Crush...Yiff...Destroy!

Wayd Wolf · Vociferator Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 563

A small note of thanks to the Brits in the audience for producing comedy worth watching without giant internationally known names and idiot gimmicks. Blows the remake of Dawn of the Dead away completely. Absolutely worth purchasing.

creature · Venter Joined: 06 Nov 2003 Posts: 221

Aye. That and 28 Days Later are two damn good zombie movies.

mouse · Needs to get out more Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 817

I been meaning to go see this cuz it looks funny as hell

As opposed to going to see "The Grudge" saturday night which totally sucked. They tried making an americanized japanese horror movie (not that I have that much knowledge of japanese horror to begin with) that wound up being repetitive as fuck. I started needing a cigarette and I looked it was only 45 minutes into the movie. Even worse was that I could appreciate what they tried to do, but somewhere they fucked up big time and the audience was laughing at it and commenting on how terrible it was. Not that anyone was that incorrect in that assesment.

ZenZhu · Needs to get out more Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 897

Actually, the director of the Ju-On movies directed this one as well. Sam Raimi just produced it... kind of like how Tarantino put his name all over Hero, even though he really just imported it.

I think it's an Americanization of the third one. The movies pretty much follow the same lines in each one... the house being the recurring villain almost like Freddy or Jason. From what I understand, even with four movies in the series, little is ever explained, like why the lady makes that croaking noise. Why the kid makes cat noises is pretty evident, though I don't think it's ever actually spelled out.

I didn't think it sucked, but I certainly don't see what the hype is. It was the same with The Ring. Both were lauded as the "scariest movie of ____"... the year.. all time.. whatever. Japanese horror is good at being suspenseful and making you think, "Dude, did I just see what I think I saw? That's twisted!" but not really spray-your-drink-on-the-guy-in-front-of-you scary. I think there was really only one shock in the movie that made me jump. It's too bad American audiences have such an opposition to reading their movies... so that these weak adaptations have to be done, instead of just releasing Ringu and Ju-On: The Grudge with subtitles.

At least the overlapping flashbacks didn't make things as convoluted as Memento's reverse-timeline storytelling.

Skunkfunker · Qualificator Joined: 18 Mar 2004 Posts: 27

If you liked Shaun... then you may want to look for the TV series Spaced, which shares many of the same cast, and was pretty much where they started.

Intelligent and witty 20-late Brit Slacker alterna-sup-pop-geek-culture comedy. Simon Pegg is a known comics fan, and plays aspiring comic artist Tim Bisley in the series.

Available on Region 2 DVD, from the UK.

Wayd Wolf · Vociferator Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 563

To me, the thing about British comedy is there's still an element of what can only be called cheekiness to it. You still think, "that's very damn funny. I can't believe he said that." way more often than you can with American comedy. It's as if we've lost sight of the old fashioned premise-setup-pumchline formula combined with a healthy dose of self-control. George Carlin just comes out and goes straight for the kill and sounds more angry than he actually is trying to. Eddie Izzard gives you the impression that he's pausing for a moment to see if you're following along and then forging ahead.

In America, the use of the dead as service personnel would have been heavy-handed and with a strong leftist anti-corporate preachiness. In Shaun, it was give the gag to the audience and leave it at that. No beat you over the head with the premise until you want to strangle the writers.

Weird thing is, Canadian comedy groups tend to work somewhere between there and Saturday Night Live. But, there's no real balance between throw out the gag and keep moving on and the go for the overkill methods. The first keeps on working, and the second people grow pretty jaded about pretty quick.

May what's become of the American comedy scene not happen over there.

Also, I've noted that Americans more and more are acting like characters on TV, reeling off sarcastic lines as if they were on a sitcom, and yet the more they do it, the less well the crap works on TV, and the more extreme it has to get... I half expect the get assaulted or screamed at by most people I come across as they hamfistedly attempt to be what TV here says should be funny. I hope that's not happening there.

Kadius · Vociferator Joined: 10 Feb 2004 Posts: 370

I pretty much agree with Wayd.

Upright Citizens Brigade is genius. Though the thing is, conservative people are too shocked to enjoy it. I was at a family gathering of about 12 or so people. And only me and my uncle* were laughing. The others were too shocked by what was going on. If memory serves me, the skit was about pilots in a simulator that was running a simulation of them crashing. And several methods that they were trying to use to help them cope with the crash. Such as 'turning to their higher power' for comfort.

I think the shining moment of the entire thing was when one of them turned out to be a Satanist. Ritualistic dagger, pentagram carved in his stomach and all.

The other skit that stuck out was a gym teacher that was trying to act like he was Jesus. Someone had stolen something from one of the other teachers in the school and he said "I'm going to walk on glass barefoot until someone confesses, just like Jesus would!" They tossed bottles, breaking them before his feet. He was also maced, tazered and punched. The room was dead silent, except for me and my uncle.

And I lol'd.

I guess it's an aquired thing.

MagKnightX · Venter Joined: 04 Dec 2003 Posts: 286

There's a reason why Monty Python is considered, still, to be one of the most hilarious things ever produced. I'd say it's exactly that "cheekiness" that Wayd was talking about.

I mean, what else can you call two uniformed, otherwise respectable gentlemen, one dancing around and slapping the other with fish?

And I also agree about the adoption of sarcasm being bad for humor. It seems like every time ANYBODY tells a joke anymore, all they get is a sarcastic "ha. ha. ha" and a "shut the fuck up." Americans scarcely know how to laugh anymore, unless it's at Bush dressed as a cowboy and Kerry as a hot-dog, and singing.

mouse · Needs to get out more Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 817

I pretty much agree with Wayd.

Upright Citizens Brigade is genius.

Oh hell yeah it is. I probably spent a couple years with friends just quoting that show back and forth at each other. Im still waiting for the 2nd and 3rd seasons to come out on DVD.

I think before UCB, the only other memorable sketch comedy show I really liked was The State on MTV. Which was either so stupid it wasnt funny, or was so stupid it was hilarious. Kids in the Hall is another good one that I never had a chance to see until recently (as in a few years ago) with it being on comedy central once in a while. You'd think I would have seen it a while back since I get canadian tv..

Though the thing is, conservative people are too shocked to enjoy it.

The room was dead silent, except for me and my uncle.

And I lol'd.

I guess it's an aquired thing.

I dunno, some of those sketches are just too damn good. I was in high school when that show was on inititally and I rarely laugh as hard as I did at the "Ass Pennies" sketch the first time I seen it. And it seemed anyone that had seen it thought it was great also.

If nothing else, the UCB taught me that I can anything I want - as long as its thru the hole in the sheet .. :lol:

ZenZhu · Needs to get out more Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 897

To me, the thing about British comedy is there's still an element of what can only be called cheekiness to it. You still think, "that's very damn funny. I can't believe he said that." way more often than you can with American comedy. It's as if we've lost sight of the old fashioned premise-setup-pumchline formula combined with a healthy dose of self-control. George Carlin just comes out and goes straight for the kill and sounds more angry than he actually is trying to. Eddie Izzard gives you the impression that he's pausing for a moment to see if you're following along and then forging ahead.

-----

Also, I've noted that Americans more and more are acting like characters on TV, reeling off sarcastic lines as if they were on a sitcom, and yet the more they do it, the less well the crap works on TV, and the more extreme it has to get... I half expect the get assaulted or screamed at by most people I come across as they hamfistedly attempt to be what TV here says should be funny. I hope that's not happening there.

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the British shows. I did watch Are You Being Served for a good while during graduate school. I could never really get into the whole Monty Python-style stuff such as the aforementioned businessmen slapping each other with fish. Not to say I consider it dumb... it's just that I could never get into that kind of over-the-top silliness.

Of course, I'm even less a fan of American comedy, either. I haven't watched a prime-time sitcom since.. hmm... probably the early seasons of Frasier. The only thing I watch regularly that counts as anything close to a sitcom is M*A*S*H reruns. As you said, it's largely based on sarcastic jokes, assaults of cut-downs, and one-upsmanship. The generic American formula for comedy has become some dorky fat guy who has somehow managed to marry a reasonably attractive woman and fathered somewhere between 2.5 and 6 children.. at least one of whom is always "wise beyond their years" and delivers all of the "out of the mouths of babes" punchlines. Pretty much every sitcom I've seen commercials for now consists of following the bumbling/zany antics of said fat father/husband as he tries make his way through about 30 minutes of being a total failure as a human being, yet deliver some kind of life-affirming realization at the end of the show.

A lot of this formula I think owes to the age of political correctness. You can't make fun of women or dare to show them falling victim to some of the stereotypical female shortcomings lest some women's organization start breathing down your neck. Take a recent Vehix.com commercial where a woman is pushing a car's safety ratings, gas mileage, child seat-friendly features, and the like... while all her husband can say is, "But look at how cool this one is!" Conversely, you'll never see a similar commercial these days where the man would be tauting the safety features and economical value of a car, while the woman was saying, "But look at how cute this one is." See.. that would be stereotyping.. and that would be bad. Unless it's stereotyping a man... because everyone knows men live up to their stereotypes. So that's not bad.

Likewise, big, dumb, balding white guys are about the only ethnic group you can make fun of now. Now, before you start wondering if my white linens double as my Friday-night goin' out clothes.. let me stress that I'm not suggesting an attempt to return to racial slurs. I'm not suggesting American comedy needs more blackface and softshoe while eating fried chicken and watermelon, or more bucked teeth and "Oh, me so sorreh. I make it up to you.. give you flee flied lice and eggrorr." What I'm saying is that it seems in American comedy you can no longer show anyone execpt the fat dumb white guy doing anything dumb. Team a white guy up with a Hispanic friend, an Asian friend, and a Jewish friend.. and you still only have one character that you can show getting into trouble as a result of his own moronic behavior, while Jesus, Yim Sao, and Levine all tell him how they told him his zany notion was a bad idea.

The flip side to this is you can show some non-W.A.S.P. character suffering the reprocussions of his own dumb behavior if the show happens to be by a certain group and intended for the same group. You can do a show about black guys doing stupid stuff if you happen to be any of the Wayans brothers. You can show a Hispanic father being dumbfounded in the face of modern Hispanic pop culture if everyone on the show is Hispanic. But, show Mark Curry falling off a ladder while John Goodman tells him "I told you so." for trying to fix the TV dish in an ice storm, and you'll have the NAACP on your ass so fast it'll make your head spin.

I guess the paradox is, despite it being comedy, everyone is liable to take it so seriously.

I think another reason for the "tried and true" (read: tired and overused) formula is that most Americans don't want to have to think about their comedy. Bodily humor, sarcastic jokes, and pratfalls appeal to a baser sense of humor that can be tickled when you're dozing in your recliner after having a few too many pigs in a blanket at dinner. With a premise-setup-punchline gag... you have to follow the scenario to get the punchline. You have to actively engage some part of your brain in the television-viewing process. If you're dozing or washing dishes or playing your GameBoy or something... you just might miss what the gag was about, because you stopped to listen to the TV halfway through the setup. George Carlin has to go for the jugular every 5 seconds because if he doesn't, you might change the channel because there's too much talk and not enough funny. With Eddie Izzard, you have to follow him along. Listening to one of his CDs in Borders... I recall references to history, astronomy, astrology, math, science, religion... stuff you have to actively engage your brain to relate to. Americans by and large don't seem like they're willing to do that. They want fart jokes and "yo' momma's so fat" one-liners that they can chuckle at without breaking stride in their lethargic stupor. They don't want to have to reach into the recesses of their brain's foot-locker to try and remember who Charlemagne was. They don't want puns and comedic repetition that requires you to recall what someone said five minutes ago, they want immediate comedic gratification.

Americans want their comedy like everything else... they want it right this second. Modern American sitcoms are basically the McDonald's of comedy. An antiquated formula served up fast and hot, though not necessarily fresh. They don't want the kind of comedy you could liken to a sit-down restaurant.... comedy where you have to follow it for a couple of minutes to reap the benefits of the delivery. Americans want easy laughs and lots of them... rather than a well-planned scenario that may not be funny this instant.. but with a punchline that makes the whole thing worth the wait. One of the lost arts I really enjoy, especially in stand-up routines, is comedic repetition.... where a joke.. quite often the closing joke of the routing... makes reference to something as far back as the beginning of the routine. Not many Americans these days could probably even recall that someone said 2 minutes ago, let alone 29 minutes ago at the opening of a 30-minute routine.

As for Americans trying to emulate these behaviors they see on TV...well.. TV tells them what to wear, eat and think.. why not how to act, too. :?

I mean, what else can you call two uniformed, otherwise respectable gentlemen, one dancing around and slapping the other with fish?

Like I said, the whole idea of something like that wouldn't get much more than a raised eyebrow from me. However, I can appreciate that such a scene would rely on something American comedy has lost.... the art of paradoxes.... that something is funny not because it is simply visually silly, but that one element is so out of place with the rest of the scene. I think the trick, however, is to not belabor the paradox. The Queen Mother dancing the Charleston across the background of a scene in a few seconds is often funnier than 2 minutes focusing on her breakdancing or something.... almost using a horror tactic of "did I just see what I think I saw?"

I guess that's part of the "cheekiness." Not just the factor of the absurd served up in small, eloquent portions, but the light-heartedness. Sarcastic humor relies on the deliverer taking something.. usually themselves.. far too seriously. That's why they're being sarcastic.. because they're actually unable to laugh at the situation or themselves. On the other hand, none of the participants in cheeky humor are usually taking themselves serioiusly... even if they're acting like they are.

I haven't seen Shaun of the Dead.. but from what's been described here, maybe its success lies partly in that there are a few delivery tactics that both horror and comedy share in getting themselves across to audiences.

On a somewhat related note, I rented Shaolin Soccer the other night. While it has its share of somewhat dorky humor typical of Chinese cinema, it has some very split-second, "did I just see what I thought I saw" jokes. The juxtaposition of kung fu and soccer is really amusing to see as well, and some of the special effects, like the ground rippling from shockwaves, air spirals on soccer balls, bullet-time shots and such are actually very good. The computer effects used blend in pretty well... only standing out because you know they had to use a computer to get this effect or that effect, rather than looking totally different from the rest of the scene. I would defintely recommend watching it subtitled rather than dubbed, though.

Quantum Coyote · Prattler Joined: 12 May 2004 Posts: 143

Thats pretty accurate about Americans if you feel like reducing 293,027,571 people to what a small number of media conglomerates THINK THEY WANT TO WATCH.
There are still intelligent Americans out there, its the same damn bell curve there always has been. I think it is a lot more about marketing and expenses than an indicator of humor appreciation in the American public. Why pay big actors and talented writers etc. and so on when you know you can always make a big scoop just pandering to the lowest common denominator.

ZenZhu · Needs to get out more Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 897

TV programming remains pretty much at the mercy of the populace. You can certainly polish a turd up enough to convince some folks it's good stuff, but marketing can only do so much. Producers aren't going to put out or perpetuate shows they know the public won't watch. The airwaves are flooded with garbage because that's what people have let the execs know they wanted through their viewership.

Of course, you do have to take into account the fact that many of the people that don't want little more than pablum flooding the airwaves aren't watching that much television. A lot of people tune in to one or two shows that they enjoy, and then may not even have the TV on the other times. So, American television programming is yet another case of one cross section of the population setting the trend for what the rest of the population must endure. And, unfortunately, the bell curve is not as static as you suggest.

That's usually the beauty of generalities. You can expound on such theories and, normally, people will know you're not talking about every last one of roughly 300 million Americans....... usually.

Quantum Coyote · Prattler Joined: 12 May 2004 Posts: 143

ZenZhu Wrote:

That's usually the beauty of generalities. You can expound on such theories and, normally, people will know you're not talking about every last one of roughly 300 million Americans....... usually.

Of course not, but where then do you draw the line? Also, you must remember that there may be some readers without the same cultural references and experiences in order to put what you are talking about into proper context.

ZenZhu · Needs to get out more Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 897

Well, if you want to spell out a bunch of addendums and appendices with graphs and charts for points of reference in the interest of sitting around and BSing about opinions as to why American television comedy sucks for the most part, be my guest.

Quantum Coyote · Prattler Joined: 12 May 2004 Posts: 143

ZenZhu Wrote:

Well, if you want to spell out a bunch of addendums and appendices with graphs and charts for points of reference in the interest of sitting around and BSing about opinions as to why American television comedy sucks for the most part, be my guest

Again you wish to divert rather than discuss. Fine, just remember you are the one who started 'BSing about opinions as to why American television comedy sucks for the most part'. So I don't see why I should be marginalized for responding. Actually I agree with the factual aspects of those posts, what bothered me rather was the tone.

ZenZhu · Needs to get out more Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 897

I will be mindful to keep my pinkies raised, my elbows off of the table, to always use a coaster, and use lots of happy, bubbly smileys whenever I go on a rant from now on.

Quantum Coyote · Prattler Joined: 12 May 2004 Posts: 143

I will be mindful to keep my pinkies raised, my elbows off of the table, to always use a coaster, and use lots of happy, bubbly smileys whenever I go on a rant from now on.

heheheh, touche

creature · Venter Joined: 06 Nov 2003 Posts: 221

Oh, and an 80s movie, Life Force. That was a kick ass movie. And it have Patrick Stewart in it. Can't go wrong with a bald Brit in a Brit movie.

Rankin · Needs to get out more Joined: 03 Jan 2004 Posts: 891

Oh, and an 80s movie, Life Force. That was a kick ass movie. And it have Patrick Stewart in it. Can't go wrong with a balled Brit in a Brit movie.

You forgot the most important part - that naked 80s-hot chick, doofus.

Shaun of the Dead was quite enjoyable, but sadly, most of my friends on this continent would not be pleased as it is rather slow, and more of a dry wit (backing over a zombie in the car), rather than bouncing jugs and beer bongs.

...I lied. Since I moved, I have roughly NO friends. So lonely. :cry:

Wayd Wolf · Vociferator Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 563

Oh, and an 80s movie, <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089489/">Life Force</a>. That was a kick ass movie. And it have Patrick Stewart in it. Can't go wrong with a balled Brit in a Brit movie.

I haven't seen too many movies with Brits getting balled but then I don't usually see a lot of English porn.

Oh, you meant bald...

Nevermind. :oops:

(The naked 80s chick referenced by Rankin was Mathilda May.)

creature · Venter Joined: 06 Nov 2003 Posts: 221

Oh, you meant bald...

Nevermind. :oops:

Yes, yes I did. Proves you should never type after 5 hours of sleep and 7 hours of work.

And yes, she was hot. Very hot. All space vampires from comet tails should be hot.

creature · Venter Joined: 06 Nov 2003 Posts: 221

...I lied. Since I moved, I have roughly NO friends. So lonely. :cry:

Wait... your winning personality doesn't make you likeable in an instant?

Rankin · Needs to get out more Joined: 03 Jan 2004 Posts: 891

Wait... your winning personality doesn't make you likeable in an instant?

I have a personality? That's a goddamned lie!

Teruth be told, since I started work, I've turned into a bit of a hermet. After my 10 hours of customer fellatio a day, I go home and curl up, eventually sobbing myself to sleep.

I think I'll make an actual effort to go out and do something for a change.

Donotsue · Vociferator Joined: 17 Jan 2004 Posts: 310

Kooon! Get back on Furrie-muck...You'll never be lonely again...
It just costs yer soul..
You're one of us.. one of us! =)

creature · Venter Joined: 06 Nov 2003 Posts: 221

I have a personality? That's a goddamned lie!

Teruth be told, since I started work, I've turned into a bit of a hermet. After my 10 hours of customer fellatio a day, I go home and curl up, eventually sobbing myself to sleep.

I think I'll make an actual effort to go out and do something for a change.

Allow me to introduce you to the wonderful world of heavy drinking. Me and Ron Bacardi, we are good friends. Ron is a mixer, real party animal him.

creature · Venter Joined: 06 Nov 2003 Posts: 221

Kooon! Get back on Furrie-muck...You'll never be lonely again...
It just costs yer soul..
You're one of us.. one of us! =)

One word for you: Tapestries.