together with him and about five other creative types in Las Vegas for a decent time. He'd acquired some kind of flight miles program thing that he could transfer to somebody, and since either didn't need them or couldn't use them within whatever time, he gave them to me.
Names of note that I recall being there.. this was well over six or seven years ago.. included Michael Flynn, a fairly decent person, and Ted Sheppard, another fairly okay kinda guy. With this ensemble, we managed to have a decent time checking things out. Hirtes primary reason for going, along with another gentleman who flew all the way from England, was to visit one of the legal brothels outside of the city limit. What a way to blow your Government disability check. The rest of us who didn't need to pay someone hundreds of dollars to convince them to have sex with us, didn't partake. What I feared might be an excercise in the spiralling endless dark pit of mental disability, started to manifest itself when Hirtes managed to win something around $300 in chips at the hotel casino and then brilliantly managed to lose it all the next day trying to win more. The pouty depression started from that point and culminated in all it's brilliance when the gentleman from England (I can't remember his name) who was driving our rental van, managed to accidentally scrape another car while dipping into a left hand turn lane at a major intersection. This would impact the the English gentleman's financial blow from the trip. Even though he wasn't driving, somehow... in some convoluted type of logical reach, Hirtes managed to blame himself for "everything going downhill". Flynn and I exchanged glances as the vocal display of self-pitty started to punctuate itself with near-tears voice cracks, and the stomping of feet on the floorboards of the van as a means of venting his childish frustrations at what wasn't his fault. It was my first candid look at severe furry disfunctionality, and like a green soldier seeing his first battle, I slowly grew numb to whatever scraps of empathy I may have had.
In phone conversations after the trip, Flynn and I came to the conclusion that Hirtes was mentally handicapped in some fashion and couldn't hold down a job with the stress management skills of a three year old that he exhibited in Las Vegas. I didn't know that qualified someone for some sort of welfare, or perhaps his official disability is imbellished in some manner. One may never know. I stopped talking to Hirtes after I moved on to other, more lucrative (a relative term in comics) publications. I realized he just wanted someone there to contribute work, even as the internet culture slowly dried up his copy machine booklet market, and someone to call when he needed his hand held through whatever life hardship he wanted to whine through for the evening. No harsh words were exchanged, or fights were had... we just... stopped speaking. Since that time, whenever his name has creeped into conversations with others, there's always someone with a Hirtes story to share. Wolf had recalled the instances Hirtes would phone his house at times, sobbing over not receiving enough submissions to put out a new 'zine, or how horrible his life was. Eric Schwartz had an instance where Hirtes had traced either his or Michael Higgs' line art and tried to pass it off as something original. They expressed their displeasure over the telephone and that was the end of any publishing relationship they may have had.
I think the last thing I received from Hirtes was an e-mail from years ago asking if I wanted to have anything to do with him. I didn't reply to it. I just let it fade. Sometimes we just move on like that. I have projects going on, a job to show up for, bills to pay, all the things that responsible people without mental disabilities have to do. Low and behold, years later, a blast from the past dredges itself up from the dark recesses of the internet. A whiney voice that once begged me for illustrations now aches to tell the world what a horrible right-wing kind of guy that I am.
Of all the things the internet has done for me, it's never helped me write a book report as promised.
So, a pedophile (at least virtual) sisterfucker who works at Kinkos doesn't want to have anything to do with a braggart-lunatic-idiot - oh, these tangled webs we weave...
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Rankin
Needs to get out more
Joined: 03 Jan 2004
Posts: 891
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Posted: 10/24/2004 9:53:55 PM
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Here's a glorious retort, of course....
There are a few other familiar embittered furry names in the CYD forums. They might be imposters but if so, they seem to know the right names to choose.
CYD is an extension of SomethingAwful.com, basically an army of provocoteurs. Someone who knows the right things to say and the right people to approach will fit in perfectly with these people. As such, I can understand it being a magnet to the socially maladjusted types who are still struggling for a group to validate and accept them. It doesn't surprise me at all that they'd just as soon destroy as create if it fills their needs.
No, Jim. We hate you, and you're a cocksucker dipshit fatass. This is an official stance, k?
Now go blow your fucking brains out. I'm sure 'Fisk' has a gun you may borrow. |
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Computolio
Vociferator
Joined: 01 Jun 2003
Posts: 462
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Posted: 10/25/2004 2:20:27 AM
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You know, whenever I think that this site was a bad idea, that it's lost all it's charm and nothing really all that interesting is spewing from the furries anymore, something like this happens.
And thank god for that. |
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Mitch
Vociferator
Joined: 01 Jun 2003
Posts: 362
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Posted: 10/25/2004 12:18:34 PM
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Here's a glorious retort, of course....
There are a few other familiar embittered furry names in the CYD forums. They might be imposters but if so, they seem to know the right names to choose.
He doesn't know the half of it - most of the people whose names would be instantly recognizable are posting under aliases, so the familiar names he sees are only the tip of the iceberg.
CYD is an extension of SomethingAwful.com, basically an army of provocoteurs.
Now that makes a change from being accused of being pawns of the Portal of Evil. I suppose SA has now taken over from PoE as FURRY PUBLIC ENEMA #1.
No, Jim. We hate you, and you're a cocksucker dipshit fatass. This is an official stance, k?
Hold on there, Rankin. That may be your official stance, but personally I have never heard of "McGroarty" and have no idea who he is. Though it sounds as though you do - care to share? |
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Anonymous
Vociferator
Joined: 01 Jun 2003
Posts: 766
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Posted: 10/25/2004 1:07:58 PM
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Wonderfully entertaining read, I just hope that some day Naylor might win the internet.
I also don't know who 'mcgroaty' is; does he go by a more noticable name or do you have links to any gems of ignorance? |
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Rankin
Needs to get out more
Joined: 03 Jan 2004
Posts: 891
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Posted: 10/25/2004 5:14:27 PM
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No, Jim. We hate you, and you're a cocksucker dipshit fatass. This is an official stance, k?
Hold on there, Rankin. That may be your official stance, but personally I have never heard of "McGroarty" and have no idea who he is. Though it sounds as though you do - care to share?
We of royalty refer to ourselves in the third person. You, kind sir, should know that.
All I know of mcgroaty is that if there's furry drama involved, it's holding a cock of one side, or the other... if it's on lj, mcgroaty's there. Being this 'deep' into the drama gives me enough of a reason to dispise it. |
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Shmeckopolis
Venter
Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 234
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Posted: 10/25/2004 5:40:40 PM
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It just never gets old....!
Ever! |
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ZenZhu
Needs to get out more
Joined: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 897
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Posted: 10/25/2004 6:56:57 PM
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Y'know, I used to really dislike furries (I'm loathe to say I hate anything, except in the lighter uses of the word.. like "I hate broccoli.").... and I dare say that, having been one of them, it would be a correct assessment to say that at some point in my familiarity with them, my dislike of them was an expression of the dislike I had for my own traits similar to theirs.
Before my severance, my growing dislike of furries grew out of what they had done to a once relatively innocent hobby with its share of underground elements. I mean, sure, people looked at me a little funny if I drew a very humanized fox morph in a bikini.. just because such a high level of anthropomorphism is foreign to most people that are used to the more humanoid morphs being like anime catgirls, and the less humanoid ones being still relatively amorphously toony, like Lola Bunny. When you start putting Lola Bunny's head on Jessica Rabbit's body, however... yes... people will look at you funny. Still, it was harmless enough, because, save for maybe those private recesses of one's sketchbook... the really funky stuff wasn't part of the mainstream.
As comics like Wild Kingdom and Genus began to crop up, furry started taking on a bit more of an adult flare. Still, these were largely considered offshoots of the fandom.. and to non-furries, they were underground comics... wannabe versions of Fritz the Cat or even Omaha. As the 'net cropped up, the freak factor began to grow. Now we could not only start to see a growing number of fetishes and personal issues conveyed through artwork, but we could get first-hand... damn-near live reports of the kinds of things going on at cons. Roleplaying on MUCKS went from the casual conversation and occasionally wacky hijinks on FluffMUCK and FurryMUCK's West Corner of the Park to leather and latex-clad visual ass-spankings in The Purple Nurple and Tapestries. The pervs weren't just gaining a place to requent.. they were becoming a force to be reckoned with in the fandom. Soon, any attempt to suggest that ones private affairs and interests be kept just that... private... was shot down with accusations of intolerance and nazism. The furverts not only found a place to cater to their behaviors outside of their respective closets... but a place where they could justify them to each other and themselves.
So, for folks like me... who were familiar with furries when they were simply innocent-enough curiosities in Amazing Heroes... characterized by Albedo and Captain Jack... to see furries become characterized by Genus, Wild Kingdom, and Foxwolfie Galen... developing a dislike of those factions responsible is unsurprising.
Faced with such a growing reputation, and an opposition to doing anything about it... it's only natural some folks would take to guerilla tactics such as trolling, pointing the media in the right direction, and ratting furry behaviors out to the hotels hosting cons. After all, direct opposition couldn't produce results.. and frustrated normal furry fans felt something had to be done.
I'm sure at some point, my motives for rallying against them in the interest of "preserving" furrydom's name changed to a volatile act of separation from that which had filled up much of my hobby time for a few years. I think such behavior is fairly typical when you're trying to break away from something that you know is not good... and that you're mostly persisting with out of habit rather than the personal enjoyment you use to derive out of it. Not only had furrydom lost me due to its own behavior, but my interest in pursuing life away from the computer and the drafting board grew. Some people, like myself on occasion, have to go to one extreme then the other in order to find a happy middle ground. So, I'll grant them that, at some point in my separation, my dislike was internal frustration directed outwards.
Once I grew beyond that, however, my dislike of furries changed to.. hmm... really more of an apathy to them. This has, admittely, been fairly recent. These days, I really don't care if they want to wallow in their freakishness and then whine about why people view them as such freaks. If they're having fun, and not hurting anyone... meh... who am I to say what is proper and what isn't. Still... there's the "train wreck" factor. I no longer hate furries.. or even dislike them. I do harbor something of a grudge in that I cannot see something like the Realm of the Claw figures and not picture some bloated, pasty, beardy bovine squealing and wriggling with delight as he snaps of two of each of them.. finally finding an expression of his soul in plastic. Admittedly, I yearn for a more innocent time in my life when I simply liked anthros, and had now clue as to how people would come to fixate on Brother Bear as model for how fat gay guys should band together in some sort of hippie commune in Yellowstone or something. But, I can't reclaim the past, and I can't erase my memories and experiences just shy of a process involving either a sledgehammer or a bus.
So, the only real alternative is to simply move on. Still, there is the lingering desire to figure out how all of this happened.... to unravel the mystery if exactly how we got to a point where people can draw pictures of their own ink-and-paint reflections of themselves being dissolved inside the bowels of a man-eating plant while their penis detaches itself and flies away, and yet we're the ones they talk of like this...
As such, I can understand it being a magnet to the socially maladjusted types who are still struggling for a group to validate and accept them. It doesn't surprise me at all that they'd just as soon destroy as create if it fills their needs.
Here you have people that not only simply like cartoon animals.. but seek to be them... some of which have such a disgust for their true selves (yeah, I'm talking about being hy00man) that they go and throw themselves off of a building (Star's Pyre) or, at the very least concoct these fanciful tales of misplaced souls and crossed dimensions... and then convince themselves they're the honest truth. It's hard to shake the allure.. no matter how much you dislike or how indifferent you are to furries... of being witness to a social phenomenon, no matter how limited, where dysphoria and self-loathing are the order of the day, and yet, those who dare to discuss it as if it's not normal are the ones considered to be "maladjusted."
On an interesting note, Dr. Phil apparently had the tiger fellow on this past week for an episode dedicated to obsessive-compulsive behavior. |
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Computolio
Vociferator
Joined: 01 Jun 2003
Posts: 462
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Posted: 10/25/2004 11:50:49 PM
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GOOD GOD DUDE
WE KNOW |
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Paul
Venter
Joined: 01 Feb 2004
Posts: 297
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Posted: 10/26/2004 4:39:16 PM
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So, for folks like me... who were familiar with furries when they were simply innocent-enough curiosities in Amazing Heroes... characterized by Albedo and Captain Jack... to see furries become characterized by Genus, Wild Kingdom, and Foxwolfie Galen... developing a dislike of those factions responsible is unsurprising.
My experience pretty much...
You know, despite all the analysis of furries and furry history already gone down here, I don't think it hurts with more... and IMHO, what ZenZhu wrote above qualifies straight for CYDs article section. |
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Shmeckopolis
Venter
Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 234
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Posted: 10/27/2004 1:11:37 PM
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Half of what ZenZhu posts qualifies straight for CYDs article section.
Not that that's a bad thing... |
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ZenZhu
Needs to get out more
Joined: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 897
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Posted: 10/27/2004 2:02:59 PM
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Well, that's just my experience, rather than any kind of history, and nothing that hasn't been detailed before, as Computolio so subtly pointed out. |
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Michael Hirtes
Vociferator
Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 660
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Posted: 11/17/2004 7:29:13 PM
Post subject: Re: Naylor vs Hirtes - a battle to the DEAF! |
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So, a pedophile (at least virtual) sisterfucker who works at Kinkos doesn't want to have anything to do with a braggart-lunatic-idiot - oh, these tangled webs we weave...
I just came across this thread (I usually just browse the Chit Chat section). I pretty much said what I said about the subject over there. If Jay thinks I'm a bombastic loon, oh well. Gotta remember what kind of standards a guy like Jay uses to make these labels of his. It's very easy to not be able to live up to them.
And, Jay seems to have violated the cardinal rule: What goes on in Vegas, stays in Vegas. If only it were still an option to "make a few calls and Badda Bing!, have dis here chatterbox problem dealt wit, poimenently" :wink: |
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MagKnightX
Venter
Joined: 04 Dec 2003
Posts: 286
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Posted: 11/18/2004 12:27:51 AM
Post subject: Re: Naylor vs Hirtes - a battle to the DEAF! |
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And, Jay seems to have violated the cardinal rule: What goes on in Vegas, stays in Vegas. If only it were still an option to "make a few calls and Badda Bing!, have dis here chatterbox problem dealt wit, poimenently" :wink:
It's still an option, it just takes a crapload more money, and the hirer is more likely to be implicated. But that still would be nice... if even just Naylor were out of the game...
C'mon, mike, take one for the team. |
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Jerry Collins
Venter
Joined: 16 Jul 2003
Posts: 210
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Posted: 11/18/2004 5:37:32 PM
Post subject: Nahhh,AH!AH! |
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So,why waste money on a hitman?I know a few folks in th'" wiz biz" who'd be glad to curse that shnook Naylor...oh....wait a minute...that would be a waste of magic!Jay is already cursed....WITH BEING JAY NAYLOR!!!!and as to those lame-o "Jay walkers"(like hydrophobia 000)CUT IT OUT!!Jay Leno and the N.B.C. folks had that title long before those ditto-head wash-outs!Grow up!What I write here is basicly good -natured smart-assary,El Gisto,Jokey -HA-HA!...Man !I can't beleive that one dope who actually thought I thought I was a real wizard....(man that was convouluted!)Come on folks,If I was a real wizard...DO YOU THINK I WOULD WASTE MY TIME HERE????Sweet "BoB"forbid.Oh well, youd think after that crap with Newt that I'd be used to pscyo-jugend rabid rightards...esh!Still..Ain't none of us perfect...but,wow!...Jay makes an art of it!Jah Bless ya younguns!This is the evil,nasty ol'fart sayin'"See ya' next time! |
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ZenZhu
Needs to get out more
Joined: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 897
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Posted: 11/18/2004 5:51:37 PM
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Been hitting the Old Kentucky egg nog early, have we? :) |
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Jerry Collins
Venter
Joined: 16 Jul 2003
Posts: 210
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Posted: 11/18/2004 7:54:58 PM
Post subject: Jerry Colona's ghost |
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:mrgreen: MMMMMMMMmmmmm,....could be :lol: |
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The New Meat
Vociferator
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
Posts: 466
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Posted: 11/18/2004 8:38:33 PM
Post subject: Re: Nahhh,AH!AH! |
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So,why waste money on a hitman?I know a few folks in th'" wiz biz" who'd be glad to curse that shnook Naylor...oh....wait a minute...that would be a waste of magic!Jay is already cursed....WITH BEING JAY NAYLOR!!!!and as to those lame-o "Jay walkers"(like hydrophobia 000)CUT IT OUT!!Jay Leno and the N.B.C. folks had that title long before those ditto-head wash-outs!Grow up!What I write here is basicly good -natured smart-assary,El Gisto,Jokey -HA-HA!...Man !I can't beleive that one dope who actually thought I thought I was a real wizard....(man that was convouluted!)Come on folks,If I was a real wizard...DO YOU THINK I WOULD WASTE MY TIME HERE????Sweet "BoB"forbid.Oh well, youd think after that crap with Newt that I'd be used to pscyo-jugend rabid rightards...esh!Still..Ain't none of us perfect...but,wow!...Jay makes an art of it!Jah Bless ya younguns!This is the evil,nasty ol'fart sayin'"See ya' next time!
Jerry, I'm going to have to put my foot down and insist that you start making sense. |
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Skunkfunker
Qualificator
Joined: 18 Mar 2004
Posts: 27
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Posted: 11/18/2004 9:23:04 PM
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Jerry, I'd like you to start putting a space after every comma, full stop, exclamation mark, etc. etc. |
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ZenZhu
Needs to get out more
Joined: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 897
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Posted: 11/18/2004 9:56:28 PM
Post subject: Re: Jerry Colona's ghost |
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:mrgreen: MMMMMMMMmmmmm,....could be :lol:
I tried it once..... once. I think it was vaguely remniscient of egg nog and turpentine. I think it was only egg nog in the sense that enough egg nog had been added to the booze to make it a vaguely milky color. Of course, I'm not much for any kind of booze, let alone the hard stuff. |
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Michael Hirtes
Vociferator
Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 660
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Posted: 11/19/2004 1:57:56 AM
Post subject: Re: Jerry Colona's ghost |
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:mrgreen: MMMMMMMMmmmmm,....could be :lol:
I tried it once..... once. I think it was vaguely remniscient of egg nog and turpentine. I think it was only egg nog in the sense that enough egg nog had been added to the booze to make it a vaguely milky color. Of course, I'm not much for any kind of booze, let alone the hard stuff.
Sounds like the year-round version of egg nog........Irish Cream. |
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Jerry Collins
Venter
Joined: 16 Jul 2003
Posts: 210
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Posted: 11/24/2004 5:12:07 PM
Post subject: Nope! |
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1 Naylor is still an evil idiot.2Skunk F-er,I'd like to own a"coffe shop" in Amsterdam,but we all can't have everything we want.3 I REFUSE TO MAKEANY LOGICAL ACTION or "SENSE"...so deal with it |
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bobby
Coadjutor
Joined: 27 Oct 2003
Posts: 88
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Posted: 11/25/2004 10:09:22 AM
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Man I remember the good old days when we used to sit around and talk about the good old days when Fritz the Cat was hardcore. |
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Rankin
Needs to get out more
Joined: 03 Jan 2004
Posts: 891
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Posted: 11/25/2004 7:01:01 PM
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Man I remember the good old days when we used to sit around and talk about the good old days when Fritz the Cat was hardcore.
..then wolf down 12 large pizzas, am I rite?
'sup booby? |
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Michael Hirtes
Vociferator
Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 660
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Posted: 11/27/2004 6:25:36 AM
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..then wolf down 12 large pizzas, am I rite??
Noe. Yoo ar rong. |
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Jerry Collins
Venter
Joined: 16 Jul 2003
Posts: 210
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Posted: 12/1/2004 7:19:58 PM
Post subject: wisdom |
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as the greath Doughnut King Homer Simpson said:MMMMMMM,Pizzaaa! |
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Jerry Collins
Venter
Joined: 16 Jul 2003
Posts: 210
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Posted: 12/1/2004 7:22:00 PM
Post subject: p.s. |
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P.S. Jay Naylor is Still an Evil Idiot! |
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bobby
Coadjutor
Joined: 27 Oct 2003
Posts: 88
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Posted: 12/2/2004 8:57:46 AM
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Man I remember the good old days when we used to sit around and talk about the good old days when Fritz the Cat was hardcore.
..then wolf down 12 large pizzas, am I rite?
'sup booby?
I lost 50 pounds since anthrocon and went below 300, I am now merely "fat" rather than "whale-like". ^_^ |
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Rankin
Needs to get out more
Joined: 03 Jan 2004
Posts: 891
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Posted: 12/3/2004 12:39:17 AM
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I lost 50 pounds since anthrocon and went below 300, I am now merely "fat" rather than "whale-like". ^_^
wao. Congrats! |
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Jerry Collins
Venter
Joined: 16 Jul 2003
Posts: 210
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Posted: 12/3/2004 5:33:55 PM
Post subject: Naylor Jugend |
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I still find it funny as Hell that:(1 )A hack cartoonist incestuous racist is being defended by some suburban Cally-phonian,and that said incestuous rascist hack would no doubt pack said phurri- foole off to the camps should he (Jah forbid)gain any power in" Der partei"....(2)that an obvious pair of "plants"from A.f.f. try to sow discord among our membership( give it up Elastic Leotard and Rankin,ya' ain't foolin' NOBODY!)(3) that certain people get upset about Jim Groat being critisized for bailing on his job,(thus endangering his family's future)I MUST LAUGH!!!ha..ha.. :roll: I know I'm messed up,what's their excuse...oh ...yeaaah,THEY'RE PHURRIES!!!! :mrgreen: |
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Rankin
Needs to get out more
Joined: 03 Jan 2004
Posts: 891
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Posted: 12/4/2004 3:21:26 AM
Post subject: Re: Naylor Jugend |
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(2)that an obvious pair of "plants"from A.f.f. try to sow discord among our membership( give it up Elastic Leotard and Rankin,ya' ain't foolin' NOBODY!)
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